Guild Wars 2

PetboyJoshua.3108:

About Malyck’s tree and stuff…
Ronan found the Pale Tree’s seed in a cavern where there was other seeds, what if all those seeds went under some kind of purification ritual event before he found them ? He stole one, planted it far away… And the other ones were maybe planted by someone else in Maguuma to fulfill what they were made for. Maybe Malyck’s tree was one of those seeds.
And that would also imply that yes, there’s also seeds that weren’t cleansed, because I doubt that the ones responsible for the cleansing got all of the existing seeds.

That actually makes a lot of sense and really ties the story. I hope this true

Mephu Tahm Jr.1962:

…..

Avariz.8241:

My PC sylvari had an interview with the Pale Tree where she said the dream of dreams originated from beyond the Mist.

From this I infer that only perhaps somewhere in the Mists, is there some sort of vague representation of any creature’s “true form”, and this is why Mother Tree herself does not know, understand, or reveal her knowledge or understanding of all things, especially in relation to the Dragons (some things she can’t know or understand either). This may also be why Scarlet had the Aetherblades explore the Mists, and this opens up the question of what exactly did or will Mai Trin and/or Rytlock find in the Mists about the Elder Dragons?

…..

Now reconsidering my certainty about the sylvari dream of dreams from beyond the mist would exclude Mordremoth from sylvari creation myth. I thought this because I have mistakenly believed that elder dragons are only tyrian and could not have a mist origin. For example humans gods and humans were from beyond the mist.

You have made me recalled that the great alchemy with the elder dragon orbs matches very closely the realms of torment. The accepted lore is the realms of torments were part of the mist. Now if the great alchemy with the elder dragon orbs represented the realms of torment and the realms of torment were part of the mist then this would include the elder dragons as having a mist origin.

So the dream of dreams originating from beyond the mist would also include elder dragons as well.

On another subject matter, it is very strange that mordrem would have kidney, eyes, and other fauna parts which could be extracted by PC. One would expect mordrem being 100% plants would not have fauna internal organs and yet they have. This would make mordrem more fauna than just flora. This would indicate that Mordremoth have gain a fauna sphere beside that of his flora sphere!

Edit: coming round full circle, if great alchemy and elder dragon orbs represented the realms of tormant, and the realms of torment were part of the mist, and human and their gods were from the mist then one can assume human and their gods could originate from the mist that which could also include Tyria given that Tyria and the elder dragon orbs were realms of torment and part of the mist.

Is the speculation that realms of torment were part of the mist accurately sourced? Could this speculation be wrong?!

Casia.4281:

-snip-

Sylvari come from the Pale Tree. So if the sylvari come from Mordremoth, then the Pale Tree – whom the sylvari come from directly – must come from Mordremoth.

Scarlet’s drawing is obviously skewed from her point of view. Do you expect a narcessistic insane person to make a logical and 100% accurate drawing?

And the Pale Tree isn’t the center in the vision – the world of Tyria is. In the vision, the Pale Tree is a “barrier” we bypass. We go through/past the Pale Tree to see the vision of The All (which the Pale Tree is irrelevant to).

While the players fought the Shadow of the Dragon, it is stated that only a rare few do – not everyone. Remember, there is only one sylvari PC; the rest are just “other sylvari who are adventurers”. They did not do the things you do. They did not fight the Shadow of the Dragon in the Dream (or maybe they did, maybe some are part of the rare few).

So to most sylvari, the Shadow of the Dragon holds no relevance.

Avariz.8241:

-snip-

It’s Eternal Alchemy, not great alchemy. And the vision isn’t even of the Eternal Alchemy – Scarlet mistook it as such because the Eternal Alchemy is attempting to define The All (what the vision is of) and then some.

The All is basically the map of Tyria from the perspective of the Mists. So it would make sense to be akin to the Realm of Torment, which is the map of something in the Mists. And yes, the Realm of Torment is in the Mists – this isn’t speculation but canon lore. Just like the Underworld and Fissure of Woe, it’s part of the Afterlife within the Mists.

