Guild Wars 2

As a guild wars 2 player who didnt play guild wars 1 but i have seen stuff about dwarves and how they turned to stone i really want to see theme com back i mean i saw the one in my pesonal story but there mud be a ritual or a secret city wee they could come back i love those little fighters anyone have any ideas

ok i ment must not mud and were not wee sorry for the mistakes

ArenaNet turned them to stone as a means of writing them out of the lore. They might come back as NPCs, but they won’t be returning to flesh if that’s what you mean by a ritual. Now they’re just living stone eternally battling Primordus.

Konig why you do always jump on any dwarf threads so viciously.

Yes they have been turned to stone but that is by no means writing them out of the lore. They are ever present in the lore and a lot of the story lines, and it is by no means impossible or even improbale for them to make a return.

They were and still are a major race. They are simply not in the spotlight right now.

At any point in time the dev’s can bring them back and reintroduce them. One offhanded quote, from a lone dev, several years ago does not a dead dwarf make, and anything else is just suppoisition.

ArenaNet explicitly stated themselves that they wrote out the dwarves in the way they did so as to diverge away from standard fantasy tropes, and in turn give an explanation for why dwarves are not – and will not – be a playable race. I’m not “jumping on dwarf threads so viciously” so much as saying what ArenaNet has.

If they return – and I hold no doubt that they will if we go into the Depths of Tyria – they will only do so as NPCs, and not as a playable race. ArenaNet has said they hold no interest in doing so, for the same reasons why they wanted sylvari to be as plant-like as they could be, rather than just another “elf” race.

And I kind of doubt that you’d consider Jeff Grubb, one of the two continuity writers at ArenaNet, responding to a question specifically about the dwarves being playable as a “offhanded quote, from a lone dev.”

^ Exactly, Arenanet stated they wanted to write off dwarves, because they didn’t want to have the races other MMOs have.

However, I’m still curious about what will happen if Primordus is defeated and the dwarves will not have any goals for future. Will they vanish into the depths, or will the ritual break?

I haven’t played the full story of gw1 yet, so I can’t say much about it, however:

It was the offhand response from a Q/A session a few years ago if not more. Made by only one part of the writing team, at that the continuity team. The team of writers that exist to spin whatever new content and story the core team writes up into the overall lore background of the universe.

Saying that one comment from a few years back is a definitive stopping point for one of the major races of the Guildwars francise is hubaris at best.

The writers can and will do as the wish with the story as they continue to develop the game, its for that very reason why continuity writers exist.

It is so ever present in fantasy writing, and game writing that dragging old quotes from years back into thread after thread is next to meaningless.

The only people that know where the story is going, and what the games long term future will hold is the dev’s, writer’s and creative leads, and any serious writer will tell you that a story is never finished until it’s released, and sometimes not even then.

There is simply no need to go into every post done by people who liked dwarfs in GW1 or done by people who like dwarfs in general and state as if you were the grand poobah of the lore forums, that no its not gonna happen.

Maybe yes, maybe no, at this point no body knows, wait and see, and if you really want it to happen garner support and push for it.

Is all that is needed.

Curae.1837:

I haven’t played the full story of gw1 yet, so I can’t say much about it, however:

there is a dwarf npc

hide spoiler

There is a dwarf npc that you’ll encounter during the norn-storyline. If you choose to join the vigil you will have to protect him from the dredge at the base of the durmand priory.

He is Ogden Stonehealer, a hero from Gw1 and the only known dwarf to interact with the surface.

I don’t think Konig’s going on the attack in this thread, so much as relaying the info we have on the dwarves. So far we have Jeff Grubb stating that dwarves are intended to be written out. Which is considered word-of-God in every other situation and topic. Then Ogden saying he is the last of the dwarves in-game. So while A-net may change their mind at some later point, they have stated their intent about the dwarves and they have followed through in the lore. They may decide they want the GW franchise to start mirroring other fantasy universes but we do know that their last known goal was to move away from that by writing dwarves out and redesigning the sylvari to make sure that they weren’t elves. So far we do know A-nets intention and though it may possibly change it is more prudent to state what they have said on the topic than it is to dismiss it as possibly changeable. We might as well ask a-net to turn the sylvari into elves because it’s possible but I would expect the same prudent response of stating a-nets stance on the matter.

yes maybe we dont play as dwarves just bring theme out let theme go back to enslaving dredge and have theme have a great war once we defeat primordus they will have no reason to stay hidden and they can come back out

So you want everything from Prophecies to be undone?

