Guild Wars 2

(New post for ley line location theory)

Taking the five points above, using the probes and waypoints only roughly, I came to the following conclusion of ley line locations (see attachment). Notes on my thoughts:

1. I’d first like to note that the lines are approximations and I only did one-size-fits-all, I doubt that all ley lines are of equal width or depth (both in terms of how tall they are, and how deep they are). I’d also like to differentiate between a hub and a split – a hub is an intersection, and a split is where 2 ley lines become one, or vise versa.
2. Based off of the diagram of the drill in Scarlet’s End instance (or rather images/videos of such), and specifically at the Drill and Leyline Diagram dialogue, we can see that the image coming from the probes show 4 ley lines going through Lion’s Arch – initially 3 but one on each side of the 2d diagram splits off. If this is so, then Thaumanova and the Cavern of Shining Lights – which are both called smaller hubs – would have 2 or 3 lines coming off of them. In my guessing, I could only figure out 3 ley lines for LA, and 2 for the other two – and in the other two cases, that seems like the best outcome, so I think I’m just lacking for LA.
3. The Artesian Waters is said to have drawn the Six Gods to Tyria, I would argue this makes it a ley line hub larger than even Lion’s Arch – likely the biggest hub in the world, even. Despite this, given so little we know of Orr, I can only think of 3 ley lines that could go through it (unless all of Orr is one huge ley line and the Artesian Waters is just the epicenter). Placement reasons: Trahearne said the Royal Tomb is a place of power; the Altar of Glaust is said to require the specific location for the ritual; Grenth’s temple is said to have ambient magic (specifically, the Buried Archives) so I presume the other temples do too, especially since each temple (sans Balthazar’s) is a location of Risen/Personal Story importance.
4. It felt natural to assume each Elder Dragon slept on a ley line – be it one or many. Due to lack of information, I only placed one for Zhaitan, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik.
5. Like the Orrian temples, I covered the other temples with a ley line, as it felt natural for humans to have built temples over places of power if they did so with Lion’s Arch – knowingly or not. This includes: Temple of Grenth in Lornar’s Pass; Temple of Balthazar in The Falls (GW1); Temple of Lyssa in Mineral Springs (GW1); Serenity Temple in Blazeridge Steppes; and Temple of the Ages in Queensdale.
6. I covered Drascir as it seems a bit weird to build one’s capital north of the wall some centuries after the nation’s establishment – and put one of the two biggest magical schools in the continent there. Something’s up. It happened to go through a natural place of power too, and I stretched the line up to Kralkatorrik wading between the probes there. Seemed proper.
7. I placed Mrot Baru’s Waypoint on a separate ley line from the other vine-affected ones as it was affected by vines after the rest of the Brisban ones were, which felt to me like Mordremoth was spreading down a split – one that went towards Thaumanova given the direction it’d be. I extended it down to Rata Sum because in GW1, where the cube now lies is where a lot of floating rocks in Magus Stones was (making it a place of heavy magical concentration), and I furthered that through the docks (which have waypoints; formerly Arachni’s Haunt) and towards the Door of Komalie.
   • I do NOT attribute the Bloodstones in any way to ley line locations. Their placement is knowingly random. The Door of Komalie/Abaddon’s Mouth may have power though.
8. I extended the Concordia vines down through Judgment Rock as to hylek this place is of importance, and it nicely went through Droknar’s Forge/Crucible of Eternity. Extending it further led me to go through Amnoon Oasis (eh) and Augury Rock, aka the Hall of Ascension (major magical importance!).
9. I normally wouldn’t have put the Pale Tree over a ley line, but after the Mordremoth attack I wouldn’t doubt it; more importantly though there seems to be a shared tie to the Ogham Wilds water fall via the Dream, and Morgan’s Spiral holds importance magically too (risen are drawn to it), the ley line that made most sense for the latter two was the one I had stretched into Southsun Cove per the probes. I added the split to Thaumanova because of the Mrot Baru Waypoint I mentioned above being late with vines – I think that was the path taken to the Pale Tree, and we don’t see affected waypoints because lvl 1-15 area and Taimi’s device.

While I am to tired atm to actively discuss this, I will say that the waypoints have been directly related to the ley lines by the whole story, the portals pretty much function the same way, as far as teleporting goes, but are based on a much older technology (aka. they were around in EotN times, and even than they were already ‘old’), so I find it fairly safe to assume they would be even more in need of ley line support to function…

But whether or not they based on fact wasn’t the real reason to include them, it was that they are a likely candidate, similar to ghosts, or the identifiable creatures spawning in the reactor, or w/e. To see if they correspond to anything that could be called a ley line…

Anything realy, other than actual waypoints, because, well your map shows pretty clearly why using actual waypoints doesn’t help one bit…

Yet, I will say that your viewpoint on the matter does show another likely candidate to actually plot. Mainly those communing skill points. As these are things more ‘spread out’ and not as common and all present as way points…

ps. like, I included almost all the work of Psynch, so that it can be checked on whether or not it makes sense. Now f/e the reavers, they seem to only have a strong correlation with places related to the UW and a few portals, similar to the steam creatures. Now those in turn may be related to portals, which may be related to ley lines (or hubs). Yet, the highest correlation by far is ‘the underworld’, until we actually get more… This I think can only be concluded after mapping them…

Similar with the whole crystal thing, while I first linked chaos magic with Kralkatorrik, after mapping the places with crystals, and checking where the reactor crystals came from, it had nothing to do with ‘the brand’ at all… yet, the crystals themselves may well be related to the dragons, as Glint’s body turned to crystals, Zhaitans ‘blood’ did, and kralki basically makes crystals… so, is the crystal cavern location a place where ‘somebody’ gathered up the remains of all dragons from the previous awakening? and did somebody do somewhat of the same in that other place? What about other crystal remains, did a champion of the dragon die there?

