Guild Wars 2

What are fractals? no I dont mean in game dungeons that we all run for ascended gear. I mean lore wise. What are they? why are they here? how did we discover them? whats the story?

Mist Wars, WVW – what is it? – again I dont mean the obvious, I mean lore wise, How did they start? why do they rage? can we give peace treaties?

Guildwars 1 has its….GuildWars in the lore, it had kritan fighting orr fighting ascalon until the char were like rawr and the old mage was like kaboom on orr.

But how did we gain access to the mist? is there some greater plane of existence beyond this? are their gods here?

whats the lore?

Okay, most of this is from what I remember. Let’s take this one by one.

What are fractals? no I dont mean in game dungeons that we all run for ascended gear. I mean lore wise. What are they? why are they here? how did we discover them? whats the story?

That’s what they’r trying to figure out in the Observatory. Apparently Fractals are bubbles of reality inside the Mists which either are history (things that were), a possible future (things that may come), or alternate realities (things which could be). Remember, the Mists are a big ball of potential which reshapes itself from time to time. The Fractals are listed as “somewhat stable pockets”. Fully stable pockets would be the Underworld, the Hall of Heroes, the Fissure of Woe, and the Eternal Battleground.

Mist Wars, WVW – what is it? – again I dont mean the obvious, I mean lore wise, How did they start? why do they rage? can we give peace treaties?

This is something of a stretch because there’s not much known for certain here. What is known is that there are four battlegrounds which every world can access along with two other alternate forms of Tyria which are very similar except for slightly different details. Again, remember that alternate realities are a possibility in the Mists.

They rage because this is, in essence, where warriors go for glory and conquest. All the people who would go to the Fissure of Woe to serve as Balthazar’s Eternals? They’re probably in the Mist Wars as they’re more entertaining. (Note, we don’t know what’s gone on in the Fissure of Woe since there’s a decreased focus on the Six Gods of humankind.)

Guildwars 1 has its….GuildWars in the lore, it had kritan fighting orr fighting ascalon until the char were like rawr and the old mage was like kaboom on orr.

A lot more complex. The Guild Wars were a nearly neverending conflict which was done between guilds registered to the three human nations: Orr, Ascalon, and Kryta. When the conflicts got heated up rather than just small skirmishes, the nations backed guilds registered to them and turned it into straight-up war with guilds being essentially semi-independent army divisions. The last of these had just burned out shortly before the Searing happened and Ascalon was smacked back to the stone age, Kryta’s royalty said “screw this I’m outta here”, and Orr blew itself up. In essence, the charr invasion ended the Guild Wars for a while, because there was no more security to actually practice it – why risk fighting each other when the charr were less than a day from putting your towns to the torch?

But how did we gain access to the mist? is there some greater plane of existence beyond this? are their gods here?

We got access to the Mists because some old wizard decided to open gateways into it, and proceeded to bend them to create a few places of stability. The Hall of Heroes came out of it, along with with semi-permanent access which was watched over by the Zaishen Order on the Battle Isles.

(The islands are now gone, by the way, but the Zaishen prevail in smaller numbers.)

this was a very fascinating read, how ever it left more questions unanswered.

What happened to the islands? Where are the Zaishen? Who was the old wizard? How is it that we are teleported into a factal dungeon and then out again – whats the main reason for going into them (again, lore wise)

Where do the gods come into all this? they helped shape tyria – does this mean with access to the mists we might get access to them?

Salacious.7358:

this was a very fascinating read, how ever it left more questions unanswered.

What happened to the islands? Where are the Zaishen? Who was the old wizard? How is it that we are teleported into a factal dungeon and then out again – whats the main reason for going into them (again, lore wise)

Where do the gods come into all this? they helped shape tyria – does this mean with access to the mists we might get access to them?

One by one:

- The Battle Isles were destroyed/lost when Orr rose and the coastline was ravaged. Since they’re islands, they were pretty much lost and the Zaishen Order relocated to Lion’s Arch. They no longer control access to the Mists that way, but it’s worth considering (only a theory!) they became the Mist Warriors.

- You could see some Zaishen operating during the “Battle for Lion’s Arch” event against the Karka, alongside some Lionguards. So they’re around, just not as omnipresent.

- I forget the name of the old one who started using the Mists as his personal sanctuary and allowed mortals into the realm of the gods. I’ll edit it in here later.

EDIT: The name of that person was “Lord Odran”. And I was slightly off – the Hall of Heroes wasn’t CREATED by his efforts, but it became accessible through them enough that it . . . changed, slightly.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lord_Odran

- Lorewise the Fractals were reached when the Asura Gate the Consortium set up malfunctioned and connected to the Observatory. I don’t know how the Observatory does what it does by moving you through Fractals because asura are very tight-lipped about experimental secrets

- The Six Gods are not the creators of the Mists, nor of Tyria . . . they live in the Mists somewhere but their realms haven’t been visited by mortals since the Six Gods began to decline in influence after the events of the Rubicon Prophecy (Guild Wars: Eye of the North).

