Guild Wars 2

I’m a bit confused about the Maguuma jungle. I know it’s mainly the western part of the world where the Asura and Sylvari live, but it seems like Mount Maelstrom is also part of it? I haven’t been to sparkfly fen much, but it’s also considered part of the jungle. Yet there is an sea between these regions… Southsun cove isn’t part of it, yet it’s right in between. Was Orr a part of the jungle before it sank? How does this thing work?

It’s a bit weird, but as I understand it Maguuma technically is used to refer to three different things.
1.) The Maguuma Jungle. This was a region in Guild Wars 1, and the term is still used as a blanket term for all the regions west of Kryta in Guild Wars 2 which are now where the jungle used to be, but the Maguuma Jungle does not actually exist anymore.
2.) The Maguuma Wastes. Sometime between Guild Wars 1 and 2, the northern part of the Maguuma Jungle dried out, becoming the Maguuma Wastes. The region is largely inaccessible right now, the northwestern part of Brisban Wildlands being the sole exception.
3.) The “Maguuma explorer” achievement, which is misleading. This use of Maguuma is more of an ecological one, as the plants and animals are similar even though the areas are far from each other. Mount Maelstrom and Sparkfly Fen are not part of the Maguuma jungle- they’re a region of their own, the Steamspur Mountains- but they are part of the Maguuma biome.

Interestingly, in GW1, the southern Maguuma and the Tarnished Coast (which is the name of the jungle covered area between the Steamspur Mountains and the sea) share the same saurian beasts that can’t be found anywhere else. One would assume based on this that once Kryta, too, was as temperate and covered by jungle like these areas were 250 years ago.

The Maguuma Jungle is what lies west of Kryta, and north of the Ring of Fire. It reaches to the western coast, which by all indication is not that far off of the map. Mount Maelstrom and Sparkfly Fen are only part of the Maguuma Jungle (and in GW1, Sparkfly Swamp as part of the Tarnished Coast) in mechanics alone.

@Aaron: Maguuma Wastes is the northern part of the Maguuma Jungle.

@Tuomir: Wrong. The Tarnished Coast is the coast of the Maguuma Jungle – Caledon Forest, the Grove, Rata Sum, and the unexplorable areas between more or less. Sparfkly Fen is, in lore, part of Kryta and Orr. Furthermore, in GW1, Sparkfly Swamp was, a swamp, not a jungle.

Ah, my memory failed me then. And here I was sure I got them the right way around… Oh well, my notion about the saurian beasts still holds, and the swamp doesn’t cover the whole area, but is surrounded by tropical forests.

In GW1, the swamp itself was half of the area, the other half was open with cut down trees. I wouldn’t call either a forest or jungle.

Still hardly relevant, as whether the vegetation of the area constitutes for a jungle or not is besides the point.

On the topic of Orr – the regions of Orr that we see in GW2 seem to have been ‘naturally’ jungle. There’s the corrupted remains of a jungle in Cursed Shore, and the mainland shore in Straits of Devastation is closer in nature to jungle than the others.

It seems that at that rough band of latitude, Tyria is jungle until you hit the Shiverpeaks, while the northern boundary is set by Kryta and the Wastes.

That said, as Konig says, lorewise the Maguuma is technically just on the western side of the Sea of Sorrows. Similarly, the mechanical boundaries of Kryta are quite different to the lore boundaries – Kryta has no practical jurisdiction over Bloodtide at all, and it’s questionable how much of Gendarran Fields (note that Applenook has no Seraph presence, and generally seems to be essentially LA’s equivalent of Shaemoor), Kessex Hills, and Harathi Hinterlands are actually Krytan.

Kryta may not have any jurisdiction over Bloodtide coast or Sparkfly Swamp, but it is obvious through ruins that either Kryta or Orr had a presence in both of these locations at some time in the past, though this could have been long before even GW1.

Also, on the topic of monster spawns in GW1, the one asuran zone up to the north, verdant cascades, also holds many of the same monster spawns as any other asuran zone, but I wouldn’t consider it to be a part of the Maguuma Jungle. It was more of a mechanics way of giving all of the asuran zones their own peculiar feel.

Kryta and Orr both definitely had a presence in Sparkfly Fen. Though I don’t think Orr had any known presence in Bloodtide.