So far I am not about to dismiss the portals, simply because there aren’t that many, and while the whole ley line / waypoint thing can indeed be called a bit silly, the correlation between waypoints and portals is actually quite high, esp. for their functionality as far as moving matter over distance goes… and it’s not I were to suggest that they are all directly connected, but I wouldn’t be amazed if it turned out they are all on some ley line and are connected through the hubs. Not ‘fueling’ the portals, but using the ley lines as a medium to transport matter from one place to another.

So I since we know so little I basically think that mapping any ‘non Omni present’ things that might be related to ley lines a good way to see if they were to make sense, and if not dismiss them based on the total emerging picture. Hence the skill points make a very good candidate… but if you could argue a decently strong case for moths to be drawn to ley lines, like they are to candles IRL, then I would argue to map them and see if they ‘shed some light’ on the situation … hope you get my p.o.v. on this matter

Reaction to your second post, right up on this page, I would like to refer to the ‘speculation’ ones I made, there are various lines (that you drew) that show a high correlation with ones that I did, mainly the ones related to ghosts appearing. Those do extend further up north though, perhaps giving you that extra line crossing LA, and connecting Divinity’s reach to the network, which at that point connects all known portals to what you drew

ps. I personally also think that the ‘resting places’ of the dragons will be good places to map. Not so much for them resting ‘on’ the hubs. But for them being one of the main sources for the ‘springs’ of this network. Seeing they are said to ‘bleed magic’ into the world while they sleep, it would make sense for that magic to start in a puddle, to then find the path of least resistance and form small streams, to then bundle into rivers, and feed the actual Ley Line system of Tyria… This is why I also think that there are specific effects that might well be related to each dragon, that give a tell as to which ‘river’ they are part of as they relate to each dragon. This is why f/e the ‘human ghost’ appearances seem to have a decent correlation with originating in Orr, flowing north, as being a river fuelled by Zhaitan. Which in turn might also explain the effect of the Foe Fire as it is related to an Orrian Artefact…

In the same way, while not directly linked to the crystals that Kralkatorrik produces, the effects that happen in the Reactor, and all along the line that Mordi seems to somewhat follow, do strike as an effect that has a ‘kralki’ feel to it somehow. Well that would make sense if the ‘ley lines’ that these effects take place on, would be related to where Kralki rested, and how his magic bled into the world…

Arghore.8340:

While I am to tired atm to actively discuss this, I will say that the waypoints have been directly related to the ley lines by the whole story, the portals pretty much function the same way, as far as teleporting goes, but are based on a much older technology (aka. they were around in EotN times, and even than they were already ‘old’), so I find it fairly safe to assume they would be even more in need of ley line support to function…

The problem with this is that it is in the functionality that ties waypoints to ley lines, but power source; and asura gates have a different power source.

Waypoints utilize ambient magic – thus ley lines – for power; while asura gates use power crystals (or so it is extremely heavily implied), much like golems. This allows asura gates to be placed wherever, while waypoints are a hit-or-miss in their placement/functioning set-up.

So there’s no reason to believe that asura gates utilize ley lines just due to shared function, as that’s not where the ley lines are utilized by waypoints.

Arghore.8340:

But whether or not they based on fact wasn’t the real reason to include them, it was that they are a likely candidate, similar to ghosts, or the identifiable creatures spawning in the reactor, or w/e. To see if they correspond to anything that could be called a ley line…

Ghosts form due to an immense tie to the world – or powerful spells, such as the Foefire’s case. There is no reason to tie ley lines to that.

The creatures in Thaumanova are teleported there by chaos magic, and has no hints to being tied to ley lines.

Arghore.8340:

-snip rest of first post-

You’re talking only about non-natural magical artifacts, and there’s no reason to believe ley lines, which result in ambient magic (read; magic in the ground, air, and/or water) are tied to such. Be it crystals, dragon body parts (where do you get that Zhaitan’s blood crystallizes? That’s Kralkatorrik!), portals to the Underworld, etc.

Arghore.8340:

Not ‘fueling’ the portals, but using the ley lines as a medium to transport matter from one place to another.

And yet there’s no reason to believe such, because asura gates can be retuned to go anywhere – though with significant power to be used (though the gates in the cities are stable and go to a single location in-game, they in-fact can go to multiple places; per the gatekeeper’s dialogue in DR, the Upper City asura gate can and does connect to Lion’s Arch, The Grove, Rata Sum, and Hoelbrak; in Ghosts of Ascalon we have the Rurikton gate – now permanently connected to Ebonhawke in lore – switching between Ebonhawke and Lion’s Arch, and the LA one got attuned to Ebonhawke via bribery; in Edge of Destiny, the Hoelbrak asura gate got tuned to Rata Sum. Twice.).

There really is no reason to believe that the ley lines are how people teleport across the world. Would it mean that the mesmer skills of Blink and Portal always fall on top of a ley line?

Waypoints are powered by ley lines, other teleportation devices – when we know what powers them – are not. No correlation should be assumed.