And you’re making the presumption that the Dream of Dreams is tied to the Elder Dragons. However, this doesn’t seem so. In fact, the Dream appears more tied to locations in Tyria rather than beings – and certain beings, such as the Pale Tree and the White Stag – are capable of being part of both. The Pale Tree and Ogden heavily hint (and other things minorly hint) that the Dream is what protects the sylvari from Mordremoth’s corruption. If the Dream was tied directly to Mordremoth, then it wouldn’t be the protection.

I don’t see the mimicry of organs proof that Mordremoth has a sphere of influence over animals.

And the first lore we got on the Mists was that all things can trace their origins to the Mists.

MatthewMedina.5419:

Just want to clear one thing up since this is out of the bag already. There are no “Mordrem Court” in Heart of Thorns. References to that nomenclature are a bug. These enemies are all called “Mordrem Guard”. Now, continue your speculating. :-P

I don’t know if there is some confusion in the studio but I’m pretty sure Colin called them “Mordrem court” in the interviews he gave for the press test of HoT.

I also remember hearing Colin saying that (according to my youtube history, it could be in an interview by AngryJoe, Bogotter or Matt Visual).
But that doesn’t mean much, I think maybe that’s just their unofficial names (like, I don’t know, Stabbycats ?).

Shiren.9532:

Malyck’s dream wasn’t as complex as the one sylvari from the Pale Tree seem to experience. This may be because the Pale Tree is special, this may be because Malyck was severed physically from his tree, or it may be because his tree is younger and the pool of their dreams is shallow compared to the Pale Tree.

If by “not as complex” you mean “non-existent” than indeed.

The Dream seems unique to the Pale Tree in regards to the sylvari/other trees. It is what protects the sylvari from Mordremoth and other dragons’ corruptions, by implication both in-game and out. It is not unique to the Pale Tree in regards to the grand scale of things – see White Stag.

So why would Malyck have a Dream, when it seems not common to all mordrem, but just to the Pale Tree?

Malyck does mention a sense of distance and longing, but nothing really implies this is part of the Dream experience for other sylvari – or his equivilant. It very may be simply a feeling resultant from being a dragon minions not under Mordy’s direct brainwashing control.

Shiren.9532:

If Malycks tree is older or a similar age, it should have a similar number of sylvari. Why has only Malyck travelled the short distance from Maguuma to the Grove? Why wouldn’t more sylvari from his tree travel as far as our sylvari? I know Ventari taught “Where life goes, so too must you” but the inquisitive nature of sylvari is not taught – that nature I believe would take at least some sylvari beyond deep Maguuma.

Only true if the production of sylvari is not an active choice. Malyck’s tree may have been refraining from creating (as many) sylvari – may not even be as cryptic as the Pale Tree for such reasons.

PetboyJoshua.3108:

I also remember hearing Colin saying that (according to my youtube history, it could be in an interview by AngryJoe, Bogotter or Matt Visual).
But that doesn’t mean much, I think maybe that’s just their unofficial names (like, I don’t know, Stabbycats ?).

Like how the Molten Alliance were called Fledge during development.

Makes sense. And would explain how the name was a “bug”.

Shiren.9532:

Lytalm.5673:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Just want to clear one thing up since this is out of the bag already. There are no “Mordrem Court” in Heart of Thorns. References to that nomenclature are a bug. These enemies are all called “Mordrem Guard”. Now, continue your speculating. :-P

I don’t know if there is some confusion in the studio but I’m pretty sure Colin called them “Mordrem court” in the interviews he gave for the press test of HoT.

Given Matthew’s comments I think most of us would like to see a source for that.

Ask and you shall receive.

This is the one I could find where Colin specifically refers to them as Mordrem Court, although there could be more video interviews out there including him mentioning such.

Video link here. (exact spot where it’s mentioned is 7:17 but I wanted to start the video a bit earlier to give people some context how that info bomb comes up)

However, with that said, the videos of the HoT demo I’ve watched did show the enemies being called Mordrem Guard InsertEnemyTypeNameHere, so there was no sign of any enemy being called Mordrem Court SomethingOrOther at least in the demo bits I’ve seen.

