Guild Wars 2

At the end of the assault Kiel, Magnus, Canach and some other Sylvari make their exit via an airship. That to me looked pretty much exactly like an Aetherblade ship.

Evon who is stationed at the Vigil keep gets against his will promoted into the Lionguard. He asks on whose orders and the answer is it was Kiel. He wants to know about her whereabouts and the Asura officier tells him she is in a camp to the south with Magnus.

But she must have gone lost on her way over that mountainside. Because she is not.

Kiel’s airship is actually over Stormbluff Isle, just kind of hanging out. Don’t think she comes down herself though.

It ‘looks’ like an aetherblade ship because the aetherblades modified the pact airships…

So it’s more that the aetherships look like Ellen’s ship, rather than the other way around.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

It ‘looks’ like an aetherblade ship because the aetherblades modified the pact airships…

So it’s more that the aetherships look like Ellen’s ship, rather than the other way around.

No, actually, Ellen’s ship is an Aetherblade ship, the one from Aetherblade Retreat. Magnus appropriated it for her as part of his campaign to back her bid for a Council seat.

Oh my bad. Still, the Aetherblade ships are stolen modified Pact airships – so technically she’s riding a now-aetherblade once-pact ship.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

so technically she’s riding a now-aetherblade once-pact ship.

She’s actually riding a “now hers-earlier aetherblade-once pact” ship :P

The madness
15Charrs

You mean the ship that Kiel stole from us players after we went through all that hard work fighting through the Aetherblade Retreat while she just watched us, doing nothing?

Chrispy.5641:

You mean the ship that Kiel stole from us players after we went through all that hard work fighting through the Aetherblade Retreat while she just watched us, doing nothing?

This logic is getting old and bothersome to read.

We’re not the protagonists in Tyria. We’ve certain degree of importance and recognition, but that’s about it.

I’m going to quote another game here, that pretty much sums up who we are in Tyria:

“A good roadie knows his whole job is to make someone else look good. Keep someone else safe. Help someone else do what they were put here to do.

A good roadie stays out of the spot light. If he’s doing his job right you don’t even know he’s there. Once in awhile he might step on stage just to fix a problem, to set something right. But then before you even realize he was there, or what he did, he’s gone."

Players have serious self-esteem and narcissism issues if they so direly want the spotlight in a bloody video game.

I suggest such players should play Special Ops: The Line. It has a message for you.

phaneo.4597:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

so technically she’s riding a now-aetherblade once-pact ship.

She’s actually riding a “now hers-earlier aetherblade-once pact” ship :P

It’s a stolen Pact ship. Regardless of the hands it passed through between its origins and it’s current possessor, it’s a stolen Pact ship.

Captain Ellen Kiel: Thank you for answering my summons. I just learned that an Aetherblade airship loaded with plunder from Lion’s Arch went down nearby.
First Mate Fidus Foecrush: It’s our lucky day. What are your orders, Cap’n?
Captain Ellen Kiel: Those pirates will want their loot back. When they come for it, we’ll be there to greet them. Go secure that treasure so we can return it to its rightful owners.
First Mate Fidus Foecrush: Wait, to its rightful…Cap’n, begging your pardon, but wouldn’t your campaign be better served if we used that–
Captain Ellen Kiel: Belay that talk, mister. I won’t build our campaign on the backs of victims.
Captain Ellen Kiel: Now, I’m ordering you to protect those valuables at all cost. I’ll send relief soon.

I’m not sure if it’s inconsistent writing (or another explanation of the origins of her air ship) or if the writers are intentionally showing her to be a hypocrite in her attempt to get elected. She didn’t have trouble keeping a ship stolen from the Pact by Aetherblades (thus using her own argument from Candidate Trials, her status as a captain is built on the backs of victims) but as soon as there is an election she is playing the White Knight. I don’t think she’s as good as she often tries to appear.

After Kiel evacuates Magnus and the other Lionguard she must make a stop off at Vigil Keep. That’s where Canach is and he was on the ship when it leaves from Lion’s Arch. But yeah, I assume the ship above Stormbluff Island is hers (I haven’t seen her or Magnus come down from it however). I first thought it was part of an Aetherblade event.

As far as players being in the spotlight goes, I seem to recall us being fairly important in the Personal Story (as the name suggests, a name not shared by the Living World). A Personal Story and MMO canon aren’t exactly natural friends but I wouldn’t dismiss the desire for players to feel important and recognised in the actions (but giving everyone who did Aetherblade Retreat a time-share airship is probably not the best way).

There are a couple of different ways the airship’s custody could have worked…

Depending on the different modifications the Inquest and Aetherblades did to the airship, the Pact might not want it back. The Inquest isn’t really known for their advances in technology to be totally “safe”, just quick. The Pact might have viewed the airship as untrustworthy afterwards, and they didn’t contest LA’s or Ellen’s claim on it.

Also, since it was used by the group that murdered a political figure of LA, LA did have some claim to it. I guessing that LA’s pirate “Finders Keepers” policy applies after this. The Pact lost it, Aetherblades lost it, LA (and players) seized it, and then it was given to Kiel. The Pact could have asked for it back, but it would only be a mess, and I don’t think the Pact would want to hurt relations with LA over an airship.

Shiren, that dialogue is about the crashed and unusable airship that was seen in Labyrinthine Cliffs. This happened after she commandeered an Aetherblade airship. The treasure talked about was in fact Aetherblade-stolen loot from Lion’s Arch, and she returned it to Lion’s Arch.

