Guild Wars 2

bullyrook.2165:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Chrispy.5641:

But,…Gearbox (also Bioware and a few other companies) having to feel the need to say the word ‘inclusive’ and how you ‘respect everything’ at all in a press release/blog just comes off as very pompous, and makes me wonder if you really wanted a gay character in your game at all, or if there was a focus group you wanted to appeal to?)

On having a major Gay character in Guild Wars 2? Sure! So long as its not done just for the sake of having a gay character, and it is instead done for the sake of having a great story!

I think a lot of game-writers are still struggling in this regard. It is hard to separate political correctness from simply writing a good story. No company should have to state that they are ‘inclusive’, it should be generally assumed that they are.

Writers should start off by writing their characters as sexuality-neutral. As in: The character comes first, and his/her sexuality could be anything later. I don’t know if GW2’s writers follow this principle when writing their character, but I assume they do.

I disagree :P. Sexuality and your views on sexuality are only pieces of character design, they are not separate, but composite.

I wish people wouldn’t speak in absolutes.

Sometimes it’s better to begin writing a character without the dimension of sexuality (just the same as it might be with the dimension of religious belief) and add it along the way when it is meaningful and impactful. That isn’t to say writing a character with such dimensions to begin with is bad, it’s just a different way of writing and may or may not be better as you develop the character.

In the sense of writing relationships to have meaning to the story, I really like the chemistry between Rox and Braham. They are simply good friends and if you keep it there, they wouldn’t be more or less good for them. I’d like to see more interactions between them and Taimi too! Kas and Jory, I don’t dislike but their interaction feels very predictable not to mention it feels like they are their own islands from the rest of the group. You won’t see Kas and Rox doing much assignments together and see how they interact. It’s always Kas+Majory or just the two individuals.

What a bumperinio.

I’d like to say that games are not there to educate us about sexuality, relationships.

Romances – hetero, kitten , whatever – serve a purpose in a storyline. They shouldn’t be there because there it too little of lesbians, hetero couples. Because characters that are made just to be gay, lesbian or hetero and in relationship are just that – gay NPC, lesbian NPC or hetero NPC.

As long as it makes sense in lore, story, entire game world can be full of gay men or lesbian women for me.

But once you put one into the game just for sake of one or other having different sexual preferences, it doesn’t feel natural and I’m all against it.

Why should I care if you’re a lesbian, a gay or hetero? Serve your story purpose, don’t try to educate me or push into equality.

Rym.1469:

As long as it makes sense in lore, story, entire game world can be full of gay men or lesbian women for me.

But once you put one into the game just for sake of one or other having different sexual preferences, it doesn’t feel natural and I’m all against it.

Well, nobody is suggesting the character be nothing but his sexuality. The character could have a dozen other reasons to be there. OP (and others) would just like it if, once the character is made, the coin landed on the other side.

Very down with that point, Buddha. Especially when (like with Kas and Marj, you can’t skip the story sequence.

Canach and Trahearne? That’s the only one that I think could happen with the existing pool of characters.

I will stir up the anger of many people on this thread …

Sorry, I personally am heterosexual, and I have great difficulty in finding a mate. For me the NPC Gay will just reinforce my sense of solitude. I would have liked to see more lovely couples Logan / Jennah. (and preferably endings them.)
And I admit clearly that I do not stay connected to GW2 if I meet interracial NPC. It’s against my classical breeding logic. Tyria is lost, is on the brink of crisis, asuras, more than anyone, will say no to a pervert who wants to put them on. brrrr horrible.

anyway, it’s just us, earth humans. IRL. Who we develop an attraction to other breeds. I like to think that other civilizations not necessarily think was a cross or are not like us in thought.

They do not go the same attraction, not even food, not the same thoughts as us. Tyria for me would be perfect with real different mentalities, we worked to change completely from reality.

Louveepine.7630:

I will stir up the anger of many people on this thread …

Sorry, I personally am heterosexual, and I have great difficulty in finding a mate. For me the NPC Gay will just reinforce my sense of solitude. I would have liked to see more lovely couples Logan / Jennah. (and preferably endings them.)
And I admit clearly that I do not stay connected to GW2 if I meet interracial NPC. It’s against my classical breeding logic. Tyria is lost, is on the brink of crisis, asuras, more than anyone, will say no to a pervert who wants to put them on. brrrr horrible.

anyway, it’s just us, earth humans. IRL. Who we develop an attraction to other breeds. I like to think that other civilizations not necessarily think was a cross or are not like us in thought.