Arghore.8340:

So I since we know so little I basically think that mapping any ‘non Omni present’ things that might be related to ley lines a good way to see if they were to make sense, and if not dismiss them based on the total emerging picture. Hence the skill points make a very good candidate… but if you could argue a decently strong case for moths to be drawn to ley lines, like they are to candles IRL, then I would argue to map them and see if they ‘shed some light’ on the situation … hope you get my p.o.v. on this matter

And such things result in the utterly chaotic mess of your map that lists everything magical ever as a possibility, which gives absolutely zero hint as to the possibility of where ley lines may be and are about as helpful as the waypoints themselves.

Arghore.8340:

Reaction to your second post, right up on this page, I would like to refer to the ‘speculation’ ones I made, there are various lines (that you drew) that show a high correlation with ones that I did, mainly the ones related to ghosts appearing. Those do extend further up north though, perhaps giving you that extra line crossing LA, and connecting Divinity’s reach to the network, which at that point connects all known portals to what you drew

I do not think there is a ley line under Divinity’s Reach. Nothing hints to such.

The ghosts appear where there were concentrations of humans in life (for Foefire) or in graveyards. There is no ley line under Demetra, Aurora’s Remains, the pirate ghost JP in Harathi, or even half of the Foefire locations (such as the Decimus Stones, Rebel’s Seclusion, Grendich Courtyard, Oldgate, Langmar’s Estate, etc.). You over-exaggerate.

Furthermore, no ley line over the Crystal Desert portal to the Desolation, or the various other portals throughout the Crystal Desert; nor to the two mursaat portals in the Southern Shiverpeaks, nor Hoelbrak; nor Boreal Station (in Eye of the North). Nor Hrangmer (aka Citadel of Flame), for that matter.

Arghore.8340:

This is why f/e the ‘human ghost’ appearances seem to have a decent correlation with originating in Orr, flowing north, as being a river fuelled by Zhaitan. Which in turn might also explain the effect of the Foe Fire as it is related to an Orrian Artefact…

Then explain to me the human ghosts in Cantha, Elona, Maguuma Jungle, Crystal Desert… none of them are tied to Orr in any way. Zhaitan isn’t tied to ghosts, though he’s known to be capable of enslaving souls, anymore than Jormag is (who devours spirits).

Foefire ghosts are unique, and there are thousands of ghosts throughout GW1 that had no correltation to ambient magic nor magical artifacts. They remained in Tyria – when not enslaved by necromancy or called by ritualists – due to either not realizing they died, or by having too strong a tie to Tyria.

Arghore.8340:

In the same way, while not directly linked to the crystals that Kralkatorrik produces, the effects that happen in the Reactor, and all along the line that Mordi seems to somewhat follow, do strike as an effect that has a ‘kralki’ feel to it somehow. Well that would make sense if the ‘ley lines’ that these effects take place on, would be related to where Kralki rested, and how his magic bled into the world…

I fail to see any “Kralkatorrik” feel to… well, anything related to the lines Mordremoth followed.

Especially since Kralkatorrik is NOT tied to chaos magic (remember, the Thaumanova reactor was a mixture of chaos and dragon magic just before it exploded), despite common misconception thanks to Scarlet Briar in the Thaumanova Fractal.

If Asuran portals use power crystals, they may be ruled out as ley line hints. That may not apply to older teleports (Drascir-Nolani, Augury Rock-Dragon’s Lair-Droknar Forge, mursaat’s or titan’s), I don’t know.
I didn’t consider player teleports or those of the Crystal Desert because of their short range.

I wonder if power crystals were used back in GW1, since they built the Central Transfer Chamber next to Primordius.

@Konig, there is no need to lash out, I know you longer than today, and I know your frustration on this matter, and I can relate even… But really, I have no intention or what so ever to be a lightning conductor for your frustration… I am more then happy to discuss things with a certain level of personal respect for each others viewpoints, but driving other people’s opinions in the ground and calling their hard work a chaotic mess, do not form a basis for any respectful discussion… I respect your opinion and put great value on your knowledge, but this thread is supposed to be a fun exercise to see if we could localize ley lines in a mutual effort, not an open invitation for quote wars…

Anyways, I will pick out some points you bring up:
- On waypoints and portals:
We do not know ‘if’ waypoints also need the ley lines to transport matter over distance. Yes, the portals can be re-aligned, but as far as I know, there has to be a portal on the other side as a receiver, meaning that it’s quite possible that this receiver also has to be connected to the same ley line network. Any lack of current evidence doesn’t mean that an assumption is false.

Also, you yourself used ‘portals to other realms’ as an indicator for high ambient magic, while a ‘naturally occurring’ portal (while we do not know if they are, we can’t exactly dig there) to another realm isn’t directly a portal to another place in the same world, it’s still simply a portal to another location in the Mists. Aka, portals are somewhat portals, if you view them as a way to transfer matter through the mist to another location in the mist (which could be within the same realm, or cross realm).

On Mesmer skills, like I said in my opening statement, I can relate to your frustration on this matter, but ‘it is what it is’. Mesmer skills are Mesmer skills, and ley line utilizing portals and/or way points are what they are… from my pov.

- On the creatures in Thaumanova reactor,
if you plot the creatures though, as in where they exist in the open world, I myself agree somewhat with Psynch that it is rather an unlikely coincidence that these lie on roughly the same route that Mordremoth is taking now, and you yourself say this route is the route of a ley line, only you use the cavern system as a hint for it. Now seeing my opening statement, I wont be throwing a “well we know there are tons of underground cavern systems underneath Tyria, so there is no reason to assume Mordremoth has to follow the ley line one”, as that leads this exercise nowhere.

