Guild Wars 2

Title says it all. If you were ANet’s Executive Idea-Guy, how would you design the fights with the other Elder Dragons?
As a reminder for those who don’t want to double-check names and things like that:
-Primordus, the Fire/Lava Dragon under the surface of Tyria.
-Kralky, the Crystal Dragon in the deserts to the east.
-Jormag, the Ice Dragon in the northern mountains.
-Mordremoth, the Jungle Dragon, probably in the Maguuma Jungle.
-Bubbles, the Deep Sea Dragon(A.K.A. the DSD) in the deep sea of Tyria, cutting off any contact from the outside.

-Primordus: underground, on a bridge built by the dwarves inside a gigantic cavern, mines of moria style. “You shall not pass, motherkitten!”
- Kralkatorrik: In the crystal desert, with an army of asuran golems, to honor Snaff. And there should be a Snaff-masterpiece golem, about half the size of the dragon himself.
-Jormag: On a corrupted mountain peak in the far north, near the old Norn settlements. He may control the mountain, but the norn will answer to their ancestors and take back what was theirs.
-Mordremoth: A spiritual battle within the dream, the dragon corrupts the dream, but we have the memories of our deceased heroes living within the dream, fighting besides us. (If the jungle dragon actually has some sort of connection with the sylvari…)
-Bubbles: With ships on open waters, while he swims near the surface of the sea. He uses his appendages to strike our ships above the waters, while his immense body remains under water, to create a nice kraken-like sea monster feeling.

And I shall battle all these great creatures in the nude…

The Deep Sea Dragon?

Go on YouTube and look up “Ceadeus” from Monster Hunter Tri.

A Godzilla-like Kaiju battle between 2 ED’s that we lured into each other with an elaborate trick. Preferably Primordus and Jormag. *

• And some Canthans screaming their names and then running away. <3

Well there are special thoughts that go into each one. Like the Pacts current airships and lasers would be kinda useless against Jormag and Kralky without some major modifications. I mean with a thought Jormag could start stealing the minds of the people within the ship, making them turn against their friends and Kralky could just blast the ship with his breath turning everyone into branded. On top of that at a whip Kralky can turn into a sandstrom… how do you fight a sandstorm?

I personally think it’ll be very interesting seeing how they treat the other Elder Dragons. I’m excited

BuddhaKeks.4857:

A Godzilla-like Kaiju battle between 2 ED’s that we lured into each other with an elaborate trick. Preferably Primordus and Jormag. *

• And some Canthans screaming their names and then running away. <3

Primordius and Kralk. Turning the desert into a glassy mess as they fight, leaving something completely unique and alien-like behind for later exploration.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

A Godzilla-like Kaiju battle between 2 ED’s that we lured into each other with an elaborate trick. Preferably Primordus and Jormag. *

• And some Canthans screaming their names and then running away. <3

Primordius and Kralk. Turning the desert into a glassy mess as they fight, leaving something completely unique and alien-like behind for later exploration.

Jade Sea all over again, lol.

Narcemus.1348:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

A Godzilla-like Kaiju battle between 2 ED’s that we lured into each other with an elaborate trick. Preferably Primordus and Jormag. *

• And some Canthans screaming their names and then running away. <3

Primordius and Kralk. Turning the desert into a glassy mess as they fight, leaving something completely unique and alien-like behind for later exploration.

Jade Sea all over again, lol.

No, no, Jade Sea would be different than this. The Jade Sea was waves being turned to stone. This is sand being turned molten and disturbed, maybe even flung from the battle area to impact elsewhere and kick up large sandy boulders whose hearts are glassy.

And glass isn’t like the Jade Sea, it’s brittle. You’d see structures which broke and toppled, shattering in strong winds. What would be left after even a week would not look like the Jade Sea so much as a glassy crater. Personally, if I had the resources I’d try to replicate the whole thing with a steel-lined sandbox.

