Guild Wars 2

so i was running around orr and i can see alot of what looks like the tops of buildings
i was wondering how deep orr is buried
i mean i know alot of orr is still under the water
but how tall were the buildings?
i mean we will never get to explore this awesome city so any ore i can get about it would be awesome

I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Only some coast is still sunken, most of Orr is now above water, and we explore over half of the peninsula when combining Arah story and explorable to the three open world maps.

And Orr isn’t a city. Perhaps you mean Arah, but we explore all (or almost all) of it in the dungeon’s explorable mode.

How deep is your Orr?

lol
yes true i think i did mean arah but it seemed to me like the city more orr (HAHAHA im so funny) less encompassed the entire landmass that was/is orr

I was under the impression that ther was still a fair bit under water but with that i may be wrong but im asking about the parts that have surfaced
because while in some places it looks like we are running on the ground (where you see stairs and such) but at other times your running on broken domes which were once roofs

it could be a case of oh the roof collapsed and is now on the ground but id imagine there would be more rubble if an entire building collapsed

and then there is the concept art for the city
it looks like very tall buildings with gardens and pathways on the roofs
so could we actually be just running on sand and acumulated dirt ect and on the tops of these buildings?

and if so…
How deep is Orr?

Arah was only in the very center of Orr. Outside Arah there are other towns and villages: the Village of Ewan, Wren, the various Bayhts we see were all towns and villages of Orr pre-Cataclysm.

There is a bit underwater, but nothing beyond what we can see in-game by all appearances. The vast majority of Orr is now above water. And that which isn’t is mostly the western and eastern coasts (such as around the Royal Forum and Observatory in Straits of Devastation, or Malchor’s workshop in Malchor’s Leap, or the odd underwater structures we see in Cursed Shore – though whether that was above water once or not is subject to debate, given the existence of the Orrian ports just south of them – maybe they were dams or man-made canals).

We’re on the ground for the most part, not on roofs. There is concept art of huge structures but those would likely be temples, the six gargantuan arches, or just conceptual art – not actually representing what made it in-game, but instead just ideas for what Orr could look like. Concept art is not the best identifier for how things should be.

We know we’re on actual soil and not roofs because we see miners and have plants growing. I don’t recall any “buildings with gardens on the roofs” as you put it – only structural gardens I recall in concept art was for Divinity’s Reach, not Orr.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

(…) or just conceptual art – not actually representing what made it in-game, but instead just ideas for what Orr could look like. Concept art is not the best identifier for how things should be.

(…) I don’t recall any “buildings with gardens on the roofs” as you put it – only structural gardens I recall in concept art was for Divinity’s Reach, not Orr.

Kinda late to bring this one back to life, but need to point out a few things.
I think OP was referencing the Arah loading screen (also shown during the Arah dungeon cinematic).

Though I do agree conceptual art is generally a case of “could” not “should”, in this case all written info we have seem to be much closer to the art than what the in-game result is.
We don’t have much though. Mainly the GW1 manuscripts, the rest is mostly reiterations of the same descriptions.

The huge gap between what Orr/Arah has been pictured to be, and what it finally appeared like, is something that has been leaving me with a grudge ever since launch.

What’s been said / what we know:
(disclaimer: posting some statements from Wiki without checking sources)

• “Orr was a vibrant, proud, and prosperous nation”
• “Its citizens were the favored of the gods”
• “marble streets of Arah”
• Arah was the capital of Orr for over 1000 years
• Founded by the Gods themselves
• For nearly a millennium the Orrians acted as custodians of the city of Arah

Concept art by Daniel Dociu:

• “King and Gods”: only shows Doric and the Gods, no arcitecture.
• “Orr”: shows the grand city after the Cataclysm. Impressive arcitecture. Stone structures, partly carved into the cliff faces.
• “City of Gods”, shows an appearance quite similiar to the Hall of Heroes

I always favoured that last one, since I imagined the city would indeed look a lot similiar to HoH – if it was, as said, built (or at least founded) by the Gods themselves.

For me, all the info we’ve been given conflicts greatly with what we see in-game. Where are all the buildings of this grand city we’ve been told about? Orr’s people lived “in the shadows of Arah”. Doesn’t that indicate huge towering buildings?

Where are all the buildings of its residents, the shops, the craftsmen’s quarters, the millitary barracks, academies for schools of magic. Dust, dirt, a bunch of statues and a thousand circles. Is that it?

Or, is it simply the result of gameplay mechanics and limitations?
To be honest, I’d be quite ok with that. BTW: I think George R.R. Martin has a wonderful way of approaching lore inconsistencies in his world. He’s quite open about it, and has several times gone back to correct errors made – making credits to his to the keen eye of his readers.

George R.R. Martin

Littlefinger gives a speech where he talks about the Iron Throne made from thousands of swords and he says “Nah, I counted them once, and there’s only 137…”

It’s an interesting speech – that’s true in the show.
But it is not true in the books – because there really is thousands of swords in the Iron Throne in the books.