No I think it’s ANet showing us that they had ley lines ‘in thought’ for a long time, and used it to determine which creatures were likely to be ported into the Thaumanova reactor, and now they use the Mordremoth route to further point at it…

- On ghosts,
Yes, the ascalonian ghosts are different from other ghosts, but they ‘were’ caused by an Orrian artefact, and Orr happens to be the location where Zaithan has been bleeding his undeath magic for 9000y prior to humans settling there… so there is a likely connection there.

Again, I can relate to your frustration even more so in relation to the implications for GW1 (I just… I just don’t want to go there, plz, I’m going for a positive vibe here in regards to a ‘community effort’ to figure out ley lines as a fun exercise). But if you were to actually go and map all the ghosts, like I did, and link the ones that can not be directly linked to the foe fire, a specific item, being ‘animal spirits’ or ‘being non human’, you are left with a very specific route going from Orr along side the coast, across LA, splitting off towards Divinity and into Hinterlands.

The only exception are the ghosts in Brisbane, which may or may not be related, seeing it’s impossible to check beyond the map if the actual phenomenon continues.

- On Chaos Magic,
Pointing at chaos magic is all fine ‘but’ from the overall story of magic there has to be a source for this magic. With which I have to point at:
1. During the last rise, all ‘free’ magic was put into the original ‘bloodstone’.
2. Any other magic was consumed by the dragons, and ‘bled out’ during their slumber.
3. Now which source is there for the Chaos magic, aka. which dragon bleeds chaos magic? Or which other source is there for chaos magic?

Just one thing I want to point out, seems you forgot

Furthermore, no ley line over the Crystal Desert portal to the Desolation, or the various other portals throughout the Crystal Desert; nor to the two mursaat portals in the Southern Shiverpeaks, nor Hoelbrak; nor Boreal Station (in Eye of the North). Nor Hrangmer (aka Citadel of Flame), for that matter.

…“in ‘my’ (as in you Konig) opinion”, or if you will, “based upon what I took into account, for my analysis.”

This mainly to point out that while your knowledge on lore is far exceeding the general public, that doesn’t mean that ‘what Konig says is always absolute truth and he is always right’. There are so many unknowns still that it’s really anyone’s guess, hence I think looking at stuff as objective as possible is the best way to look at things, so again I think your hint towards communing skill points is a very interesting angle, As well as some other location in lore that value high on ‘ambient’ magic…

But as we do not know if f/e how far these things are underground has any implication for their ‘strenght’ on the surface, we can’t simply conclude that where there is no ambient magic there are no ley lines. The other way around works though, with a ‘may’ for as far as artefacts come into play! Still a very nice though train.

Another note, Personally, I don’t think the detectors would be any help, seeing that if you take the distance between them, and divide it in halve, to then use this as a radius for every detector, you pretty much cover the whole map. They have the same ‘problem’ as using the waypoints themselves, for as far as us trying to find ley lines. Obviously scarlet had means to pinpoint them based upon the data they provided…

Lastly, I also have a question:
- I saw various points put ‘off map’, where did you get those from? are these from overlaying other maps? (if so do you have a source), are these from fractals? or from GW1?

I wasn’t lashing out. My entire post was basically that of saying:

You are taking anything that is semi-magical, even with known origins or power, and saying “ley line!” That results in a mapped out series of points that is less helpful than the waypoints, and you may as well call it a ley ocean. And it’s even worse storytelling than what we currently have in the game.

Dude, I wasn’t saying ‘ley line!’ … actually, I am trying to be as meticulous as possible and name my maps ‘speculation’ and ‘base_line’ to point out where I make general assumptions based upon correlating occurrences, and the maps where the data is just presented ‘as is’ so that it can be evaluated based upon any other knowledge or data, or used for other people to add their data and/or assumptions…

I’ll refrain from any reaction, besides this one, on the subjective conclusions you draw based upon your frustration.

Okay, okay, “potential ley line”. Same difference, really. My point – that marking all these things makes the marking of the points pointless since it becomes as unreliable as waypoints – remains unchanged.

If you don’t limit what your using to mark your parameters somehow then you’ll end up with parameters so large that you include everything. You HAVE to stop at some point, otherwise you may as well throw a paint can over the map of Tyria and claim what got colored is a ley line (which is effectively what the waypoints do).

To respond to specific points you made earlier, as I was on my phone previously:

We do not know ‘if’ waypoints also need the ley lines to transport matter over distance. Yes, the portals can be re-aligned, but as far as I know, there has to be a portal on the other side as a receiver, meaning that it’s quite possible that this receiver also has to be connected to the same ley line network. Any lack of current evidence doesn’t mean that an assumption is false.

Asura synergetics storyline, asuran weather changer storyline, Professor Portmatt’s Lab jumping puzzle, and the experimental teleporter in Crucible of Eternity (path ending with the Evolved Husk) all include asuran teleportation devices that don’t require a receiving gate. The asura gates require receiving ends due to how they’re built – and no one bothered to try to build a new means for such, until recently.

Receptors are not required for asura teleportation magitechnology.

