Guild Wars 2

So to take away from the dozens of “Scarlet is controlled!” threads, this is something I’ve been relatively curious about for some time. And something that reveals an interesting potential revelation about trolls.

Recently, in an interview, it was disclosed by Jeff Grubb that Destroyers are created in mimicry (or mockery) of creatures.

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In GW2, we have four models. Three of which are pretty obvious what they’re made in mockery of, as they’re named after the creature: Crabs, Trolls, and Harpies. There was also the Destroyer of Life in Edge of Destiny, which was mantis-like. There’s also our favorite Megadestroyer/Destroyer of Worlds model.

Now, let’s step back in time a bit. To GW1. If we look at those models, pretty much none of them resemble living beings as players have seen them. To show the models:

Destroyer of Sinew
Destroyer of Flesh
Destroyer of Earth
Destroyer of Bone
Destroyer of Deeds
Destroyer of Hordes
Destroyer of Hope
Destroyer of Thoughts
Destroyer of Lives

Ignoring The Great Destroyer, as it is a dragon (kinda sorta). It’s interesting to note that these are all based off of actual living beings… yet none we have really seem like creatures we see… or do they?

• The Destroyer Troll model is also used for destroyers that were present 250 years ago (Obsidian Destroyer Trolls) and with a destroyer that uses GW1 naming style (Destroyer of Earth). Not only this, but it is close in resemblance to the Destroyer of Sinew – the main difference is that the Destroyer of Sinew has a tail, while the Destroyer Troll does not. Is this a hint that trolls were around, though slightly different (evolved to lack a tail), during the previous dragon rise?
• The Destroyer of Thoughts loosely resembles the appearance of mursaat – the appendages/blades on the back being akin to the black “wings” on mursaat, and the animation is the same (take that with a grain of salt for lore value).
• The Destroyer of Lives frame was also used in newly introduced plants, indicating that these destroyers were mimicries of plantlife (which would in turn explain their idle nature). This may give insight into the plantlife of the previous dragon rise.
• The Megadestroyer/Destroyer of Worlds may be a mimicry of ogres, given the size shape and body structure – or alternatively, jotun (the two races are already said to be related and both are said to be ancient, though ogres aren’t mentioned yet for being around during the previous dragon rise).

And the rest? Unknown. They all more or less use brand new animations in GW1. With the Destroyer of Thoughts appearing as something akin to a race known to have been around during the previous dragonrise, these destroyers may give insight into the life of Tyria of that time period (which, if the Priory is to be believed, would be 10,000 BE).

Others’ thoughts on the topic? Any clue what these Destroyers could be mimicries of?

Interesting.

Flesh could’ve been “cavemen” charr, while I could see Bones being grawl or kodan (I’d say the latter is likelier). Hordes and Thoughts look plantish, too, while I’d say Earth was truly just an engine of destruction created out of immaterial stone and lava – which would mean the awesome Disc of Chaos was as well. (Unless they were some mega-crustaceans living in lava instead of water.)

Hope is the most intriguing to me. Could there have been a sentient – sort of – arachnid race in Depths long ago? But then everyone who played Warcraft – the original, not WoW – would say it’s a rip-off of Nerubians.

Also, I wish trolls were still wielding their destro-axes.

Interesting topic I must say. Hehe. Lets see which dots I can connect.

My guess for the Destroyer of Earths is that it’s loosely based on Wurms.
Even tho in SE now, the Destroyer of Worlds spawns Elites also named Destroyer of Earth that use the Destroyer Troll model.

The Destroyer of Bones MIIIGHT be with a lot of fantasy, based on Dredge? The feet and hunchback give me vibe.

The Destroyer of Deeds maybe a Dryder?

The Destroyer of Flesh could be Charr, based on their legs and tail. (Maaaybe?)

The Destroyer of Hope just looks like a big spider to me.

Destroyer of Hordes could possibly be GW1 Behemoths? The Wurm-like ones?

And beside Ooze, I have no clue what the Destroyer of Lives could be.

But yeah, that’s my donation of food for thoughts.

It’s a little off but the destroyer of bones resembles ettins. I always thought Ettins aren’t exactly ..balanced. The extended arm on the destroyer could be creative freedom.

Perhaps the destroyer of Sinew could be something else. Like a copy of an ancient lizardfolk.
Unknown Lizardfolk as future playable race confirmed!!
Sorry.

@Thalador: That was my thought on Earth/Discs of Chaos – just weapons of destruction made straight from the earth.

For Hope, it reminds me most of dryders.

@ ElysianEternity: How do you get wurms from a bunch of slivers of burning rock (Earth)? And how do you get this out of this? I guess I could see how you get behemoths out of the Hordes.

