Guild Wars 2

In the Gw2 Wiki under Elder Dragon, if you scroll down to the Trivia, you will find this

“Dragons were not always the main antagonists of Guild Wars 2. According to The Making of Guild Wars 2 book, original drafts for story included demons and angelic beings descending to the world to judge it.”

Can anyone elaborate what they know?

Now I’m curious and want to know if this will end up being part of the game after we kill the remaining elder dragons.

Not a lot. A GW-focused magazine in 2007 had concept art of the ‘Tannek’, which were originally designed as, essentially, classical balrog-style demons with a GW twist. Over a few iterations they became the Destroyers.

There are also indications that angelic beings exist – all the statues of winged women, and the Nightfall manual suggests that harpies are essentially fallen angels.

Apart from that, I don’t think there’s a lot known. Mind you, I don’t have a copy of that book (being in Australia makes getting hardcopies of some things more difficult).

The line in the book is "Dragons weren’t always the mechanism for the grand struggle. Grubb shares some early considerations: “Demons were on the table. We had another pitch that involved angelic beings coming down to judge everything. These didn’t fit. Dragons had a good, strong base.”"

Beyond the demons established back in Nightfall and what draxynnic mentioned on angelic beings, angels and demons are little more than a story concept that wasn’t chosen in the end.

Wouldn’t mind a little Darksiders themed addon, though. Maybe on another continent?
I fear Anet’s just too understaffed at the moment for anything besides their main story line.

draxynnic.3719:

Not a lot. A GW-focused magazine in 2007 had concept art of the ‘Tannek’, which were originally designed as, essentially, classical balrog-style demons with a GW twist. Over a few iterations they became the Destroyers.

There are also indications that angelic beings exist – all the statues of winged women, and the Nightfall manual suggests that harpies are essentially fallen angels.

Apart from that, I don’t think there’s a lot known. Mind you, I don’t have a copy of that book (being in Australia makes getting hardcopies of some things more difficult).

Oh great and here I am about to finish my Harpy Slayer Archievment. Hope they don’t hold a grudge…

Tbh, I think they now regret that they went with massive dragons. Sounds cool on paper, but in practice it’s shallow, cliche plot and extremaly limitating when it comes to combat.

We have already slain arguably the second most interesting Elder Dragon (after DSD) – of Mind – and they wasted it’s potential. From the get-go I can think of dozens of unique mechanics related to mind-manipulation that could’ve been here, stories and that’s just a tip of an iceberg. I believe you can’t blame storywriters for all of that, since it’s company-wide effort, but still.

Rym.1469:

Tbh, I think they now regret that they went with massive dragons. Sounds cool on paper, but in practice it’s shallow, cliche plot and extremaly limitating when it comes to combat.

We have already slain arguably the second most interesting Elder Dragon (after DSD) – of Mind – and they wasted it’s potential. From the get-go I can think of dozens of unique mechanics related to mind-manipulation that could’ve been here, stories and that’s just a tip of an iceberg. I believe you can’t blame storywriters for all of that, since it’s company-wide effort, but still.

Yeah, Angels and Demons were never heard of…

Overall it is a matter of execution.

I mean, in general “dragons” is just a name for them, as they don’t really have the form of dragons most of the time (though there is a theme going around).

We saw the early artwork, but aside from Zaithan and Kalkratorik (who was only discribed to us via book at the moment) we don’t know if the others still follow that pattern.

Even Mordremoth wasn’t that dragon like (maybe a chinese dragon) and by all means Steve or Primordus don’t have to follow that shape at all.

What the dragons do isn’t that “special” either (feeding on magic, etc.). It could have been done by demons, while angels (Exalted, etc..) try to stop them and we are cought in between, because no one who knows something is telling us what is going on.

The “who” of the danger isn’t as important as the execution.
I don’t care if I slay dozens of demons with grotesqe forms or dozens of dragon minions who look as scary.

At least with only two factions as antagonists (big ones), the scope would have been a bit smaller and more focused.
Right now we have to get through all six dragons first, which can take a while.

That being said, two out of six down is only 1/3 of the potential seen. Just because mordy was cranky when he woke up and maybe not up to his A-Game, doesn’t mean the other dragons are as “stupid”?
I don’t know, we haven’t met them yet.

