Guild Wars 2

With this new trailer about her going into the mists? She’s after some sort of entity and wanting to confront it, why a random patch that just puts us into some little side story in the Mists?? She’s clearly chasing whatever this entity is and maybe it’s in the Mists somewhere. Calling it now, she’s after Abbadon, whatever remains of him :-P

That or I guess you guys could argue that there’s a Mist Elder Dragon hahahaha

abaddon is dead. he’s even less likely than a dragon in the mists.

they wanted to tie EotM into the story for some reason, so scarlet it is. until we get a look at the actual content, it’ll just sound like shoehorned excuses.

Why do you think Anet- er- Evon was interested in re-visiting the Fall of Abaddon?

Devs have stated there will be NO Abaddon. He’s death. Done. Kabutt. No chance at all.

Tell me Eluveitie, how does a God in Tyria die? Besides, in the mists, we would’ve been able to face Abaddon! So how is it impossible that some form, like a past form, wouldn’t be able to be in the Mists and affect Scarlet when she peered into the Mists??

webtoehobbit.4201:

Tell me Eluveitie, how does a God in Tyria die? Besides, in the mists, we would’ve been able to face Abaddon! So how is it impossible that some form, like a past form, wouldn’t be able to be in the Mists and affect Scarlet when she peered into the Mists??

we went to the mists to kill it. with our own hands.

ask kormir, she saw everything (see what i did there?)

You know who might not be dead? A servant of Abbadon, maybe he has a high priest or two or five that fled into the mists, I mean mursaat were able to flee Tyria using magic, why would super devout disciples of THE GOD OF MAGIC AND SECRETS not be able to have done the same?

I have a feeling Abbadon is indirectly involved in what ever it is with scarlet, why else would that fractal have been an option?

that fractal is non-canon. didn’t happen, we don’t know what would’ve happened within it, and it doesn’t exist. speculating based on it is a waste of time.

and it would’ve been from the time abaddon was sealed and demoted by the other gods, not his death. he could (and did) whisper all he wanted from the realm of torment, but we kinda killed him for doing that, precisely to stop him from doing that. we kinda had enough after he blew up a country and almost destroyed a whole continent.

Still Bruno, the fractal of Abaddon would’ve happened in the Mists…. can’t deny that, so if the devs were gonna have us experience the fall of ABADDON in the Mists, it kinda is canon cause it would’ve happened, they had no qualms about putting that into the game.

webtoehobbit.4201:

Still Bruno, the fractal of Abaddon would’ve happened in the Mists…. can’t deny that, so if the devs were gonna have us experience the fall of ABADDON in the Mists, it kinda is canon cause it would’ve happened, they had no qualms about putting that into the game.

the mists are literally everything.

the fractals are just retellings of the past. they basically asked us “do you want GW1 lore or GW2 lore for our next fractal?”. it does not imply that abaddon would be tied to the story, no matter how much you wish for it.

“it’s canon because it would’ve happened”, no, it’s not canon because it did not happen. it’s like saying guild wars utopia is canon because they were working on it.

I know the devs say things like this or that character won’t show up but maybe they are just saying that so they don’t ruin the story for us or something. Keeping things interesting and such. Making us stick around to see what is really going on.

Probably shouldn’t believe EVERYTHING the devs say when it comes to future lore and such.

Just saying.

From an interview with Jeff Grubb:

‘Jeff Grubb: The Mists are the building blocks of reality, the proto-reality that exists between the worlds. It is where we find afterlifes and the homes of the various gods and other powerful entities. The Mists also resonate from the worlds around them, such that they form bits of their own reality – islands of existence that reflect the histories of their worlds.’

The problem is that we killed Abbadon IN the mists. So inside that altered reality where space and time doesn’t work as normal we killed him.

Also remember that Scarlet is not new to the mists. She has been sighted inside the reactor metldown fractal. We only don’t know if she traveled there from Tyria, or if it is a resonance of her presence in the real reactor when it blew up.

If there was such a fractal as the fall of abadon, it would be a resonnance of the abadon that got casted into the mists, not the real thing that we killed in the mist. The real thing is dead.

Also cause of the concept of the mists, Scarlet can find anything at the edge of the mists of interest. Who knows, maybe it is abbadon, but for the same thing it can be the place where the gargoyles dissapeared to. Now I think of it. Scarlet is after the ancient knowledge of the great gargoyle in the mists. That must be it :P

It’s Kormir. Her and Scarlet get into a fierce mud-wrestling fight at the center of the Mists and end up destroying each other.

