Guild Wars 2

If Grenth is the son of Dwayna and Malchor, how did Malchor sculpt Grenth’s Statue before he saw Dwayna? We know Malchor saw Grenth at some point, because Grenth’s statue is inscribed with Malchor’s thoughts of the god.

There is another thread about this floating around in this forum.

The scrolls revealing the info never said that the human sculpturer was Malchor. on the other hand imo it is very likely it was him. The moment of his death and the sequence in wich he made the scultptures are unknown. So it is possible and imo even logically he made the sculpture of Dwayna and the other gods, and then got intimate with Dwayna (or however Gods make kids) and then made a sculpture of his own sun, who was elevated to godhood after he kicked Dhuum’s butt.

The problem with the origin of this info is is that it is not really in line with more commonly accepted lore. The same text is also saying that after the gods came to tyria, Malchor made statues of them, the list is however bout Grenth and kormir (besides the other 4). I says nothing bout Abadon and Dhuum. My guess is that this is not the original text, but a text made for future generations, following the main line of the original story, but keeping defeated gods like Dhuum and Abadon out of the historybooks AND elevating Grenth and Kormir to the same divine origin as the other Gods. Any comparisson with real life religion is dangerous. But a rather famous book said that the bible wasn’t sent to us by facsimile out of heaven but is a product of humans telling very good teaching bout Jesus.

In a non rp way I think it is important to understand that these scrolls are written by arenanet employees (very likely an intern, cause imo it is too sloppy to have made it into the game). If you want to follow a role playing explaination to this, then the scrolls are made to steer the human religion of the 6 gods to a certain direction that is more accepted by the population of Tyria. (stating that all gods are equal in origin)

First off, Grenth is the son of Dwayna and a “mortal sculptor” – the race of said sculptor, let alone who it was, is left unknown.

Second of all, a father and son can exist at the same time. After all, should Malchor be the father (I agree with everyone else that it’s most likely), he did meet Dwayna before sculpting the statues.

Thirdly, the only source that specifically mentions Grenth being sculpted by Malchor was a french quotation of Malchor’s story, which also said he sculpted Kormir. So that source could be off and that Malchor sculpted Dhuum rather than Grenth. It should also be noted that the Cathedral of Silence doesn’t have a unique statue, unlike Dwayna and Balthazar (though I don’t think Melandru’s or Lyssa’s temples do either, but on this I’m not sure).

@Mercury: We know that Dwayna was the last god he sculpted. Though we also know that there was some time between Dwayna’s leaving and Malchor’s suicide, as he sculpted many more statues after she left – which turns out to be the basis of the GW1 statues of Dwayna. As he made these “imperfect” statues, he became increasingly mad and obsessive if the text on one such statue is any indication (don’t recall exact wording, but it was along the lines of “Dwayna will be mine” yada yada).

The “text” that you’re referring to has yet to be seen in game so it was likely quoting a developer on the subject, and there were obviously errors created. It was from an interview, as I said, and the site was in French. In game, the only god specifically mentioned for Malchor to have made a statue of is Dwayna – though considering Balthazar and Melandru both came from the Mists and were among the gods the entire time, they likely had statues of them too. We’re also told he made six statues – or rather, statues of all six gods. We also see a unique statue of Balthazar at his temple, as a skill point (all other temples have the altar as the skill point).

Furthermore, after Kormir rose to godhood there was no more elimination of the fallen gods from history books. Abaddon and Dhuum became more commonly known. We know this because it’s the very premise of Kormir’s worship, regarding Abaddon at least, and Dhuum is spoken about by the same priestess who spoke of Grenth being a half-god (though given the priesthood of Grenth are secret-keepers, they may have always known) and furthermore both are mentioned in the Durmand Priory library. Though I doubt that many would openly talk of them or teach of them. And Grenth being a half-god definitely wouldn’t be, since that’s the priesthood of Grenth’s most sacred secret.

@Konig, thanx for clearing up the source. I thought I heard somewhere it was mentioned in Orr, but I’m so engaged in sinking into all details I can find , I don’t have the time to level up to get there.

Like I said the text we where both refering too was most likely written by an intern (and if he/she was not I say sorry but imo you wrote lore that is below the normal standard I am used to with Arenanet’ s lore). Given the nature of this subforum I wanted to give an explaination how a lore text like this could exist in the universe of Tyria.

I’m pretty sure that the original story we were given about Malchor was one written specifically for the interview, which would mean it’s meant to be stylistic, not informative, and with “back door” options – so to speak, by which I mean that they can backpedal out of it without having the word “retcon” come up. Which generally makes it of lesser quality and certainty than in-game lore.

I’d like to add something, if I may. First, lets assume Malchor is the sculptor Dwayna has her tryst with (I feel this is reasonable). If we assume Malchor never met Dwayna before he sculpted her and they “conceived” Grenth at that time (which we are led to believe by the in game lore) then at the time Malchor might have been able to meet his son in life Grenth would still only be a half-god, since in game lore also states that where his father fell, Grenth would rise, implying he reached god-hood after his fathers death. Taking in game snippets of lore at face value, I would say that the above isn’t too far fetched…

This does not mean, however, that Malchor could not have sculpted his son’s statue. Remember, ghosts are everyday things in Tyria, and Grenth had just become essentially the god of death. It isn’t really a far stretch to imagine Malchor, proud of what his son had accomplished, taking up his old trade in the land of the dead to present him with the greatest gift he could bestow: a statue worthy of a newly formed god that could be taken to Tyria by really anyone including Grenth’s reapers and presented to his newly gathered acolytes.

Well, Konig, one problem with that I find is… the statue of Grenth in Divinity’s Reach has a quotation from Malchor on it, indicating that he -was- the one to sculpt it (or the people are the victims of quite a large hoax).

Just my poke in this here thread.

a) Malchor was human as we know via the Corrupt Dwayna statue event
b) He is also the only mortal who saw the gods (forgotten in GW1 and even freaking Glint hint that they didnt/couldnt see the human gods)
c) The whole Grenth is Dwaynas son is probably just bs that the world builders mixed up since they wanted to explain why there are no Dhuums statues on Tyria, but fudged it up by saying that Grenth lived/was born on Tyria.