Magnus the Bloody Handed: Nice captain’s uniform.
Captain Ellen Kiel: I stole it off those Aetherblades who attacked the Arch. I figured as long as I was taking one of their airships, I may as well take their look too.
Magnus the Bloody Handed: Did the swagger come with it, or was that of your own making?
Captain Ellen Kiel: That, I was born with.
Magnus the Bloody Handed: You ready to beat the smug off that greedy ol’ pirate?
Captain Ellen Kiel: Gnashblade? No problem. Well, small problem. Okay, so he’s probably going to smear me, but I’ll give it my best shot.
Magnus the Bloody Handed: Good. Don’t underestimate him. And don’t disappoint me. I’m sticking my neck out, ‘cause I think you can win.
Captain Ellen Kiel: I’ll do my very best.
Magnus the Bloody Handed: All right, Captain Ellen Kiel. You’d better go make sure your crew isn’t robbing you blind.
Captain Ellen Kiel: Aye, aye.
This happened during Bazaar of the Four Winds content in Fort Marriner, before Kiel went to Labyrinthine Cliffs.

Also: Only the first airships were stolen from the Pact. After that they began reverse engineering them – as seen in Twilight Arbor. Whether the one Kiel got was the former or the later… unknown.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Players have serious self-esteem and narcissism issues if they so direly want the spotlight in a bloody video game.

I suggest such players should play Special Ops: The Line. It has a message for you.

Eluveitie.1290:

Chrispy.5641:

You mean the ship that Kiel stole from us players after we went through all that hard work fighting through the Aetherblade Retreat while she just watched us, doing nothing?

This logic is getting old and bothersome to read.

We’re not the protagonists in Tyria. We’ve certain degree of importance and recognition, but that’s about it.

I’m going to quote another game here, that pretty much sums up who we are in Tyria:

“A good roadie knows his whole job is to make someone else look good. Keep someone else safe. Help someone else do what they were put here to do.

A good roadie stays out of the spot light. If he’s doing his job right you don’t even know he’s there. Once in awhile he might step on stage just to fix a problem, to set something right. But then before you even realize he was there, or what he did, he’s gone."

Posting this because it’s fitting. My words, from another topic.

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship? How would he/she crew it, maintain it, fund it? What is your characters backstory that allows them to be able to operate an Airship fluidly without crashing into a hill?

Why should the Lionguard just let a random Adventurer (admittedly one who helped them, and might be part of the officer level of the Pact) waltz away with an airship? The Aetherblades attacked LA, it’s part of their attack. Lionguard taking it gives LA an airship as well as lets them scour it for any information or clues that might be onboard. All in all, the “SHE STOLE MY AIRSHIP. I FOUGHT THROUGH IT, SHOULD BE MINE!” comes across and childish whining and temper tantum.

Also, lets say your character would make an issue of it. Who would help him/her fly the airship out of LA against the Lionguard? They could dogpile your character and toss him in a cell. Or simply go “Hey, that guy waltzed off with an Airship, if he walks through the gate he is to be arrested on sight.”

Kalavier.1097:

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship?

Go looking for Vyse, Aika, and Fina.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I suggest such players should play Special Ops: The Line. It has a message for you.

Scars are manly? White phosphorous makes for wonderful ambiance? Dubai is not a nice vacation spot? An entire renegade military unit can somehow function, coordinate and take action with a dead commander and no apparent command structure? As in literally the dude was dead, who was given them orders... unless it was all a dream... was it a dream...?

Nah don’t worry I get what you mean :P Ah that game made me feel horrible about myself, great game.

Uruz Six.6594:

Kalavier.1097:

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship?

Go looking for Vyse, Aika, and Fina.

Speak for yourself, I’d be going for Zidane, Amarant, Vivi, and Beatrix. A better thief than any in Tyria, a brawler who can give ogres a run for their money, one of the most powerful users of offensive-type magic, and the single most dangerous sword wielder ever.

And together? Off to Elona to give a long overdue spanking to some petulant walking corpse with delusions of absolute power over the region.

Uruz Six.6594:

Kalavier.1097:

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship?

Go looking for Vyse, Aika, and Fina.

I have finished that game not so long ago ;D

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Speak for yourself, I’d be going for Zidane, Amarant, Vivi, and Beatrix. A better thief than any in Tyria, a brawler who can give ogres a run for their money, one of the most powerful users of offensive-type magic, and the single most dangerous sword wielder ever.

And together? Off to Elona to give a long overdue spanking to some petulant walking corpse with delusions of absolute power over the region.

No Quina?

Not even on the off chance that s/he might try and devour Joko whole, if you tell him/her that he is talking magical beef jerky?

For shame!

Kalavier.1097:

Posting this because it’s fitting. My words, from another topic.

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship? How would he/she crew it, maintain it, fund it? What is your characters backstory that allows them to be able to operate an Airship fluidly without crashing into a hill?

Maybe keep it in my home instance in Divinity’s Reach until I need it. Even just making it float above that area would have been enough, and would have been an awesome visual proof that I raided the Aetherblade Retreat. (you missed a chance on this one Anet…)

Kalavier.1097:

Why should the Lionguard just let a random Adventurer (admittedly one who helped them, and might be part of the officer level of the Pact) waltz away with an airship? The Aetherblades attacked LA, it’s part of their attack. Lionguard taking it gives LA an airship as well as lets them scour it for any information or clues that might be onboard. All in all, the “SHE STOLE MY AIRSHIP. I FOUGHT THROUGH IT, SHOULD BE MINE!” comes across and childish whining and temper tantum.