They do not go the same attraction, not even food, not the same thoughts as us. Tyria for me would be perfect with real different mentalities, we worked to change completely from reality.

You’re saying that seeing gay couples makes you feel alone… Imagine how the world feels for those of us who are gay – most relationships in movies, books, and video games are heterosexual relationships. We end up feeling a lot more alone than one lesbian couple ends up making you feel.

Representation is important… You don’t get to put gay people down just because you’d rather see nothing but heterosexual romance…

If was just about story I’d agree that art should come first.

But it’s also a game. More than that, it’s a multiplayer game played by thousands upon thousands of people of fantastic diversity. It’s hard to represent everyone, given the limitations of the media, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.

Such pandering might ruin the game’s story to me. A characters sexuality should only be mentioned if it’s relevant to the story, and I’m not sure I entirely trust Anet to do this with proper subtlety. Trying to include the fact that a character is some kind of minority in the spotlight is the absolute worst way to go about this. Write compelling and interesting stories, not by going down a list check-marking all the quirks you think the game just HAS to have.

Zadex.9437:

Such pandering might ruin the game’s story to me. A characters sexuality should only be mentioned if it’s relevant to the story, and I’m not sure I entirely trust Anet to do this with proper subtlety. Trying to include the fact that a character is some kind of minority in the spotlight is the absolute worst way to go about this. Write compelling and interesting stories, not by going down a list check-marking all the quirks you think the game just HAS to have.

Have you considered that it only seems like pandering to you because it isn’t the norm. If it were a heterosexual romance you probably wouldn’t think twice about it. The fact is their sexuality is pertinent. it would be super bizarre if we were interacting with Marjory and Kas and didn’t know they were a couple. In fact if you paid attention to the story it started off quite subtly and most people didn’t figure out they were a couple until Marjory gets outright asked…

People have a sexuality, it’s not unsubtle to show it. When I walk around with my boyfriend and interact with people I imagine that it’s reasonably obvious that we are in fact a couple. Sexuality isn’t some hidden thing that people don’t notice – not to say people always notice it, but we all have it and putting it in a game isn’t pandering or catering to what you might perceive as a minority. I don’t have a clue what a ‘subtle’ showing of a relationship would be. Do you consider Logan and Jenna to be subtle? What about Penelopee and Blumaroo?

Have we not a way to avoid putting too much history with principals love story? But actually relied on diplomatic, friendly relations, or concurences / hatred. But with the obligations of having to endure .. As Gadd in gw1 …
It has become all too common the romance = /
Even Disney disappointed me with Malefic. Human psychology is much more varied than love stories … ._.

As a gay male.I sooo do not care for LGBT couples in GW2.Sure it’s nice to see GW2 challenging conventions on this plane too but I would rather see good quality characters than showing ‘diversity’ for the sake of diversity.The characters need to be cohesive with the enviroment rather than just being placed into the story because “muh diversity”

The head of the Captain’s Council, Captain Magnus doesn’t have a wife…

Neek.9531:

Adding yet another gay relationship but this time male and male (as great as that would be) would feel like cramming it down our throats

Doctor Freud will see you now..

I’m interested in how a significant number of people responding here have managed to presuppose a gay character, without any indication of their story, would only ever be added “for the sake of it”.

How does one judge if a character has been added solely for the purposes this supposed inclusion conspiracy? Does a new gay character have to be approved by The Committee of Straight Arbiters Of Sexuality on here? I daresay such folk are not easily swayed.

On the other hand there is the elephant in the room of sexual and gender politics (Why is there seemingly no homophobia in tyria, yet all the characters appear completely cisgendered?) but those issues are even more difficult to address in game without coming across as overly didactic.

Hm, tbh I personally don’t have problem with the “gay” part I got a problem with the “human” and the “romantic relationship” part. None of my characters is human, I just find them boring and the romantic thing doesnt sound really interesting for me storywise either. Maybe I’m just having an allergy to Logan and Jenna, no idea.

Eulolia.2467:

On the other hand there is the elephant in the room of sexual and gender politics (Why is there seemingly no homophobia in tyria, yet all the characters appear completely cisgendered?) but those issues are even more difficult to address in game without coming across as overly didactic.

I thought about that myself. One thing I enjoy about story is when character flaws exist and are consistent. Racism, zenophobia, homophobia, etc are things that exist in our world for various reasons and even if many of us are politically correct about are differences, we usually still keep those values and morals in mind when dealing with the world. I don’t think Tyria should be any different but how such issues occur and to what degree should be different and having these be explored helps us understand how Tyria and our world are similar or very different. Like, if homosexual relations isn’t frowned upon like it is in our world (just speaking in hypothetical) then perhaps those that have these preferences are always open about it. What effects would that have on the society and viewpoints?

