Guild Wars 2

Quote: " … These fractals are slices of the Mists, fragments of time that have been stabilized by the intrepid asura researcher Dessa. Some of these vignettes from history may be familiar to original Guild Wars players, while others will represent previously unseen events. … " – Leah Rivera

Any hard core Sci-Fi fan will flat out right challenge this idea. If any of you have ever watched TV shows: “Dr. Who”, “Voyager”, “Star Trek”, “Deep Space Nine”, ect ect. or even movies ; those people know, you cannot bleep with Time. No matter how miniscule it is.

Asuraians are turning out to be a real threat to Life and Reality itself, being the “Mad Scientist” by developer design, and really makes no sense in the game.

How in the world can a player(s) go back in time, no matter HOW stabilized it is, and participate in these events, without changing history itself?

I mean look at the flaws from what people have learned from TV Sci-Fi shows and Movies.

- A single gester can change a person’s views.
- A single idea can change the outcome of a decision.
- Males are known, sorry guys, not to be able to resist a beautiful looking female(s) and breed.
- Killing, moving, or even breathing an object could change the out come of the history.

I noticed in the video, it shows the “The Searing Era” and an “Imprisoned Titan”.

Do you not think Abaddon, as powerful as he is, would not notice a weak time portal and not take a look into the future and find out he failed; that he would not try to change history?

What in the world were you thinking, when making this dungeon?

Edit: Also please do not use the excuse, that its a different reality of another Dimension. That idea has been used and the consequences shown in Sci-Fi stories as well and there are major repercussions when you allow entry of another dimension into your dimension.

These are not the physical return to a point in time, but rather a reconstruction of a point in time within the mists. This is what the game designers seem to view things such as PvP arenas as well.

I’m under the impression that the Mists merely contain reflections of past events.

Celestina.2894:

I’m under the impression that the Mists merely contain reflections of past events.

So you are saying that that this Asuran, made a mirror (hologram), of the past for players to visit, and magically collect infusion materials?

Shadowlancer.7102:

What in the world were you think when making this dungeon?

literal answer:

that most of the player base isn’t nearly as passionate about time travel as you are, and that nostalgia is fun.

lore answer:

maybe the mists are the safety net here. you’re esentially seeing an alternate version of past events rather than altering the one in our reality?

edit since your edit to the O.P. claims my second answer is invalid I guess I stand by the first

Shadowlancer.7102:

Celestina.2894:

I’m under the impression that the Mists merely contain reflections of past events.

So you are saying that that this Asuran, made a mirror (hologram), of the past for players to visit, and magically collect infusion materials?

We are talking about the Mists here.

They’re basically the lore team’s “Do whatever we kitten well please” button.

Combine that with the Asura and you’re good to go.

From what I read the Asura merely stabilized certain areas that were already created in the mists, he/she didn’t create them his/herself.

Celestina.2894:

Shadowlancer.7102:

Celestina.2894:

I’m under the impression that the Mists merely contain reflections of past events.

So you are saying that that this Asuran, made a mirror (hologram), of the past for players to visit, and magically collect infusion materials?

We are talking about the Mists here.

They’re basically the lore team’s “Do whatever we kitten well please” button.

Combine that with the Asura and you’re good to go.

facepalm

Well… guess we will not know until the patch goes live until then to confirm my fears.

It’s not changing time if it was already predetermined that you would go back in time.

Or…….. the time stream has a degree of plasticity to allow it to right itself.

Or….. the various scifi shows are basing their plots off of flawed ideas.

I’m sorry if I’m bringing up a point from someone else, but look at the sPvP maps. Those are basically fractals of the mists also. We fight in the Battle of Khylo, a moment in time, and yet it still happens the way it does. Why should a PvE dungeon be any different

@ Mystic Starfish.2586

You and the others have your points, but for those of us that love good stories, this flaw or loop hole as most people call it, kills the lore. However Lore was never an important factor anyways with todays MMOs.

Well, not since “Everquest” days before even towards the end, started falling apart.

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ Mystic Starfish.2586

You and the others have your points, but for those of us that love good stories, this flaw or loop hole as most people call it, kills the lore. However Lore was never an important factor anyways with todays MMOs.

Well, not since “Everquest” days before even towards the end, started falling apart.

I love good stories, and this kills nothing for me.

Speak for yourself please.

@ Celestina.2894

I speak for everyone that shares the common ideas of Time Theories, this was mistake on Arenanets part. Thus you either do not fully understand the situation or you just over look the facts.

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ Celestina.2894

I speak for everyone that shares the common ideas of Time Theories, this was mistake on Arenanets part. Thus you either do not fully understand the situation or you just over look the facts.

Right now you seem to be the only one bugged by this.

Also I’d like to point out that one your examples, Doctor Who, tends to be very…………lax with even it’s own rules.

@ Celestina.2894

Indeed because I have a better understanding of the situation. It is quite normal I encounter those that are not familiar with this area, I wont claim I know all the “Time Theories”, but I do have a good sense of it all; that are confused or hostile about the ideas behind it.