I (and many other players) are Pact Commanders. We aren’t just some random adventurers! We’d definitely be more well known at that point in time than the Lionguard’s puppet Kiel, thats for sure.

Eluveitie.1290:

Chrispy.5641:

You mean the ship that Kiel stole from us players after we went through all that hard work fighting through the Aetherblade Retreat while she just watched us, doing nothing?

This logic is getting old and bothersome to read.

We’re not the protagonists in Tyria. We’ve certain degree of importance and recognition, but that’s about it.

I’m going to quote another game here, that pretty much sums up who we are in Tyria:

“A good roadie knows his whole job is to make someone else look good. Keep someone else safe. Help someone else do what they were put here to do.

A good roadie stays out of the spot light. If he’s doing his job right you don’t even know he’s there. Once in awhile he might step on stage just to fix a problem, to set something right. But then before you even realize he was there, or what he did, he’s gone."

Yeah, uh….This is a poorly thought out joke right? I don’t play video games to be the wingman, to play second fiddle, or to stand just to the side of the spotlight while some random NPC character takes all the glory because the writers say so. Now, if you want to play a video game to do all that, to pay 60 bucks just to play supporting character, you go on ahead.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Players have serious self-esteem and narcissism issues if they so direly want the spotlight in a bloody video game.

I suggest such players should play Special Ops: The Line. It has a message for you.

And of what consequence does that message have for me? (Without spoiling the game, since everyone should play it)…It is an interesting message to be sure, but since the message is in a game that pretty much forces me to take certain actions, actions that are needed to be taken in order to get the message across, there is nothing for me to feel bad about, or care. Spec Ops gets the message wrong because its forced on you.

Bravely Default, has a similar message about someone’s inconsequential sense of righteousness. There is a line spoken towards the end that might have no meaning at all, or it will become vastly more powerful depending on the the optional stuff you do through the game. Its not the exact same message, and you could argue that its way different, but it had more impact because it wasn’t forced on you.

Konig, You need a different game to tell me to go play, without a forced message. If you really felt bad after playing a game, its because the game forced you, and you let your emotions fall slave to a couple lines of code. That’s much worse.

You seem to play games to be important and the center of attention. If you can’t tolerate following a story without taking all the glory, then this game is simply not for you.

Eluveitie.1290:

You seem to play games to be important and the center of attention. If you can’t tolerate following a story without taking all the glory, then this game is simply not for you.

I play games to take down warlords, keep balance, kill evil clowns, and save the world, even multiple realities at once from certain destruction by some dark force. I like doing things you can’t normally do in reality unless you suffer from schizophrenia. I don’t play a game to be a forgotten cog in a machine.

This game IS for me…., for 7/8th of the personal story (have you played that, or are you simply ignoring that to try to make your point?), then suddenly the entire story changes focus and the players are pretty much forgotten. I have hopes that eventually, players will take somewhat of a focus again instead of playing second fiddle to NPC’s, that don’t do anything outside of background actions you only hear about, needless exposition, and short stories posted online.

Chrispy.5641:

Kalavier.1097:

Posting this because it’s fitting. My words, from another topic.

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship? How would he/she crew it, maintain it, fund it? What is your characters backstory that allows them to be able to operate an Airship fluidly without crashing into a hill?

Maybe keep it in my home instance in Divinity’s Reach until I need it. Even just making it float above that area would have been enough, and would have been an awesome visual proof that I raided the Aetherblade Retreat. (you missed a chance on this one Anet…)

And note how the home instance (besides NPCs) displays NONE of the items in the personal story tab. You don’t have a LA banner hanging in your house, or Apatia’s axe on a desk.

edit: Oh, and what would the Norn do then, or the Sylvari? You know, the Norn home instance takes place ENTIRELY indoors, and the Sylvari is at the bottom level of the grove/Pale tree. Neither could see an Airship, much less have one around. And after the attack on Jubilee having an Aetherblade airship floating above Salma district would get you serious flack.

Kalavier.1097:

Why should the Lionguard just let a random Adventurer (admittedly one who helped them, and might be part of the officer level of the Pact) waltz away with an airship? The Aetherblades attacked LA, it’s part of their attack. Lionguard taking it gives LA an airship as well as lets them scour it for any information or clues that might be onboard. All in all, the “SHE STOLE MY AIRSHIP. I FOUGHT THROUGH IT, SHOULD BE MINE!” comes across and childish whining and temper tantum.

I (and many other players) are Pact Commanders. We aren’t just some random adventurers! We’d definitely be more well known at that point in time than the Lionguard’s puppet Kiel, thats for sure.

I suppose everybody would know the name/history of a USA Army general comes walking through town right? Hell, not many living story npcs comment on the “Pact commander” status besides one in Molten Alliance, and I’m fairly sure that’s the HEAD of the Iron legion. Hell, in terms of LA we might be LESS known then Kiel. The Lionguard would know of us, but we are that person who retook claw island, then left to fight the Risen and didn’t stick around and help rebuild the fort.

So: Random guy who fought at Claw Island/LA, retook Claw Island, then promptly left with the orders so most of us probably never met him directly."
vs “Kiel, who we all know heavily, work with, and see almost every day probably.”