It’s another reason I’d really like to learn more about the Tengu who seem to try to distance themselves as much as they can. Really, many of the races have different views and cultures. Heh, it’s probably why I enjoy seeing the different races interact.

I think the only reason the whole “Sylvari date whoever they want” thing to provoke the relationship of Caithe and Faolain was just to point out the fact no LGBT characters existed at the time in popular games, whereas now, a whole multitude of games have LGBT characters.

I think a lot of the issue with people saying “We want LGBT characters”, comes down to the fact, most characters in the game haven’t even stated their sexuality. People are assuming all characters who haven’t displayed their sexuality are heterosexual, which simply might not be true. For all we know, Rytlock could be gay, which is why he hasn’t had any cubs despite being a slightly older Charr, and Jennah could be a lesbian, which is why she hasn’t produced an heir to her throne yet. We simply don’t know.

Its something I come across in RP quite a lot. A lot of people say to me “What sexuality is your character?” and I reply. “Who cares, until he wants to date somebody, nobody needs to know.”. Its the lore writer’s business concerning who-likes-who, and until they want to throw us that information, who cares.

On a side note, as a gay male, I do enjoy seeing homosexual couples in my media, because a man and a man, or a woman and a woman is what I see as normal, so I get that silly, warm “awh, thats cute”, feeling when I see homosexual romance in media because I can relate to it, whereas that doesn’t happen to me when I see a heterosexual couple.

On the topic of “Why is there no homophobia in Tyria”, I think the denizens of Tyria are a lot less wimpy than the people in the real-world. Considering they’re facing a potential apocalypse via Elder Dragon, I don’t think they really care about what gender their friend is into. They have bigger things to worry about, whereas people in the real world, have too much time on their hands, to formulate ways to be nasty to eachother. and take into account the vast majority of characters we meet in the GW2 storyline are soldiers in one form or another, and generally soldiers are more focused on reaching their goal (in this case, killing the Elder Dragons), rather than being focused on who they’re achieving that goal alongside.

Can we stop making everyone GAY!

Said the straight person who doesn’t see a problem with 99.999% of characters in media for decades being straight, and the .001% who isn’t being a horrid stereotype.

DarcShriek.5829:

There are the Sons of Svanir.

This, pretty much. An all-male faction of huge, muscular and angry men that have an extremely anti-female view point, and are repeatedly shut down and ousted out of their traditional society? Man, that reeks of frustration and we all know how to deal with that. So yeah, I’d wager a guess that a lot of the Sons of Svanir are, perhaps not mated for life, but at least in homosexual relationships. Or giant orgies. w/e.

If they introduce a gay male couple, I would most likely prefer it to be something simple… like those two dudes in Dragon Age: Origins who run a shop together.

xXMapcoXx.9614:

Can we stop making everyone GAY!

Who is this “everyone” you speak of?

Mikhail.4961:

DarcShriek.5829:

There are the Sons of Svanir.

This, pretty much. An all-male faction of huge, muscular and angry men that have an extremely anti-female view point, and are repeatedly shut down and ousted out of their traditional society? Man, that reeks of frustration and we all know how to deal with that. So yeah, I’d wager a guess that a lot of the Sons of Svanir are, perhaps not mated for life, but at least in homosexual relationships. Or giant orgies. w/e.

If they introduce a gay male couple, I would most likely prefer it to be something simple… like those two dudes in Dragon Age: Origins who run a shop together.

There seem to be some stereotypes here:

1. Just because one does not want to have sex with a member of the opposite sex does not make them a misogynist moron.
2. Run a shop together…really? There are gay teachers and doctors and dock workers and toll collectors and police officers and soldiers and pilots and crane operators and programmers and grounds keepers and florists and hair dressers and anthropologists and artists and shop owners and … you get the idea.

One of the things art (and yes Virginia a computer game is art) does is hold up a mirror for us to see ourselves. This is what the OP is asking for: to see a fully fleshed out, well rounded character, flaws and all, that he can see himself in – not a flat, stereotypical, non-threatening place holder written for non-gay people.

Edit: I changed some words that were overly aggressive in tone.

Michael.8562:

xXMapcoXx.9614:

Can we stop making everyone GAY!

Who is this “everyone” you speak of?

Mikhail.4961:

DarcShriek.5829:

There are the Sons of Svanir.