I suspect that when Mazdak ruled Kryta prior to the Exodus, “Kryta” consisted of what is in GW2, eastern Gendarran Fields, Lion’s Arch, Bloodtide Coast, and northern Sparkfly Fen. Basically stretching from Mazdark’s tomb to The Shattered Keep (if not a bit further south into halfway through Sparkfly Fen). Would explain why in GW1, modern Gendarran Fields was called North Kryta Province, despite the presence of Demetra and the towns that were around during Thorn’s reign (one being at modern Seraph’s Landing, the other having been wiped clean from the map) which was 200 years prior to GW1.

A lot of the Caledon was also part of Kryta durign Guild Wars 1 – I’d estimate that Riveside Province went down at least as far as modern Ventry Bay, and probably extended into a lot of Metrica Province and eastern Brisban Wildlands as well – not to mention that Loamhurst is off the western edge of modern Queensdale.

Modern Kryta, however, is quite a bit smaller – Old Kryta basically wrapped around the coastline of the Sea of Sorrows, now it’s questionable whether Kryta even has a presence on the bay at all.

Well, it seems that old Kryta in GW1 was also a lot smaller than it had been at it’s prime. It is a nice thing to note though that we have NEVER seen Kryta in it’s prime. GW1 it was right after the charr invasion, which was nearly successful, and in GW2 it’s in the middle of a Centaur invasion. It would have been nice to see the 3 kingdoms in their glory before the Guild Wars, but that’s up to ArenaNet.

draxynnic.3719:

Modern Kryta, however, is quite a bit smaller – Old Kryta basically wrapped around the coastline of the Sea of Sorrows, now it’s questionable whether Kryta even has a presence on the bay at all.

Garrenhoff?

Anywho, based on Seraph dialogues in Brisban Wildlands, I suspect that Kryta extends much further west than Queensdale. Said Seraph mention it being weird that the bandits are so far south – not oddly doesn’t mention it being weird they’re so far west. Why is it not weird they’re so far west, unless north of Brisban is Krytan territory harrassed by bandits. And it would just so happen that north of Brisban would be GW1’s Majesty’s Rest, which held Krytan structures, as well as part of Talmark Wilderness, which is said to be a battleground in The Movement of the World, and contained that one village where the Shining Blade camped at who’s name I can’t recall at the moment.

TBH, I think we only see half of modern Kryta, the other half being off the map to the west and around the former greater Giant’s Basin. Lake Doric (the eastern part of what was greater Giant’s Basin) has a prison camp there, so I wouldn’t doubt other settlements around the body of water.

Garrenhoff is the questionable part. It’s been a while since I’ve visited and I can’t remember if they say anything for or against seeing themselves as part of Kryta, but there’s certainly no Seraph presence, and in general they seem more like a protectorate of Isgarren than part of Kryta (the region is called ’wizard’s fief’, after all). They may still be within the borders of Kryta according to the maps, but the Seraph are all well to the northwest, and it seems to be de facto independent – if the queen had any working claim on it at all, I’d expect at the very least for a representative to be there investigating Isgarren as a potential threat, trying to get Isgarren to throw in with the war against the centaurs, or both.

I suspect Kryta extends further west too – as well as what you’ve said, Loamhurst would also be in the region north of Brisban and west of Queensdale. However, I don’t think there’s any evidence that Kryta has expanded further west than it was in GW1, and I doubt that region would extend to more than a single GW2 map.

It’s certainly possible that there’s more of Kryta further north, although I wouldn’t be surprised either way – I think both Guild Warses have implied that there are dangers to the north of Kryta constraining its growth in that direction, although the nature of the danger has changed. Either way, though, it’s definitely contracted significantly from the south – there was a point where it extended roughly as far south as Southsun Cove, while now its southern border can be found in Kessex and in what used to be called North Kryta Province. Assuming that Kryta doesn’t stretch much further north than we can see, I’d estimate it’s lost roughly half the territory it held when at its peak, even assuming that it still holds the Talmark.

Garrenhoff is Krytan, I’m pretty sure. There’s no Seraph because they’re not needed – why spend personel on a town defended by elementals and seldom attacked as is when they could be more useful defending towns attacked by centaurs or bandits?