We did see the front part of Primordus in GW1, and it looked pretty dragon-like. From memory, though, there are some indications that it might not be the typical four-legs-and-wings body shape behind, but something more suited towards moving and burrowing underground.

draxynnic.3719:

We did see the front part of Primordus in GW1, and it looked pretty dragon-like. From memory, though, there are some indications that it might not be the typical four-legs-and-wings body shape behind, but something more suited towards moving and burrowing underground.

Yeah, we saw it. However he was sleeping and pretty “rocklike”.
If he governs molten stone (or heat), then he could be as flexible as Mordremoth or even Zaithan.

I don’t think only dragons are able to wield eldar dragon power. I mean, Mordremoth didn’t look like a dragon in his mind, which could mean that this was his original form, thus maybe the ED-energy itself forces the image of the dragon upon it’s wielder?

Mordremoth’s true mental avatar was just a shadow of the Mouth of Mordremoth’s face. The bipedal thing that fought us was basically a giant armored sylvari/mordrem with the Mouth of Mordremoth’s face on it. I wouldn’t call the bipedal avatar Mordremoth’s “true form” in the least, especially since the Mouth of Mordremoth was its body and the shadow face replicated the Mouth of Mordremoth’s head perfectly (or as perfectly as one could).

The Mouth of Mordremoth itself is very much a copy of the Mystic Dragon/Flurry Dragon miniatures, just planty instead. Meanwhile, Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik seem to take on the more traditional European dragon look, which seems typical for dragons found in Tyria (Glint, Bone Dragons if they kept their hind legs, and of course the dragon champions). Primordus we only saw to the shoulders so we can’t quite say but I’d bet he’s more of a wyvern-like appearance.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Primordus_01_concept_art.jpg
and
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/6/66/Dragon_01_concept_art_%28Destroyer_Dragon%29.jpg

Primo definitely has the euro “archetype” look to him, though the fine details are definitely not the same.

That first one is just concept, though. Consider how far Zhaitan varied from its concept art, or Mordremoth from what we think was its.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

That first one is just concept, though. Consider how far Zhaitan varied from its concept art, or Mordremoth from what we think was its.

To be fair, Zhaitan’s essentially a mass of corpses assembled into the shape of a dragon, where flesh and bone are probably mangled by magic into said shape. What makes you think he didnt look like the concept art at first, with the raising of Orr, but as it’s corruption/influence spread, also morphed into it’s last form before being defeated?

I wouldn’t know what to think if Primordus does wind up with wings when they finally reveal him. It just wouldn’t make much sense given the size of Elder Dragons and the fact that he’s underground in probably very enclosed spaces 99.99% of the time.

Maybe like Konig said, with him being more wyvern-like, the front limbs can double as both digging claws and wings, but just straight up wings? I just can’t see it. Though, I could also see them taking a cue off of Mordy concept art too. They could keep his front half as a wyvern, with the claw/wings and head, but his back half could be more wyrm (the limbless variety) like.

Or maybe they’ll go totally off the wall and make him a gigantic molten mole dragon.

Which begs the question if only dragons are able to wield ED power?

If that isn’t the case, is it the ED-Energy that forces said form upon it’s host?
So far the known forms are very “traditional”.

What would happen if we are able to pump a non dragon with ED-Energy? Similiar to what happened in CoE, but only one type of energy.

Would it start to shapeshift, if it is able to contain the energy?

I mean, we allready know about the fact/idea of the ED-Energy being able to be transfered and we have the theory that it is seeking something akin to a host. Or at least the being that has the most of it’s energy is governing it’s distibution, towards his minions.

Aidan Savage.2078:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Primordus_01_concept_art.jpg
and
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/6/66/Dragon_01_concept_art_%28Destroyer_Dragon%29.jpg

Primo definitely has the euro “archetype” look to him, though the fine details are definitely not the same.

That first one is part of an early (read: 2006) group of concept arts that were long ago scrapped. The other such images are:

Early Zhaitan

Early Mordremoth

Early Jormag

Obviously, they didn’t turn out like their earliest – stated to be scrapped – concept arts.