This, pretty much. An all-male faction of huge, muscular and angry men that have an extremely anti-female view point, and are repeatedly shut down and ousted out of their traditional society? Man, that reeks of frustration and we all know how to deal with that. So yeah, I’d wager a guess that a lot of the Sons of Svanir are, perhaps not mated for life, but at least in homosexual relationships. Or giant orgies. w/e.

If they introduce a gay male couple, I would most likely prefer it to be something simple… like those two dudes in Dragon Age: Origins who run a shop together.

No stereotypes here. I’m going to assume this isn’t trolling (though it kinda quacks like a duck).

1. Just because one does not want to have sex with a member of the opposite sex does not make them a misogynist moron.
2. Run a shop together…really? There are gay teachers and doctors and dock workers and toll collectors and police officers and soldiers and pilots and crane operators and programmers and grounds keepers and florists and hair dressers and anthropologists and artists and shop owners and … you get the idea.

One of the things art (and yes Virginia a computer game is art) does is hold up a mirror for us to see ourselves. This is what the OP is asking for: to see a fully fleshed out, well rounded character, flaws and all, that he can see himself in – not a flat, stereotypical, non-threatening place holder written for non-gay people.

1. I don’t think your reading comprehension is quite up top date today if you inferred that being gay leads to misogyny.
2. Have you played the game in question and met the NPCs I referred to? If you had, then you wouldn’t make such a disparaging comment that shop keepers aren’t amazing enough for you.

Mikhail.4961:

1. I don’t think your reading comprehension is quite up top date today if you inferred that being gay leads to misogyny.
2. Have you played the game in question and met the NPCs I referred to? If you had, then you wouldn’t make such a disparaging comment that shop keepers aren’t amazing enough for you.

Thank you for your reply Mikhail.

1. Perhaps my reading comprehension is off today. Please explain how your comment:

" I’d wager a guess that a lot of the Sons of Svanir are, perhaps not mated for life, but at least in homosexual relationships."

in response to the OP’s request for major gay NPCs does anything but imply that a bunch of one dimensional, female hating goons must, by definition, be homosexual as well? This is a well worn stereotype.

2. I have played Dragon Age Origins. I’m surprised that my comments came off as disparaging to shop keepers. My point was that gay people come in all shapes and sizes and occupations. There are many depictions of gay people, in various media, running shops and dressing hair and designing interiors. These are great professions and there are a lot of gay people in them – but gay people do lots of other things as well. To have one more gay couple running a shop in a game where heroes combat enormous magical dragons is stereotypical.

Now if this same couple figured prominently in the saving of Tyria – that’s something else entirely.

Argon.1563:

For all we know, Rytlock could be gay, which is why he hasn’t had any cubs despite being a slightly older Charr

Isn’t he the only one that knew Eir had a son? Maybe he just doesn’t put much emphasis on having children and he, in fact, had sired at least half a dozen cubs but just never bothers to speak of it (like most Charr end up doing…unless something comes up and you end up having to kill your cub/be saved by your cub to which THEN it’s brought up).

But you could be right. With his position and prowess, he could have any female he wants. Still probably wouldn’t bother bringing it up if he had and a gay (male!) Charr is something I don’t know how would take place…I mean, I know how it’d work but don’t know how any sort of hinting would occur.

Argon.1563:

Its something I come across in RP quite a lot. A lot of people say to me “What sexuality is your character?” and I reply. “Who cares, until he wants to date somebody, nobody needs to know.”. Its the lore writer’s business concerning who-likes-who, and until they want to throw us that information, who cares.

Well, when RPing, a lot of times drama is involved and many a(n easy) drama might involve the character’s preferences such as having a vested interest in saving a loved one, being distraught with dealing with certain people/situations or just a plain old love triangle.

Leo G.4501:

Argon.1563:

For all we know, Rytlock could be gay, which is why he hasn’t had any cubs despite being a slightly older Charr

Isn’t he the only one that knew Eir had a son? Maybe he just doesn’t put much emphasis on having children and he, in fact, had sired at least half a dozen cubs but just never bothers to speak of it (like most Charr end up doing…unless something comes up and you end up having to kill your cub/be saved by your cub to which THEN it’s brought up).

But you could be right. With his position and prowess, he could have any female he wants. Still probably wouldn’t bother bringing it up if he had and a gay (male!) Charr is something I don’t know how would take place…I mean, I know how it’d work but don’t know how any sort of hinting would occur.

