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Posted by: TheOnlyOneNL.3821

TheOnlyOneNL.3821

Q:

Is there a story behind the fact that Zoija and Eir hate each other, besides the fact that they screwed up to kill the dragon?

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Posted by: Zhou.3145

Zhou.3145

A:

Book Spoiler. Would stop reading here if you want to read em’, If not, knock yourself out.


Destiny’s Edge had a sixth member. Zoija’s master before she was left on her own. She blames Eir for his death. His name was Snaff if I remember correctly, a golemancer.

Edit: For spoiler tag! Ty friend. Psst. Click above.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: wouw.5837

wouw.5837

Zoija was(I geuss) in love with Snaff, who died due to Eir’s plan failed.

Elona is Love, Elona is life.

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Posted by: TheOnlyOneNL.3821

TheOnlyOneNL.3821

Thanks, and snaff is indeed a really famous golemancer

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Posted by: killdamnzade.2598

killdamnzade.2598

I thought Snaff died due to the


guardian Logan having to return to Divinity’s Reach to aide his queen?

Sora Yozora – Norn [SM] Dragonbrand /)^3^(\

(edited by killdamnzade.2598)

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Posted by: wouw.5837

wouw.5837

yes, but Eir said they should keep Fighting and they would win without Logan

Elona is Love, Elona is life.

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Posted by: Zhou.3145

Zhou.3145

There’s a lot of hate going on in the group. We could argue Snaff died due to Logan leaving, but Zoija thinks otherwise. Rytlock blames the failure of their mission on Logan, while Zoija blames Eir for the loss of her master. I believe Caithe is the one that tries to bring them together from what little I’ve gathered from playing the story?

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Posted by: killdamnzade.2598

killdamnzade.2598

I guess I’m going to have to read the book the summary in the collector’s guide only says


there are those who hold Logan INDIRECTLY responsible for Snaff’s death.

Sora Yozora – Norn [SM] Dragonbrand /)^3^(\

(edited by killdamnzade.2598)

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Posted by: Skoltnik.4361

Skoltnik.4361

Book Spoiler. Would stop reading here if you want to read em’, If not, knock yourself out.

Destiny’s Edge had a sixth member. Zoija’s master before she was left on her own. She blames Eir for his death. His name was Snaff if I remember correctly, a golemancer.

this is right.

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Posted by: Regina Buenaobra

Regina Buenaobra

Content Marketing Lead

Next

Friendly note: Did you know we have spoiler tags in the forums? Could prove useful for lore discussions.

Content Marketing Lead
Twitter: @ArenaNet, @GuildWars2
In-Game Name: Cm Regina Buenaobra

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Posted by: Fnarist.8467

Fnarist.8467

Indeed there is! To use it type: Square bracket [ spoiler ] close square bracket, and your spoilerific knowledge, then [ / spoiler ] without the spaces, and you don’t need to write “square bracket.”

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Posted by: TheOnlyOneNL.3821

TheOnlyOneNL.3821


like this?

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Posted by: Zhou.3145

Zhou.3145

I added a spoiler tag. Yaaay!

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Posted by: Lctl.6198

Lctl.6198

Ultimely, she blames eir for not telling logan to stay. Before he leaves, she had a chance to tell hom to stay , she didnt.
Thus blaming eir and not logan, even if he IS the culprit for snuffs demise.

After all, it was logan’s task to protect snuff, with logan gone….. Yeah. I hate logan.

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Posted by: Cancer.9065

Cancer.9065

The reason beign that Asuran believe in wisdom not in courage. Logan failed his friends (good motives or not) but it was Eir failure to realize that “brains not brawn” will win the war against the dragons that Zojja takes issue with.. Eir should have called off the whole operation instead of just wildly charge in (as a good Norn would) knowing that the plan needed a Logan to tank… that is why Zojja hates her, and just looks down on Logan.

Cancer is also a Zodiac sign.

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Posted by: Sirius.4510

Sirius.4510

Eir did attempt to convince Logan to stay, but it didn’t exactly work well. As for calling it off… well, I guess we’ll never know whether that would be an option. Kralkatorrik was heading pretty much straight for them.

Just a random PuGgle.
Stormbluff Isle ( http://www.stormbluffisle.com )

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Posted by: HERO.2057

HERO.2057

I need to re-read that section, but i tought Logan left during the battle, or was it before?