This, to me, means one of two things:

a) Colin somehow didn’t get the memo of the change to the name used for these enemies, or accidentally referred to them by their initial development name. After all, trying to figure out how much to reveal in interviews and how to word things so people don’t misunderstand what you’re saying can be stressful, so mistakes of that nature are human and understandable, so Colin’s words may be malleable in this instance as far as ‘canon’ is concerned.

b) There actually are enemies called Mordrem Court at some point who are somewhat separate from the Mordrem Guard, but this is meant to be a big twist of some kind so it’s kept under wraps. This, to me, seems unlikely due to Matthew’s comment above, but you never know since devs can be sneaky like that. We see, however, in the HoT demo’s story bit that if we choose the option to aid Laranthir rescue missing Pact people, we end up locating a squad of Mordrem Guards who have been capturing Pact members, sylvari included, and plan to take them somewhere else from the prison area to be "turned" into Mordrem, but we manage to save one such group of captives from such a fate after defeating a particularly devious and genre savvy Mordrem Guard lieutenant (champion?) whose taunts are so delicious. It seems to be implied that non-sylvari may be killed and turned into "hosts" for the invasive Mordrem flowers (akin to Mordrem Wolves) while the captured sylvari may instead be "corrupted" alive and turned into Mordrem Guard (who are capable of speech and appear to be the most intelligent dragon minions to date with their subversive tactics and taunting), although I might have missed some dialogue while watching the demo vids gameplay.

I found these pictures which were drawn by Kekai Kotaki a few months ago. These 2 pictures depict “evil” sylvari (possibly corrupt?). Here is the link to the GW2wiki page of Kotaki’s art works. Just scroll down a bit on the page and they should be on the right. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Art_by_Kekai_Kotaki

I’m… not sure I see what you’re talking about. All of the plant images I saw there are years old, and they’ve all been on the wiki for at least ten months. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Kotaki leave the company after launch?

I am not sure, but some of the content like the revenant which will be released in HoT was already planned since launch, so maybe. It was just interesting seeing these 2 pictures in particular though,

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/d/d4/Evil_sylvari_concept_art_4.jpg

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/6/6a/Evil_sylvari_concept_art_5.jpg

Shiren.9532:

One is that the Dream is sometimes called the Dream of Dreams, suggesting it’s somewhat grand in scale compared to other Dreams.

I always took it to mean “the Dream of the sylvari’s dreams” so to speak, since it contains the race (in relation to the Pale Tree’s offspring)’s collective memories (“dreams”) and it itself is akin to a dream.

Shiren.9532:

The other is that Malyck obviously does Dream

You’re wrong. Malyck repeatedly asks what the Dream is, and how it could possibly be different from the Nightmare.

Malyck: So, Valiant, you did show up, after all. Tell me something. These “courtiers”—do they come from the same Grove that you do?
<Character name>: We are all sylvari, Malyck, but they’re of the nightmare. I am of the Dream. You don’t know the difference?
Malyck: No. I’ve never heard of either one.

<Character name>: Because we are all sylvari. We all follow the Dream. Can’t you feel that we are related?
Malyck: Feel it? No. I feel nothing, Valiant. Only a great sense of distance, and loss.
<Character name>: You’ve been too long from the Pale Tree, that’s all. When you return, she will heal your lost memory. Come back with me to the Grove. You’ll see.
Malyck: I hope you are right. I want to hear more about this “Dream.” If your friends can help me, then I will meet with them.

Caithe: Malyck is your name? You feel…oddly quiet. Strangely still.
Trahearne: When did you awaken at the Pale Tree? In what cycle? What did you Dream?
Malyck: Tree? I know no Pale Tree. I have had no Dream. My first memory begins two weeks ago. I was lying by a river, staring up at an arched bridge.
Malyck: I was injured, and I wandered the forest from there, following the river until the Wardens found me and took me in.
Trahearne: No Dream? Perhaps you have only forgotten it. If you were badly injured, your memories could be damaged or lost. Perhaps if we look into the Dream itself, we could find them.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/An_Unknown_Soul

Malyck: I’ll find my way home. After seeing this—your closeness—the Dream… perhaps I want that for myself.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Different_Dream

You have to keep in mind that all this talk of amnesia is the PC, Trahearne, and Caithe presuming Malyck comes from the Pale Tree. There’s more lines about Malyck, where he outright questions the Dream and Nightmare being so similar, during the end of the storyline, but that dialogue isn’t up on the wiki.