I think you are having a misunderstanding. No one has stated that we are going back in time and influencing the past. The only time that has ever happened in Guild Wars was back on April Fool’s Day, and that was obviously a joke.

That being said, the description of the creations of the mists is of re-creations of points and times in history. Think of it like going to a Civil War reinactment, only people can actually kill each other, be resurrected afterwards, and have everything start over again.

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ Celestina.2894

Indeed because I have a better understanding of the situation. It is quite normal I encounter those that are not familiar with this area, I wont claim I know all the “Time Theories”, but I do have a good sense of it all; that are confused or hostile about the ideas behind it.

And they are just that, theories.

Either way it doesn’t change the fact that nothing about the fractal of the mists comes out and says time travel, instead if implies what I said in my original post, reflections.

@ Narcemus.1348

All I know is that when “Time” is used in any situation, something wrong happens. In GW2 Lore, Asuranian Technology, always seems to end in catastrophe.

However, this nothing more than a speculation thread over what a Dev posted about the Dungeon itself.

I cannot comment or further the idea itself, until I get into that dungeon, and judge it myself on the lore presented.

Even if it is time travel, it is only lore breaking if we assume one specific “theory” about time travel is correct. A-Net may have a diffrent idea about how time travel works. And it would also be supported by other scifi examples.

ie.: The time stream having a degree of plasticity is supported by fry going back in time, killing his grandpa and becoming his own grandpa in Futrama.

Going back in time being predetermined is supported by stewie creating the big bang in Family Guy and the Terminator going back in time and getting John Conner ready for Judgement Day.

So, it’s really it doesn’t become a problem until A-Net confirms we are going back in time and then goes on to confirm that any time travel will mess up the time stream.

If I may provide some enlightenment:

The Fractals of the Mists take place inside the Mists themselves, which shows you all that needs to be said about just what they are. The Mists are the proto-reality that links all time and space, the ‘primordial ooze’ that all of existence (as the people of Tyria know it) erupts from. It is, in essence, connected to every single thing in existence simultaneously; time and location have no meaning in terms of the Mists.

What the Mists also does, is not simply provide the building blocks for creation, sending things out… but it also pulls things in, creating replicas of things it encounters in the worlds made up of it. That is what the Fractals are; replicas and duplications of things that have already existed, or possibly will exist, or do exist. We already have one such example already, in the SPVP map ‘The Battle of Khylo’ (the historical Battle of Khylo took place over 300 years ago, during the Guild Wars).

Allow me to provide a quote from Arenanet themselves to clarify:

“The Mists is the oldest thing in existence, constituting the fabric of time and space that connects the multiverse together. The Mists is the proto-reality that exists between the worlds which in turn are the building blocks of reality. The Mists resonate from the worlds around them, forming bits of their own reality – islands of existence that reflect the histories of their worlds. Within the Mists are worlds, each with their own realities and histories, floating as islands in the ether. Some worlds are enormous, such as the Underworld, the home of the dead; others are simply residences for powerful spirits or deities. At the center of the Mists is the Rift, and within the Rift is the Hall of Heroes, the final resting place of powerful and virtuous souls.”

Hopefully that can provide some enlightenment!

Curse you Mecos! You just ended the thread Time travel discussions are fun. You could have waited jp

@ Mechos.5640

Wow… as crazy as it sounds and to be read, do you really want to tamper with that, much less Asuran Technology?

Edit: However that explains how the endless amount of dungeon can be formed. I am curious if Hard-Core players will see how far, the Developers went into making how much is available.

This reminds me of the “Super Mario” on NES when you take warp zones, and recently on youtube, people have found ways to go past the coding, into forbidden lost warp zones.

Meh. Comparatively? Asuran tech is fairly stable. I mean, they’ve had working AI’s (or closest to that, even if the intelligence level is somewhere in the range of an ettin) for nearly three centuries.

Reading it just makes it seem to be that the stabalized fractals are basically new lands with new resources. Nothing too scary unless they somehow destabalize and then the only danger there would be for the ones stuck in that fractal. So, not universe ending.

@ Dustfinger.9510

It doesn’t matter anymore, based on the Dungeon description and how this is set up. This is too similar to the idea of video game “Super Mario Bros.” system programing.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZuhSB64quY&feature=related

So now I have all those sound files from my child hood are coming alive again. Only this time its 3D, Better Graphics, and on an MMO.

So this is what I imagine:

- Dungeon area as the Warp zones
- Charr as the Spike Ants
- Sylvari as Piranha Plants
- Asura as Mushroom guys.
- Human as the Plumber.
- Norn as the Hammer Bros.

Be boo boop boop boop, boop… boop!