The Stone Summit, those who had enslaved the dredge, had lost the war they caused. They were nearly annihilated and the remnants exiled to the Far Shiverpeaks where then their last religious leader, Duncan the Black, was killed off (along with even more of their forces). After which, what remained made peace with Deldrimor – a full out surrender.

Even if they make another appearance, you can bet your granny’s kitten that they won’t be going back to how they were in Prophecies. If you want to see that, it’s best to just buy GW1.

And of course, you’re presuming that they’ll even survive in large enough numbers. The civil war did a huge toll on the race, and then there’s the fact that they’ve been fighting Primordus and his minions for 200-250 years (all dwarves underwent the rite to turn to stone within 50 years, starting from 1078 AE) and they had a hard time against the Great Destroyer. Not only that, but their mentality as of turning to stone is pretty much just going leeroy jenkins on the forces – charging head first and fighting til the end.

Yeah I’m pretty sure this is one of those whole -once you’ve completed your mission and destroyed Primordius and his minions you will get your eternal reward in the afterlife-.
The dwarves will turn to dust or just stay as stone statues. There is a lot more impact in having a race completely vanish off the face of the earth than having them come back. The dwarven artefacts are already treated as curiosities by the Durmand Priory, they’re hardly going to bring back the dwarves and have them explain everything and completely undermine half the need for the DP.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

So you want everything from Prophecies to be undone?

The Stone Summit, those who had enslaved the dredge, had lost the war they caused. They were nearly annihilated and the remnants exiled to the Far Shiverpeaks where then their last religious leader, Duncan the Black, was killed off (along with even more of their forces). After which, what remained made peace with Deldrimor – a full out surrender.

Even if they make another appearance, you can bet your granny’s kitten that they won’t be going back to how they were in Prophecies. If you want to see that, it’s best to just buy GW1.

And of course, you’re presuming that they’ll even survive in large enough numbers. The civil war did a huge toll on the race, and then there’s the fact that they’ve been fighting Primordus and his minions for 200-250 years (all dwarves underwent the rite to turn to stone within 50 years, starting from 1078 AE) and they had a hard time against the Great Destroyer. Not only that, but their mentality as of turning to stone is pretty much just going leeroy jenkins on the forces – charging head first and fighting til the end.

So what your saying is Killroy Stonekin didn’t change at all mentally?

Even Kilroy had multiple goals. So he just became more singleminded, but kept his battletactics.

More or less, however given the fact that Kilroy seem to have a tomb, it seems that he died before becoming stone.

I love how everyone attibutes that fighting style to Kilroy Stonekin… Prince Rurik was sporting that style long before the dwarves :P Kilroy prolly just thought he looked cool doing it and emulated :P

Curae.1837:

I haven’t played the full story of gw1 yet, so I can’t say much about it, however:

there is a dwarf npc

hide spoiler

There is a dwarf npc that you’ll encounter during the norn-storyline. If you choose to join the vigil you will have to protect him from the dredge at the base of the durmand priory.

Morin The Befuddler.1804:

Curae.1837:

I haven’t played the full story of gw1 yet, so I can’t say much about it, however:

there is a dwarf npc

hide spoiler

There is a dwarf npc that you’ll encounter during the norn-storyline. If you choose to join the vigil you will have to protect him from the dredge at the base of the durmand priory.

Yes, a stone dwarf, just like the others. We do know dwarves exist. Any reason why you quoted this?

don’t think Konig’s going on the attack in this thread, so much as relaying the info we have on the dwarves. So far we have Jeff Grubb stating that dwarves are intended to be written out. Which is considered word-of-God in every other situation and topic. Then Ogden saying he is the last of the dwarves in-game. So while A-net may change their mind at some later point, they have stated their intent about the dwarves and they have followed through in the lore.

For the last time, this so called last dwarf outright tells the player the player the dwarves are still fighting Primordus. More up-to-date sources of lore (IE, Guild Wars 2 itself), makes consistent hints at the dwarves still being around and still being pretty important, stopping the majority of the Destroyers from bursting to the surface.

(Nor has anyone actually directly linked to this Q&A to confirm it, I remain skeptical that it was actually said in the context people are painting it as, when an extensive Google search does not show me the exact Q&A)

They may decide they want the GW franchise to start mirroring other fantasy universes but we do know that their last known goal was to move away from that by writing dwarves out and redesigning the sylvari to make sure that they weren’t elves.

Again, for the last time, ArenaNet have -already- made the dwarves different to other fantasy universes. Your logic. It is not working.