If there is at least, one race that should be exclusive heterosexual, it is the Charrs. Because they aren’t like human or sylvari with all the romance and those things. Charrs are a militaristic race, if they mate, it is to make new cubs for the legions.

bullyrook.2165:

I disagree :P. Sexuality and your views on sexuality are only pieces of character design, they are not separate, but composite.

You know what, you are right. I think what I meant to say, was that it sometimes seems to me as if they are specifically trying to write a character of a particular sexuality. Which is why to me it sometimes comes off as artificial, insincere, forced.

It comes across as “insert token character here”, rather than a natural development of a story.

Leo G.4501:

I wish people wouldn’t speak in absolutes.

Sometimes it’s better to begin writing a character without the dimension of sexuality (just the same as it might be with the dimension of religious belief) and add it along the way when it is meaningful and impactful. That isn’t to say writing a character with such dimensions to begin with is bad, it’s just a different way of writing and may or may not be better as you develop the character.

This is kind of what I meant, although I didn’t mean for it to come across so absolute.

arthurobenzi.2619:

If there is at least, one race that should be exclusive heterosexual, it is the Charrs. Because they aren’t like human or sylvari with all the romance and those things. Charrs are a militaristic race, if they mate, it is to make new cubs for the legions.

That’s half true I guess. The Charr still have relationships, but they are usually more casual and/or take a back seat to their military career. So if there are homosexual Charr in the Legions, I’m sure at some point of their lives they would probably “do their duty” as it were before going back to whatever possibly relationship they had before hand.

There is also the fact that not all Charr are part of the Legions. Those that live in let’s say Lion’s Arch or as adventurers would be able to have whatever type of relationship they would prefer.

Erukk.1408:

That’s half true I guess. The Charr still have relationships, but they are usually more casual and/or take a back seat to their military career. So if there are homosexual Charr in the Legions, I’m sure at some point of their lives they would probably “do their duty” as it were before going back to whatever possibly relationship they had before hand.

There is also the fact that not all Charr are part of the Legions. Those that live in let’s say Lion’s Arch or as adventurers would be able to have whatever type of relationship they would prefer.

Charr’s culture is more about short-terms relationships due to their militaristic life, and it is frowned to have inter-warband relation. Breeding is a duty to fulfil the legion with a new generation of soldiers more than for “social or romance”.

Outsiders living in LA or in anywhere else can, but they aren’t reprensentative : they left their family ( warband = charr’s family ) and are even at a lower rank than a gladium ( the lowest rank in legion ) since they quit the legions.

arthurobenzi.2619:

Charr’s culture is more about short-terms relationships due to their militaristic life, and it is frowned to have inter-warband relation. Breeding is a duty to fulfil the legion with a new generation of soldiers more than for “social or romance”.

Outsiders living in LA or in anywhere else can, but they aren’t reprensentative : they left their family ( warband = charr’s family ) and are even at a lower rank than a gladium ( the lowest rank in legion ) since they quit the legions.

The Charr’s culture might be more inclined to short-term relationships and military advancement, but doesn’t mean long term relationships don’t happen though. They’re just rarer. Breeding falls under this as well. It’s a duty on their part to populate the Legions, but that still doesn’t stop physical and/or romantic relationships (both hetero and homosexual) from happening in the ranks. They aren’t mindless or sexless drones in-between breedings after all.

The Charr living outside of the Legions are still representative of the race. They are still Charr. They are just living outside of the Legion’s culture.

Well, even the Spartans likely participated in homoerotic activities (am going on 2nd hand research). Being militaristic doesn’t make anything less likely. Since Charr are not monogamous and do have relations for pleasure, it might make it just as likely as heterosexual relations.

Erukk.1408:

The Charr’s culture might be more inclined to short-term relationships and military advancement, but doesn’t mean long term relationships don’t happen though. They’re just rarer. Breeding falls under this as well. It’s a duty on their part to populate the Legions, but that still doesn’t stop physical and/or romantic relationships (both hetero and homosexual) from happening in the ranks. They aren’t mindless or sexless drones in-between breedings after all.

The Charr living outside of the Legions are still representative of the race. They are still Charr. They are just living outside of the Legion’s culture.

There is some romantic relations , but they are few. A homosexual charr would be frowned on because it is counterproductive for his legion . You shouldn’t see them with a human specter of view.

The Charrs who do no follow any legion are deviant and no representative. Even the Charrs in the Pact ( and the order ) belong to a legion.

Leo G.4501:

Well, even the Spartans likely participated in homoerotic activities (am going on 2nd hand research). Being militaristic doesn’t make anything less likely. Since Charr are not monogamous and do have relations for pleasure, it might make it just as likely as heterosexual relations.