Oh, ALSO the fact that you’d be fighting the Captain’s council. Magnus claimed the Airship and then gifted it to Kiel. So you aren’t simply saying “SHE STOLE IT!” You are trying to fight the head of the Lionguard and member of the council. I’m fairly sure they’d go for “Yeah, let’s keep this airship for the Lionguard” instead of “Let the Pact commander take it despite the fact he could just go order around any number of the airships the Pact uses.”

Still, Real life comparison. If raiding a criminal hideout, would they just let a USA Army officer drive off with a vehicle parked inside? Nope. They’d keep it for investigation or trial. Hell, going “PACT COMMANDER, GIMME AIRSHIP” Would result in a "Oh, a Pact commander, just go down to Fort Trinity and claim one of the airships IN THE PACT. We’ll be taking this one for the Lionguard.

edit2: OH YEAH. You know, you should freaking talk to the npcs around the Marionette wreckage. The ones that directly state YOU HELPED BRING THIS DOWN. Or Vorpp/Marjory/Kasmeer, who state that if YOU HADN’T HELP FIGURE IT OUT/INPUTTED, They wouldn’t have been able to respond so quick.

Your character helps out a lot, and gets credit all throughout the Personal story (Trahearne NEVER steals credit or glory from you), and even in Living story they’ve started to give credit to the player.

Chrispy.5641:

Eluveitie.1290:

You seem to play games to be important and the center of attention. If you can’t tolerate following a story without taking all the glory, then this game is simply not for you.

I play games to take down warlords, keep balance, kill evil clowns, and save the world, even multiple realities at once from certain destruction by some dark force. I like doing things you can’t normally do in reality unless you suffer from schizophrenia. I don’t play a game to be a forgotten cog in a machine.

This game IS for me…., for 7/8th of the personal story (have you played that, or are you simply ignoring that to try to make your point?), then suddenly the entire story changes focus and the players are pretty much forgotten. I have hopes that eventually, players will take somewhat of a focus again instead of playing second fiddle to NPC’s, that don’t do anything outside of background actions you only hear about, needless exposition, and short stories posted online.

Have YOU played the rest of the game? It gives us credit all the time for what is done. We call the shots in a lot of things. People celebrate us. Even now on the living story, we’re flattered with recognition everywhere.

A wide range of players just simply can’t tolerate sharing the glory and recognition with others. No, they must be THE one and only.

Besides, it’s an MMO, you can’t expect the experience you would get from a single-player game that it’s focused on the main character.

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Players have serious self-esteem and narcissism issues if they so direly want the spotlight in a bloody video game.

I suggest such players should play Special Ops: The Line. It has a message for you.

And of what consequence does that message have for me? (Without spoiling the game, since everyone should play it)…It is an interesting message to be sure, but since the message is in a game that pretty much forces me to take certain actions, actions that are needed to be taken in order to get the message across, there is nothing for me to feel bad about, or care. Spec Ops gets the message wrong because its forced on you.

Bravely Default, has a similar message about someone’s inconsequential sense of righteousness. There is a line spoken towards the end that might have no meaning at all, or it will become vastly more powerful depending on the the optional stuff you do through the game. Its not the exact same message, and you could argue that its way different, but it had more impact because it wasn’t forced on you.

Konig, You need a different game to tell me to go play, without a forced message. If you really felt bad after playing a game, its because the game forced you, and you let your emotions fall slave to a couple lines of code. That’s much worse.

I didn’t feel bad. I actually missed that particular message first playthrough because I’m not used to such messages being brought out (derp goes the me). It was more a comment about how people seem to feel entitled to being the hero of games and getting all the credit, and when they don’t get such they go into a massive QQ’ing mode, even though it’s 100% perfectly logical that they don’t get the credit (such as in, gasp, GW1 and GW2).

Basically, my point was what Eluveitie said. Those who are complaining are playing to be the center of attention, the gloryhound, etc. whatever terminology you wish to utilize. If it bothers you so much that one in a very few games don’t give you this, then you have self-esteem issues since you apparently feel the need to be complimented by a game.

And if you cannot handle some very minor things being shared credit, then it’s obvious that you should stick to single-player games or MMOs that ignore every other player.

Interesting direction this conversation this has went in. I originally made that short comment as an act of sarcasm. Sarcasm is meant to be a joke, especially because many people don’t understand what sarcasm is.

Since I made that sarcastic remark, which none of you were able to see, so far, I have been accused not once, but twice of having mental health issues, with no supporting evidence other than the fact that I have a different point of view than you do (And I thought you were better than that Konig, but since my original remark irked you so much that you would stoop to such a level, I will get to you shortly)

But first….

Kalavier.1097:

And note how the home instance (besides NPCs) displays NONE of the items in the personal story tab. You don’t have a LA banner hanging in your house, or Apatia’s axe on a desk.

edit: Oh, and what would the Norn do then, or the Sylvari? You know, the Norn home instance takes place ENTIRELY indoors, and the Sylvari is at the bottom level of the grove/Pale tree. Neither could see an Airship, much less have one around. And after the attack on Jubilee having an Aetherblade airship floating above Salma district would get you serious flack.

And that’s several opportunities that Anet failed to take advantage of. Instead of the Home Instance being like the Hall of Monuments (where you can show off your accomplishments to other players, or just look at them yourself to remind you of what your character has done), the home instance is a barren wasteland that doesn’t even recognize the player’s existence aside from very few dialogue options, and maybe a few ore nodes depending on what you’ve done in the game or bought from the gem store.