Even if they make another appearance, you can bet your granny’s kitten that they won’t be going back to how they were in Prophecies. If you want to see that, it’s best to just buy GW1.

facedesk

This isn’t getting into your head, is it?

People don’t want them back like they were in Prophecies. That would be going back to a Fantasy Stereotype (Even if they were still pretty different then if you actually give it more thought beyond “They’re dwarves” >_>). People want them how they are now, which is different to the norm.

What they are now does not preclude them from being a major or even playable race.

ThatOddOne.4387:

What they are now does not preclude them from being a major or even playable race.

Well it does a bit… Can you imagine trying to get cloth armour onto a stone dwarf. Oh the horror, oh the tearing
THE POINTY STONE BEARDS SHREDDING THEIR SHIRTS!
The fact that there are no female dwarves that have ever been seen? (Well Ogden says that they also have beards and we have seen them, but NOBODY wants to play a tiny bearded women in a fantasy game)
(Yes they explained that away with the lack of Charr females in GW1, but we had access to the whole of deldrimor and did not see any female dwarves..

I am sure people are smart enough to come up with ways around these so called problems. It’s so minor, on par with a design ‘problem’ rather than a lore problem that it’s not even worth discussing on a lore forum. (I’ve even suggested that playable dwarves would wear cloth, different armour etc over their stone bodies in an attempt to claw some individuality back, interesting story point, no?)

Of course the dwarves have/had females whilst they were still flesh, to suggest otherwise is silly.

Sometimes i wonder why do ppl keep reasoning how dwaves will be accessibly to players and how there are no problems.

Mostly they are right, aside from the fact it was stated that the ritual that turned them into stone happened TO WRITE THEM OFF.

But it HASN’T written them off, has it?

That’s my entire point. Stop ignoring it.

ArenaNet have backtracked significantly since that “quote” (still using the term lightly because I still haven’t seen it linked). This is undeniable fact as it is right there in the game.

Unless they are failing spectacularly at writing something off. If they want lessons on how to do such, they should look at Games Workshop. They wanted to write out Squats, they said they got eaten by Tyranids in a throw-away paragraph in an old edition rulebook and then NEVER MENTIONED THEM AGAIN IN OFFICAL SOURCES. Anywhere. That’s how you write something off. Blizzard wrote off Med’an by saying he’s gone to a different dimension and then never mentioned him again in any official sources. That’s another example of how you write something off.

As it happens, I don’t think ArenaNet is that stupid, no, they are backtracking on their (or should I say, one man’s) wish to ‘write’ the dwarves off.

…

Write off from the list of races for the players, not from the lore, I meant.

They will come back, as stone dwarves or normal.
I am really sure that this will happening.
Maybe not as NPC. That would.be relly awesome!

But they are written off as a playable race. That is the reason they were turned to stone. That is the reason their minds were changed. They have one goal and one goal only now as a race, that is to defeat dragons. Looking at Ogden, you can see the change in how he acts, and it had been stated in GW1 that the ritual couldn’t be reversed.

So how do you see them coming back as a playable race. I don’t see it. I can see them still in game as NPC running around killing destoryers but I never see them making it to a playable race, which was the point of writing them out the way they did. Not write them out and never be here, but written out so they would never be a playable race.

I’ve already provided my reasons for why the door is still open as a playable race elsewhere on these forums, but I’ll reply to this.

You’re correct that the ritual is irreverseble, but the thing to keep in mind is that we still don’t know what exactly the ritual did. Ogden only theorises on the spot when it happens to Jalis and co. He doesn’t have any evidence to back it up.

For all we know, they only get the overriding “Kill Dragons” directive when the dragons and their minions are nearby. Once they’re dead, or not in the general area, who knows how they’ll act? In fact, Ogden supports this – He’s fighting the dragons, yes (Along with every other major race in the world at the moment), but he’s not going crazy when dragon minions are nearby, and he’s not fighting in the traditional sense. This is proof that dwarves are still individuals despite the directive, and have some method of control and different ways they react. It’s also worth noting only Jalis and his vanguard charged into the Depths, the rest of the dwarven race when they turned to stone went to the exits to the surface and guarded them. This strongly indicates different ways dwarves have reacted to the change, they’re not all doing the same thing.

The ritual and its effects have not been fully developed and explored to make a concrete statement on it – Even that is a unique and interesting story point for a playable race. Wouldn’t you agree?