Overall? Ignoring the limitations of GW2’s game engine I’d like something like Shadow of the Colossus but mixing in unique Guild Wars lore elements to it. Just never the whole “attack from inside!” cuz logically speaking that makes no bloody sense since such concepts always have us outside organs despite being swallowed…

But not ignoring GW2 engine limitations? Probably along these lines:

• Primordus: Deep underground, perhaps beneath one of the cities (or Dominion of Winds since that seems to be the latest destroyer activity location?) that’s being threatened of collapse due to his tunneling to give a sense of urgency, in “narrow” tunnels (I’m under the belief that Primordus is the smallest of the Elder Dragons and based on GW1, he would be, possibly even only half the size of Zhaitan (which would be like twice the size of Tequatl – still large but small for ED size)). Have him constantly moving, making “new” tunnels (since the map cannot be infinitely large, there’d obviously be a limit and thus some circling – mechanically, this would be done by false walls being destroyed as Primordus moves, and re-created after some time). Destroyers forming as Primordus clears more of the underground. After enough damage is dealt – cinematic that “teleports” folks to a certain spot in the tunnel cycle, where Primordus then deviates from the previous path and enter a new area: a humongous cavern containing one of the ancient asuran cities (like Quora Sum). Climatic fight on a cliff’s edge, destroyers climbing up them to defend their master until he’s slain, his fiery body cooling off as it dies and felled down the cliff where a soft orange light of flame disappears after a crashing sound.
• Jormag: In the skies over the inland sea Jormag created, a fleet of kodan Sanctuaries and Pact airships, the waters full of Drakkars and the sky of Claws of Jormag. Glory of Tyria joins in to have its laser reflected. Midway through the battle, shatter Jormag’s wings (I suppose that may be a bit too much like the Claw of Jormag fight though?) to hold a ground battle where Jormag will become a living blizzard as part of his attacks, you fighting with magic akin to the Avatar of Balthazar which transforms you into larger beings of power, allowing you to fight ice with fire, and on more equal standing personally.
• Kralkatorrik: Travel to the Crystal Desert, meeting with Glint’s children that hatched and survived the 250 years, just to find out that Kralkatorrik invaded the Mists via the Tomb of the Primeval Kings (akin to Jormag, but personally rather than just his forces), so you follow through fighting through Branded in Fractals-like and GW1 Rift like places for a climatic battle at the Hall of Heroes, an army of angry souls joining you (Kralkatorrik seems incapable/unwanting of corrupting spirits) as you ride atop Glint’s children (acting mechanically like the GW1 Junundu Wurms or Siege Devourer) giving you free z-axis movement for a full out aerial battle during which Kralkatorrik will turn into a living sandstorm on occasion (just like in Edge of Destiny).

(more in next post – kitten 5001 character limit!)

• DSD: Deep beneath the waves of the Unending Ocean, within the ancestral krait homeland, facing a horde of krait (I hold to a theory that their prophets are actually the DSD/the DSD’s champions, so I think they’ll eventually turn to be akin to the Sons of Svanir but for the DSD). The obelisks that the krait worship are not only monuments but tools used to defeat the DSD’s champions during the last rise, so we’d utilize them in an underwater battle – and since it’s underwater, no need to be in ships to control the z-axis filled battle. Having the DSD swimming around you while you’re unprotected to witness the full sheer size of the Elder Dragon, it capable of just swallowing you whole at any moment you don’t remain surrounded by other things, and it’s mere passing capable of knocking you back a long distance.
• Mordremoth (aka jungle dragon): West of the Maguuma Wastes, near a Bloodstone (the fourth of five to be discovered), a Malyck’s brethren joining the battle utilizing treants (oakhearts, etc.) to fight against Mordremoth’s minion. Vines and other vegetation quickly sprouting, covering any machinery around, rusting them away with fungus spores and mold, and the only way to fight Mordremoth itself is to utilize the Bloodstone which it hasn’t been able to tap (sealed by Doric’s blood and all – this would bring in the humans’ importance for fighting an Elder Dragon, since the biggest chance, Zhaitan, was a sylvari-fest). Utilizing the Bloodstone, you become capable of utilizing super-charged magic that’s too much for even an Elder Dragon to handle (too much food is dangerous after all!) or perhaps Bloodstone+Forgotten magic, utilizing a powerful source of magic and mixing it with magic that cannot be corrupted by Elder Dragons to make powerful magic that’s lethal to the ED.
• Purely Speculative 7th ED: In Cantha, the Elder Sky/Star Dragon that’s speculated loosely to be related to Kuunavang (it’s a small possibility at this point, with only minor references of Kuunavang being akin to Glint (even post EoD release there was one small mention of this). Having the Luxon leviathan ships merged with charr and asuran technology – picture large mechanical crabs crossing the land (that was possible even in GW1!) equipped with magitech and charr-tech weaponry, fighting against a dragon of air, lightning, and stars. Perhaps taking place over a semi-petrified Jade Sea (I’m of the hope that by GW2’s time the Jade Sea and Echovald Forest are only half-petrified, because I want the Jade Sea to have floating chunks of jade islands in it).