Happy days.

Some are saying it is Dhuum she is after.

Obsidian.1328:

It’s Kormir. Her and Scarlet get into a fierce mud-wrestling fight at the center of the Mists and end up destroying each other.

Happy days.

and then trahearne joins the party.

and then we nuke them.

and then there will be joy, and no one will ever complain about lightning thief characters.

Do we know what happens to things that die in the mists?

Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.

We aren’t returning to Abaddon.

webtoehobbit.4201:

Tell me Eluveitie, how does a God in Tyria die?

Well the Charr seem to have this little theory that the gods aren’t really very godly, they’re just very powerful beings.

CureForLiving.5360:

webtoehobbit.4201:

Tell me Eluveitie, how does a God in Tyria die?

Well the Charr seem to have this little theory that the gods aren’t really very godly, they’re just very powerful beings.

considering one of them has been killed and another “de-god-fied”, i’m willing to side with them.

CureForLiving.5360:

webtoehobbit.4201:

Tell me Eluveitie, how does a God in Tyria die?

Well the Charr seem to have this little theory that the gods aren’t really very godly, they’re just very powerful beings.

Having an ancestor who was present when a god was destroyed? And when another one got imprisoned . . . again . . . I think there was a notable difference between the two events.

Also, if possible, can we clean house of the rest of the Six? I feel the need for a God of War style “kill all the gods” romp.

Well, it is quite obvious it’s Abaddon or something connected to it.

Since they connected the new fractal to Scarlet it means they planned from the beginning the connection – indicating that no matter what the players would choose would still tell the story, just from another perspective.

leman.7682:

Well, it is quite obvious it’s Abaddon or something connected to it.

Since they connected the new fractal to Scarlet it means they planned from the beginning the connection – indicating that no matter what the players would choose would still tell the story, just from another perspective.

would you people please STOP acting like you knew what the abaddon fractal would have?

that fractal doesn’t exist, not even assets for it exist, they didn’t even get past the “wouldn’t it be nice if we made this” stage.

they were offering us more in-depth knowledge of GW1 lore, or more in-depth knowledge of GW2 lore. we as a community chose the latter, and we as a community would do well if we stopped bringing that fractal up as evidence of anything. there is nothing that states or indicates that scarlet would show up on a fractal from thousands of years ago. she couldn’t even if she wanted to. she’s many things, but not a timelord.

BrunoBRS.5178:

she’s many things, but not a timelord.

Actually one theory on these very forums was that she was a time traveller from the future.

For some reason I also think it’s Abbadon… But I have absolutely no clues to go with. It’s just a gut feeling.

@Bruno people aren’t saying that scarlet would be in that fractal, people are under the impression something from that fractal would affect scarlet in some way, what it is, why blah blah blah, clearly is unknown and likely would never be known.

And seeing as how it’s living story content, and that scarlet is involved in every living story thing in some way shape or form… I’m willing to bet that it would have something to do with her no matter how minimal.

CureForLiving.5360:

BrunoBRS.5178:

she’s many things, but not a timelord.

Actually one theory on these very forums was that she was a time traveller from the future.

a theory based on nothing more than “she uses portals, she controlled steam creatures on precisely one release, one personal story branch makes steam creatures sound like they come from the future”.

Durzlla.6295:

@Bruno people aren’t saying that scarlet would be in that fractal, people are under the impression something from that fractal would affect scarlet in some way, what it is, why blah blah blah, clearly is unknown and likely would never be known.

And seeing as how it’s living story content, and that scarlet is involved in every living story thing in some way shape or form… I’m willing to bet that it would have something to do with her no matter how minimal.

and yet, there is no proof that this would be the case. nothing, nowhere says that the abaddon fractal would have any ties with the living story arc, and yet people keep taking it for granted. not only that, they assume that whatever info they believe the abaddon fractal would have given about scarlet would be canon. except it’s not canon until it’s in-game or stated as canon by a developer.

the sooner people forget about that freaking fractal that never was, the better.

Speculate all you like, nothing can be proven either way. I just find it funny that everyone imagines the abaddon fractal was about the other gods disposing him, when it just as easily could have been about whatever made him go rouge in the first place (a fall from grace). We may never know. But since the title of this thread is “calling it now…” I’m calling it NOT Abaddon.

You guys are way off, that thing Scarlet saw in the Mists is actually Menzies, Balthazar’s brother, and we’ll go to the Fissures of Woe to give an end for this and while we are there , the Eternal Forgemaster will craft legendary armor.