Kalavier.1097:

I suppose everybody would know the name/history of a USA Army general comes walking through town right? Hell, not many living story npcs comment on the “Pact commander” status besides one in Molten Alliance, and I’m fairly sure that’s the HEAD of the Iron legion. Hell, in terms of LA we might be LESS known then Kiel. The Lionguard would know of us, but we are that person who retook claw island, then left to fight the Risen and didn’t stick around and help rebuild the fort.

Actually, everyone in America, and lots more people across the world knows who General David Petraeus was even before the controversy surrounding him in 2012, and have known who he was since he went before Congress in the mid 2000’s over the Troop Surge.

Immediately following any war, for perhaps a decade afterwards, everyone knows the names of the Generals that participated, and anyone else who did ‘heroic’ stuff. Following WWI, every country in the world who participated knew who John J. Pershing was.

Kalavier.1097:

Still, Real life comparison. If raiding a criminal hideout, would they just let a USA Army officer drive off with a vehicle parked inside? Nope. They’d keep it for investigation or trial. Hell, going “PACT COMMANDER, GIMME AIRSHIP” Would result in a "Oh, a Pact commander, just go down to Fort Trinity and claim one of the airships IN THE PACT. We’ll be taking this one for the Lionguard.

yeah, us Americans totally didn’t take over Saddam’s Palace, and many other places, and then use it and the equipment there (that wasn’t worthless to the most advanced military in the world) as a base of operations for several years….(yeah, we totally did!) The reason why we never used Iraqi tanks or jets, was because they were all inferior, and we destroyed almost all of them by the time ground troops got there.

Why do you have the need to mention USA? Its not like we are the shining beacon of honesty and selflessness across the land (they passed out bronze star awards like it was candy during the entire occupation,…for doing almost nothing. I know from experience!)

Kalavier.1097:

edit2: OH YEAH. You know, you should freaking talk to the npcs around the Marionette wreckage. The ones that directly state YOU HELPED BRING THIS DOWN. Or Vorpp/Marjory/Kasmeer, who state that if YOU HADN’T HELP FIGURE IT OUT/INPUTTED, They wouldn’t have been able to respond so quick.

Yeah, I have. Its kind of awesome, the recognition. But, I still don’t have any cool souvenirs for many of these events, which was mostly the point.

Kalavier.1097:

Your character helps out a lot, and gets credit all throughout the Personal story (Trahearne NEVER steals credit or glory from you), and even in Living story they’ve started to give credit to the player.

And? I still want an Airship! I’ll say again,….Thats kind of what my half serious (all sarcasm), comment was for.

Eluveitie.1290:

Have YOU played the rest of the game? It gives us credit all the time for what is done. We call the shots in a lot of things. People celebrate us. Even now on the living story, we’re flattered with recognition everywhere.

A wide range of players just simply can’t tolerate sharing the glory and recognition with others. No, they must be THE one and only.

Besides, it’s an MMO, you can’t expect the experience you would get from a single-player game that it’s focused on the main character.

So? Same as before. I still want an Airship, and I still say that since Ellen Kiel did zero things to help us capture that airship, she shouldn’t even be the owner to begin with. Any player who completed the dungeon should have an Airship to call their own instead. (Seriously, what did she do to deserve that Airship, other than a convient plot device to make her a captain of her own ship so she could grab the open spot on the Captain’s Council?)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

….snip…

Now we get to you. I have long said that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but…

…

wow….Just,….wow!

I appologize for assuming that what Spec Ops: The Line forces you to do, bothered you in some way (it seemed like you were implying that the message bothered you and mirrored what I was doing or something), but, beyond that, You don’t even deserve a response from me, nor should you have any respect from me anymore.

I might make smart[censored] comments sometimes that rubs people the wrong way because they fail to understand that it was a joke, but atleast I don’t devolve into insulting (or implying insult) to anyone.

Chrispy.5641:

I might make smart[censored] comments sometimes that rubs people the wrong way because they fail to understand that it was a joke, but atleast I don’t devolve into insulting (or implying insult) to anyone.

Really? Because what you just described yourself purposefully doing to other people, could be considered equally insulting. Especially if you come back and reply with something like, “Oh, I guess you don’t understand sarcasm.” Which is implying another insult towards the person.

Lets skip the personal insults and focus on lore.

Eluveitie.1290:

You seem to play games to be important and the center of attention. If you can’t tolerate following a story without taking all the glory, then this game is simply not for you.

I don’t want the airship but I do have an issue with my character doing something in the game and an NPC is given credit or rewards for it. What claim does Kiel personally have to the Aetherblade ship that wouldn’t be equally contested by a player character involves in Aetherblade Retreat? I don’t want the airship but if Kiel is going to get it, it should be because Kiel did the bulk of the work to get it, otherwise it feels like the story doesn’t value the player’s actions. What she actually did was stand near the fountain while Marjory told me where to look for clues and then she was almost useless in a dungeon where myself and four allies pulled her dead weight. Obviously it’s a game and the NPCs can’t do everything – that wouldn’t leave much gameplay for us, but when the player character is doing things and the story is awarding credit to an NPC, it dismisses the player character’s involvement in the story. The story doesn’t have to be all about us (I don’t have an issue with Gwen’s personal story being heavily intertwined into the EotN campaign – she’s iconic of Pre-Searing and she is well positioned to tell the story of Ascalons survivors, I even agree that Trahearne’s story and expertise in Orr make sense to weigh him with heavy importance to the Personal Story) but the actions that we take, they are about us. If the player is going to do something I want the story to accurately weigh those actions, not move on as if it didn’t happen and the NPC was the only notable person there.