Logan being a Guardian it was way easier for him to protect Snaff, Eir being a warrior knew too well how to defend herself but not how to defend someone else (besides killing everyone that is a threat) and she failed miserably to protect Snaff.

Zojja needs to calm down and realize Eir and Garm did the best they could, but it was simply not enough.

public execution for Logan in the center of LA.

Electronic Empire [eE]
———
Commander of Blacktide

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Posted by: killdamnzade.2598

killdamnzade.2598

Eir being a warrior

you mean ranger? But i agree Zoija needs to “take a chill pill” sort of speak.

Sora Yozora – Norn [SM] Dragonbrand /)^3^(\

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Posted by: Sojourner.6938

Sojourner.6938

Wait … you mean there are BOOKS?!?!

Logging over to Amazon in 3 … 2 … 1 …

Odd Bodkins
Genius

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Posted by: Zhou.3145

Zhou.3145

There are two, and I think the third one comes out soon.

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Posted by: Asukla.3654

Asukla.3654

Wait … you mean there are BOOKS?!?!

Logging over to Amazon in 3 … 2 … 1 …

XD

There are 3 Books: “Edge of Destiny”, “Ghosts of Ascalon” and “Sea of Sorrow”. “Edge of Destiny” is about the story od Zojja, Eir, Logan, Rytlock and Caithe, 5 years before GW2.

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Posted by: Overworld.9613

Overworld.9613

I need to re-read that section, but i tought Logan left during the battle, or was it before?

Logan being a Guardian it was way easier for him to protect Snaff, Eir being a warrior knew too well how to defend herself but not how to defend someone else.

Minor correction: Logan alone wasn’t the one defending Snaff. Caithe, Eir, Rytlock, Zojja and Logan were defending several entrance points that all lead to Snaff. Logan was supposed to help Caithe defend one of the entrances, but he left and Caithe alone wasn’t enough and she was overrun. Knowing full well the tactical weakness of Caithe by herself Eir decided they could hold out long enough to deal the final blow. It was her call in the end and Snaff ended up paying for it.

Logan was a total git for running off though, I admit.

Secretly creative

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Posted by: Cancer.9065

Cancer.9065

Eir did attempt to convince Logan to stay, but it didn’t exactly work well. As for calling it off… well, I guess we’ll never know whether that would be an option. Kralkatorrik was heading pretty much straight for them.

Well logan “called it off” for himself so I would venture that the others could have done the same?

Cancer is also a Zodiac sign.

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Posted by: manwhat.1745

manwhat.1745

Destiny’s Edge not getting back together earlier is pretty much all Logan’s fault. At one point as a Charr you can ask Rytlock why he’s so mad, and why he can’t just forgive Logan. His reponse is something like “He never once apologised, never showed a single shred of regret.” And Logan himself says “If you were in my position, any one of you would have done the same.”

That’s why Logan was wrong. Not because he made the mistake, but because since then, he absolutely refuses to even consider the fact that he made a mistake. He can’t accept the idea of making the wrong decision at all.

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Posted by: Sajuuk Khar.1509

Sajuuk Khar.1509

Right and wrong are terms that humans apply to actions based on our perception of events.

Logan doesn’t have to apologize for making a “wrong” choice because he didn’t.

Right and wrong are not absolutes, they are opinions, and like all opinions, no one person’s opinion is any more correct then any others.

The breaking up of DE is not one person’s fault, it is the fault of all people who have an opinion on the matter that they believe was right, which is to say, all of them.

(edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509)

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Posted by: mattbrowne.7608

mattbrowne.7608

Right and wrong are terms that humans apply to actions based on our perception of events.

Logan doesn’t have to apologize for making a “wrong” choice because he didn’t.

Right and wrong are not absolutes, they are opinions, and like all opinions, no one person’s opinion is any more correct then any others.

The breaking up of DE is not one person’s fault, it is the fault of all people who have an opinion on the matter that they believe was right, which is to say, all of them.

But when that opinion is born of one man’s actions and one man’s actions alone, you find yourself wondering if those opinions aren’t right at all.

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Posted by: Sajuuk Khar.1509

Sajuuk Khar.1509

But when that opinion is born of one man’s actions and one man’s actions alone, you find yourself wondering if those opinions aren’t right at all.