Smartarse answer:
Preferably upclose and personal instead of on an airship continously pressing “2”. ;p

Well for Zhaitan, I would have loved it ArenaNet made use of his creative body.

We know for a fact Zhaitan’s body comprises of smaller dragons. So why not defeat the small appendages one by one?

Perhaps he could have grabbed onto the ship like a kraken-type monster with his tentacles, and poked his head up through the bow of the ship and you had to slay the individual dragon-tongues?

Perhaps Zhaitan could have succeeded destroying your ship but only after sustaining damage and being grounded. So the players and the Pact hop ontop of his actual body where you make your way to the head while combating the individual “limbs” of Zhaitan attacking you.

You should have been able to make your way to the head finally and destroyed it once and for it.

Zhaitan should have also been in the Personal Story rather than a Dungeon. The use of “Zelda”-style bosses with smart dodges would have been very good. See: Vexas’ Lab for solo-bosses done correct.

Actual answer:

Personally I’d like to see something like the following:

Zhaitan Skirmish – As it is, with the airship and Arah Story mode. :P

Jormag Skirmish – King of the North
Starting with an escort event from Hoelbrak all the way to the top of Frostgorge, players must defend a pitifully weak elderly Norn who happens to know how to melt the ice pass that leads to Jormag’s hunting grounds. With the pact still busy keeping the Risen at bay this is purely a player event, though maybe a handful of sacrificial norn warriors can come along. Provided the elderly guy reaches where he’s going he opens a path to a new map which everyone can access… for 10 minutes. After 10 minutes the pass blocks up again and people cannot enter. Those inside the new area can leave though but may have a hard time getting back. It is important to note that there are “zero” waypoints in this new region. Access only from the escort event whose window is anywhere once a day.

The new map is a large wasteland of ice with not many mobs, even the ice brood don’t like it much here – however they all have infinite leash (will chase you forever). Furthermore the entire area is covered in a blinding blizard like the frost fractal. Anyone in the blizzard suffers cold damage over time and is chilled (like Claw of Jormag’s breath) unless they are near a lit campfire. Campfires are scattered across the map, but can and will be put out by mobs. Jormag and two of his claw lts show up. The entire map is Jormag’s playground and he can and will fly up into the thick snow and reappear elsewhere. He also doesn’t need to summon adds since the usual spawn will fill that role. Defeating Jormag won’t “kill” him. He just flees to parts you cannot follow but it is enough to get his treasure chest, clear the area of the blizzard, and rescue all those norn women he captured. This also leaves the door open to face him again later, provided you haven’t done the Jormag finisher quest (below). If you have, this place is a different instance of rainbows and unicorns for you. ;P

Zhaitan Finisher – He didn’t quite die. Again. Yet.
Trahearne (ofcourse – it’s HIS story) learns about Zhaitan’s survival through a dream / the pale tree or whatever and accompanies you with pact forces (go Destiny’s Edge) to storm Arah Path X [party dungeon]. After smashing through the risen and maybe a pair of Sunless ones the injured and weakened elder dragon (can’t fly) manages a surprise attack gruesomely killing everyone’s “favourite” cabbage. Stock standard combat can follow, with people just trying to avoid the front part of Zhaitan and his silly adds until he “dies” more permanently. Maybe Zojja freezes him, or Garm turns him into a chew toy. Whatever.

