Guild Wars 2

Engineers are masters of technology and the pioneers into the new age. Since the fall of the flame legion, Engineers have played a vital role in the shaping of the current world of Tyria.

Since engineering originating mostly with the charr technology, I wonder how human engineers fit in the lore?

Human engineers might originate from their need to survive and adapt, sure. But I’d really like to hear some creative opinions on the matter.

If engineering originated with the charr, I’d say that the profession spread to humans through the charr/human conflict in Ascalon and Ebonhawke. Humans likely killed charr and took their technology and subsequently modified it for human use.

Also, a type of engineering could have risen with the asura, although the tech that you see engineers in-game using is far more reminiscent of the charr than shiny asura tech.

Charr have probably the most advance mechanical engineering in the game with dredge the only race that seems to compete on scale, but engineering in general has been around for a very long time. Infact, if I have it right, the Charr got their start on engineering from abandoned dwarven sites they salvaged.

Certainly in areas such as civil engineering, humans have been very advanced for a very long time, possibly more so than any other race including the charr. The sheer scale of the constructions that humans have built can attest to this. Further, engineering amongst the humans wasnt unknown even back in GW1.

Humans have probably learned alot from the charr. The charr have currently pushed ahead of anyone else and so copying their tech would be of interest to many other races. However the other thing to consider here is that the other races likely would take a different approach to the use of engineering due to cultural concerns. Magic is also far more prolific among human society so it would often be seen as a valid alternative to mechanical solutions.

If we look at the mechanical engineering used by humans it leans towards favoring more domestic uses than the charr such as water pump stations and mechanised irrigation technology. Its unlikely that humans would favor the industrialised development of the charr, particularly due to the worship of Melandru and the damage such industry does to the environment.

The engineer class is fairly new to all the races because they saw how effective it worked for the charr. The Inquest uses both magitech turrets and steam/clockwork-tech turrets but the engineer class in game is really a description of the playable races that take an interest in and utilize the Iron legion steam and clockwork technology. So while any races can create any inventions, they wouldn’t be “engineers” in the sense of the class because then all asura would be engineers no matter what their actual class is.

Engineers did not originate with the charr. Combat engineers – that is, engineers that use portable weapons to fight personally – did.

Humans have had engineers for centuries, though they primarily focused on siege weaponry in regards to military. So human engineers just adopted portable “siege” weaponries (turrets, etc.), likely from the charr (either those in Lion’s Arch or those they killed).

But there were human engineers – militant ones, unlike Lutinz’s apparent claims – long before there were charr engineers. Unless charr had steampunk technology in GW1 that we never saw for unknown reasons (doubtful, since their industrial revolution began with the Flame Legion’s fall).

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ascalon_Engineer
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kournan_Siege_Engineer
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Master_Engineer_Jakumba
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Engineer

Despite being seen as the most conservative of the races, humans are willing to use new technologies and attempt to adapt and compete with the other races. Humans are tinkerers and craftsmen, a few inventors such as Uzolan help to expand the human’s technical knowledge.

To add to the list, ask Luxon, a human nomadic group of canthans without fabrics and proper industry. They were master engineers for their time, frequently using enormous cannons mounted over giant beasts and their ships able to navigate over the Jade sea were masterpieces of engineering too.

Humans used monks and paragons in GW1 which later evolved into guardians, but all races have guardians. In fact, you could say this about all professions. The engineer is the token “not developed by Humans” profession.

Ultimately this is the result of a game being a sequel to a different game. Humans had almost all the lore, and minor races such as the grawl and tengu had more lore than the Norn or the Asura (not to mention races we have not seen in GW2 yet such as the Forgotten, Naga or Mursaat).

The more traditional professions were likely developed by multiple races independently. Thieves, for example, were likely a staple profession in charr society long before the Assassins from Cantha spread their teachings into Tyria.

I think the problem is the word “engineer”. Engineers and even combat engineers have been available to humans since GW1. The current playable class of combat “engineer” we have in GW2 was definatly developed by the Iron Legion charr. This playable class of engineers uses charr clockwork and steam technology because it has been proven effective by the charr when they developed it.

Lore-wise, each engineer has different looking tools. It was said in an interview a long while back (when engineers were revealed) that each race would have their own unique “flair” to it that’s not shown in game – for example, asura would hold a bit more magitech to their engineer stuff (like we see via the Inquest engineers), while sylvari would have more biodegradable things like plant-based fuel for their flamethrowers.

So really, the playable class of combat engineer in GW2 wasn’t solely developed by the Iron Legion. They are made popular and shown to be effective on the front lines by them. They set the trend, so to speak, but it had both existed beforehand and existed independently from the charr – even the modern ones. It’s just that, visually, all player character engineers use charr tech-looking gear.