There are also many ways to complete this directive. Like Ogden, again. We also have evidence of a dwarf fighting Risen alongside humans, this is further proof they can act independantly.

They have one goal and one goal only now as a race, that is to defeat dragons

You mean… The entire point of GW2?

@ThatOddOne

Dwarves got the goal to defeat Primordus only. And they don’t care about anything else. You can’t tell them “okay, you will wait here, the order of whispers will lure the destroyers here, then we will ambush”.

They will just go “SMASH ’EM!!”, without having any plans and without caring anything about the safety of themselves and allies.

Not the classic playeable race mentality.

Gandarel. You’re not reading what I have wrote.

They haven’t got the goal to defeat Primordus only. They have the goal to defeat the Dragons. (Again, like every playable race currently)

Why was there a dwarf fighting Risen?

Why is Ogden researching ways to combat ALL the dragons?

The evidence is not supporting your point.

Primordus was the only dragon to have awakened at the time of the ritual, and the Destroyers were the only active minions. That’s why it appears like they are focused purely on Primordus. Because he was the first to appear. He is the first they reacted to.

Once Primordus is defeated, they are then free to turn on the other Dragons.

And if they appear in a Primordus focused expansion as a playable race, there you go, we defeat Primordus at the end of that expansion, and then the dwarves can move on to other Dragons.

They will just go “SMASH ’EM!!”, without having any plans and without caring anything about the safety of themselves and allies.

Evidence. Ogden has done nothing to indicate this attitude. Nothing ArenaNet has said has indicated this.

The only evidence is Jalis and his Vanguard from GW1. But again, that is one group of dwarves who are likely dead by now. As I stated, the rest of the dwarven race have been guarding the exits to the surface ever since they turned to stone, not charging off mindlessly. They are defending.

Sort of like every other playable race at the start of GW2, don’t you think?

That is one group of 99% of the dwarves and Ogden is the 1% that seems to be reasonable. Currently searching for the Eotn dialogue about how the stone dwarves attack mindlessly and are overconfident.

Umh.

Jalis and his Vanguard were not 99% of the dwarven race, Gandarel. I use Ogden as an example because he is the one modern example that we have.

“They act as guardians of the Depths of Tyria, fighting off the minions of Primordus and denying them passage to the surface. As such, they are hardly ever seen. "

“At first, only the advance force accompanying King Jalis participated in the ritual and were turned to stone. Over the following fifty years, the remaining dwarves participated. As of the present, no dwarf of flesh and blood remains. "

From the GW2 wiki.

The dialogue is just that, dialogue, it is speculation from a single character and situational.

Of course the dwarves were overconfident. They are made out of stone! Blessed by their god! What can possibly defeat them? (Look, personality and flaws! Like all races have!)

200 years have passed since then, 200 years of -defending- the surface. Not forging into the Depths. Attitudes might well have changed. Hell, they probably would have been different from the start.

My entire point being there is very much room for ArenaNet to make stone dwarves into a unique playable race with a lot of depth, and it would most importantly make sense.

Do you want more evidence that we have not been told everything about the ritual and its effects? Here. Also from the GW2 wiki.

“Though a great deal of dwarven lore comes from the Tome of Rubicon, the actual contents of the tome have been copied and re-written over the years, and sometimes its contents have been changed for political reasons.”

We have not been told everything. Taking what the Tome of Rubicon said at face value is folly.

The only real argument for dwarves as a playable race is that “A-net may change their mind”. Granted, Anything is possible, but it’s on par with turning Sylvari into elves. people don’t write threads about that because in all likelihood, it’s not going to happen even though “A-net may change their mind”.

ThatOddOne.4387:

They may decide they want the GW franchise to start mirroring other fantasy universes but we do know that their last known goal was to move away from that by writing dwarves out and redesigning the sylvari to make sure that they weren’t elves.

Again, for the last time, ArenaNet have -already- made the dwarves different to other fantasy universes. Your logic. It is not working.

It seems you didn’t understand Dustfinger’s point in what he said. He was meaning that “it is possible ArenaNet would want to go against everything they’ve already set up, but so far they don’t want this.” In other words, he was giving a hypothetical logic-twister to go with his opposition’s arguments of bringing dwarves back – by saying that ArenaNet could want to mirror other fantasy stories in the future, but currently and all their actions for GW2 up to now, has been for the opposite.

In other words, he was arguing on your side – that GW2 hasn’t gone in standard fantasy direction, and that they aren’t likely to go in such direction.