I still fail to see any of your babble
In a somewhat related note, they were going to add Chronomancers as a class in GW1, but eventually turned to making GW2.
On topic, if you really can’t stand time travel or w/e in this game, then just don’t do this one dungeon. I’m really tired of everyone complaining about every little detail about this update. Ascended gear? Well I might as well just quit now since my exotic armor sucks by 1 stat. Infusion? I don’t want to have to get new armor just because of one mechanic. Time travel? This just completely takes me out of the fantasy world
Sheesh >.<

Narcemus.1348:

These are not the physical return to a point in time, but rather a reconstruction of a point in time within the mists. This is what the game designers seem to view things such as PvP arenas as well.

This.

The Mists, as said since Prophecies, “are what binds the universe together, past, present, and future.” Within the Mists there are areas “where time moves neither forward nor back.” These two quotes coming from the Prophecies manual.

The Mists has always been known to copy and mimic. The organisms it makes mostly turn out to be demons (you GW1 players remember all those creatures in the Realm of Torment that looked like shambling piles of flesh in the form of creatures seen elsewhere in the game? That’s their origin and reason of appearance.), while the land created are solitary islands within the Mists, echos of the past.

This is also the foundation of the GW2 PvP arenas – the Battle of Khylo arena, for instance, is a recreation by the Mists of… the Battle of Khylo.

So, as said, it’s not time travel. It’s just going to a place which was created in mimicry of a historical – or futuristic – location or time.

Shadowlancer.7102:

You and the others have your points, but for those of us that love good stories, this flaw or loop hole as most people call it, kills the lore. However Lore was never an important factor anyways with todays MMOs.

Lore is a huge factor for the Guild Wars franchise. And this is only following what has existed in lore since day 1. There is no flaw, no loop hole, no error, no change to lore.

It’s not time travel like you believe.

Shadowlancer.7102:

All I know is that when “Time” is used in any situation, something wrong happens.

It’s more of “when time travel is used in any situation […]”

This isn’t time travel (again).

And the only thing the asura seem to be doing is stablizing the rather chaotic creation system of the Mists. It could prove deadly, were it to get into the wrong hands – as effectively that means taming the very core elements that creates – but this isn’t a case of time travel, so your woes are misdirected. For all we know, this Dessa figure could be a villain anyways.

@ Mystic Starfish.2586
@ Konig Des Todes.2086

Not to be rude but this thread was done a long… time ago with Mechos.5640 post.

I would suggest to you as anyone else that reads this thread, too read the whole thread first before commenting.

It was done with my post, you just didn’t understand until mechos :P

What Narcemus said. Also, I respond as I go through the thread. Otherwise I’d forget who I wanted to respond through and would have to re-read what I just read.

And, not to be rude, but I was also responding to your response to Mecha, though that was only in the last paragraph where I talked about how the “asura tech” isn’t really an issue with tampering with the Mists – at least, in of itself.

I suppose it depends on how you look at time travel. Take Dr. Who for example. Dr. Who travels back and forth in time and destroys hundreds and thousands of timelines each time he does. He even removed his Homeworld from the timestream. End Result? Nothing. No damage. Everything is fine.

There is also the GURPS Quantum proposal, which says that one doesn’t really travel through time, and more travel to points that are similiar in almost every practical way to the time that you wanted to travel to, but they can’t affect the part or the future, because they are not really that ‘time’ period, but a alternative dimension.

There are other examples, and I’m sure if I dig into the Twilight Zone episodes, and pull up about a dozen more. The simple idea, though, is that there is more than one theory of time travel, and your objection only holds weight if you subscribe to your version of Time Travel.

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ Celestina.2894

I speak for everyone that shares the common ideas of Time Theories, this was mistake on Arenanets part. Thus you either do not fully understand the situation or you just over look the facts.

You most certainly do not speak for me, mate.

Well that’s because time isn’t really a perfect line, it’s more of a wibbly wobbly timey wimey mess. :P

I’m surprised nobody has brought up what the mists reveal to us in this glimpses. As you said yourself:

Quote: " … These fractals are slices of the Mists, fragments of time that have been stabilized by the intrepid asura researcher Dessa. Some of these vignettes from history may be familiar to original Guild Wars players, while others will represent previously unseen events. … " – Leah Rivera

If some of these are glimpses of the past and future…

…am I not the only one bothered by the fact one of the fractals is the shattered remains of Rata Sum? and not too distant in the future either… that poor chicken is still in containment xD

Is the destruction of rata Sum a possible event tabled in some future expansion (That’d be awesome yet horrifying if it is).

In case you had missed that that scene is Rata Sum, a quick tour:

There was a chicken in the containment cells? I recall a Champion Rabbit but not a chicken.

And something to note about futures in Guild Wars, as proven by A Light in the Darkness and the entire Infinity Ball storylines, best summarized by the Pale Tree herself:

: “the future can change in the blink of an eye.”

That is a possible future for Rata Sum (one which apparently disturbed Dessa, and with good reason). Just as the Infinity Ball storyline glimpses a possible future where the asura PC turns evil and takes over Tyria. And in A Light in the Darkness, that’s one of the futures where Trahearne leads the Pact – possibly without the PC’s aid given the lack of his presence – which was changed as shown by the lack of the Arah Gate Guard fella.