The greeks weren’t homosexual, they were pederast. The spartan army were only composed with male, unlike charr . So no, the Spartans and Thebans are no way representative of what could be the Charr society.

Argon.1563:

On the topic of “Why is there no homophobia in Tyria”, I think the denizens of Tyria are a lot less wimpy than the people in the real-world. Considering they’re facing a potential apocalypse via Elder Dragon, I don’t think they really care about what gender their friend is into. They have bigger things to worry about, whereas people in the real world, have too much time on their hands, to formulate ways to be nasty to eachother. and take into account the vast majority of characters we meet in the GW2 storyline are soldiers in one form or another, and generally soldiers are more focused on reaching their goal (in this case, killing the Elder Dragons), rather than being focused on who they’re achieving that goal alongside.

I can see how you are coming to this conclusion, but it doesn’t really hold up with history.

Liberal sexual mores tend to show up in highly developed cultures that have established a measure of security. People tend toward more conservative mores in times of real crisis.

You could probably chalk that up to evolutionary impulses. Propagation of the species becomes more crucial during threat. And yes, in the current day and age homosexual couples have ways of producing offspring, but things like surrogacy and artificial insemination are luxury methods that aren’t going to be as likely in a time of crisis.

Bringing it all back to the game, though, we have the problem of some inconsistency in the game. Parts of the world seem to be under imminent threat from the dragons, but other parts of it don’t seem to be all that threatened. As much as they talk about the Centaur threat and the terrible dragons, Divinity’s reach and human culture as a whole don’t seem to be in a siege environment. Outside of the Maguuma Wastes and Orr, human society reads more as a fading empire that hasn’t yet encountered its final threat.

In which case, liberal sexual mores wouldn’t be surprising.

arthurobenzi.2619:

There is some romantic relations , but they are few. A homosexual charr would be frowned on because it is counterproductive for his legion . You shouldn’t see them with a human specter of view.

The Charrs who do no follow any legion are deviant and no representative. Even the Charrs in the Pact ( and the order ) belong to a legion.

You do realize you’re making assumptions, right? There hasn’t been word of how their society would view homosexuality as if had not been officially started nor word of it in lore unless I missed the mention of it. You’re just projecting human ideals on social and cultural issues that may be viewed differently from their point of view.

arthurobenzi.2619:

Leo G.4501:

Well, even the Spartans likely participated in homoerotic activities (am going on 2nd hand research). Being militaristic doesn’t make anything less likely. Since Charr are not monogamous and do have relations for pleasure, it might make it just as likely as heterosexual relations.

The greeks weren’t homosexual, they were pederast. The spartan army were only composed with male, unlike charr . So no, the Spartans and Thebans are no way representative of what could be the Charr society.

It was more representative of militarized society, not Charr specifically.

arthurobenzi.2619:

There is some romantic relations , but they are few. A homosexual charr would be frowned on because it is counterproductive for his legion . You shouldn’t see them with a human specter of view.

When the time comes for a gay Charr to do their duty to their Legion and produce cubs, and they do it, how would that be frowned upon and be considered counterproductive? Just because they might be gay, that doesn’t mean a gay male couldn’t sleep with a female (or visa versa) if he felt he needed to for some greater cause he believed it.

The Charrs who do no follow any legion are deviant and no representative. Even the Charrs in the Pact ( and the order ) belong to a legion.

How are they not Charr anymore? They left their nation and culture, but they can’t leave their species. Whether or not you’re in a Legion, if you’re a furry cat person with four ears, you’re a Charr.

Leo G.4501:

You do realize you’re making assumptions, right? There hasn’t been word of how their society would view homosexuality as if had not been officially started nor word of it in lore unless I missed the mention of it. You’re just projecting human ideals on social and cultural issues that may be viewed differently from their point of view.

Actually, I try to exactly use the Charr point of view. Charrs live for the legions, so anything of their life tend to follow the purpose of the legion which they belong.
It’s all about assumptions, because Anet never said anything related to the Charr’s sexuality.

Erukk.1408:

When the time comes for a gay Charr to do their duty to their Legion and produce cubs, and they do it, how would that be frowned upon and be considered counterproductive? Just because they might be gay, that doesn’t mean a gay male couldn’t sleep with a female (or visa versa) if he felt he needed to for some greater cause he believed it.

How are they not Charr anymore? They left their nation and culture, but they can’t leave their species. Whether or not you’re in a Legion, if you’re a furry cat person with four ears, you’re a Charr.