Bubbles Skirmish – Terror of the Deep
The Pact has decided to try reclaim the Quaggan capital deep beneath the ocean. 2 new expansive and purely acquatic maps should be added – neither of which have ANY way points, filled with all sorts of sea dwelling baddies and dynamic events pertaining to the Pact’s quest. On the further map, Bubbles can appear anytime once a day and must be fought off to hold the Quaggan capital (with destroyable / self repairing structures for more epicness). Defeating her just makes her flee into the unfathomable depths, but does leave treasure!

Mordremoth – The Stuff of Nightmares
Totally stealing whoever posted that this guy is associated with the Nightmare Court. He will best work as another story arc, involving mind controlled / crazy folk speaking about Cthul.. I mean.. Mordremoth. :P After extensive investigation the player and his party will enter a it’s lair – a dungeon instance, probably Nightmare Court related and at the end get “brain whacked” by Mordremoth himself, throwing them into a Mad King’s clocktower type jumping puzzle wherein they have to jump up a helix of floating platforms while escaping the ever increasing fog and avoiding dragon fire (he’s flying around shooting at you). Every so often a larger platform is reached and the dragon will land for close quarters combat. In the nightmare he can do all sorts of wierd stuff, maybe even summon the Mad King. If the party can’t kill him quick enough it’s back to jumping up the helix to the next big platform before the fog reaches them. Upon the dragon’s defeat the party wakes up to find the -actual- Mordremoth, a weak and old creature easily slain in the waking world.

Kralktorik – Crystaline Grudge Match
This one also works better as a story centric dragon. The Pact gets wind of where the mighty Kralktorik has fled (after killing a few people including Snaff) and Destiny’s Edge wants a piece of him. Ironically so do you (literally) as Kralk’s crystal heart may actually be able to kill Jormag (it can somehow “shatter” him). New map, no way point as usual full of branded scum and a dungeon instance (set piece, sorry) to trigger the battle. The “dungeon” is exactly the same as the overland map pretty much, just that Kralk is flying around the whole map causing chaos. Many many pact forces and emplaced guns to help though, which is good since Kralk will be summoning Shatterer dragon type helpers every now and then. Ideally most of Destiny’s Edge also bites the dust in this battle, leaving the player “commander” as the last hero standing.

Jormag Finisher – Heartbreaker
Has to be done right after a Jormag Skirmish event (above), the player must chase the dragon into a deep cave solo-dungeon (yes I lied earlier when I said he retreats to somewhere you cannot follow :P) and provided you defeat all of the ice brood or whatever he has guarding him you then face the weakened winged monster yourself and basically have to use Kralk’s sharp body part on Jormag’s heart (which you may have to use normal combat to expose first) and then shatter the ice dragon for good, taking its heart. Note: If you kill Jormag, you can no longer participate in the Jormag Skirmish instances on that character.

Bubbles Finisher – Depths not so Unfathomable
Almost the same as the Jormag Finisher, this has to be done right after a Bubbles Skirmish event (Above), the player chases the dragon into a deep cave (party allowed) where they have to navigate past Karka and whatever other minions Bubbles has down in the deep. Finale is basically getting up to Bubbles to make her swallow Jormag’s heart, freezing her insides – then the party can shatter her into tiny little bits. Once you’ve killed Bubbles you can no longer enter instances where she can spawn for her Skirmish event.

Primordus – You won’t like him because he’s Angry
kitten off that you’ve slain his siblings Primordus starts causing earthquakes and sending destroyers and just generally trying to end the world. Reaching his lair is much like the Jormag Skirmish event of a really long escort quest and provided the squishy npc reaches the destination, he opens a path into the lava/volcano/cave/whatever into a new area (no waypoints as per standard) and the doorway remains open for 10 minutes for anyone and everyone to use. After that time, people outside cannot enter though people inside can leave. Primordus has no adds. It’s just him in a huge chamber of lava and jumping puzzle like stones that drift around. He flies and breathes fire, knocking people into the lava and then lands on larger platforms for melee, after which he breaks them (they become stones again) and he flies around.