“When truth and legend disagree, print a legend.”

don’t forget that at least one ‘town’ of Orr survived sinking – in the realm of torment.

I imagine most of the buildings collapsed when Orr sunk beneath the ocean, as the seismic force produced by an entire nation sinking beneath the ground would be equal to a magnitude 30 earthquake, literally turning buildings that had low or mediocre reinforcement to dust. even with magical reinforcement that’s still a fairly large number. (where did i get that number? well imagine if literally everything in a 60 mile radius of you suddenly dropped about 100 feet or more all at once. building weren’t designed to be dropped you know.)

Carlin Sanders.3587:

don’t forget that at least one ‘town’ of Orr survived sinking – in the realm of torment.

What are you talking about? From what I remember, everything in the RoT was Margonite structures, built in the once-sea east of Orr.

Not quite, Aaron and Carlin. The only structure said to have been pulled into the Realm of Torment was the Temple of the Six Gods that laid on the shore of the Crystal Sea. The Margonite structures seen in the Realm of Torment were, by all indication, built within the Realm of Torment – used as their prisons, in some cases.

The only human-Margonite-built structures we have seen were at Thirsty River – which were literally their ships torn down and rebuilt into tower-like structures.

Carlin, I think you’re mistaking the fact that many souls caught in the Cataclysm were sent to the RoT, but there’s no indication of Orrian structures being sent there.

Carlin Sanders.3587:

I imagine most of the buildings collapsed (…) as the seismic force produced by an entire nation sinking beneath the ground would be equal to a magnitude 30 earthquake (…) imagine if literally everything in a 60 mile radius of you suddenly dropped about 100 feet or more all at once. building weren’t designed to be dropped you know.)

That’s a perfectly sound theory, but that would mean that the Cataclysm should have had the same effect on the huge circles we see all around Arah and Orr, and the various temples, no? What about the farm houses in the village of Ewan... why do these remain seemingly intact, while not one single building can be seen within the great city of Arah?

It doesn’t seem the Cataclysm had a “pulverising” effect. Nothing indicates that. If it collapsed as you say, we should at least have seen large piles of rubble and the remains of the city foundations (roofs and walls are the first to give in to seismic forces, while bottom foundations withstand almost everything).

Keep in mind that Arah was the epicenter of the Cataclysm.

Also keep in mind that we don’t really see adequate amount of housing in most villages, and that things are scaled down to be playable.

And also keep in mind that while called a city… when it was built it was also off bounds. And given the names, only the highest of Orrian nobility lived in Arah after the Exodus. So it would be like a series of massive estates.

Was Arah really at the epicenter?

GW1 Wiki

In panic, Vizier Khilbron searched forbidden texts and discovered a scroll that had been hidden away by the Five Gods. He stole it from Arah, taking it to his tower, and there, unleashed its might upon the land. With a flash of light and explosion of flame the nation of Orr crumbled and was lost into the depths of the sea. The Cataclysm defeated the Charr—but was also the end of Orr.

I guess it’s impossible to know 100 % sure where the epicenter really was (since all first hand witnessed presumably died in the event), but doesn’t most of the few sources we have indicate that the epicenter would be his tower?

Anyways, my point remains the same. There is a lot of well preserved ruins in Arah (circles and the like), but absolutely no remains of any building foundations. That is probably because it wasn’t designed as a city when it was built for gw2. I reckon it was designed as a dungeon with focus purely on gameplay mechanics rather than creating an appearance that was both realistic and true-to-lore.

I understand the reasons, though I don’t agree with them being good enough. After all, this isn’t the only location that contradicts lore and previous history. The locations that did appear in gw1 and did not appear (or drastically changed appearance) is a sad example of that.

What I’m trying to say is: to me it is evident, without any doubt, that in-game Orr and especially Arah isn’t the same Arah as we were told about in gw1 (and to some degree still being told about in gw2). Do we disagree about that?

Then, my question is: which version is the “correct” one…
Is it the lore version, which has been changed for playable reasons, or the other way around?

Arah story mode cinematic shows Arah at the epicenter, I believe.

Honestly, the location of the Vizier’s Tower makes little lore sense. That would be deep in charr contested area by the time of the Cataclysm. It’s possible he had two towers, and that was more of some sort of summer estate. Hard to say.

The cinematic just shows us Arah, then skips to Khilbron without really telling us anything we didn’t already know.

I also find the tower’s location extremely odd. It might be possible though that “the gates of Arah” is refering to another entrance we don’t know about at the city’s east side. After all, the Charr approached Arah by foot. If there was a quicker more direct route, they most surely would have taken it.

Titus.4285:

The cinematic just shows us Arah, then skips to Khilbron without really telling us anything we didn’t already know.

I also find the tower’s location extremely odd. It might be possible though that “the gates of Arah” is refering to another entrance we don’t know about at the city’s east side. After all, the Charr approached Arah by foot. If there was a quicker more direct route, they most surely would have taken it.