I believe the Personal Story runs into consistency issues – up until Orr it very much is a Personal Story. I don’t blame people for being upset that the story sets a precedent of “this is your story” and then betrays that when it becomes Trahearne’s story (even though I like Trahearne’s story).

I don’t view Tyria as a story that happens without me and I am not influencing these events, I view Tyria as a place where my hero’s actions matter. I understand there are limitations with the story and player recognition repeated across thousands of characters (although that issue doesn’t seem to bother many people when we are all collectively Trahearne’s second in command) but if an NPC is going to be seen as the canon reason something is accomplished, it can’t be something the player characters actually did. This dismisses your involvement in the story and breaks the concept that my actions matter and my involvement matters.

Konig, my purpose in quoting the dialogue was not a misunderstanding of the time sequence of events (my point actually relies on the events taking place in the order they did), it was intended to demonstrate Kiel’s logic when it comes to profiting from stolen goods. She willingly accepts a ship which may have been stolen (I suspect the writers would conveniently go with “her ship isn’t a modified Pact one, it’s a reproduction”) but after accepting what I believed to be a stolen Pact ship she argues it’s wrong to accept stolen goods. I don’t care if the second ship was crashed and unusable – I wasn’t commenting on the ship but rather the idea of profiting from stolen goods – whether it be an Aetherblade ship stolen from the Pact or gold and loot stolen from the people of Lion’s Arch – in both cases the original owners are victims.

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

….snip…

Now we get to you. I have long said that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but…

…

wow….Just,….wow!

I appologize for assuming that what Spec Ops: The Line forces you to do, bothered you in some way (it seemed like you were implying that the message bothered you and mirrored what I was doing or something), but, beyond that, You don’t even deserve a response from me, nor should you have any respect from me anymore.

I might make smart[censored] comments sometimes that rubs people the wrong way because they fail to understand that it was a joke, but atleast I don’t devolve into insulting (or implying insult) to anyone.

You apparently didn’t read my post, at all.

Because as I stated, Special Ops: The Line did NOT bother me, at all. In any way, shape, or form. I don’t see how you’re getting such. Is this meant to be more sarcasm? Because if so, you’re very terrible at being sarcastic.

Nor was my original comment ever truly to you, but rather to people, in general, who cannot seem to handle not being the center of attention in a game. And if me stating that such people – those who wish to be the center of attention in a game that matters for nothing – have self-esteem issues (because apparently their self-esteem becomes reliant on a bunch of pixels and storywriting, fictional characters, etc. patting them on the back), it is not so much an insult so much as my perspective observation. If such an observation is insulting, then I apologize, but honestly? It’s no more insulting than how you are to me in your first post with your “sarcasm” – which I would not consider sarcasm, as sarcasm is the act of saying something you don’t mean – it is seldom a proper joke, but rather a way to be a kitten to others in a “fun” manner, and you making kitten comments is not being sarcastic, and what you responded to my original post earlier was, was being a kitten not sarcastic.

And as to the last comment – to be honest I got nothing more to add what Erukk said.

Shiren.9532:

Konig, my purpose in quoting the dialogue was not a misunderstanding of the time sequence of events (my point actually relies on the events taking place in the order they did), it was intended to demonstrate Kiel’s logic when it comes to profiting from stolen goods. She willingly accepts a ship which may have been stolen (I suspect the writers would conveniently go with “her ship isn’t a modified Pact one, it’s a reproduction”) but after accepting what I believed to be a stolen Pact ship she argues it’s wrong to accept stolen goods. I don’t care if the second ship was crashed and unusable – I wasn’t commenting on the ship but rather the idea of profiting from stolen goods – whether it be an Aetherblade ship stolen from the Pact or gold and loot stolen from the people of Lion’s Arch – in both cases the original owners are victims.

I clearly misunderstood your original post, as I took it to mean that you were using that dialogue to refer to her ship, rather than a separate one.

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Erukk.1408:

Chrispy.5641:

I might make smart[censored] comments sometimes that rubs people the wrong way because they fail to understand that it was a joke, but atleast I don’t devolve into insulting (or implying insult) to anyone.

Really? Because what you just described yourself purposefully doing to other people, could be considered equally insulting. Especially if you come back and reply with something like, “Oh, I guess you don’t understand sarcasm.” Which is implying another insult towards the person.

I said that comment for a reason, because, while I had my suspicions, it all but confirms that people were insulted by this (go on ahead and say you werent. The fact that you had to post about it means you were bothered by it in some way.) :::

Chrispy.5641:

You mean the ship that Kiel stole from us players after we went through all that hard work fighting through the Aetherblade Retreat while she just watched us, doing nothing?

In what way is that directed towards you, and are you and Konig so sensitive, that you were really insulted by me bringing up an old issue? (Konig des todes, were you so bothered by it that you really had to talk about an entire group of people as being narcissistic and having self-esteem issues? Not that I really felt anything from it or cared to begin with, because, hey, I’m an American! Vanity and Narcissism is part of our culture!)