Yeah, that reasoning is part of why there’s doubt – with the Seraph stretched thin, there’s not much point defending a location that’s protected by other means. On the other hand, the Seraph are police as well as soldiers, so even a village that’s protected from external threats would be expected to at least have a sheriff. Additionally, Garrenhoff is separated from the rest of Kryta by stretches of wilderness – most other Krytan holdings you could sketch reasonably safe paths by sea or land back to Divinity’s Reach if you discounted threats like centaurs and bandits that are actively engaged in attacking Kryta, but Garrenhoff is seperated from (the rest of) Kryta by a region of territory inhabited by ettins and other monsters that stretches across more than half of the width of the zone.

The gripping hand, though, is that it took us one beta weekend to conclude that Garrenhoff might not be the haven it seems at first glance to be, while Kryta and the Shining Blade have had generations to scrutinise the place. That Isgarren still has the freedom to disappear villagers suggests that either Krytan authorities haven’t been investigating, or their attempts at investigating have been foiled.

I think it’s likely that the people there still think of themselves as Krytan… but it certainly seems possible that for reasons of distance or Isgarren ensuring the disappearance of any Krytan representatives that try to establish their authority there, Divinity’s Reach has no practical influence over the town.

EDIT: There’s also the case that Garrenhoff seems to be a place of choice for people looking to hide out – the Arcane Eye and Canach, for instance. Garrenhoff being outside the jurisdiction of any of the major powers would go a long way to explaining why that is so.

Either way, I currently have a character not far from Garrenhoff – I migth go and investigate sometime soon and see if I can find anything that points either way.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And it would just so happen that north of Brisban would be GW1’s Majesty’s Rest, which held Krytan structures, as well as part of Talmark Wilderness, which is said to be a battleground in The Movement of the World, and contained that one village where the Shining Blade camped at who’s name I can’t recall at the moment.

Dakutu Village

Okay, just visited Garrenhoff, and while nothing I found directly places the village as thinking of it as Kryta or not, there are a few things that are indicative:

First, there is a single token town guard there. He comments that he’s mostly there for show – basically, he mostly lets the elementals handle the towns defence and is there for show and in case there’s a need for a human presence. Tellingly, however, he looks nothing like a Seraph – while this can be explained by not feeling the need to put armour on, what he is wearing isn’t even trying to resemble a noncombat Seraph uniform. Furthermore, nothing in what he says indicates that he was assigned to the role by the Seraph or that he is in any way affiliated with them.

Second, there’s a discussion between a female local and a male tourist, where the former advises the latter not to go past the canyon to the west because the people on the other side are “barbarians”. Now, it’s possible that she’s referring to the ettins, bandits, centaurs and krait that can be found in that area, but west of Garrenhoff also contains the parts of Kessex Hills that are definitely Krytan. if she’s including Krytans under the ‘barbarian’ label, that seems a pretty clear indication that she considers herself, and by extension the other inhabitants of the town, as separate from Krytans.

So… nothing concrete, but so far the only thing that points to the village being Krytan is that it’s a human village in a region that contains Krytan settlements and fortifications, while some of their behaviour seems incongruent with the theory that the village considers itself Krytan.

draxynnic.3719:

a noncombat Seraph uniform

I didn’t know that they had such. The only non-armored Seraph I’ve ever seen are those wrapped in bandages.

As to west of the canyon – I always took it as Ettins since that’s the threat which is obviously right there. I wouldn’t think that Garrenhoff who are nice and cozy in their little home would care that much for the outside world. Self-isolation, I’d believe is happening. And that would probably be why the Arcane Eye has a base there.

I’ve never seen one either, but the point is that he isn’t even wearing Seraph colours that might indicate ‘yeah, there’s no point wearing armour when I can just point tamed elementals at any problem, but I’m still Seraph’.

And regarding that sort of self-isolation… it’s generally something that happens when you don’t really consider yourself part of what you’re isolating yourself from. Chances are the maps still show Garrenhoff as part of Kryta, but in practical terms I don’t think Kryta has any power over it and it’s more accurate to think of it as the wizard’s fief.

Speaking of the borders of Kryta… I’m in the process of repeating Stealing Secrets, and one of the questions asked is what so many Ministry Guard is doing outside of Kryta. Between that and Applenook’s guards being Lionguard rather than Seraph, I think that pretty much clinches it.