Belzebu.3912:

You guys are way off, that thing Scarlet saw in the Mists is actually Menzies, Balthazar’s brother, and we’ll go to the Fissures of Woe to give an end for this and while we are there , the Eternal Forgemaster will craft legendary armor.

You are clearly being sarcastic but I want that so bad.

OptimistPrime.9283:

Belzebu.3912:

stuff…

You are clearly being sarcastic but I want that so bad.

Yes I am, and I also would love it.

My guess you didn’t play GW1 because in one of the expansions we killed Abby :P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.

We aren’t returning to Abaddon.

Which is why Evon’s fractal would’ve returned to Abaddon. There is something there that, more than likely, would’ve tied in with the current Living Story. I don’t see Anet going through all that trouble just to throw a bone to GW1 veterans.

I don’t disagree that Abaddon’s dead. The question is if he’s Uncle Ben dead or Jason Todd dead.

The only way for Abaddon to return will be if he somehow manages to take over Kormir.

<player name>: “Kormir?”
Kormir: “No. Yes. Kormir. And much more.”
<player name>: “Abaddon?”
Kormir: “No. His power. His knowledge. But not him. His will is broken. There is a new god of secrets. There is a new day.”

Depending on how you interpret that, it could mean "he’s ‘alive’ only as thoughts within Kormir’s mind, but holds no desire to act out again – he is suppressed.

But enough adding fuel to the fire…

For the fractal, chances are is that it would have revealed something about magic and Scarlet would for some reason be interested in that. Or it wouldn’t deal with Scarlet but Evon’s little story – during Wintersday he was pretty much going “doomsayer” on us saying “Scarlet’s going to attack LA with how defenseless it is!” This would have been different, at the least.

I mean, with the Thaumanova reactor, all we got with Scarlet was very small and thus far irrelevant to the whole plot of Scarlet. She was there, working with Inquest (something we knew – the working with bit), and she discovered ley lines. But how do the ley lines fit in? We don’t know. We don’t know if they even do fit in.

Though I’m surprised no one has suggested the drill may be her digging for them, given they’re little crisscrossing lines under the surface iirc from Angel’s interview.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Though I’m surprised no one has suggested the drill may be her digging for them, given they’re little crisscrossing lines under the surface iirc from Angel’s interview.

probably because those ley lines sound (and probably are) metaphysical. you can’t dig for a stream raw magic like you’d dig for a well, because, well, magic isn’t exactly a raw, physical thing as far as i know.

Magic, as we’ve seen, exists around it. You dig to where that magic exists (a sploch of land, an underwater stream, etc.), then you tap into the magic from that spot.

That’s how I thought it.

i don’t know, i always thought of magic as this thing that just… is. the leylines make me think that they’re just concentrated streams, but not necessarily something you can directly tap into. it’s like the magnetic poles on earth: you can make use of them, some objects have properties that can distort them in a local environment, but you can’t “grasp” it like you would water or a gas.

the leylines would be like magnetic streams where the magic is more intense, but not necessarily the source of magic, or an actual stream.

…did that make any sense?

“this thing that just is” can be the description for anything and everything.

There are materials out there that are magically conductive – little different than how there’s material that’s electrically conductive, or heat conductive. Gold, water, some other metals are all magically conductive.

It is possible to tap into the highly magical Artesian Waters, and Trahearne used this to spread his “cure” to Zhaitan’s corruption. So I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to go and place, say, golden rods into this stream of magic to conduct magic. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to go and have a spellcaster draw from that magic. It’s likely dangerous – highly dangerous – but it should be possible. After all, that’s what spellcasters do away from ley lines. That’s what the Elder Dragons do. That’s why Thaumanova exploded.

yeah, but then it would be a water stream “irradiated” with magic. i think of the magic ley lines as just raw magic, not being conducted by any material. like a metaphysical river, on a plane parallel to ours.

I never said it was a water stream… I was using a comparison to a known event where someone (Trahearne/Zhaitan) uses a magical location that spreads out (Artesian Waters) to utilize its magic (anti-corruption ritual/corrupting).

But if it’s underground, it goes through something. Even air – even if it’s above ground. So you dig to that spot, and in that “metaphysical river” you collect magic via various possible means.

Magic is part of the world, so it isn’t in some “plane parallel to ours”. It’s part of living beings and the world itself. Magically concentrated areas affects the landscape (it’s why there’s floating rocks in the Tarnished Coast; it’s why the Maguuma’s waters had healing properties in GW1; it’s why Orrians were magically advanced; it’s why elementals naturally form). The ley lines would basically be the most magically concentrated areas of the world, in the form of lines.