If anything, some Charrs could be bisexual, because like animals, they are most led by their instinct. So even if some would have physical relation with the same gender, they would still feel the need to mate with opposite sex for reproduction.

I never said they weren’t Charr anymore, I said that they would not be representative of the Charr , since they are deviant ( in the societal and cultural way).

Wow, I never thought I would discuss the sexual habits of a fantasy race but anyway.
My guess is that Charr are way less likely to have dificulties with homosexuality than with romantic relationships.

They grow up as groups and live in warbands which they consider their family. So what counts is the group and not the relation between two individuals. And in a way the member of a warband love each other but not in such an exclusive way as humans do. I think a romance between two individuals on the other hand has quite a lot of potential to cause tension either within the group or between different groups.

arthurobenzi.2619:

Leo G.4501:

You do realize you’re making assumptions, right? There hasn’t been word of how their society would view homosexuality as if had not been officially started nor word of it in lore unless I missed the mention of it. You’re just projecting human ideals on social and cultural issues that may be viewed differently from their point of view.

Actually, I try to exactly use the Charr point of view. Charrs live for the legions, so anything of their life tend to follow the purpose of the legion which they belong.
It’s all about assumptions, because Anet never said anything related to the Charr’s sexuality.

Erukk.1408:

When the time comes for a gay Charr to do their duty to their Legion and produce cubs, and they do it, how would that be frowned upon and be considered counterproductive? Just because they might be gay, that doesn’t mean a gay male couldn’t sleep with a female (or visa versa) if he felt he needed to for some greater cause he believed it.

How are they not Charr anymore? They left their nation and culture, but they can’t leave their species. Whether or not you’re in a Legion, if you’re a furry cat person with four ears, you’re a Charr.

If anything, some Charrs could be bisexual, because like animals, they are most led by their instinct. So even if some would have physical relation with the same gender, they would still feel the need to mate with opposite sex for reproduction.

I never said they weren’t Charr anymore, I said that they would not be representative of the Charr , since they are deviant ( in the societal and cultural way).

Even humans have instincts, that doesn’t really mean much on the subject when you can rationalize. Once they can use tools, build constructs, communicate with language, relay information via signals and ponder the ideas of others through their writings and teachings, you have to question how much instinct plays a part in complex things like this. Do not rope Charr up as simple beasts/animals of instinct. They have culture, history, politics, even art and music.

That all said, perhaps you don’t grasp that being representative of a society is different from being representative of a species. One encompasses the other but not the other way around. Besides, saying “the Charr live for their legion” even if it’s coming from the mouth of a Charr itself is a lie. Because it’s excluding all the Charr out there that are chicken-kitten, that hate the legions, the criminals, the lazy-kittens, the ditzy that can’t do anything right, the rebels, etc. All of them are still Charr yet none of them likely give a kitten about the Legions.

You can’t generalize individuals as a culture. That’s racist. Even if it’s a positive stereotype.

I see that whoever digged it out of forum depths should be cursed.

1. Lore forum is for lore. Not this thread. It belongs to General Discussion.
2. I wonder why this discussion wasn’t moved/trashed already like similar ones during LS Season 1 finale. Moderators, you’re so quick at spotting any things remotely politically incorrect, where are you now?

Tumblr is definitely leaking in this thread. I can smell it.

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

I love Kas and Jory, but they’re not exactly breaking the mold. I think conventionally attractive women in a lesbian relationship is a lot easier for most people to accept. However, what I personally would love to see is a gay male relationship in the spotlight, where neither party is a stereotype, i.e. where neither of them is expected to play ‘the woman.’ or act flamboyantly. I’d also ideally like them to be human, because I find that other species don’t really ‘count’ to the average person.

Good job Anet on inclusion so far, just another hopeful suggestion from a queer player who is desperate to see gay men in an actual romance, as opposed to portrayed negatively or in a way that’s oriented around sex.

I do not see the need for it. Now if the PC could have a love interest, now that would be interesting, as we could choose.

But as for shoe horning in a male nps love story just to tick a box, no thanks. If ANet wants to introduce one that feels natural and that is built up over time, I’m good with that, but to just have one because we have Kaz and Jory, na. Its not like they’ve moved the love story between Logan and Jenna along any. And I’d like to see some movement in the love story’s we have before they start adding more.

It really hurts me when nobody questions the relevance of straight characters but every time someone is gay they have to be relevant, they can’t have any romantic intentions, and they have to have a detailed explanation as to why they should even exist in the first place.