Given that I see him as a “final” type boss, anyone that dies in this chamber cannot be revived and are immediately warped out to their home city’s medical facility where they find all their equipped gear broken and their level reset to level 1. I was initially going for permadeath but I think that would cause a strain on the character names server. ;p

I’d imagine that most of the dragon fights will be like Zhaitan, but I wouldn’t mind an optional ULTRA hard side fractal (not connected to FotM, other than location) just for a dragon fight, based in a what-if? universe. Dessa would say she discovered a new fractal that is causing a large disturbance, and you would have to investigate it… at your own risk.

Like for Zhaitan, what if it was able to take down the Glory of Tyria after the first laser? You, your party, and Destiny’s Edge now have to face down the dragon head on, without the support of the Pact and its weaponry.

The reward for completion would be a unique high end weapon like GW1’s destroyer/tormented/oppressor weapons.

Going along with Anet’s love for pop culture references in game, if the in-game model size of elder dragons is same as Zhaitan in Arah dungeon story mode, I’d suggest the following sequence for subsequent elder dragon kitten kicking:

1) finish off a small army of followers;
2) finish off a champion/lieutenant;
3) grawl fractal end boss style combat i.e. initial straight up battle with dragon, when its hp reach 75% / 50% /25% mark, destroy its stash of magic items nearby before it consume them to regenerate hp.
4) near end of dragon’s hp. the giant from cliffside fractal may pop in at the background through fractal/time-space tear. To enlist the giant’s help to fight the dragon, all players have to bow within 3-5 seconds. The giant, remember his debt to you for saving his kitten back at the fractal, will help by sitting on the dragon for massive damage, thus ending its life effectively. Still more believable end for a seemingly invincible elder dragon than death by pew pew pew.

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Jormag Skirmish – King of the North

Zhaitan Finisher – He didn’t quite die. Again. Yet.

Bubbles Skirmish – Terror of the Deep

Jormag Finisher – Heartbreaker

Bubbles Finisher – Depths not so Unfathomable

Ugh. No, thank you. I don’t want to be fighting half of the Elder Dragons twice. I want new enemies, so lets just leave the fail that was Zhaitan behind us (maybe improve the fight but eh) and NOT fight him or any other Elder Dragon twice. Please.

And no waypoint maps? Catastrophe.

I wouldn’t mind some sort of event that opens up a way to the area you fight the dragon in, but only opening the door for 10 mins each day? How about I do it once and its open for 24 hours, then wait a few days, or you have to do it each week to keep it open.

Making things ultra-hard with no waypoints and no way back in doesn’t make things better, just harder. Dragons should be difficult, but not to the point its just excessively frustrating.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The Deep Sea Dragon?

Go on YouTube and look up “Ceadeus” from Monster Hunter Tri.

Only the 2nd half of the battle, though. I don’t want to spend half an hour poking at him while he slowly ambles along, completely ignoring the player.

When I heard we were fighting Zhaitan on a ship, I was hoping it’d be more like the Jhen Mohran fight!

Essjay.2567:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The Deep Sea Dragon?

Go on YouTube and look up “Ceadeus” from Monster Hunter Tri.

Only the 2nd half of the battle, though. I don’t want to spend half an hour poking at him while he slowly ambles along, completely ignoring the player.

When I heard we were fighting Zhaitan on a ship, I was hoping it’d be more like the Jhen Mohran fight!

From the way I’ve heard that fight described, it’s “close enough”.

Edit: Adding.

I don’t want a direct translation of Monster Hunter fights. That game has a far more forgiving stamina system for one thing, and for another it KILLS a lot more players than those who can actually get good enough to reach the epic fights. For anyone reading this who knows the series, realize this.

More people don’t make it past Rathalos/Tigrex/Khezu in the Freedom Unite, or Rathian in Tri (Wii) than those who make it far enough to see epic fights. Or what could be considered epic fights. Golden Rajang. Fatalis. Alatreon. To a lesser difficulty level, Kushala Daora or Lagiacrus.

However . . . for epic boss battles? That’s most of what Monster Hunter is, by its nature.