Salacious.7358:

-snip OP-

1. The Fractals are basically “islands” of reality formed within the Mists from the Mists. Much like other realms, including the WvW and sPvP locations, are (they’re all basically the same thing). The fractals we visit are, as Tobias said, “unstable” and under study so that Demma can figure out how to control the Mists’ creation process (I think that’s her goal).
2. There’s just about nothing on the Mist War. All we’re told is that there’s an “evil invasive army” threatening Tyria. Nothing else. I, personally, suspect the outcome will end up being we’re unintentionally making ourselves a third party in a war against the Six Gods+their followers and Menzies/Dhuum+their followers. Alternatively, it may be the more popular theory of each server is an alternate dimension (we know that the GW universe is, in fact, a multiverse so the “each universe is a copy of each other” rl theory could apply here). Whatever the situation is, our side views the other two sides to be pure, unrelenting evil that must be stopped.
3. You can thank Lord Odran for modern day access into the Mists – even with his portals no longer accessible, I suspect that its because of them that we’re able to re-access the Mists. Though overall, access to the Mists seems to be done via weakening the barrier between Tyria and the Mists – which usually happens at places of mass deaths.
4. The Six Gods are not in the Mists – this has been confirmed by Priestess Rhie, the foremost priest of Grenth. No one knows where the Six Gods are. All we know is that Grenth, at least, still lives (though there’s albeit untrustworthy indications that Melandu and Lyssa may be no more – respectively, Mellaggan who is often said to be another persona of Melandru is said by a Pastkeeper to be dead; and the Risen priestesses of Lyssa (both the temple one and the High Priest in Arah) claims Lyssa’s dead, though risen are known to lie and it’s unconfirmed if Mellaggan truly is Melandru).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

-snip Tobias’ first post-

1. The Fractals is more of being copies of people, places, and things that existed in the past, present, or future (possible futures, rather). They aren’t really “alternate realities” nor are they copies of alternate realities. Though one could argue that they become little islands of alternate realities, but that’s go for each and every one rather than just certain ones.
2. The existence of other Tyrias is speculative still. As are alternate realities (all we know in that case is that there’s multiple universes).
3. Technically, the third Guild War was still ongoing at the time of the Searing.
4. Err…. Lord Odran was just an explorer. He didn’t create anything other than permanent portals into The Rift (which in turn can connect anywhere) – to our knowledge, at least. The Hall of Heroes always existed – they’re the very center of the multiverse.

Edit: I see you corrected yourself there.

Salacious.7358:

Where do the gods come into all this? they helped shape tyria – does this mean with access to the mists we might get access to them?

Again, for reiteration, the Six Gods aren’t in the Mists. We don’t know where they are, but it’s not in the Mists.

The Six Gods come into this in that their homes are in the Mists – the Underworld, Realm of Torment, and Fissure of Woe being three. They also hold a heavy influence on the Hall of Heroes and you can see GW1-style statues of Balthazar in WvW (along the forts and Stonemist Castle’s destructable walls). You can pretty much say they’re “Mistwalkers” (you know, like Planewalkers).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

-snip Tobias’ second post-

1. Except there’s no indication of the Mist Warriors being Zaishen. Which is sad to me – they’d be perfect for the role.
2. The Zaishen were always in LA, however, and there has been no change to them since the earliest of BWEs.
3. Nothing says the Six Gods didn’t create something in the Mists, technically. After all, we know they terraformed Tyria to a degree.

In GW1 Lore, the battles in the Hall of Heroes happened because after the spirits in the Hall learned to defend themselves from mortal invaders, they sought entertainment in pitting mortal groups against one another in death matches. WvW could also be something similar. A group of beings in the Mists decide to pit armies of mortals from different places against one another for entertainment. The mortals have not caught on, or are so bent on conquest, glory and rewards that they don’t care

Wild speculation: a group of Mist beings wants to invade Tyria and desires to study how Tyrians fight before the invasion. They set up the Mist Wars to observe everything about Tyrian warfare before they attack (this will, of course, be the central conflict of Guild Wars 3).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- The Six Gods are not the creators of the Mists, nor of Tyria . . . they live in the Mists somewhere but their realms haven’t been visited by mortals since the Six Gods began to decline in influence after the events of the Rubicon Prophecy (Guild Wars: Eye of the North).

Do we actually know that for sure? Because the Humans believe the Gods made Tyria, and even the Charr have legends regarding Melandru creating the world, but admit it grudgingly?

Kai Darkness.5801:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- The Six Gods are not the creators of the Mists, nor of Tyria . . . they live in the Mists somewhere but their realms haven’t been visited by mortals since the Six Gods began to decline in influence after the events of the Rubicon Prophecy (Guild Wars: Eye of the North).

Do we actually know that for sure? Because the Humans believe the Gods made Tyria, and even the Charr have legends regarding Melandru creating the world, but admit it grudgingly?