Arghore.8340:

Also, you yourself used ‘portals to other realms’ as an indicator for high ambient magic

Actually, I didn’t. Hrangmer, Tomb of the Primeval Kings, etc. I didn’t count. I counted the Door of Komalie solely because it is said that Abaddon’s Mouth was highly magical – there doesn’t need to be a tie, though it certainly can be that there is one (in which case, there’d be no ley line going to the Ring of Fire outright). Godslost Swamp having portals to the Underworld is outright known to be due to our own actions in GW1 – no ambient magic involved. I included it because of the temple itself being the oldest temple for Grenth in all of Kryta. Then the stone circle in Varajar Fells is also said to be a place of powerful ambient magic – I didn’t include it due to the veil to the Mists being weak there. Drascir I included because of it being a capital (could have been built over a place of power like Lion’s Arch and Arah) and because of the magical school.

In other words, any placement of a portal to the Mists being over a ley line was pure coincidence.

Arghore.8340:

if you plot the creatures though, as in where they exist in the open world, I myself agree somewhat with Psynch that it is rather an unlikely coincidence that these lie on roughly the same route that Mordremoth is taking now, and you yourself say this route is the route of a ley line, only you use the cavern system as a hint for it. Now seeing my opening statement, I wont be throwing a “well we know there are tons of underground cavern systems underneath Tyria, so there is no reason to assume Mordremoth has to follow the ley line one”, as that leads this exercise nowhere.

The underground cavern systems is – according to Scarlet – due to the ley lines. A lot of the creatures in Thaumanova come from places that could be near the vines… or completely elsewhere. They’re that wide-spanning, and considering how much ground the vines cover… it’s not surprising in the least that such an overlap would occur.

Arghore.8340:

Yes, the ascalonian ghosts are different from other ghosts, but they ‘were’ caused by an Orrian artefact, and Orr happens to be the location where Zaithan has been bleeding his undeath magic for 9000y prior to humans settling there… so there is a likely connection there.

Except that magic from the Elder Dragons while they’re hibernating has no known affiliation with types. It’s just like the ley line magic, or ambient magic – typeless, raw, magic.

If this wasn’t so, then there wouldn’t even be raw magic.

Arghore.8340:

But if you were to actually go and map all the ghosts, like I did, and link the ones that can not be directly linked to the foe fire, a specific item, being ‘animal spirits’ or ‘being non human’, you are left with a very specific route going from Orr along side the coast, across LA, splitting off towards Divinity and into Hinterlands.

The only exception are the ghosts in Brisbane, which may or may not be related, seeing it’s impossible to check beyond the map if the actual phenomenon continues.

If you go and exclude all ghosts but in three locations, and then draw a line from them to an location of your choice, then of course you will have a line from said location to the three ghost locations. That doesn’t create much of a foundation to stand on.

You don’t answer: Why do you link Orr to ghosts, when Orr is ghostless? “Because Zhaitan” is not an answer, as he’s not about control over ghosts – no more than the spirit-consuming Jormag.

Arghore.8340:

Pointing at chaos magic is all fine ‘but’ from the overall story of magic there has to be a source for this magic. With which I have to point at:
1. During the last rise, all ‘free’ magic was put into the original ‘bloodstone’.
2. Any other magic was consumed by the dragons, and ‘bled out’ during their slumber.
3. Now which source is there for the Chaos magic, aka. which dragon bleeds chaos magic? Or which other source is there for chaos magic?

Chaos magic is the type of magic mesmers use. Mesmers’ magic came from the Bloodstone. Elder Dragons don’t bleed out a type of magic.

Arghore.8340:

Lastly, I also have a question:
- I saw various points put ‘off map’, where did you get those from? are these from overlaying other maps? (if so do you have a source), are these from fractals? or from GW1?

All purple points are Probes – there were two maps in Scarlet’s End instance during The Battle for Lion’s Arch which focused on Far Shiverpeaks/Blood Legion Homelands, and northern/central Kryta which showed probe locations not seen in-game.

Yellow/Orange locations are places of power, if they’re over places not seen in GW2 then they’re from GW1 lore.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Why do you link Orr to ghosts, when Orr is ghostless?

There is Romke and his crew, but they are probably tied to the map of the spirits of the wild or another magic that simply doesn’t let them go. I wouldn’t tie them to ley lines. I think their cause is a rampaging powerful entity.

Linking Orr to the Foefire might be right or not. Rytlock used an old orrian spell which was so old that there is no doubt (which is a very vague statement).

- Ok, so I acknowledge that maybe not all things I mapped can be related to ley lines, but that was also part of the reason to map them. Also, I based the map on various things Psynch mentioned, and I mapped them more specifically (in the actual spot on a bigger map) to cross check whether or not picking them made sense… In which case f/e the Reavers seem less likely if you see where they are placed

Second, I mapped various more general ‘big story’ items, or Bosses, just to see if they could be tied in somehow, seeing how Mordremoth is tied in the the Ley Line story, perhaps there was something to conclude from other Dragon activity… f/e if you look at location where Destroyers turn up, and where mordremoth’s vines pass nearby. But like, if I map mordremoth vines, and then destroyers, then not mapping at least the other Champions is a biased action… not mapping Risen can be defended since they are all over the place (though I do intend to at least show on which map_section they are present). All the branded just show up in the brand, and all Jormag corrupted in the shiver peaks (so ‘by assuming at least some knowledge’ on the part of the map observer, they are all mapped…

- I saw I didn’t addres your question ‘why do you say ’zhaitan’ crystals’, well, that is because of the reward for the explorable dungeon. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shard_of_Zhaitan … and all the other ‘shards’ http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shard being largely crystalline. Now if you check my map I made an icon for them with a ? in them. So it’s more of a ‘hey look it is almost implied through ’shard of zhaitan’, that he turned to crystal (or part of him anyways)‘, just like happened to Glint (although being a minion of the Crystal dragon, does make it possible her’s had another reason).