The opinions they hold were not created from one mans actions, they were created from a multitude of actions
1. Logan’s leaving
2. Eir’s choice to continue on without him
3. Snaff’s Death
4. Glint’s death

All contributed to the opinions they hold now. To try and place it all on one person is to ignore the entirety of the situation.

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Posted by: manwhat.1745

manwhat.1745

But when that opinion is born of one man’s actions and one man’s actions alone, you find yourself wondering if those opinions aren’t right at all.

The opinions they hold were not created from one mans actions, they were created from a multitude of actions
1. Logan’s leaving
2. Eir’s choice to continue on without him
3. Snaff’s Death
4. Glint’s death

All contributed to the opinions they hold now. To try and place it all on one person is to ignore the entirety of the situation.

2, 3 and 4 all happened because Logan decided to leave.

Logan doesn’t have to apologize for making a “wrong” choice because he didn’t.

Maybe he doesn’t have to apologise for being wrong. But he didn’t apologise for Snaff dying. He literally does not regret a thing, or at least hasn’t expressed it. Like I said earlier, Rytlock says he would forgive Logan much earlier if he would just say “Sorry for leaving you.”

(edited by manwhat.1745)

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Posted by: Sajuuk Khar.1509

Sajuuk Khar.1509

2, 3 and 4 all happened because Logan decided to leave.

So your saying that Eir was forced into deciding to continue because Logan left, that she couldn’t just say “nope we need to do this another time”?

Eir could have called the entire thing off right then, she knew they would be weaker without Logan, and yet she decided to continue.

Had she decided otherwise, she could have told Glint to go somewhere and hide, and neither Glint, nor Snaff, would be dead.

Eir is just as responsible for their deaths, for deciding to continue while weakened, as Logan is for leaving, and just as the others are for continuing with Eir’s plan.

Eir’s choice to continue was her own, that she made the choice was caused by Logan’s leaving, but the choice she made was ultimately hers and hers alone.

(edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509)

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Posted by: mattbrowne.7608

mattbrowne.7608

Eir regrets her choice. You can see that in her dialogue and her insistence to make things right, even with Zojja being a pita about it. Logan, on the other hand, couldn’t care less. He’s at fault here, by every standard, I really can’t get how people can defend him…

Yes, Eir could’ve called it all off and she didn’t, tough call, bad choice; kitten happened. She, however, tried to remedy it all. And she only had to make that choice because Logan decided to leave.

In the end, everything happened due to his selfish choice.

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Posted by: Sajuuk Khar.1509

Sajuuk Khar.1509

Eir has nothing to regret, just like Logan has nothing to regret.

And no he isn’t at fault by any standard, unless your standard is the same as the people who blame coffee shops when they spill hot coffee on themselves. He quite literally did nothing, him leaving did not result in anyone’s death.

Glint and Snaff’s deaths were the result of a cascading series of events that started over 10,000 years ago.

We might as well blame
-The Dwarven, Forgotten, Mursaat, Seer, and Jotun alliance for failing to kill the Dragons in the last cycle.
-Glint herself for never warning the races in advance of what was to come
-The human gods who cataloged the efforts of the 5 races in Arah and used the city as a giant archive of dragon-lore yet apparently told no one.
-The rest of DE who, in their arrogance, believed they could take on Kralky without Logan’s power.

It is no one persons fault, and to try to blame it solely on one person is very stupid because it ignores how w got to the situation in the first place.

(edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509)

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Posted by: FXLEACH.9436

FXLEACH.9436

Right and wrong are terms that humans apply to actions based on our perception of events.

Logan doesn’t have to apologize for making a “wrong” choice because he didn’t.

Right and wrong are not absolutes, they are opinions, and like all opinions, no one person’s opinion is any more correct then any others.

The breaking up of DE is not one person’s fault, it is the fault of all people who have an opinion on the matter that they believe was right, which is to say, all of them.

So this is your opinion?

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Posted by: mattbrowne.7608

mattbrowne.7608

Eir has nothing to regret, just like Logan has nothing to regret.

And no he isn’t at fault by any standard, unless your standard is the same as the people who blame coffee shops when they spill hot coffee on themselves. He quite literally did nothing, him leaving did not result in anyone’s death.

Glint and Snaff’s deaths were the result of a cascading series of events that started over 10,000 years ago.