@LunarNacht: Hmmm. Ettins legs don’t look like the Destroyer of Bones. I think I’d be more inclined to go with grawl from what Thalador said. Or just simply a race we don’t know about – remember, the previous dragonrise supposedly wiped out almost all life.

@Konig des Todes

Truth to be told all my assumptions are fairly loosely. And by fairly I mean take everything with a thousand maybes.
Destroyer of Earth one
http://images.wikia.com/gw/images/2/2d/Destroyer_of_Earth.jpg made me think of a wurm sticking its head out the earth.

And the Dryder/Deed one the lower body …kinda? Idk about the upper half. I didn’t wanna put “upright grub glued on a crab”, so that’s the closest that fit a minuscule bit, haha.

It could also give insight into the nature of Primordus (and the other eldar dragons) form.

The Destroyer are apearing to be living magma with a hardned crust (to fix the shape).
If they are indeed mimicking other life, it might be because they have no form on their own and are just adapting others to suit certain tasks.

If we think of Zaithan as a combination of several undead beings, around something that gives it the apearance of a dragon, hen we could apply that further.
We have seen the the Claw of Jormag, a dragon being which appears to be of being mostly of ice. We have also seen the Sons of Svanir displaying that cursed ice on their body.
If we use Zaithan as a template, then Jomag should be something a cursed ice dragon.

Primordus has been “seen” as a chrystalized “statue” or shell in the central transfer chamber, sleeping.
his minions are “living magma” walking the earth. Thanks to pressure and heat we can find chrystaline structures in vulcanic areas.
It is to asume then that Primordus body might be nothing more then a core of energy who surounds itself with lava to take shape.

However i think these theories are a bit too farfetched and we might only know more if we actually see the other dragons…

I really like the idea of guessing the older lifeforms in Tyria, seeing the Destroyer as a living fossil, though i am more intruiged where they all went. Did the stone dwarfes cut them all back, so they had to make new ones?

Furthermore, is there are limit to which form they can take on. What happens if they get their hands on something like Lupicus?

destroyer of flesh is hardly different from the destroyer of sinew.

destroyer of earth… i can see where he’s coming from with wurm. the wurm does have an end, and assuming it’s entirely exposed, it could shape itself like that. alternatively, giant armadillo? :P

destroyer of bones could be anything humanoid, really.

destroyer of deeds is a devourer, maybe.

destroyer of hordes makes me think of a wurm with legs.

destroyer of hope is obviously a spider.

i think it’s important to note that the resemblance doesn’t have to be close to real fauna to be a mockery of it. primordus could adapt the creatures to better suit his needs.

@Jaken: That theory isn’t really that far fetched. Nor is it really new. I had similar theory after reading Edge of Destiny. In the fight with Glint, Kralkatorrik turns into a literal sandstorm, and Glint via narrative describes him as a being that is “more magical than physical.”

It was thus a theory up until we saw Zhaitan, especially given the final concept art design of Zhaitan, that the Elder Dragons are really just magic made sentient, and their bodies are formed out of their element – and as such they can get “rid” of that body, separating it into crystalline sand-sized shards, or a swarm of corpses (effectively becoming like the Locusts necro elite), etc.

Zhaitan in-game though rather debunks the theory somewhat, given that while it has multiple limbs (especially heads), it doesn’t really look to be a bunch of corpses compressed together or the like.

And speaking of a Lupicus… I really want to fight a Destroyer Giganticus Lupicus when we go after Primordus…

^ i don’t see why the final version of zhaitan debunks your theory. he’s literally a bunch of mismatched limbs and tiny dragons that look hastily pasted together. he even has a humanoid arm that sticks out like a sore thumb (this forum is awfully full of puns recently, isn’kitten :P)

reference picture

The issue is the skin – which didn’t translate from the concept art (concept art is just that – concept; not canon). The skin is solid and clearly a singular mass. Which would mean the “true form” would be the “combined” rather than the “magical core/vortex” theory.

Then there’s also the fact that Zhaitan comes off through actions and corruption more of a dragon of decay than a dragon of undeath.

it’s kinda hard to get a proper look at his in-game model even with high-res screenshots, but to me, the “voltron” aspect of zhaitan is still in-game. it doesn’t necessarily looks like full bodies holding each other in dragon form, but it looks like a blob of flesh and spare limbs coated in tiny dragons.

Everytime I see Destroy of hope post Southsun all I can think of is “Karka Hatchling”

zenleto.6179:

Jeff Grubb is involved with GW2??

umm… yes? he’s kinda the main guy in terms of GW lore.

zenleto.6179:

BrunoBRS.5178:

zenleto.6179:

Jeff Grubb is involved with GW2??

umm… yes? he’s kinda the main guy in terms of GW lore.

