Guild Wars 2

I was reading the timeline for what has happened in the passed several hundread years in GW2 Lore and I came accross this : Gargoyles mysteriously vanish from Ascalon. I remember seeing Gargoyles throughout the original game and it seems weird that they would just disappear like that out of no where. Could this be because of the awakening of Kralkatorrik or even a sign of what something else that may or may not happen in the Ascalon area.

Now I know that this happened a good amount of time before the current events of the game but it has had my thinking. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Gargoyles did make an appearance during Halloween, where they were minions of Mad King Thorn. However, these new gargoyles resembled Destroyers in a griffon form, quite unlike the rocky humanoid monsters found during GW1, so it’s unknown if these are true gargoyles or a different type of creature that shares the same name.

It’s the same thing with Dryders from the Shiverpeaks. Nothing has been said about them either; though i suppose they may have fled back into the Mists when Jormag came.

Personally I’d be happy if those creepy spiders with human hands never show up in GW2. shiver

Maybe foefire had something to do with it? (Gargoyles disappearing)

I think before the wild speculation continues, two things should be noted:

1) There was a thread like this a while back.

2) Gargoyles disappeared in 1185 AE – overnight, might I add. Reason unknown to all – they just up-and-vanished.

Given the date, their disappearance seems unlikely to be tied with the Foefire (happened 95 years prior to Gargoyle disappearance) or Kralkatorrik’s rise (happened 115 years after Gargolye disappearance).

There is something to note: Thorn disappeared for quite a few generations ago as well, and gargoyles returned (even if altered and momentarily) with his return. So it’s possible that gargoyles and mergoyles (both having disappeared since GW1) were more tied to Halloween than previously suspected. The change in their appearance to fiery griffons or destroyer-like rockdogs (why oh why couldn’t that rockdog appearance have been used for a third kind of destroyer!?) could be due to just a redesign between games – seeing how many creatures got such redesigns. Said redesign was likely based off of this concept art while also re-using art resources since it was just Halloween.

My mistake for questioning foefires involvment in the disappearance of gargoyles. Thank you for pointing out the time difference it seems rather unlikely given that timescale – right zipcode wrong timezone I guess.

My own take on the topic :

1) The gargoyles disappeared ‘around’ 140 years ago – ‘around’ the time of Ventari’s death.

2) The ingame item ‘fossilized gargoyle remains’ icon is reminiscent of the guildwars 1 gargoyles form. This suggests to me that the Ascalonian Gargoyles are similar in form to those we saw in guildwars 1.

The above item makes me wonder two things :
Are the fossilized gargoyle remains a post disappearance phenomena?
Why are they fossilized?

3) The Gargoyle named creatures existing in the underworlds “Realm of the Mad King” do not share the appearance of the fossilized remains. Unless there was an unexplained metamorphosis it seems unlikely there is a connection on name alone.

4) The guildwars 2 halloween event 2012 stated that it’s been over 250 years since the spirit of Thorn was last sighted. This puts the disappearance of the Gargoyles from Ascalon ‘around’ 110 years after Thorns last sighting.

In summary it appears to me given the lack of evidence and / or lore all we truly have left is wild speculation; and on that note I am blaming Ventari.

Hmm first we might ask, what are Gargoyles in the GW Universe? In most settings they are animated statues, not unlike Golems. In Tyria, however there is no reference to them ever being statues, however such exist in form of the stone guardians in Cantha.
But what are Gargoyles then? My guess is, they are related to elementals and djinns and as such come from somewhere in the Mists, meaning Ascalon was never their natural habitat to begin with. The reason why they are gone is the silence of the human gods. With the gods being more active, the veil between Tyria and the Mists was rather thin, allowing Gargoyles to easily pass it. With the gods being more distant, the veil grew thicker again. The Gargoyles in Tyria were about to be trapped , so they used their last chance to get back into the mists, the rest went extinct.
Now there are still places with a thin veil, like the godlost swamp, but this part leads directly to the Underworld, so only Underworld creatures come from there. The only part of the Underworld that seems to have Gargoyles is the Mad Realm, which only connects to Tyria around Halloween.
That’s my theory.