He lacks a Dream, but he desires it while all the same questioning just how similar to the Nightmare it truly is.

Shiren.9532:

It’s what allows a sylvari to step into the world fully formed as an adult and literally fight for their lives right away.

Got a source for that, for that’s never mentioned anywhere.

The Dream is just a metaphysical/mental pre-life experience for sylvari, and holds the memories of the Pale Tree and her children (and others).

Shiren.9532:

Malyck awakens with_fluent_ knowledge of the common tongue of Tyria and he knows how to fight. Malyck learned something before being born, he didn’t just turn up one day as a sentient plant creature needing to start from scratch.

Malyck: Tree? I know no Pale Tree. I have had no Dream. My first memory begins two weeks ago. I was lying by a river, staring up at an arched bridge.
Malyck: I was injured, and I wandered the forest from there, following the river until the Wardens found me and took me in.

How much do you think he might have learned in 2 weeks? I can’t say on the speaking bit, but he learned to fight from the Wardens:

-> Tell me about Warden Banya.
She was very kind to me. She gave me these weapons…and taught me to use them.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Where_Life_Goes

Shiren.9532:

I also don’t think it’s explicitly stated that the Dream is what protects sylvari, the only explicit statements I can remember are that the Pale Tree protects sylvari.

I never said it’s explicitly stated. Hence “by implication of both in-game and out of game sources."

I think it’s rather peculiar that when asked why the sylvari are immune to dragon corruption except Mordremoth, his response is completely about the Dream and “ask the Pale Tree”.

Shiren.9532:

She doesn’t say it’s the Dream, she says it’s her.

And she is what connects the sylvari to the Dream. She is the Dream’s caretaker. Coincidence?

Shiren.9532:

Given how the Dream’s “Wyld Hunt” nature is so similar to Glint’s power of Prophecy and the expansion is supposed to deal with Glint’s lost legacy, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dream and Glint are closely related.

I’m not quite sure how “go do this” is the same as a prophecy. The Wyld Hunts never foretell the future, just give a task.

The Dream seems more akin to the Mists, as it is described as being made of memories and aether – and the Mists, or rather a portion of it, is the memories of past, present, and future.

But again, the Wyld Hunts don’t give visions – of the future or otherwise. It’s described as a sensation of something you have to do. They only appear as visions when experienced before awakening – such as for the PC – which is said to be very rare.

Shiren.9532:

Not only is Glint the alpha test for freeing a creature from Elder Dragon servitude,

Are you sure about that? Choosing a powerful dragon champion that can read minds seems like an odd choice to see if something works on not.

Ogwom.7940:

I found these pictures which were drawn by Kekai Kotaki a few months ago. These 2 pictures depict “evil” sylvari (possibly corrupt?). Here is the link to the GW2wiki page of Kotaki’s art works. Just scroll down a bit on the page and they should be on the right. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Art_by_Kekai_Kotaki

The Art of Guild Wars 2 describe those as original Nightmare Court concept art, but were scrapped.

The scrapping was likely part of Ree’s attempt to make it seem less obvious that sylvari=dragon minions.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I’m… not sure I see what you’re talking about. All of the plant images I saw there are years old, and they’ve all been on the wiki for at least ten months. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Kotaki leave the company after launch?

They’re indeed old – some of the oldest GW2 concept art actually – and he did indeed leave ArenaNet shortly after release.

They have, however, used some concept art for newer things. For example, the ascended heavy armor (possibly others) is based off of Kekai’s concept art.

Ogwom.7940:

I am not sure, but some of the content like the revenant which will be released in HoT was already planned since launch, so maybe. It was just interesting seeing these 2 pictures in particular though,

Where was it said that revenants were planned since launch?

I believe in one of the recent PoIs featuring the revenant, they may have mentioned something about how they made a pool of like more than 8 professions, but chose the best of them which are the 8 we have now. Plus they may have not had enough experience to experiment with the new revenant tech. You should check it out. I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure I heard it in one of the PoIs.

If the Molten Alliance’s in house referred name was Fledge (flame legion and dredge) I could see Mordrem Court being Nightmare Court members being corrupted into Mordrem. Just saying.