And if it’s part of the world, and if it can be conducted, then it is possible to go to the location where it’s highly concentrated and collect/alter it. It won’t be some stream or some pocket of ore veins. It’ll be part of the soil, air, or whatever physical is there.

do we have anything indicating they might be underground?

and i’m really struggling with the words to describe what i mean, i’m not sure you quite get what i think they are.

Imagine Tyria is soaked in a fluid. The Mists, to be precise. It’s on everything, it’s everywhere, but this fluid has a special property: you can’t see or feel it. not from within tyria itself at least (like you can’t see oxygen and ozone up close, but they make the sky blue). in fact, merely interacting with it requires some talent. the ley lines would be streams within this fluid, sections where it’s denser and its effects more proeminent, but the properties remain.

have you ever played a game with a light world/dark world mechanic? two copies of the same world, overlaid but slightly different. think that, but instead of “another tyria”, the other layer is the layer of magic. like a 4th dimension. it’s there, but you can’t see or do anything about it. with some talent, you can make use of the knowledge of that 4th dimension, and harness it. but you still can’t “store it”, at least not in its pure form.

i think i’m making less and less sense the further i try to explain this.

but the bottom line is, i’m not saying they can’t be interacted with, i’m saying that the drill would do scarlet no good if she wanted to play with ley lines.

I’m surprised no one brought it up yet, but Scarlet might be in the Mists for the same possibly reasons that the Sons of Svanir are. Obviously, the Elder Dragons (or at least Jormag) are interested in the Mists, or at least something in it.

This is of course still using the Entity=Mordremoth theory.

Erukk.1408:

I’m surprised no one brought it up yet, but Scarlet might be in the Mists for the same possibly reasons that the Sons of Svanir are. Obviously, the Elder Dragons (or at least Jormag) are interested in the Mists, or at least something in it.

This is of course still using the Entity=Mordremoth theory.

…what? where?

i’m trying to remember all the enemy factions on the mists, and sons of svanir is not one i recall on any maps, from sPvP to WvW to EotM.

BrunoBRS.5178:

do we have anything indicating they might be underground?

Technically, no. Which is why it’s just a hypothesis mentioned. A possibility.

But it’d work the same if it was ground-level or even in the sky. You just need to reach it.

BrunoBRS.5178:

and i’m really struggling with the words to describe what i mean, i’m not sure you quite get what i think they are.

I’m pretty sure I do, but I don’t think you understand what I’m saying – in which I’m saying that while you think magic cannot be conducted, it can be. Ley lines are magic – the flow of magic across the planet specifically:

Magic is the lifeblood of Tyria. The entire world is infused with it, and it flows through everything via ley lines that criss-cross the planet.
http://esprits-dorr.fr/node/261

And magic can be conducted via water, metals, etc. (see the Mysterious Refined Ore in Silex Castrum and many of the various communing skill challenges, especially those at waterfalls/springs/etc.) Spellcasters draw in magic from their surroundings as much as from within themselves (see: Sea of Sorrows with the elementalist; or the other two novels as well, I believe).

Ley lines are basically these lines of super-concentrated magic by all appearances. And sometimes they criss cross. If you can manipulate the magic in the air/soil/water away from the ley lines, then you can at the ley lines (though doing such may be dangerous).

BrunoBRS.5178:

Imagine Tyria is soaked in a fluid. The Mists, to be precise. It’s on everything, it’s everywhere, but this fluid has a special property: you can’t see or feel it. not from within tyria itself at least (like you can’t see oxygen and ozone up close, but they make the sky blue). in fact, merely interacting with it requires some talent. the ley lines would be streams within this fluid, sections where it’s denser and its effects more proeminent, but the properties remain.

Yes, I know what you mean. And I’m saying the same thing.

But it isn’t some 4th dimension. It’s there in the real world, just invisible and scentless (like a gas that’s colorless and odorless!), and if you know what to look for you can spot it and interact with it. Ley lines would be no different. You’re saying what I have been, but apparently you haven’t been understanding me while you think I’m not understanding you – all because you seem to think that you cannot reach where these ley lines are but…

BrunoBRS.5178:

but the bottom line is, i’m not saying they can’t be interacted with, i’m saying that the drill would do scarlet no good if she wanted to play with ley lines.