I just still fail to see how that comment, sarcasm or not, joke or not, old argument or not, Vanity or not, Narcissism or not, Self-esteem issues or not, somehow related to Spec Ops: The Line or not, was so insulting to you. (now, I could have just said “Hey, it was a joke, don’t feel so hurt about it!”, but I wouldn’t have learned anything about the people who posted in this thread, so thanks for that!)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

How is that an inconsistency? First off, as has been mentioned before, that airship might not even belong to the Pact. However, even if it did, they literally have dozens of them, and no real immediate need or even use for more. Seeing as their whole ideal is bringing the military forces of Tyria together, why in the name of all Six Gods do you insist that they should fight over, or even begrudge, their closest non-order military allies keeping a single airship that they recovered at their own risk?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

How is that an inconsistency? First off, as has been mentioned before, that airship might not even belong to the Pact. However, even if it did, they literally have dozens of them, and no real immediate need or even use for more. Seeing as their whole ideal is bringing the military forces of Tyria together, why in the name of all Six Gods do you insist that they should fight over, or even begrudge, their closest non-order military allies keeping a single airship that they recovered at their own risk?

You mean, at Our Own Risk.

Chrispy.5641:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

How is that an inconsistency? First off, as has been mentioned before, that airship might not even belong to the Pact. However, even if it did, they literally have dozens of them, and no real immediate need or even use for more. Seeing as their whole ideal is bringing the military forces of Tyria together, why in the name of all Six Gods do you insist that they should fight over, or even begrudge, their closest non-order military allies keeping a single airship that they recovered at their own risk?

You mean, at Our Own Risk.

We were there on behalf of, and therefore as agents of, the Lionguard.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

How is that an inconsistency? First off, as has been mentioned before, that airship might not even belong to the Pact. However, even if it did, they literally have dozens of them, and no real immediate need or even use for more. Seeing as their whole ideal is bringing the military forces of Tyria together, why in the name of all Six Gods do you insist that they should fight over, or even begrudge, their closest non-order military allies keeping a single airship that they recovered at their own risk?

You mean, at Our Own Risk.

We were there on behalf of, and therefore as agents of, the Lionguard.

Actually, I was there on behalf of Logan Thackeray to bring Theo Ashford’s killer to justice. I could care less about a bunch of corrupt ex-pirates, so inept that they ignore all signs that their city is about to get attacked, then rely on us players (and the three orders) to defend their city when it does get attacked,…for like the third time in about a year.

Sigh…

“<Character name>,

The Aetherblade scoundrels have a base inside Lion’s Arch! I need deputies for a raid on their hideout. Consider yourself deputized. Head to the base of the waterfall at Diverse Ledges as soon as you can.

—Lionguard Inspector Ellen Kiel"

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Bash_mail

You were an acting deputy of the Lionguard. Why you accepted the role is your own business, but while raiding that base that was the part you were playing.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Sigh…

“<Character name>,

The Aetherblade scoundrels have a base inside Lion’s Arch! I need deputies for a raid on their hideout. Consider yourself deputized. Head to the base of the waterfall at Diverse Ledges as soon as you can.

—Lionguard Inspector Ellen Kiel"

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Bash_mail

You were an acting deputy of the Lionguard. Why you accepted the role is your own business, but while raiding that base that was the part you were playing.

uhhh…..your point is? The players still did all the work. Why didn’t Magnus give us the Airship instead of someone, who did nothing to help for the entire dungeon? (well, actually, she pressed a button or two, and also magically knew where the Aetherblade Retreat was to begin with with no explanation to why.)

Because he had known Ellen for years, and we’re just adventures who breeze through every once in a while? Because it was Ellen’s initiative that got us to do the heavy lifting, and that is precisely the kind of quality you’re looking for in a member of a ruling council? Because Ellen has worked hard all her life for the good of the city, and we pule like spoiled brats if we aren’t paid every time we lift a finger? Because we’re already second in command of the organization that invented the airship? Because only King Solomon would suggest cutting an airship into five parts? Take your pick.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Because he had known Ellen for years, and we’re just adventures who breeze through every once in a while? Because it was Ellen’s initiative that got us to do the heavy lifting, and that is precisely the kind of quality you’re looking for in a member of a ruling council? Because Ellen has worked hard all her life for the good of the city, and we pule like spoiled brats if we aren’t paid every time we lift a finger? Because we’re already second in command of the organization that invented the airship? Because only King Solomon would suggest cutting an airship into five parts? Take your pick.

By your king Solomon’s logic, there should only be one legendary weapon in the whole game of each type, not 5 million of them floating around. so….nope.

Ellen Kiel worked really hard, all the way until we got to this dungeon, because she did nothing, as I said. so….nope.

Its also the kind of quality that got Lions Arch destroyed apparently, because her inspiring words could do nothing to save the city. That, or she is lying. so….nope.

Magnus is making a political play that probably has nothing to do with Kiel anyways, so much as spreading his influence?…yeah, lets go with that one.

Chrispy.5641:

Ellen Kiel worked really hard, all the way until we got to this dungeon, because she did nothing, as I said. so….nope.

She did nothing? She was ressing my one PUG all the time, so she was doing more than half of the work. Pfft, besides what do I need with a starship . . . I mean, airship? Could you imagine the repair bills, the upkeep costs, the Consortium insurance bills? No thanks, let her have the headache.

Its also the kind of quality that got Lions Arch destroyed apparently, because her inspiring words could do nothing to save the city. That, or she is lying. so….nope.

Of course her inspiring words didn’t help. Captain Evon kept saying she was full of crap right up until he started “Kiel didn’t do anything to save you but I warned everyone about this” . . . not only that but all his supporters kept saying she was a lying liar who lied and unfit for the council, so really . . .