I haven’t seen a charr tell me that. I also haven’t seen anything which didn’t only say the Six brought humanity to Tyria, not that they created it . . .

This reasoning is made from things I have actually read out of the game and the “Guild Wars Manuscripts” . . . which, to be honest, were written in a time when humanity WAS more or less at the center of events taking place. Now, not so much.

JohnLShannonhouse.1820:

In GW1 Lore, the battles in the Hall of Heroes happened because after the spirits in the Hall learned to defend themselves from mortal invaders, they sought entertainment in pitting mortal groups against one another in death matches. WvW could also be something similar. A group of beings in the Mists decide to pit armies of mortals from different places against one another for entertainment. The mortals have not caught on, or are so bent on conquest, glory and rewards that they don’t care

There was no case of trickery in GW1 though. It’s not so much that the spirits opened themselves up for entertainment, but that adventurers continuously found the portals left by Odran in search for glory that the spirits eventually shrugged and went “could be fun.”

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kai Darkness.5801:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- The Six Gods are not the creators of the Mists, nor of Tyria . . . they live in the Mists somewhere but their realms haven’t been visited by mortals since the Six Gods began to decline in influence after the events of the Rubicon Prophecy (Guild Wars: Eye of the North).

Do we actually know that for sure? Because the Humans believe the Gods made Tyria, and even the Charr have legends regarding Melandru creating the world, but admit it grudgingly?

I haven’t seen a charr tell me that. I also haven’t seen anything which didn’t only say the Six brought humanity to Tyria, not that they created it . . .

This reasoning is made from things I have actually read out of the game and the “Guild Wars Manuscripts” . . . which, to be honest, were written in a time when humanity WAS more or less at the center of events taking place. Now, not so much.

@Kai: We know the Six didn’t make Tyria. It’s a proven fact now – even to humans (there are some who state that believing the Six created the world was a “misbelief” that’s been corrected). The Six Gods only terraformed (part of) the world when they arrived (according to the Orrian History Scrolls, Balthazar burned down the area within and around Orr and Melandru then made vegetation grow – they may have done the same elsewhere).

@Tobias: The Ecology of the Charr – “They knew of Melandru, and even had legends that described how she created the world.”

History of Tyria (since proven false though) – “while the gods continued to create the world around them. " (to continue creating meant that they had to be creating from before, and to create means to not be terraforming; ergo, this sentence claims the Six created Tyria).

But it is a proven fact that the Six Gods did not create Tyria – it is, as said, just a misconception created from legends and the fact the Six (or at least Melandru) terraformed the world. Both human and charr (if not more).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But it is a proven fact that the Six Gods did not create Tyria – it is, as said, just a misconception created from legends and the fact the Six (or at least Melandru) terraformed the world. Both human and charr (if not more).

The asura won’t admit it, to them the gods are just functions (albeit very complex ones) inside the grand equation that is the Eternal Alchemy. The sylvari have no concept of the Six as they came into being long after the Six stopped taking an active role. And the norn have the Spirits of the Wild, treating the Six like rather powerful Spirits as opposed to Gods. (Note, from what I’ve played with so far in norn storyline, the Spirits exist in the Mists primarily and rarely directly interact with the world.)

And . . . the charr bit about Melandru feels a little weird to me. Of the (then) five active Gods, only she gets a mention? One would think they’d be more aware of Balthazar given their lust for battle. While I have no basis for this statement, I think it’s possible that part is inaccurate. (Especially because we rather know Melandru didn’t create the world, only shaped it to make it more inhabitable.)

Did you even read what I said – or what you quoted? I just outright stated that none of the gods created the world (even bolded the word “not” before). Melandru terraformed it, as per the Orrian History Scrolls, which over time would have been changed in legends to “create” it would seem.

Though it seems I left my last statement incomplete – both human and charr (if not more) have these legends but they’re just, as said, misconceptions.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Did you even read what I said – or what you quoted? I just outright stated that none of the gods created the world (even bolded the word “not” before). Melandru terraformed it, as per the Orrian History Scrolls, which over time would have been changed in legends to “create” it would seem.

Though it seems I left my last statement incomplete – both human and charr (if not more) have these legends but they’re just, as said, misconceptions.

I read it, mostly I’m chiming in agreeing and quoting you since you listed it too. I agree, it’s left pretty clear the Gods didn’t outright create the world, they merely shaped it.

I was mostly quoting your part there concerning the three other races and what they might think. In short, two of the other three wouldn’t care and one would just shrug it off when asked about it.

Ah, usually when folks quote it’s in response to unless otherwise denoted. :P

However, I disagree with your claim that the asura would disagree with the notion of the Six Gods creating the world. Since they’re large parts of the Eternal Alchemy, they’d hold large roles and purposes in life – which could easily be creating worlds and races.

Thanks for clearing that up Konig, wasn’t aware of the orrian scrolls, was a good read