Guild Wars 2

So dragons are supposed to be a something like an unstoppable force of nature and destroyers of all. I just find it odd that the dragons themselves are not such powerhouses in open combat.

Now I haven’t read destiny’s edge (or edge of destiny either) but I find it inconceiveable that a group of six (and a wolf) could almost take down a dragon and would likely have if not for some guy dying, yeah I’m blaming Snaff.

Furthermore one norn punched out Jormags tooth by himself which also shows that the dragons are not these invulnerable killing machines.

I know Zhaitan’s death should have been an obvious indication of this but the way he died makes me feel like he might just return (I also don’t really think something with powers of re-animation shouldn’t be able to re-animate its self but that’s just me).

Now the dragons are likely afraid of the other races—as shown by Zhaitan’s howls in fear (as noted by trending trahearne)—or Zhaitan was one of the weaker dragons, in combat anyways.

With this in mind if the races could somehow sneak a group of five to ten of the best fighters in Tyria (and some cannons for assisstance) they could probably assassinate most of the dragons.

Edit: something I forgot to mention although I was thinking of it at the time is that I have heard that the dragons may have been holding back or something along those lines, however I don’t think that it works in a dbz fashion where they simply hold back their full strength in combat until they feel like going all out.

eh, the dragons aren’t invulnerable but they aren’t that weak either. Zaitan really must be one of the weaker dragons in combat. The norn are a giant race with superhero strength. That norn that punched out jormags tooth was a hero among a giant race with superhero strength who was supplemented by a spirit of the wild. In fact, a few spirits had to sacrifice themselves so that jormag wouldn’t kill the entire race of giants with superhero strength. he was kiling them by the hundreds from how the norn tell it. and Owl atleast, is a confirmed spirit of the wild casualty. So Jormag, is at least a confirmed strong fighter on his own.

We also know from A-net that it’s been taking the dragons hunfreds of years to awaken. And the tengu confirm that they haven’t even begun their full attack yet so it may be that zaitan was still weak from centuries of slumber and a millenia of not having eaten a nutricious breakfast of ‘god’.

Lore Strength =/= Gameplay Strength

All of it gets dumbed down to fit in the constraints of the gameplay mechanics, and to make the fights actually fair. The Elder Gods could probably kill just about anyone, with a breathe in their general direction.

The same goes for the norn’s physical strength, and Destiny’s Edge’s collective strength as a group.

Destiny’s Edge almost brought down Kralkatorrik through a plan which didn’t involve facing him head-on. Kralkatorrik wasn’t really focusing on them initially either. If they’d just run out flailing wildly, they’d definitely not have survived.

While I’ve not yet completed the personal story (despite playing since headstart… shame on me), the theme I see going through Orr is one of weakening Zhaitan and taking back certain powerful artifacts to further aid this… Once again, not confronting him directly until he’s weak enough for us to consider it.

Erukk.1408:

Lore Strength =/= Gameplay Strength

All of it gets dumbed down to fit in the constraints of the gameplay mechanics, and to make the fights actually fair. The Elder Gods could probably kill just about anyone, with a breathe in their general direction.

The same goes for the norn’s physical strength, and Destiny’s Edge’s collective strength as a group.

Yes, in some ways it does.

It’s not as if the players were allowed to fight Zhaitan using their own weapons: first he was shot and suffered significant damage during a cutscene (not gameplay), next he was damaged by cannons shot by the players. No damage was done directly by the players and as such in this case it would be quite fair to consider what happened “lore strength”. Lore and gameplay intersect in a lot of ways and even though through text something can be made much more extravagent and intricate, story experienced through gameplay is still part of the story.

Certain scenarios are fair to not be considered the same I will not deny this but if somebody was looking simply for what happened to Zhaitan; he was shot down by the pact, and thats what occurs in the gameplay.

On a related note I have no idea how strong Destiny’s edge is supposed to be compared to player but I would assume about the same level.