ThatOddOne.4387:

Even if they make another appearance, you can bet your granny’s kitten that they won’t be going back to how they were in Prophecies. If you want to see that, it’s best to just buy GW1.

facedesk

This isn’t getting into your head, is it?

People don’t want them back like they were in Prophecies.

Really? Re-read the post I was responding to, and you’ll see that that person wanted:

yes maybe we dont play as dwarves just bring theme out let theme go back to enslaving dredge and have theme have a great war once we defeat primordus they will have no reason to stay hidden and they can come back out

That sounds like wanting them to be as they were in Prophecies. Did I say “people”? No, I was responding to the one individual.

ThatOddOne.4387:

People want them how they are now, which is different to the norm.

Actually, you’re the only person who’ve I’ve seen wanting to play a stone dwarf.

ThatOddOne.4387:

What they are now does not preclude them from being a major or even playable race.

It kind of does. If only in the numbers they have remaining.

ThatOddOne.4387:

But it HASN’T written them off, has it?

That’s my entire point. Stop ignoring it.

Actually, it kind of has. The purpose of it was to give ArenaNet a reason not to include them in the story.

They still exist in lore, but they’re a dying species, unknown to most of those still alive, with little to no indivuduality and an ever decreasing chance of survival.

You use Ogden’s comment as proof that they’re still around… but how accurate is Ogden, exactly? And even if they’re still around now, how long until they’re wiped out?

Also keep in mind that their numbers are limited – this outright prevents them from being playable, imo, as there’d be millions of players that could be dwarfs. That’s hardly limited numbers.

Even if they’re not impossible to return now, ArenaNet has stated that they were writing them out. We’re not ignoring you or your arguments, but it does feel like you’re ignoring ours.

ThatOddOne.4387:

ArenaNet have backtracked significantly since that “quote” (still using the term lightly because I still haven’t seen it linked). This is undeniable fact as it is right there in the game.

It was outright stated with this that there’d be one dwarf seen in the game. And Ogden’s statement isn’t exactly proof against writing them out of the story.

You don’t need to kill something off to write them out. TVTropes calls what ArenaNet did to dwarves being put on a bus

ThatOddOne.4387:

You mean… The entire point of GW2?

No, actually it’s not.

There’s dozens of other threats and plots besides the dragons – the living story is the proof of this. And even if you disregard those, what about after the Elder Dragons are done as a plot (they don’t all need to be killed off, ya know)? The Elder Dragons, now down by one, was just the point of the main plot. And now that the original main plot is done, it can go a different direction and leave the other five dragons – if all are even focused on – for side plots.

-rest in next post-

-continued from previous post-

ThatOddOne.4387:

From the GW2 wiki.

It’s best to find the sources, rather than quoting a fan-written article.

The fight between the Dwarves and the Destroyers consumed the Dwarven race. Few lived to return to the surface and tell the tale of their victory—and those who did had been irrevocably altered. No longer made of flesh and bone, no blood pumped through their veins. Instead, they found their bodies composed entirely of stone surrounding nothing but cold, hard earth.

No longer interested in maintaining their solidarity as a race, these last Dwarves scattered across Tyria, finding battles to fight in the deep caverns or making new homes in far-flung hills, ever-watching the borders where caverns emerge into the surface world. Those few individuals who can rightfully claim to have met a Dwarf in their lifetime are rare, and all speak of the strange, driven passion that consumes these few survivors.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Movement_of_the_World#Dwarves

And the source for your own argument rather shows that they’re not playable race material. Unlike the other playable races, they don’t show solidarity, no unity despite the collective consciousness. They’re hermits now, and limited in numbers – ever decreasing numbers as they battle the destroyers. And now that the destroyers are appearing on the surface more frequently, which is further commented on in Edge of Destiny iirc, their numbers seem to be dwindling.

ThatOddOne.4387:

The dialogue is just that, dialogue, it is speculation from a single character and situational.

And why couldn’t Ogden be the sole reasonable dwarf? After all, he is “situational.”

ThatOddOne.4387:

200 years have passed since then, 200 years of -defending- the surface. Not forging into the Depths. Attitudes might well have changed. Hell, they probably would have been different from the start.

My entire point being there is very much room for ArenaNet to make stone dwarves into a unique playable race with a lot of depth, and it would most importantly make sense.

While the Movement of the World – a source from 2009 that got retconned in multiple ways via the argument of it having been put through multiple revisions by scholars of the Durmand Priory – does say that they stand at the surface, everything since has said that they’re in the Depths themselves, fighting destroyers. An active battle of offense and defense.