All she needs the drill for would be to get to where the ley line is located. The ley lines are in fixed locations given that they criss-cross over Thaumanova for an extended period of time. They are in specific locations. The hypothesis I mentioned was merely Scarlet needing the drill to reach that specific location where a ley line (or criss cross of them) is at. Then after she reached that specific location, she could tamper with the condensed magic – no different than how she’d tamper with magic anywhere else, but because it’s a ley line – invisible to the naked eye (or so we’re currently led to believe) – it’d react differently.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Erukk.1408:

I’m surprised no one brought it up yet, but Scarlet might be in the Mists for the same possibly reasons that the Sons of Svanir are. Obviously, the Elder Dragons (or at least Jormag) are interested in the Mists, or at least something in it.

This is of course still using the Entity=Mordremoth theory.

…what? where?

i’m trying to remember all the enemy factions on the mists, and sons of svanir is not one i recall on any maps, from sPvP to WvW to EotM.

Personal Story, norn, “Defend the Mists” storyline.

Plot summary: the Sons of Svanir kidnapped a havroun and manipulated his ability to enter the Mists so that they could do so themselves. This is reflected in The Frozen Maw, with portals to the Mists forming during one of the events.

i didn’t mean they can’t be conducted, i just picture them as something, like i said, more like a 4th dimension. it’s not quite like a colorless and odorless gas, it’s more like something you can’t see simply because you can’t. like how a 2 dimensional being would not be able to perceive depth. i don’t think magic is a “substance” per se, but that’s just my perception of it. as far as in-game confirmation goes, all we know is that it’s limited, and elder dragons love them some magic.

as for the drill thing, think of earth’s meridians. no matter how high or low you are, your coordinates remain the same. i imagine it’s similar with magic. she wouldn’t have to dig lower or fly higher to reach the leylines, she’d just have to reach the coordinates.

I wasn’t saying magic was a substance either…. Well, technically it is, but not like what people tend to think when they think of the word “substance.”

But I disagree with magic being akin to the meridians. It’s not a 2d thing; it does not have infinite depth. The ley lines are called the “lifeblood” of the world. This implies underground – part of the world itself. Like veins in a body.

i don’t know, looking at the maguuma’s flying rocks and the thaumanova explosion (caused by messing with leylines despite not being underground in any way) makes me think that height is not much of a factor.

and the lifeblood statement doesn’t change that much either. they could just as easily be on the surface.

I would have to agree with Konig in many aspects of this discussion. Magic is very prevalent in many locations, seeping from the ground at springs and wells, crystals, and caverns. My thought on the matter is that, in all likelihood, they Leylines are merely paths of least resistance that magic flows through within the soil of Tyria. Basically, IMO, paths that lead magic away from the Elder Dragons (who we are told seep magic back into Tyria while sleeping) and out to permeate the planet. There’s no proof of this yet, obviously because we’ve been literally just told that they exist and nothing else, but some of the connections here do exist.

It makes sense to me that if the Abaddon fractal had been made, that it would probably have been about the Leylines as well, assuming they become an integral part of Scarlet’s story. I mean, at his fall, Abaddon’s body was thrown down to Tyria and almost destroyed causing the Crystal Sea to turn into a desert, and the place of his fall to become a desolation. Now, up until now, we’ve assumed the transformation of the land came from the impact and his own raw magic, but it’s not crazy to assume that his fall cracked open a Leyline, releasing it’s magic into the environment and wreaking havoc.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i don’t know, looking at the maguuma’s flying rocks and the thaumanova explosion (caused by messing with leylines despite not being underground in any way) makes me think that height is not much of a factor.

and the lifeblood statement doesn’t change that much either. they could just as easily be on the surface.

The Thaumanova explosion was caused in an Inquest lab deep beneath the surface. All we see in-game is the remnants of the city that the lab was underneath, not the site of the explosion itself.

Silavor.6257:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i don’t know, looking at the maguuma’s flying rocks and the thaumanova explosion (caused by messing with leylines despite not being underground in any way) makes me think that height is not much of a factor.

and the lifeblood statement doesn’t change that much either. they could just as easily be on the surface.

The Thaumanova explosion was caused in an Inquest lab deep beneath the surface. All we see in-game is the remnants of the city that the lab was underneath, not the site of the explosion itself.

wait what?

and what about the thaumanova reactor itself, which we went in during the fractured release, and definitely not dug deep underground?

It’s Kormir! She mad at Trehearne for taking over the personal story, so she wants to destroy all sylvari!