Stydracos.2460:

4) The guildwars 2 halloween event 2012 stated that it’s been over 250 years since the spirit of Thorn was last sighted. This puts the disappearance of the Gargoyles from Ascalon ‘around’ 110 years after Thorns last sighting.

Anet loves to summarize and it couldn’t have been over 250 years ago, given that he was present after the War in Kryta which took place in 1079 AE – GW2 happens in 1325 AE (that being the year he returned is 1325 AE) – that’s less than 250 year difference.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

But what are Gargoyles then? My guess is, they are related to elementals and djinns and as such come from somewhere in the Mists, meaning Ascalon was never their natural habitat to begin with.

I’m sorry, but where’s the correlation between elementals and djinn and the Mists?

Elementals are magically animated, well, elements. Djinn are spirits embued with elements that are trapped on the world (sometimes bound by powerful wizards) due to their greed.

Neither hold ties to the Mists.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

The reason why they are gone is the silence of the human gods. With the gods being more active, the veil between Tyria and the Mists was rather thin, allowing Gargoyles to easily pass it. With the gods being more distant, the veil grew thicker again.

This also makes no sense to me, given the fact that the Six Gods went silent in 1075 AE (literally 250 years prior to GW2) with the end of Nightfall. This means there was exactly 110 years between the silence of the gods and the gargoyles disappearance. Furthermore, the veil between the Mists and Tyria is still fairly thin – this is the reason why we have the whole situation with shades and aatxes in Godslost Swamp and at Reaper’s Gate. Furthermore, the Six Gods are not the only connection between Tyria and the Mists – you have the Spirits of the Wild, with havrouns opening portals through their respective spirits’ power, and then Koda and the Voices who are constantly intuned with the Mists – and these havrouns and Voices hold connections to the Mists other than the Underworld.

Well I’ll further elaborate my theory. Yes elementals aren’t from the mists, they come into existing in places with an above average magical power. However King Frozenwind is also an elemental and he lives in the mists, specifically the underworld. Now one can argue that he is no normal elemental, but there also frosties, the servants of dwayna, which are also elementals and happen to come from, you guessed it, the mists. And let us not forget about the candy-corn soldiers, who seem to elementals too.
Djinns are said to be some kind of elemental too, they are spirits connected to an element who usually protect places of magical power (either by their own will or being bound to it). Also notice that I said related to elementals and Gargoyles, in a way that all are creatures created by magic. The mists just happens to be a place that creates magical creatues (for example demons or Razah), that why I connected them to it.
Secondly, I think that you cna’t just go to any place in the mists from any point in Tyria. For example the Temple of Ages, only connected to the Underworld and the Fissure. Want to get to the Rift? Well you have to travel to the Tomb/Battle Isles then.
The reason we still have problems with aatxes and shades is simply that the veil to teh underworld is still thin their, because so many players traveled there. This was acknowledged in lore with the awakening of Dhuum story arc.
However as I said, no Gargoyles live in the Underworld except the special portion, the Mad Realm, which only connects to Tyria during Halloween.
So why did the Gargoyles leave so long after the silence of the gods? Because the veil became slower thicker not over night. It needed years before it was so thick that they could not return. The Gargoyles noticed it just in time and left.
Last but not least, yes the Havroun can go into the Mists, but there is always only one Havroun, with disciple, so they can barely weaken the veil much. Also there are a lot of ghost like creatures and djinns in the Far Shiverpeaks. I could see them coming from the mists, because the Norn lived there for hundreds of years communicating with the spirits.
The human gods are simply stronger than the spirits, weakening the veil more than they interact with Tyria than the spirits do. Same for Koda.

King Frozenwind isn’t a normal elemental. Elementals are not sapient. King Frozenwind very much is.

However, the fact there are elementals in the Mists does not show a relation between the two. As said, Elementals are created by concentrated magic seeping into the land, and as far as I’m aware, magic is very abundant in the Mists.

And… Frosties? You mean the snowmen? They’re not from the Mists. Snowmen are made by Tyrians. You can make some in GW1 even.