I think your combining two different interviews on two different topics. I used to do the same thing back when I advocated doffrent turrets for different races. Then I rediscovered the other interview. It was a question of each races take on rifles and pistols. Which aren’t exclusive to engineers. “The asura use them, but usually in combination with arcane aiming and reload systems of their own devising.” http://ashenfold.com/ashenfold-cartel-interview-with-jeff-grubb-and-eric-flannum/

So we do see that asura tend to put their own magitech flavoe into their crafts but….

When asked specifically about the engineer, it is stated that the technology of the engineer began with the charr first and foremost. That it is one of the specialties developed by the iron legion. Eric Flannum then goes on to say it spread from the charr to the other races. http://www.wartower.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=562 And we know what type of technology that Iron Legion specialize in. Clockwork and steamtech. A-net also said that there are less sylvari engineers for “obvious reasons”. We know the sylvari make seed turrets so this disqualifies the idea that any other races technology can completely substitute iron legion tech with the engineer class. This means that while other-than-charr engineers will put some of their own races flaor into the class, (Represented by racial abilities), the engineer class is really a class of people interested in and utilizing Iron Legion tech

So the engineer really was developed by the charr and it spread from there to the other races. the engineer class is based on the tech that the iron legion specialize in. This is why I am now such a big proponent of combatting the idea that asura engineers using charr steam tech are using “ancient tech” for asura standards. because it seems to me that this engineer intewrview confirms that iron legion steam and clockwork tech is new to Tyria.

Neither interview you linked was what I was referring to. It was an interview with Ree, iirc, and there was specific mention of sylvari using biodegradable materials rather than liquid fuel like the charr would for, as an example, flamethrowers. It may not have been “biodegradable” but it did mention that the sylvari use an alternative fuel source for flamethrowers (at least?) than the charr or asura do.

Sadly, it’s been so long I’m unsure where this interview was at.

Steam and clockwork tech is indeed new to Tyria, but the concept of engineers themselves are not. What engineers are today were certainly made mainstream by charr, but engineers – including combat ones – existed beforehand. They just weren’t really capable of defending themselves. Their focus, and probably sole job, was to man the siege weaponry.

Agreed. Combat engineers have been around since GW1. I think the problem is with the term “Engineer” since the class of engineer as we know it has only been around since GW2 yet humans have definatly had combat engineers in their more traditional form since GW1.

That’s very interesting about the material in the fuel. It seems that it is further flavor that is added from the sylvari just as a-net comnfirms that asura add their own magi-tech modifications to fire arms in the form of aiming and reloading modifications. but I don’t think that it excludes the use of clockwork and steam tech from the majority of engineer use across the playable races. I’ll try to hunt for that article you mentioned and see if it conflicts with anything I’ve linked, so far. Hopefully it won’t.

I have something to say to i see no tomorrow i think that when you say that there were asura and charr engineers they make totally different types of engineers the charr are war based asura are more science based plus there wed also the dwarves with there mining and cites and stuff that has to count for something i think all the races eventually made there own type of engineering for the things that race is good at

I never meant that non-charr engineers exclude the steam and clockwork technology of the charr, but rather that they have their own variations of it. Whether it’s in looks, or in what’s made of it, each race’s engineer’s turrets and the like would look different, despite the game utilizing the same models for all.

Same way that each nameless mook isn’t really a clone of all the other nameless mooks of the group.

Ah. I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the other races engineers wouldn’t be using charr tech. We are in complete agreement then.

if you dink around a bit you’ll notice npc’s that use turret models, and in one case a kit model that is different from what engi’s use.

You have asura, slyvari, char, and some odd looking turret models in game. If you run around BC there are some minigun turrets and a flame turret with funky wheels.

I have always surmised that the original plan was to have turrets differ between the races, but it became to art expensive so it was cut, but a lot of the finished models are still in game if you hunt around a bit.

Personally, I think each race should have custom appearance to their things. The point of the engineer to me was inventor, that all my gadgets and gizmos were my own making, would be nice if it was reflected like that.

Eh…. I don’t think it should be custom appearences based on “race”. Lorewise, the engineers are inventors and do make their own gadgets and gizmos. But those gadgets that each engineer makes is steampunk tech. I’d much prefer if there were a few different steampunk styles of each kit to choose from. That would be representative of each individual engineer creating his/her own gear while staying true to the lore of using steampunk tech. It seems to me that a-net tried to do this with the flame thrower by making it look human crafted. It looks way to stylized to be charr designed. They just dropped the ball by giving us only one option no matter what our race or personality.