So some things are from other sources, and they are mapped more specifically to check if or if not, they are related. Other things are mapped (destroyers f/e) to try and present unbiased information, aka. if you map one thing because of X, you should map all things related to X or you are just presenting biased information…

- On portal tech
So ok, there is tech that makes it possible to portal without an end portal (actually, the appearance of the Titans in GW1 pretty much already showed no ‘physical end portal’ was required (as just alluded to me) …

Still though, the waypoints are said to function ‘better’ when near ley lines, and as far as I know functioning of them has nothing to do with ‘powering’ them? (btw. this came from one of your earlier responses) Or at least, it be nice to know where you drew the conclusion that they use ley line power? I only picked up they ‘functioned’ better … aka. the portal has less ‘side effects’, so is more ‘stable’ and offers more ‘frequent portal’ activity. Nothing really alluded me to assume they use ambient magic to ‘power’ them.

Because in that case, what powers the random placed portals? surely they can’t use ley line magic. Because in that case they wouldn’t be random placed. ( though arguably, part of this might be due to picking a certain thing to explain certain ‘things’ in game, that then work on a shallow level to provide an answer, but when looking deeper actually open a whole ‘can a wurms’ the size of those found in 2 locations in Tyria )

Still remains though, the portal tech is old, through waypoints we know that at least some aspect of the whole portal’ing technology works better when close to ley lines, so I still ‘personally’ find that enough to at least include them in preliminary research. You are of the opinion they are not related, well, then that will turn out to be the case as this research moves on… It’s not that like 7 portals will make that much of a difference, when we try and identify which things help and which don’t.

‘->’ and while you argue that some of your ley lines going over portals to the mists (or other excisting portals) was a mere coincidence, seeing you didn’t pick those locations for their portals, but due to high ambient magic. The same ambient magic that makes waypoints function better. One could argue that it may not be such a ‘coincidence’…

- On Thaumanova Creatures,
While I only mapped a couple, mentioned by Psynch, I did map all the possible location for them (also non veteran), for as far as they were mentioned on the Wiki. My intention is to also ‘map’ all the other creatures, for at least the ‘map sections’ they occur in. Not so much to see where they ‘might’ have come from, but to see if the proposed line between crystal caverns and the reactor, at least goes through area’s in which these creatures reside. But as you plotted your map, you must have come to see that it becomes quite tedious, and having mapped what I already did, I sort of need(ed) a break…

- On magic.
Where do you get that magic bled from the dragons is ‘colorless’, and not related to the dragons? IS there even ‘raw’ magic in Tyria? In another thread I tried to link all the kinds of magic to all the dragons, quite crudely I will add, and what I was left with was ‘white’ monk aspects of magic, which might well be linked to the centre of the EA-vision (EA – eternal alchemy), and ‘shadow magic’ which happens to mostly link to the UW creatures in GW2. With which I am basically saying that all the ‘magic types’ in GW1 have in some way transferred over into GW2 – and my personal view on the vision is that it is the GW-power chart/wheel, similar to the MtG power chart/wheel.

If you take that view, then all magic has to be of a certain type, because there is no ‘colorless’ magic in that chart. We also do not know if dragons feed only on some type of artefact… Do they eat infused magical artefacts of their own type? or of some opposing type? So really, unless you have some data that makes it clear there is ‘raw’ or ‘colorless’ magic out there, instead of magic always being of one specific type, then please do share… I will say that I find it possible that magic can get ‘flipped’, so basically if zhaitan would ‘eats’ f/e chaos magic, it would turn to ‘undeath magic’, as some sort of balancing mechanism.

Or, perhaps, if you were to combine all magics it would turn into ‘raw’ magic, similar to how light is made up of ‘all colours of light’. Which might be what happens in CoE… And in the Thaumanova reactor, and the reason perhaps it didn’t go well there, only 4 types of magic were combined…

- On ghosts,
Erhm sure, even if you map all the ‘ambient magic’ locations you still do not know how to connect them. If you exclude 3 due to them being linked to an artefact instead of ambient magic, then your whole network changes. And there are 7 location with ghosts in the Orr maps…

- On mesmers,
While we call it ‘chaos’ magic, to me it is of yet unclear if it actually is, though yes, I will say that linking chaos magic to Kralkatorrik, solely on colour alone is incredible weak! Still though, crystals may well be called the highest ‘organised’ structure. And thus Chaos for being the highest ‘unordered’, Crystals are the highest ‘ordered’.

Then again, that would sort of mean that kralki may bleed the opposite of his magic, which would then make for the assumption that all might do so (or at least a couple), for which I haven’t actually found any evidence.

Also, chaos magic, is still one of the classifications of the ‘old schools’, which used/ identified 4 types of magic. Well based upon the difference between thaumanova and CoE, as well as the vision. We may have to conclude that there are at least 6 (possibly 7) types of magic on Tyria. If indeed one of them is ‘chaos’, then it’s still Kralki’s crystal that is one of the highest possible sources for it…

- Tnx for the clarification, I will say again that I really like your angle, and when I continue with my map I am sure to go through all of them and map them accordingly.