Does it surprise you the Council basically said “yeah, they don’t trust you so we should?” . . .

Magnus is making a political play that probably has nothing to do with Kiel anyways, so much as spreading his influence?…yeah, lets go with that one.

At least his heart is in the right place. “Fort Marriner has never fallen under my watch and it isn’t going to now!” Of course, that miasma, it’s a killer. Someone needs to do something about that air quality in LA.

Guys, he’s clearly a troll or someone beyond redemption from simple logic. Leave it be, let him talk to himself.

Eluveitie.1290:

Guys, he’s clearly a troll or someone beyond redemption from simple logic. Leave it be, let him talk to himself.

That reminds me (off topic)…

There was an interesting study about internet trolls that came out awhile ago. Of course, it just basically just told us what we already knew. Internet Trolls Really Are Horrible People. Though, it is always nice to have data on something to back up an argument.

People seem to miss the fact Kiel didn’t claim the Airship. Magnus did. Which mean contesting it would involve the Lionguard and maybe even the Captain’s council.

The amount of hassle that would create would be way too much when as a Pact commander you could find an airship that isn’t currently on a mission and request them to help you out with whatever.

Which is entirely what LA would say. “Go boss around one of your own airships. We are claiming this for LA.”

Also… this quote/mail

Sigh…

“<Character name>,

The Aetherblade scoundrels have a base inside Lion’s Arch! I need deputies for a raid on their hideout. Consider yourself deputized. Head to the base of the waterfall at Diverse Ledges as soon as you can.

—Lionguard Inspector Ellen Kiel"

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Bash_mail

You were an acting deputy of the Lionguard. Why you accepted the role is your own business, but while raiding that base that was the part you were playing.

In reality, by charging in their with Kiel, you were acting as a lionguard deputy. Which means all your effort was also “Lionguard effort”.

Eluveitie.1290:

Guys, he’s clearly a troll or someone beyond redemption from simple logic. Leave it be, let him talk to himself.

No, I just take the simple joy in the fact that you guys can’t stand someone with a different point of view from your own.

Call me a Troll if you want, but from my point of view, the Jedi are evil….no, wait! ….From my point of view, you are the Trolls, trying to force your viewpoint onto me.

Having a “different point of view” is rather different than ignoring evidence laid in front of your nose, by the way.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Having a “different point of view” is rather different than ignoring evidence laid in front of your nose, by the way.

evidence of what? With the exception of the mail that you guys showed me (Which doesn’t prove much other than the Lionguard’s incessant habit of forcibly deputizing people, even when outside their realm of influence), you have shown me no evidence so far other than your own interpretation of how the events transpired. Am I not allowed the same luxury? Must I agree with your interpretation of events and only your interpretation of events?

Even if Magnus was the one to claim the air ship, if it is stolen (and we have established in this thread it’s possible the air ship is not a modified Pact ship but rather a reverse engineered one created by the Aetherblades, probably built with stolen materials) then that’s just another set of hands it’s passing through from it’s original owner to its current owner. Accepting stolen property as a gift isn’t that different from keeping stolen property you’ve found, but these are pirates and we don’t know the ship was stolen in the first place. Magnus first claiming the ship does not absolve Kiel of responsibility when it comes to her accepting it. I don’t think it changes anything.

If it is a stolen Pact ship I don’t think the Pact would just let it go. We are told the Pact was hit hard by the fight against the Zhaitan. An air ship isn’t just an expense you write off, especially when you are scrambling to get back on your feet to take on the other four or five dragons. That ship would serve Tyria a lot better in the hands of the Pact than it will sitting in Lion’s Arch so a politician can run for government.

But I agree with Konig that all of that seems like a moot point if the ship was built by Aetherblades by reverse engineering Pact technology (essentially making it an Aetherblade ship). I think the story is more interesting when Kiel and Magnus stay true to a pirate’s loose definition of ownership and the political ramifications (even if minor) make Pact and Lionguard relationships more interesting (people not getting along tends to be more interesting than everyone getting along). Just like the OoW are viewed as sneaky basckstabbers, the Priory are viewed as dull academics or the Vigil are viewed as fight first ask questions later, I think the Liongaurd, Magnus and Kiel are so much more interesting as opportunistic pirates who might do the right thing, but they don’t follow the same rules as the others.

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Having a “different point of view” is rather different than ignoring evidence laid in front of your nose, by the way.

evidence of what? With the exception of the mail that you guys showed me (Which doesn’t prove much other than the Lionguard’s incessant habit of forcibly deputizing people, even when outside their realm of influence), you have shown me no evidence so far other than your own interpretation of how the events transpired. Am I not allowed the same luxury? Must I agree with your interpretation of events and only your interpretation of events?

Forcibly?

You chose to assault the Aetherblade Retreat. Ergo, you chose to be deputized.

Because forcibly is really with your consent.

Sure, from a game design it may be “forcibly” but this is ArenaNet forcibly making it so that you get deputized when doing the dungeon – you can still chose not to do the dungeon. The Lionguard aren’t the one forcing you (or your character) to do anything.

And excuse me, but I have not provided my interpretation on how the events transpired. I, myself, have only provided dialogue quotes – others may have included their interpretations while also including quotes, but I haven’t. And to claim I’m doing something I’m not is rather rude, as you were earlier in this thread by doing the very same.