It’s probably a bug, but…
In the first story step of the beta, when the champion Mordrem Cavalier falls off of his dinosaur thingie, his appearance changes and he appears as a Sylvari wearing a mix of heavy cultural and Twilight Arbour armor. He does have a typical Mordrem Guard skin in the short cutscene when he gets up, just before he attacks you, so that why I think it's very likely a bug. Still, it's a fun "coincidence". ;p

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And she is what connects the sylvari to the Dream. She is the Dream’s caretaker. Coincidence?

Or so she says. The Tree lies.

BrunoBRS.5178:

part of me always liked the idea that the “mask” isn’t actually a mask, but part of their phisiology. i mean, why not? we don’t really have a lot of lore (that i know of) on mursaat life,

it sure wouldn’t be the first fantasy race to have a “helmet-face.”

Here ya go, Mursaat with out masks that incidentally have “helmet-faces”:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Rise_of_the_White_Mantle_page.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Salvation_page.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:The_Unseen_Ones_page.jpg

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-mordrem-guard/

Well, seems like I was right about the whole “the Mordrem Guards are former Pact Sylvari”. :’p

PetboyJoshua.3108:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-mordrem-guard/

Well, seems like I was right about the whole “the Mordrem Guards are former Pact Sylvari”. :’p

How do they explain why Scarlet and Aerin continued to have a Sylvari appearance rather than a Mordrem appearance even though they were under the control of Mordremoth? Could they have been considered Mordrem Guard as well?

Vesuvius.9874:

PetboyJoshua.3108:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-mordrem-guard/

Well, seems like I was right about the whole “the Mordrem Guards are former Pact Sylvari”. :’p

How do they explain why Scarlet and Aerin continued to have a Sylvari appearance rather than a Mordrem appearance even though they were under the control of Mordremoth? Could they have been considered Mordrem Guard as well?

It’s possible (or even probable) that it’s a gradual process. Or that the physical aspect of corruption has to take place in one of those blighting plants.

Maybe it’s because Mordremoth waited to launch the full assault before actively transforming them ? Or Mordremoth has Mordrem guards, but also some other types of former-Sylvari minions, that aren’t supposed to be fighters and therefore don’t need to get buffed (infiltrated spies, for example ? :‘p).
I don’t know, the idea that he could choose to change some Sylvari’s appearance and not some others doesn’t seem far-fetched to me.

Could be because he wasn’t awake when Scarlet was running around, and arguably Aerin too.

From what it is said Mordy corruption doesn’t transform them until he directly influence their transformation.

Think of it like Zergs from Starcraft, the Sylvari are only the basic form and they require a command to transform into their new form.

Diovid.9506:

Vesuvius.9874:

PetboyJoshua.3108:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-mordrem-guard/

Well, seems like I was right about the whole “the Mordrem Guards are former Pact Sylvari”. :’p

How do they explain why Scarlet and Aerin continued to have a Sylvari appearance rather than a Mordrem appearance even though they were under the control of Mordremoth? Could they have been considered Mordrem Guard as well?

It’s possible (or even probable) that it’s a gradual process. Or that the physical aspect of corruption has to take place in one of those blighting plants.

Or Mordy didn’t want to play his hand too early (up until the end of S2 no one knew the Sylvari were Mordrem and might not even have know that Scarlet and Aerin were serving Mordy).

Vesuvius.9874:

PetboyJoshua.3108:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-mordrem-guard/

Well, seems like I was right about the whole “the Mordrem Guards are former Pact Sylvari”. :’p

How do they explain why Scarlet and Aerin continued to have a Sylvari appearance rather than a Mordrem appearance even though they were under the control of Mordremoth? Could they have been considered Mordrem Guard as well?

Neither had direct contact with the sleeping mordremoth, but were rather awakened to the buried facet of their nature of which the were unaware.

Neither was “corrupted” in the proper sense. Scarlet’s experiences in Omadd’s machine, and Aerin’s similarly mind-opening experience while training with the zephyrites only allowed them to percieve their nature, and being weak willed they succumbed to it. Basically they were running on mordy’s “failsafe” while Mordrem guard are the result of an awake and active mordremoth directly influencing physical corruption and actively giving orders to minions and facets of himself to do the same