Arghore.8340:

I saw I didn’t addres your question ‘why do you say ’zhaitan’ crystals’, well, that is because of the reward for the explorable dungeon. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shard_of_Zhaitan … and all the other ‘shards’ http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shard being largely crystalline. Now if you check my map I made an icon for them with a ? in them. So it’s more of a ‘hey look it is almost implied through ’shard of zhaitan’, that he turned to crystal (or part of him anyways)‘, just like happened to Glint (although being a minion of the Crystal dragon, does make it possible her’s had another reason).

The only crystal tied to Zhaitan is the Dragon Crystal which is no different than any other arcane crystal except that it is full of Zhaitan’s corruption (arguably, the Bloodstone shards recovered during Arah Seer path is the same). The Shards of Zhaitan don’t appear or seem in any manner to be crystalline to me, and the term “shard” can be used to mean a scale in zoologoy (source) which I think is the definition being used here. E.g., “Shard of Zhaitan” is just a better way of saying “Scale of Zhaitan” or “Piece of Zhaitan’s Skin.”

Glint is crystalline because she was a minion of Kralkatorrik and no more – same for all other Branded.

Arghore.8340:

Still though, the waypoints are said to function ‘better’ when near ley lines, and as far as I know functioning of them has nothing to do with ‘powering’ them? (btw. this came from one of your earlier responses) Or at least, it be nice to know where you drew the conclusion that they use ley line power? I only picked up they ‘functioned’ better … aka. the portal has less ‘side effects’, so is more ‘stable’ and offers more ‘frequent portal’ activity. Nothing really alluded me to assume they use ambient magic to ‘power’ them.

The source for the knowledge of being powered by ley lines is this. To quote the line in question:

“Some waypoints gradually fail over time, while others thrive. Current theories tie the failing waypoints to terrain that hinders the flow of energies.”

And then backed by Taimi’s commentary in Discovering Scarlet’s Breakthrough and following Taimi-related instances (The Waypoint Conundrum and Recalibrating the Waypoints ) and how Mordremoth was attacking waypoints.

There are many particular lines, but there’s one that just downright proves that waypoints are powered by ley lines (journal entry for Recalibrating the Waypoints):

Taimi’s Waypoint Recalibration Device was successful in retuning the waypoints, making them more efficient by using less ley line magic to operate.

Waypoints use ley line magic to operate; the failure of a waypoint is caused by a lack of ley line magic flow.

Arghore.8340:

Because in that case, what powers the random placed portals?

They likely have power sources at the source of the teleportation device (the gun in asura Synergetics, etc.).

Arghore.8340:

It’s not that like 7 portals will make that much of a difference, when we try and identify which things help and which don’t.

Seven? There’s far more in just asura gates, let alone other portal technologies/magic than just seven.

Arghore.8340:

‘->’ and while you argue that some of your ley lines going over portals to the mists (or other excisting portals) was a mere coincidence, seeing you didn’t pick those locations for their portals, but due to high ambient magic. The same ambient magic that makes waypoints function better. One could argue that it may not be such a ‘coincidence’…

Only potentially and only where such portals don’t have a known power source or situation (e.g., non asura gates).

And thinking on it more, I should remove the ley lines going to the Ring of Fire. The Door of Komalie is powered by souls and Bloodstone, and the heavy twisting magic is likely caused by the portal to the Realm of Torment. Thus no reason to believe ambient magic there.

The map is very nice but a map is two dimensional. Ley lines will almost certainly travel in 3 dimensions. They could run through air and ocean just as easily as underground.

The definitions thus far given to the ley line network is that it is, solely, underground. There’s no reason to believe they’d suddenly run through the air or water, given that the ley lines are the “paths of least resistance” for magic to move through – if they went through the air, there’d be no resistance for magical movement (unless there’s some invisible magnetic field-like effect we have absolutely zero indication, implication, or knowledge of) and thus the magic would simply seep throughout the world – same with going through the ocean.

While it is true they’d be moving in three dimensions, I do not think they breach the surface (of the ground). If they do, I suspect effects similar to what we see at Thaumanova’s center – a pillar of light, and the enlarged immediate area being soaked in magical “radiation”. Incidentally enough, Ascalon City has a similar effect thanks to the Foefire, though the pillar of light there is supposedly taking the shape of a giant flaming sword per Ghosts of Ascalon (though I don’t think this is how it appears in-game).

- On Zhaitan shards, hmk, seeing I’m non English native I didn’t know ‘shard’ in the meaning you pointed out. While I do know shard can be ‘a piece’, it seems to generally (in GW2) be used for a shard as in ‘a pointy bit of crystalline material’. But with that explanation you pointed out, there isn’t really anything to definitively say so in regards to the Shards of Zhaitan … Guess one can learn something new just about every day…

- On Waypoints/ley lines
That quoted line doesn’t say that they are ‘powered by’, but merely that they function better. Basically like I argued, it could mean that they use the ley lines to move matter over distance, and thus ‘function better’ when they are nearer to a ley line.

While I can see how that line from ‘recalibrating ley lines’ can be read as ‘using’ = ‘powered by’. In the actual story instance she (Taimi) explains how her invention works, the way points are recalibrated to use a lower frequency to operate, so that the way points do not agitate the ley lines network as much, and thus don’t stand out (or draw attention) so much to Mordremoth.

There is a strong analogy with how Radio waves function, be it at short wave (high frequency) and long wave (low frequency) but both are used to transfer sound over distance… This may also be why I myself think that the ley lines are used to transfer matter over distance, similar to how radio uses radio waves to transfer sound over distance, with the obvious difference that Radio uses the air, while Way Points use the Ley Lines as a medium… so what her calibration device did was to set the way points using a different frequency (say from ultra short to medium wave lengths) while maintaining operational parameters.