Additionally, and as mentioned before, inclusion is not always a political ploy. Acknowledging my existence is not a political ploy. Giving me heroes to identify with is not pandering for my money. The idea that gay people can be heroic too is not malicious.

I want a Norn version of Laverne Cox to be the one to strike the finishing blow to Mordremoth.

Anytime an NPC has a romantic interest, it needs to be there for the purpose of furthering the plot or rounding out the NPCs backstory, Most NPCs don’t require this. They aren’t important enough to the story line either way. ANet would need to bring in another NPC or increase the importance of an old one to the point that such background information is necessary. There can be only so many NPCs of this type before the story line starts feeling bloated with unnecessary people to keep track of and care about. The story has its core important people now. Unless the story needs another core NPC, no more important NPCs with a full backstory should be added.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Anytime an NPC has a romantic interest, it needs to be there for the purpose of furthering the plot or rounding out the NPCs backstory, Most NPCs don’t require this. They aren’t important enough to the story line either way. ANet would need to bring in another NPC or increase the importance of an old one to the point that such background information is necessary. There can be only so many NPCs of this type before the story line starts feeling bloated with unnecessary people to keep track of and care about. The story has its core important people now. Unless the story needs another core NPC, no more important NPCs with a full backstory should be added.

Well Tyria is a world, having more characters and more interactions might be seen as bloated, but if can also make the world feel more real. It’s one reason I enjoy some Manga so much.

Like, for instance, One Piece, had a kitten load of characters! Yeah, some more important than others, yeah some important for different reasons, etc. One could view it as a bloated cast or unfocused plot, doesn’t make it bad as millions of fans world wide love how the world is crafted.

Tyria could be the same. There are so many things that could or does go on in the world thus more opportunities to use the spotlight to tell me stories. It actually makes returning to the main put refreshing one you get a new facet of it established using more characters of differing views.

So I think the game needs fewer nameless, faceless, unimportant npcs that interact with the story. Whether they are gay or straight or unknown is up to the crafters of the world.

I just leave it here.

I’d like to see a major gay couple too.

I think they should be a happy couple, then have one of them die to some threat, the other to live. The one to live would seek vengeance, all that. Eventually he would be fleshed out to be a “bad kitten”, serious and more vengeful type of character, a contrast to what he was when he was with his lover.

Would be cliche, but I think it will really break the mold of the stereotypical “flamboyant gay.” A gay guy is still a guy first and foremost. They (we) can still have as much passion about American football too (although I’m not into sports at all). On the contrary side, a hetero guy can be just as flamboyant too, see Lord Faren.

Rednik.3809:

I just leave it here.

? A joke about a possible misunderstanding .

Rednik.3809:

I just leave it here.

Lol isn’t Maverick obviously heterosexual? I dunno, I never chose him as my sparring partner. I just know for a fact he’s extremely vain so I could be wrong.

Leo G.4501:

Rednik.3809:

I just leave it here.

Lol isn’t Maverick obviously heterosexual? I dunno, I never chose him as my sparring partner. I just know for a fact he’s extremely vain so I could be wrong.

Is there anyone who doesn’t choose Dinky?

Romantic relationships don’t need to be included at all, but they are. So because they are it’s fair to want to see a fair representation. And it calls into question anet’s “positive intentions” when the only ss couples are “hot” lesbians. One could accuse anet of fetishizing women’s relationship with each other for the titillation of there supposedly “all” straight male audience. And that’s annoying to gays, to lesbains, and I would imagine to women as well. Playing in an 8th graders wet dream…really breaks immersion for me!!!

lukejoe.1592:

Romantic relationships don’t need to be included at all, but they are. So because they are it’s fair to want to see a fair representation. And it calls into question anet’s “positive intentions” when the only ss couples are “hot” lesbians. One could accuse anet of fetishizing women’s relationship with each other for the titillation of there supposedly “all” straight male audience. And that’s annoying to gays, to lesbains, and I would imagine to women as well. Playing in an 8th graders wet dream…really breaks immersion for me!!!

At what point would you classify a lesbian relationship as not being fan service? Just because some people choose to see it that way doesn’t mean that it isn’t a positive representation that makes a lot of people very happy. The fetishising of people for their sexuality is a really unfortunate byproduct of the way sexuality is portrayed in the media. If we wan’t to get past that then we actually need MORE representation.

Arenanet isn’t fetishising lesbian relationships, they have clearly actively tried to create a positive representation that is in part there to represent part of the player community. At no point in the development of GW1 or 2 have they done anything to suggest that they would do anything so crass…