We might as well blame
-The Dwarven, Forgotten, Mursaat, Seer, and Jotun alliance for failing to kill the Dragons in the last cycle.
-Glint herself for never warning the races in advance of what was to come
-The human gods who cataloged the efforts of the 5 races in Arah and used the city as a giant archive of dragon-lore yet apparently told no one.
-The rest of DE who, in their arrogance, believed they could take on Kralky without Logan’s power.

It is no one persons fault, and to try to blame it solely on one person is very stupid because it ignores how w got to the situation in the first place.

Looking from a cascading effects perspective, I can agree with you. From a present perspective, however, I think it’s natural to blame Logan. But I think that comes down to personal opinion, don’t it?

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Posted by: Zhou.3145

Zhou.3145


I believe most of the people within “Destiny’s Edge” would put their finger at the two people that are being discussed already; Eir, and Logan. In our present time of this story, It’s split into two, with Rytlock blaming Logan, and Zoijja blaming Eir, with Caithe attempting to reunite them again to combat the dragons that grow stronger.

I believe its more of just a show of how each of the races are essentially culturally different from one another. It is without a doubt, that all of them had hard decisions to make other than Asurans, who would act upon their wisdom, rather than Eir’s bravery. Rytlock as a Charr on the other hand would simply have it as Logan abandoning them for a poor reason. Logan has his loyalty to his people above all else, which he combats himself with regret. The only one that seems to be relatively neutral in all of this is Caithe, the Sylvari whom are the youngest race.

So what is being portrayed (Or trying to) is that the rights and wrongs done by Destiny’s Edge is not in the light or dark, but rather very grey.

It seems most people would blame Logan for the failure in the first place. But the other way to look at it in that point of view is; if he hadn’t done what he did to save the Queen and allow Ebonhawke to be overrun, where exactly would the humans be then? In the same ruinous state as previous fallen civilizations and races perhaps? Or the story being told in our present time would show a weaker Kryta, and Divinity’s Reach may as well be in higher political upheaval.

The sudden of chain of events during that time I think were unfavorable, and it would more likely fall on the fault of Eir, and the others going through with the plan due to a lack of time to discuss as well as having hasty actions, not being able to line up the plans as they wanted to.
The fault however, is very light. Though, the situation Tyria is in, is very dire. As shown now in the game, its about reuniting them to put away their differences and past anguish in order to prevent worse to happen.

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Posted by: Dizzard.4396

Dizzard.4396

Maybe this is just because I’ve only so far met with them in Lion’s Arch and played the story mode for Ascalonian Catacombs but I get this bad feeling that all or most of the dungeons are going to center around this group squabbling with each other like children. That doesn’t sound like my idea of a good time.

I haven’t read the books but from what I’ve gathered it feels to me like they’re anger is aimed at the wrong places. None of them made bad decisions, they just made decisions.

Caithe seems like the only sane and rational person in the group. How are these guys supposed to be the heroes?

(edited by Dizzard.4396)

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Posted by: Overworld.9613

Overworld.9613


It seems most people would blame Logan for the failure in the first place. But the other way to look at it in that point of view is; if he hadn’t done what he did to save the Queen and allow Ebonhawke to be overrun, where exactly would the humans be then? In the same ruinous state as previous fallen civilizations and races perhaps? Or the story being told in our present time would show a weaker Kryta, and Divinity’s Reach may as well be in higher political upheaval.


The Queen managed to save herself, creating an illusion of the Kraky for the branded to follow. Logan wasn’t entierly nessessary there. What he did that was useful was freeing the Charr prisoners and working side by side with them, essentially starting the two races on the road to peace. Also as a story element, Logan finding his Brother’s body on the battlefeild is probably what stopped him from going back to Destiny’s Edge after making sure the Queen was safe, because he no longer had anyone in the Serif who he trusted to keep her safe (and he is a bit obsessed with the Queen and her safety). So while he was a prat for not having his priorities in order and thinking he was needed to help save the Queen dispight the Shining Blade and the Serif both being on the scene, he helped with diplomatic relation with the Charr overall.

Secretly creative

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Posted by: RaptorSpectre.3271

RaptorSpectre.3271

Logan saw to his duty to queen and country first. The others that hold that against him have no understanding of honor and duty. Rytlock should understand loyalty to ones country or legion.
Also Zojia is being a selfish prat in holding the failure of Eir’s head. She made a choice and it didn’t succeed. A real friend forgives mistakes.

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