Keep in mind that Zhaitan was also being starved around the time you bring him down and was a little unclear as to what was going on, as you had taken down his remote mouth and eyes in earlier missions.

WonderfulCT.6278:

Now I haven’t read destiny’s edge (or edge of destiny either) but I find it inconceiveable that a group of six (and a wolf) could almost take down a dragon and would likely have if not for some guy dying, yeah I’m blaming Snaff.

A group of six, a wolf, two golems, a dragon champion – all powered by crystallized dragon blood with a weapon made out of Kralkatorrik’s spine.

They were fully utilizing the concept of “they make the biggest threat to themselves” – which can again be seen through some NPCs in the Dragonbrand (“I believe when Kralkatorrik made the Dragonbrand, he gave us the weapons to kill him.” or something like that)

WonderfulCT.6278:

Furthermore one norn punched out Jormags tooth by himself which also shows that the dragons are not these invulnerable killing machines.

Aesgir had the aid of the Spirits of the Wild and an ancient jotun scroll of unknown properties. The jotun are known to have survived one Elder Dragon rise, and is implied to have survived others as well.

WonderfulCT.6278:

Zhaitan was one of the weaker dragons, in combat anyways.

I’m betting this. I mean, compare rotting flesh to fire and stone, thick ice, crystal, or water. Which is going to go down first?

WonderfulCT.6278:

something I forgot to mention although I was thinking of it at the time is that I have heard that the dragons may have been holding back or something along those lines, however I don’t think that it works in a dbz fashion where they simply hold back their full strength in combat until they feel like going all out.

There’s a tengu which mentions – prior to the attack on Claw Island mind you – that the Elder Dragons haven’t made their move yet. I suspect that they need at least 150 years to gather their strength before launching an assault. Besides the Dragonbrand, Kralkatorrik hasn’t been heard of – and other than pushing the krait out since they were living on top of him, and the karka, quaggan, and largos in turn, the DSD hasn’t been heard of either.

Zhaitan’s said to have gotten full of himself, because he awoke in a kingdom that was littered with corpses and full of magical items. Orr was basically Zhaitan’s heaven – all the resources he could need. And I suspect through this he got “ready” sooner than the others, or rather, he got ahead of himself and paid the price. Though he may not have had a choice, what with being so close to everyone else and was unable to force folks to flee in large numbers. And then when he was brought down, he’s been starving for some time (time unknown), so he was weakened by the time we got to him.

Jormag and Primordus have had plenty of time to gather magical artifacts (norn, quaggan, and kodan have lost such to Jormag, and Primordus is probably swimming in ancient asuran magitech), as well as build an army – and Jormag’s got worshipers to boot. I bet they’ll not only be the next ED, but far tougher than Zhaitan.

The major grip I have with Zaithan’s fight was that it felt stupid.
I mean, we got the dwavern tome and people were translating it… But we, the commander, never heard of it again.
We simply shot him down, I mean, what.
I can understand if we put some kitten on the laser or something, but we were never informed of anything of the sort.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forging_the_Pact

You did get information on the laser – it just wasn’t in the Personal storyline. Though in the second instance of The Source of Orr there’s constant dialogue about the Glory of Tyria from the NPCs.

You learn about the laser in Sparkfly Fen, Mount Maelstrom, and Crucible of Eternity story mode (well that’s more about Elder Dragon research). Zojja mentions how she modified the laser that’s on the Glory of Tyria during the dungeon – said modifications happened because of the Elder Dragon research notes she got from Kudu during CoE story. The cannons too.

So while there were quite a few things never mentioned again, everything we used against Zhaitan was mentioned before.

Oh, thanks, I’m glad I was wrong.
It’s been quite a while since I played the personal story so I don’t recall any mention of it and to be honest I didn’t know the name of the ship till now, so I can see why I would miss some details on what was going on before… But I still think it could’ve been better developed and shown to the player. I’d really like to now what that tome said…

EDIT: Now I checked the Source of Orr wikipage and read the dialog, I remember it. It’s more the info about the weaponry that I didn’t know.