Nothing says that gargoyles are created by magic – or even hints at such either.

As to “you cna’t just go to any place in the mists from any point in Tyria.” – well, your examples are rather subjective. Firstly, from the Temple of the Ages (and Reaper’s Gate for that matter), you can only go to the Underworld and Fissure of Woe because the avatars of the gods took you. Godslost Swamp became such with portals to the Underworld due to a necromancer trying to access the Underworld specifically.

The Rift from Tombs or the Battle Isles actually goes through the Underworld first, if map names are any indication, however both portals were made by Lord Odran and if you want to get technical:

“Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places.”

You’re somewhat right that you can’t access anywhere in the Mists from just anywhere in Tyria. You have to go through the Rift first, no matter where you are. And from there you can access anywhere in the Mists.

Dhuum’s awakening has nothing to do with the thin veil between Tyria and the Mists – both the thin veil and Dhuum’s awakening are aftermath to the number of adventurers, and the former was finalized for constant portals thanks to some unknown necormancer.

There are actually several places in Tyria with a thin barrier to the Mists – only 2 holding a connection to the Six Gods (Godslost Swamp and Reaper’s Gate). In the human storyline, you can meet with Priestess Rhie to perform a ritual to make a portal to the Underworld, where you go to a weak spot in Gendarran Fields – the weak spot made by the large number of deaths. There’s also a weakspot in northern Dredgehaunt Cliffs, where jotun ruins are.

Weakening of the barrier between the Mists and Tyria is not reliant upon the Six Gods, nor does it seem to strengthen with their absence.

As I said, it’s debatable if King Frozenwind is in fact an elemental. He looks like one that’s for sure, but that could be due to limited resources. The Frosties or snowmen do appear in the mists, in the repeatable Dwayna versus Grenth quests. Yes they can be made in Tyria, via magic snow I guess but they are undoubtly connected to Dwayna.
I suspect Gargoyles to be magical creatures for 3 reasons.
A. In most settings Gargoyles are animated objects.
B. They appear in the Mists as servants of Thorn. All of Thorn’s other servants are ghosts, undead (aka animated corpses), candy-corn soldiers (who could be some kind of elemental) and since GW2 also plastic spiders (which undoubtly are animate objects). So all of his other servants are magically created (except ghost who are souls that tagged along with the king, but I don’t want to go into detail on the properties of a soul in GW lore again^^), why would the Gargoyles differ?
C. Their appereance in GW2 reminds more of elemental creatures than anything that evolved naturally. In GW1 they looked rather normal, however they were all spellcasters, most of them air elementalist. Now due to GW1’s game mechanics that might mean nothing. I mean there were plants that were monks. :P

Okay I was wrong about the reason the veil is thin, I didn’t know that about the necromancer, I should have payed more attention to the events there. But it’s not so much about the reason why the veil is thin in certain places, I for example knew about the ritual in the Gendarran fields, but only the fact that there are places with a thin veil.
Let me explain again. Human gods are very powerful beings dwelling in the mists. If they interact with humans on a regular basis they weaken the veil. The spirits of the wild and possibly the ancestor spirits of Cantha can also interact with Tyria, weakening the veil. This however is a process that takes some time. It’s not like some god says hello to his human followers for the first time and the next day the place is filled with creatures from the mists.
However if for hundreds of years a strong connection is held between mists and Tyria it eventually weakens the barrier. If that connection stops, it regrows to it’s natural strength.
It could be pretty much anyone from the mists who interacts with Tyria on a regular basis and then stops, it would be the same effect. So the barrier has nothing to do with the gods per se, they just happen to be powerful beings in the mists, who interacted a lot with Tyria, thereby weakening the veil. There absense let’s it regenerate. Places who still have a rather thin veil, were just hot spots of Tyria-Mist interaction and therefore need more time to regenerate.

And again, that’s my speculation, of course it could be completly wrong, but so far I see nothing that would completly disprove it in one swipe.

Gargoyles as a playable race would be awesome. I want to look like a stone demon with wings!