The second one, just like his GW1 model, doesn’t show past his shoulders, nor does it show limbs of any kind. So for all we know he has no limbs and is akin to Mordremoth in being snake-like. Or he has tendrils for limbs, which we see in a way in both that second concept art and his GW1 model.

Jaken.6801:

Which begs the question if only dragons are able to wield ED power?

If that isn’t the case, is it the ED-Energy that forces said form upon it’s host?
So far the known forms are very “traditional”.

What would happen if we are able to pump a non dragon with ED-Energy? Similiar to what happened in CoE, but only one type of energy.

Would it start to shapeshift, if it is able to contain the energy?

I mean, we allready know about the fact/idea of the ED-Energy being able to be transfered and we have the theory that it is seeking something akin to a host. Or at least the being that has the most of it’s energy is governing it’s distibution, towards his minions.

Dragon minions seem capable, regardless of their actual form, though the most powerful ones tend to have draconic features.

And we have the Six Gods, who were humanoid and had a lot of magic themselves.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dragon minions seem capable, regardless of their actual form, though the most powerful ones tend to have draconic features.

And we have the Six Gods, who were humanoid and had a lot of magic themselves.

I am kinda on the edge with the “most powerful”.

While every ED seems to have a dragon like creature on the front line, we don’t see them that much later on.

Yes, there are dragons in the sky with Zaithan, but only because there is an army of them and it allows for air supperiority.
None of them is as powerful as Tequatle (or shown as strong, as one airship can take down several)

The Shatterer and Claw of Jormag are always reformed in “canon” like Tequatle. There don’t seem to be more of them, aside from one weird glitch that happened to the Shatterer.

The Shadow of the Dragon seemed to be a one time thing.
It was kinda weird not to see him returning in HoT, but instead we focused on more humanoid beings.

Maybe the dragon motive was something they started out with, but got tired for the furure.

I mean, the only two who are left t o show of their dragon would be Primordus and Steve (though a concept art showed some kind of Hydra, which could be called dragonlike).

Powerful in terms of brute force maybe, but appearently nothing they really care about having around in the long run, which makes me questioning their role in the hirarchy of the EDs.

I wasn’t talking about the actual dragons, though I would count those, but those that become more heavily twisted – some of them turn to having more draconic features.

Primary samples would be Risen Knights (the champion risen knights are the worst enemies in the game hands down – they hit hard and take a huge beating) and Mordrem Dark Wings (while the three bosses with that model aren’t the toughest, they’re all powerful and apparently higher ranked minions both mechanically and in lore). There’s less obvious ones – I’d count the Eyes and Mouths of Zhaitan and Dragonspawn among them – as well.

As an aside, Shatterer and Claws of Jormag don’t reform. They’re replaced. Tequatl survived the fights, and just recovered before striking again – and Tequatl was only significantly stronger after Zhaitan’s death. Before hand, it probably would have fallen to an airship equipped with anti-risen canons just like the others (and if you note, only one airship took down multiple dragons – the one with the Pact Commander and Destiny’s Edge; those across Orr are actually destroyed by dragons, and the others in Arah are with no clear indication of losses on either side).

And while oddly shaped, Primordus had a dragon – or rather several, though only one survived to GW1’s time, which was its greatest champion(s).

Erukk.1408:

I wouldn’t know what to think if Primordus does wind up with wings when they finally reveal him. It just wouldn’t make much sense given the size of Elder Dragons and the fact that he’s underground in probably very enclosed spaces 99.99% of the time.

Maybe like Konig said, with him being more wyvern-like, the front limbs can double as both digging claws and wings, but just straight up wings? I just can’t see it. Though, I could also see them taking a cue off of Mordy concept art too. They could keep his front half as a wyvern, with the claw/wings and head, but his back half could be more wyrm (the limbless variety) like.

Or maybe they’ll go totally off the wall and make him a gigantic molten mole dragon.

Depends on what they do with the wings. In another context, I’ve toyed with the concept of dragon wings that had become useless for flying… but instead of atrophying, they became heavily armoured so they could be used as weapons and shields. One could imagine Primordus having wings that have developed into giant scoops that aid in burrowing by shoving loose material backwards as it digs.