200 years of defending? Yes. 200 years of defending in the Depths against a constant attack from Primordus without any means of reproduction.

Is there room for their return? Sure. Room for becoming playable? Possible, but unlikely. I think there’s a lot less room than you’re believing. But to each his own opinion. Besides, you’re making a huge assumption by simply disregarding our sources on their personality as “situational.”

I personally wished that Leroy Stonekin took the rite just so that in some dungeon path or event we had to chase the mad little blighter again through swarms of destroyers to find his stash of ancient booze.

Solar Brink.1490:

I personally wished that Leroy Stonekin took the rite just so that in some dungeon path or event we had to chase the mad little blighter again through swarms of destroyers to find his stash of ancient booze.

Can happen. Deldrimor Front is still locked.

Kilroy Stonekin.

@ Gandarel: The memorial to Kilroy Stonekin at the Granite Citadel seems to point to the idea that he is, in fact, dead. There could be a change in the future, but for now it seems to be the case.

There’s a memorial to him in the Granite Citadel? I only recall his misspelled tomb (“Stonekin” vs “Stoneskin”).

Narcemus.1348:

Kilroy Stonekin.

@ Gandarel: The memorial to Kilroy Stonekin at the Granite Citadel seems to point to the idea that he is, in fact, dead. There could be a change in the future, but for now it seems to be the case.

Or its for future generations to know how epic he was before the rite.

I would play a stone dwarf.

It is precisciely because stone dwarfs have such a different take on, and potentionally different look to standard fantasy dwarfs that it would be a thrill to play them.

You have a very strong narrative and backstory from which to craft a detailed and compelling personal story line about dwarfs not only coming to grips with the transformation and the effect of over 200 years of constant warfare, but to the significant changes to the world above, the advancement of the other races, and the devistation caused by the other dragons.

You have an elder race which was akittens cultural and technilogical height, rebuilding and restarting, in a completely different world, haunted by the legacy of thier past.

There are so many ways they can take the story that it is simply amazing to think about.

Reconciliation with the dredge, reawakening and relearning the lost arts of brewing, and crafting from the Norn, rebuilding and possibly reclaiming their lost cities.

So often the dwarf narrative is that of a slow decline and then a stormy end. Anet has the chance to flip that narrative around and focus on dwarfs rebuilding and growing as a society. Something that no one else has really done, espeically in a game setting.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

There’s a memorial to him in the Granite Citadel? I only recall his misspelled tomb (“Stonekin” vs “Stoneskin”).

I’d have to go back, wiki is incomplete on the subject…

Gandarel.5091:

^ Exactly, Arenanet stated they wanted to write off dwarves, because they didn’t want to have the races other MMOs have.

However, I’m still curious about what will happen if Primordus is defeated and the dwarves will not have any goals for future. Will they vanish into the depths, or will the ritual break?

For not wanting to have the races other MMOs have, the Sylvari sure seem a lot like Night Elves (and the Charr to some degree an Orc-Troll hybrid but much furrier). I believe the Ritual is permanent so once Primodus belly-ups the dwarves either help the other races fight the other dragons or they simply come back to the surface and reclaim their homes.

But that would involve delving into the Shiverpeaks, and…ruh roh…

Reclaiming their lands may cause conflict with other races. They may not be in a position to do that in some instances, depeding on how depleated their forces are after Primordus is defeated.

While the sylvari are inspired by classic elves of traditional folklore, they definatlly don’t follow traditional Tolkien tendancies. They aren’t porteayed as an ancient race of ancient forest keepers that are just diffent colored humans with long lives. They are instead, a race of living plants that are only 25 years old. Not a race of ancients with ancient knowledge and an ancient stewardship who’s in decline.

Charr are only orc/troll in the sense that they are viscious and militant. We can always force a round peg into a square hole so there is always going to be some kind of similarity to almost anything else.

Sylvari are hardly inspired by elves. Elves are Norse in origin, and Tolkien elves follow a kittenization of them. Sylvari have Celtic and Arthorian influences, such as the Fae (aka the original fairies, and not the little insect sized kittenization of them most view fairies as) and more. The Nightmare Court, for example, is officially said to be highly inspired by the Unseeligh (sp?) Court. Even the term Wyld Hunt comes from Celtic folklore, though the meaning us greatly changed as the original version was when the Celtic gods and Fae would go on hunts and any human witnessing them ended up dead (iirc, that is).

true enough. I meant fae folk. But elves were included in traditional british folklore as aaprt of the fae folk.