That the actual quest log doesn’t reflect this detail and uses the words ‘uses less ley line energy’, to me is more of a reflection of how work is divided up inside Anet, and how details in communication can make a big difference! To me though, the actual course of events and in-game dialog, have a precedence over anything mention in a quest log…

Not saying that your stance on it is impossible or flawed, just that there are more ways to look at this, and that I see no reason (yet) to assume your stance is the only correct way…

- On Asuran gates.
Ok, so there are 11 fixed locations for working Asuran gates, most of which are in capitals, and even though there may be more in said capital, I consider them to be on the same ley line ‘node’. Unless of course you know of more Asuran gates then the ones I mapped out, in which case I would love to know about them…

- On door of Komalie
You may want to differ in what powers the portal and what keeps it shut ?!!? … from what I got from that lore from GW1 is that the Door of Komalie was an actual naturally occurring portal (or possibly one that Abaddon tried to open from the realm of torment, similar to the portals used to release the Titans), and the soul batteries were used to keep that door shut…

Now true, if it turns out that portals can just be made to go everywhere, and do not specifically need ley lines to function or an end portal (which from my point of view isn’t whats being conveyed in GW2, although way points and portals may still be different from each other), then indeed, there is no distinct reason to assume that the Door of Komalie was using ley line energy to be formed… it was keeping it shut that used the bloodstone/soul combination though…

Arghore.8340:

Ok, so there are 11 fixed locations for working Asuran gates, most of which are in capitals, and even though there may be more in said capital, I consider them to be on the same ley line ‘node’. Unless of course you know of more Asuran gates then the ones I mapped out, in which case I would love to know about them…

Asura gates are not fixed in their destinations. They can be recalibrated to any other gate – they’re not in-game simply for mechanical purposes with how zone portal barriers work (can only have a single destination). Lorewise, the DR gates can and are redirected to LA, Ebonhawke, Rata Sum, The Grove, and Hoelbrak (Black Citadel clearly excluded due to hostility); as such, the respective situation must occur to (that the Grove gate must be retuneable to Divinity’s Reach, for example). Similarly, as I said, we know that Hoelbrak’s gate can be retuned to go to Rata Sum directly (thus it can go to three known locations: DR, Rata Sum, and LA). The limitations we players see is purely mechanic – just like how asura gate travel is free for us, but costs money in lore to use them. Ebonhawke’s gate can also be retuned to go straight to Lion’s Arch – if not elsewhere.

The entire point of the Black Citadel gate being on a suspended bridge rigged with explosives is because the gates can be retuned anywhere, and as such the charr can never be fully certain – as they rely on the asura gatekeeper’s word – where the gate leads to, or if an army will begin pouring through that gate (an army couldn’t do such through the free city of Lion’s Arch).

So by your theory, you’d need a direct ley line from DR to each of those locations, and from Hoelbrak to each as well.

Arghore.8340:

- On door of Komalie
You may want to differ in what powers the portal and what keeps it shut ?!!? … from what I got from that lore from GW1 is that the Door of Komalie was an actual naturally occurring portal (or possibly one that Abaddon tried to open from the realm of torment, similar to the portals used to release the Titans), and the soul batteries were used to keep that door shut…

Now true, if it turns out that portals can just be made to go everywhere, and do not specifically need ley lines to function or an end portal (which from my point of view isn’t whats being conveyed in GW2, although way points and portals may still be different from each other), then indeed, there is no distinct reason to assume that the Door of Komalie was using ley line energy to be formed… it was keeping it shut that used the bloodstone/soul combination though…

The Door of Komalie isn’t the portal – as far as we know – but the structures around it. Hence “opening the door” and all. The Door itself is powered by souls within Soul Batteries, which are transferred into such via Bloodstones.

The portal itself appears to be a rip in time and space, and seems to be open indefinitely by its own accord. There’s no real proof for this or if it even is powered (and if so by what). Just like in Godslost Swamp, though, it seems that if you make a big enough tear between the barriers of Tyria and the Mists, you cannot (easily?) repair it – only block it (the purpose of the Door).

With fixed I mean screwed to the ground in a certain location (being capitals, and all order headquarters) … and ‘no’ the ley line network would not have to work through ‘a direct’ connection, that’s the thing in a network, you can transfer in nodes (ley line hubs) to another ley line in order to reach your destination.

So, as an example, say a ley line moves from Orr along the coast passing through LA, and onto Divinity. Another ley line moves from Dry Top through LA, up north to the Central TF, chamber. Another moves from the north through the central transfer chamber down to Ebonhawk… So to get from Divinity to Ebon Hawk, you would go from Divinity to LA on one Ley Lines, there pass over to another ley line going to CTC, there you pass onto another Ley Line down to Ebonhawk.

- on the door…
Hmm, ok, I get what you are saying, there is a portal there (which may as well be called Vulcano Portal) which is ‘closed’ by putting a door in front of it, and it’s that door that is called the door of Komalie. Hmm, guess then that could be so as well, I always saw the portal as being called ‘the door of komalie’ and the soul batteries the means to keep it closed, aka, the lock…

Either way though, I can see why ‘in your train of thought’ it would be a reason to skip that location from the network. Given of course that this portal activity has nothing to do with ley lines… which to me isn’t as clear as it is to you