Elder Dragons
Actually, there are icebrood and branded that do talk, though admittingly hardly any of the later. So in the cases of Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, and Jormag, I believe the name does come to us from the dragon’s minions. Primordus is harder to explain, but it’s possible that in his case, Primordus is simply the dwarvern name, and not his own name for himself.
I don’t know for sure about the last two, but if I have to guess, I’d say Mordremoth will have talking minions (based on the idea that the blighted creatures in Wychmire Swamp are corrupted by him, and the precedent that corrupted beings retain their previous capacity for speech), and some air-head sylvari will introduce Bubbles to the canon.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
We kind of know that Mordremoth is the name because of subject alpha’s skills names although there is nothing lore wise to get the name i believe. As Aaron has already pointed out, the minions can talk as we see in the personal story where the mouth of Zhaitan talks and other powerful minions interact with the player. I am sure some lore heavy person will come and answer your other half, but ill take a guess they were given the names by a defected dragon minion/champion like glint or an ancient race.
Actually, there are icebrood and branded that do talk, though admittingly hardly any of the later.
When you say icebrood do you mean a Norn that has accepted Jormag or do you mean full on ice sculpture. Because if it’s the former, the Norn could have various reasons why it “thinks” it knows Jormag’s name, without the dragon ever whispering in his ear. Even moreover, unless it’s something created by the dragon or with no knowledge of the dragon at all prior to corruption, it could have various reasons why it thinks it knows its master’s true name.
EDIT: In fact, if it’s true that things affected by dragonic corruption retain their prior knowledge, then we may not have ever known their names in the first place. Imagine this: Person X sees Zhaitan for the first time in Tyria. X calls the dragon Zhaitan. It catches on. Suddenly everyone is calling it Zhaitan. When Zhaitan acquires minions, his minions refer to him by how they know him; Zhaitan. It’s possible that none of the dragons’ names are true, even Zhaitan. I guess it depends on how much influence you think dragons have on their minions?
(edited by Simplicity.7208)
It’s possible that the dragons do not have their own names, but rather that their names were given to them by the races of Tyria and through common usage have become their names. It’s advantageous for their minions and even them to follow along with the names given to them because it easily identifies them. They probably don’t even care xD.
Alternatively the dragons gave themselves their names/their names come from somewhere else, somewhere older. Glint had a name, and had a name when she was corrupted. The dragons are intelligent creatures, so it’s within the realm of possibility that they communicated their names somehow.
Alright, as requested I’ll get deeper into it.
Zhaitan: In Sea of Sorrows, sailors who were killed by the Great Tsunami refer to Zhaitan as Zhaitan after being reanimated, and in-game we see Orrians who were killed in the Cataclysm, before any Elder Dragon so much as stirred, do the same. It’s safe to say that the name therefore comes to the minions in the course of the corruption, and is at the very least how the dragon wishes to be called by its minions.
Kralkatorrik: Named by Glint in Edge of Destiny, and in the same chapter, springs into the thought process of a freshly-corrupted charr. Like Zhaitan, is the name its minions know it by without any outside influence.
Jormag: This one, Simplicity, I can only cite the precedent of the other two for. The only icebrood I know of that name Jormag are former norn, and thus likely Sons of Svanir. There is, however, the weak evidence that most uncorrupted Sons call it Dragon, while most icebrood Sons use Jormag. And again, we know that two dragons have at the very least taken the names they were given for their own, if not picked them out themselves, and have no reason to believe Jormag’s case is any different.
Primordus: As mentioned in my last post, none of the destroyers talk. The only real candidate of the four, imo, for having a name other than the one we use for him- though where Primordus comes from is still up in the air. I lean towards the theory that it was the “true name” of the Great Destroyer that was never to be spoken, and is known to modern Tyrians through the Tome of Rubicon, but only because there’s no other possibilities that spring to mind.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Let’s assume the Dwarves had the names of the dragons in their tomes from the last time the dragons rose. How did they know the names of the dragons? Were they able to communicate with them? Probably not. So how did they know that their names were as such? Furthermore, where does that leave dragons like Mordremoth or Bubbles who have no record in the Dwarves’ tomes of knowledge? How will we ever learn their names?
Fun fact: We know the names from those dwarven tomes and myths (and jotun stelae and myth).
But to answer your question:
Dragonspawn from Edge of Destiny as well as several Icebrood in-game (even a quaggan icebrood, if memory doesn’t fail me) actually says “Jormag” (though the Dragonspawn seems to speak an ancient language – take that for what you will). Risen from the game and Edge of Destiny and Sea of Sorrow mention “Zhaitan”. Cannot say for Primordus and technically we don’t even know if Mordremoth is the jungle dragon and obviously we know not the DSD’s name. Kralkatorrik’s name likely came from Glint herself, a former (read: purified by the Forgotten’s magic) champion of Kralkatorrik.
Honestly, the only question is Primordus given that he – unlike the other dragons (though Mordremoth and the DSD may also be like him) – does not corrupt living beings directly. My guess would be that in the past he did corrupt living beings and they went about going “hail Primordus!”
That or the dwarves made his name up.
And for Mordremoth – nothing says that his name is known in lore by the races, since we got his name via mechanical references (Teeth of Primordus, Teeth of Jormag, and Teeth of Mordremoth all skill names used by Subject Alpha).
When you say icebrood do you mean a Norn that has accepted Jormag or do you mean full on ice sculpture. Because if it’s the former, the Norn could have various reasons why it “thinks” it knows Jormag’s name, without the dragon ever whispering in his ear.
Dunno how Aaron meant it, but both. Keep in mind that a dragon minion retains its old memories but also gains immense fanaticism towards its dragon even not knowing who or what the dragon is, once corrupted it suddenly does. See Edge of Destiny, when Kralkatorrik awakes and begins Branding. The newly made dragon minions have narrated thoughts for following the dragon (despite not knowing it was a dragon) and name Kralkatorrik in their thoughts.
In fact, if it’s true that things affected by dragonic corruption retain their prior knowledge, then we may not have ever known their names in the first place. Imagine this: Person X sees Zhaitan for the first time in Tyria. X calls the dragon Zhaitan. It catches on. Suddenly everyone is calling it Zhaitan. When Zhaitan acquires minions, his minions refer to him by how they know him; Zhaitan. It’s possible that none of the dragons’ names are true, even Zhaitan. I guess it depends on how much influence you think dragons have on their minions?
Your line of thought requires every single minion to have heard the name “Zhaitan” before. That is physically impossible because Orrians were dead when they were made Risen, and had no knowledge it even existed before being corrupted.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Thanks for the replies! Still wonder about Primordus though…is it our name for him or his name for him…I’d lean on the side of Primordus being his actual name though.