Whats with the “umm…yes?” ?

I didn’t know and its a nice surprise.

i’m surprised someone checks the lore forum and didn’t know jeff grubb wrote the GW lore :P

It’s just a well-known fact that Ree Soesbee and Jeff Grubb – both of whom have written (or in Jeff’s case, highly edited) one of the three Guild Wars novels (per) – are the main “Narrative Continuity” (I believe the term was) writers working in ArenaNet. Both having been in the company since Guild Wars: Nightfall.

Not that it’s expected everyone to know such, but typically if you look at lore discussions long enough, you’ll typically come across seven names of Anet developers: Jeff Grubb, Ree Soesbee, Scott McGough, Angel McCoy, Matthew Medina, Bobby Stein, and John Stumme (typically from most commonly heard to least).

Hmm. On the Destroyer of Hope, I agree it closely resembles a dryder, but note that those haven’t really returned to GW2 – what’s up with that? They are somewhat similar to devourers but not completely… and the Shiverpeaks used to have a lot of them.

Sirius.4510:

Hmm. On the Destroyer of Hope, I agree it closely resembles a dryder, but note that those haven’t really returned to GW2 – what’s up with that? They are somewhat similar to devourers but not completely… and the Shiverpeaks used to have a lot of them.

I suspect dryders are just another form of demon, much like imps. If they aren’t native to Tyria, then it is understandable why there wouldn’t be a visible population of them at all times.

The Destroyer of Deeds kind of reminds me of a wood louse. Maybe there were once other crustacean-like relatives of the karka, and not all of them were durable enough to survive?

On that note, the Destroyer of Hope doesn’t necessarily have to be a spider. Those antennae very ant-like, and unlike all of the anatomically-correct spiders of gw1 and gw2 that have legs coming out of their cephalothorax, this destroyer has them all coming out of its abdomen. All of these anomalies (as well as the drop from eight legs to four) could probably be considered “artistic liberty” on Primordus’ part, but in my opinion the Destroyer of Hope is a gigantic mole cricket.

I hope it was just some sort of large insect native to the Depths, but then I just really want an insectoid race.

As for dryders- where would you expect to see them? The only overlap between the GW2 map and previous dryder territory are the ice caves in Borlis Pass and the Frost Gate. Possibly western Iron Horse Mine. That still leaves half the Frostfire population, and all of the Dark Flame’s, beyond our current reach, not to mention all of the dungeon varieties in the Far Shiverpeaks.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I hope it was just some sort of large insect native to the Depths, but then I just really want an insectoid race.

Well from the original game’s gw.dat there were mention of Arachnia who was one of the gods of an insectoid race, perhaps they will build upon that hook and develop a full race of insectoid creatures.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I hope it was just some sort of large insect native to the Depths, but then I just really want an insectoid race.

Well from the original game’s gw.dat there were mention of Arachnia who was one of the gods of an insectoid race, perhaps they will build upon that hook and develop a full race of insectoid creatures.

Which has always amused me, seeing as arachnids are not insectoid. Are they saying spiders are superior to insects? That would explain a lot…

I’d like to see something along the lines of Apocrita, but alas, ANet’s stance is “it’s been done”.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Which has always amused me, seeing as arachnids are not insectoid. Are they saying spiders are superior to insects? That would explain a lot…

I’d like to see something along the lines of Apocrita, but alas, ANet’s stance is “it’s been done”.

Perhaps Arachnia was the god the insectoids sacrificed regularly to in order to keep it appeased. Perhaps Arachnia was a destroyer god that their legends spoke of destroying the world once its feast was halted. I better stop now before I either get carried away or kick in my Arachnophobia.

Silavor.6257:

The Destroyer of Deeds kind of reminds me of a wood louse. Maybe there were once other crustacean-like relatives of the karka, and not all of them were durable enough to survive?

This reminded me of the Leviathan Claw from the Jade Sea. Same general shape.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I hope it was just some sort of large insect native to the Depths, but then I just really want an insectoid race.

Well from the original game’s gw.dat there were mention of Arachnia who was one of the gods of an insectoid race, perhaps they will build upon that hook and develop a full race of insectoid creatures.

Which has always amused me, seeing as arachnids are not insectoid. Are they saying spiders are superior to insects? That would explain a lot…

I’d like to see something along the lines of Apocrita, but alas, ANet’s stance is “it’s been done”.

Arachnia was a “spider-god” and not directly linked to the “gods of insectoid beings” that is talked about via the Harvestman’s Lair. The two may not necessarily be the same.