Maybe, but the presence of searing cauldrons around the Vizier’s Tower certainly suggests the charr were set up in that area one way or another.

considering the magnitude of the destruction of the spell, and the location of the casting, there is no rule that says the caster of the spell couldn’t have targetted the center of Arah. an elementalist can choose (up to 1200 range away) the epicenter of Meteor Shower. Vizier Khilbron probably did the same from his tower: chose the epicenter of his spell.

However, Nightfall clearly indicated that Vizier was using one of Abaddon’s spells, and therefore the spell essentially had a booby trap: it turned Khilbron into The Lich. it’s also very possible there was a second booby trap: to destroy what the caster was trying to protect. basically, Khibron targeted the Searing cauldrons and the spell backfired much to Abadon’s delight.

Abadon literally means Destroyer, and there is a definite reason why his magic was forbidden and hidden by the other five gods.

[BACK ON TOPIC]

there is a single massive structure that reaches into the clouds, presumably arching into the center of Arah. this structure can be seen from Caer Shadowfain Waypoint in the north of Cursed Shore. (from the waypoint, look to the northwest.) it’s the tallest structure i’ve seen in game.

EDIT: Also, Arah has been underwater for some 150 years (148 actually. Orr sunk in 1071 AE, and rose in 1219 AE.) that is plenty of time for the water’s currents to move sand around and bury buildings. that doesn’t even account for the massive displacement of of water and the consequention erosion, by the sinking of Orr, and then the second displacement and further water erosion during the rising of Orr…

Titus, you have the order reverse. It shows Khilbron then Arah, sinking while engulfed in blue light.

Plus, a skill challenge in Cursed Shores points to the charr being on the western end of Orr. Which doesn’t make sense as there is a river from Arah to eastern Orr, and there is a docked Orrian flagship on the Arah side river banks. So why coulsnt/didnt The charr assault via there? (or the Pact for that matter).

@Forgotten Legend: Erm, actually nothing says the Forbidden Scrolls was “Abaddon’s magic” or that it was boobytrapped or that it turned Khilbron into a lich. What was said in Nightfall was that Khilbron was tricked into using the scrolls by the demon Razekiel (sp?), though this isn’t directly true as what the demon seemed to do was convert Khilbron’s faith, and that he was a follower of Abaddon.

As to the giant arch, there are actually six – all lead to the temple of the pantheon in the dead center of Arah and Orr. Two head west into Cursed Shore (you can see one at the temple of Grenth on the map), one heads north towards Malchor’s Leap (though we don’t ever see the other end), and one goes just south if the temple of Balthazar(which can also be seen on the map, Iirc). The others head southwest and south.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What was said in Nightfall was that Khilbron was tricked into using the scrolls by the demon Razekiel (sp?), though this isn’t directly true as what the demon seemed to do was convert Khilbron’s faith, and that he was a follower of Abaddon.

There’s no reason it couldn’t be had both ways, of course. Khilbron could’ve been a follower of Abaddon without being so fanatic that he’d willingly cast a spell that kills himself, thus leading Razakel to opt for trickery.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Titus, you have the order reverse. It shows Khilbron then Arah, sinking while engulfed in blue light.

Sorry, you’re right about that. My point was merely that it doesn’t specifically show whether or not Arah was at the epicenter.
As Forgotten Legend pointed out though, it’s very much possible that the spell cast location and spell epicenter doesn’t have to be the same place.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

there is a river from Arah to eastern Orr, and there is a docked Orrian flagship on the Arah side river banks. So why couldnt/didnt The charr assault via there? (or the Pact for that matter).

I never noticed the SP stating charr being on the western side, so that’s interesting (though it doesn’t make much logical sense to me). The charr have never been a seafaring race. They approached Arah by foot paw, and presumably from the North, North-East, or East (at least initially, then decided to go west for some sightseeing I guess :P).

I don’t see why they would focus on Arah, rather than all of Orr, if it wasn’t the epicenter. Plus, iirc, we see a single point that sinks first and the sinking/glowing spreads out in all directions.

The charr invasion basically went the same path as the Pact invasion, for those who notice the clues. They assaulted via Izz-al-Din and traveled along the northern path to Cursed Shore and the Gates of Arah.

Well, they’d focus on Arah because it’s the Arah dungeon. And the sinking of Orr (and Arah) would be a very central story to tell.
Don’t get me wrong though. I too think Arah would have been the epicenter.
Though it has never been said specifically, I’ve always felt that it’s been more or less an obvious thing. Also, the gw1 map – seeing as how the peninsula has “ruptured” at the center – supports that theory.

I’m just saying that “well, we don’t know for 100% sure, do we?”.

Interesting part about the charr invasion clues. Got to check them out. Maybe Arah was built (walled) in such a way that it was impossible (or very hard) to impenetrate the city from anywhere else than at the west gates.

I’d say that Orr currently rests at about sea level, possibly a little above.