Idea For White Mantle Story Progression
1.) to change Orr would make the entire original story erased or instanced. Which isn’t fun.
2.) people seem to forget jennah is a powerful Mesmer. She wouldn’t be easily assassinated. (If I remember. She can terraform the land itself)
3.) even with all their power. I’m not sure the white mantle that’s being painted by the raids aren’t strong enough to take DR
4.) the gods have been gone long before Arah fell. Before the cataclysm of Orr, before even GW1. I don’t think they would suddenly come back. Even if they did. I don’t think they would directly fight the dragons.
Just my 2 cents. I would much rather fight palawa joko than the elder lizards
Eh, i dont really see an issue with instancing the orr part of the story. I just want something truly significant to happen in the world rather than just LA changing over and over.
Also, anyone can die, no matter how powerful something is generally capable of stopping you, she wasnt powerful enough to not need logan in Ebonhawke.
Yeah im not sure how strong they are, but you never know.
Also, there are plenty of other things I’d rather see, but i’m just talking about what could be cool for whats happening now
Considering that Jennah has already survived a kidnapping attempt by dint of having been an illusion the whole time, and the Shining Blade clearly knows that the White Mantle is increasing its activity, a successful assassination of Queen Jennah would probably require idiot-ball-carrying of Captain’s-Council-believing-Scarlet-won’t-attack-the-same-place-twice proportions.
And I, for one, don’t feel the game needs to destroy a city every couple of years. Not saying it can’t happen, but there is no quota that says a city has to be destroyed between every major release or something.
(And seriously, why does every single “kill off a leader” proposal have Jennah as the target? I want to see someone proposing that Smodur or the Arcane Council gets knocked off. I’m not saying I necessarily want to see either of those actually happen in-game, but when people call for a leader to get knocked off it’s Jennah every. single. time.)
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
(edited by draxynnic.3719)
Jennah is the primary thought because there are reasons for it other than her being the queen of DR.
1) I fail to see why Jennah’s death is a requirement for the White Mantle plot to become relevant. And besides, lore in the raid wing 2 imply, to me, that the White Mantle are more preparing for an all out war.
More likely we’ll see a simultaneous assault on multiple locations occurring in the open world and in story instances, resulting in catching the Seraph (and presumably the Shining Blade) off guard.
2) It would be veyr weird for Jennah to be assassinated so easily. We’ve already seen three failed assassination attempts on her life. One (Separatists) prevented by her maintaining an impenetrable shield, the second (Scarlet) by her and the Shining Blade putting in an illusionary double, and the third (Kellach) varied a bit depending on your order choice, but iirc two of three were cases of “illusion double”, the third being a Priory device hiding and protecting the subject from risen.
3) Divinity’s Reach won’t ever become enemy territory. For one simple reason: it’s a starter area. People seem to think that Lion’s Arch being destroyed means that anywhere is available for destruction, but if you think about it, ArenaNet almost never alters the starter areas (racial cities + 1-15 zones). When the mordrem assaulted the Grove, we saw no change in the open world, for example.
It would cause huge issues for the first three chapters of the Personal Story for humans too.
4) Orr might have had its cleansing begin just before the end of the Personal Story, now three years ago, but the risen remained a threat and the risen continued to spread corruption – even if in a limited degree. There’s actually no indication that Orr is fully cleansed and all indication points that it is still a hostile territory, in fact.
Besides, we’re already been told that the human claim over Orr is tenuous.
5) Your specific suggestion would entirely kitten up the personal story from beginning to end, in every sense of the concept, and you’d have to rework four zones (in appearance and NPC/event spawning, voice overs, etc.) on top of over 50 story instances and presumably removing a dungeon. It just won’t happen. That’s far to much work for ArenaNet to merit the worth of the plot – which honestly, isn’t that good.
6) The gods left over a thousand years ago, when Orr was well populated. Why would they return now that it’s populated again? Them leaving had nothing to do with Orr, but the fact that they nearly destroyed an entire continent from their infighting and bad decisions.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
You guys are all arguing one simple point “It would be hard for this to happen so it can’t”
I am very aware of the assassination attempts, the fact DR is a starting area, and the fact that many things would have to be redone, i dont see why any of this is relevant in speculation of events that could occur. There is a first time for everything, and there needs to be a major chabge to the world i think. Nothing major has ever happened. The biggest thing was one city got reskinned.
Also, never did i say Jennah dying was a requirement, nor did i ever say it would be easy. I was simply stating something i thought would be cool. Something else that would be cooler? The mysterious deaths of all the leaders of each city. That would cause some fun stuff.
I do not think the white mantle attacking multiple places at once would be much fun, becayse we would get the same events we have now. Every 45 minutes there would be some nonesense attack on some outpost and we defeat them and move and and the story acts like it didnt happen.
I simply want something bigger than we have seen, and you guys act like its impossible because they havent done it before lol
The argument isn’t “It can’t happen because it’s hard”, it’s “It’s too hard to be worth it.” You’re talking about a major overhaul of several core systems in exchange for a player wow factor that’ll wear off in, what, a month tops? And after that, if you’ll forgive me a slippery slope, when the players get bored again they’ll want the next one to be bigger, and then bigger, until you get spectacle creep ad absurdum. That’s not a sustainable direction for the game, and frankly, I’m already sick of areas getting wrecked for that sort of thing. (Looking at you most particularly, Greyhoof Meadows. You were great back in the day.)
I get that you want things shaken up. Really, I do, and I feel it too. But I don’t think bigger and flashier is the answer. The problem isn’t that ANet’s stories don’t have impact on the world- they absolutely do- it’s that those impacts are spaced months or years apart with essentially no plot progression in-between these days. Turning DR into a raid won’t prevent burnout after two months of running it, and then players will be on the forums complaining that nothing major has ever happened, that the biggest thing was one region got reskinned.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I agree with a lot that you have said, but I don’t think it’s all spacing entirely. You say the events impact the world, and they do for sure, but not in a memorable way. I think its equal parts my point and yours. Also, by no menas am I meaning to bash Anet, I don’t have their job I don’t know all of the difficulties, and I have been playing this game for nearly 4 years for a reason. That being said this world we have is far from “living” in my opinion. Other games have nearly everything gw2 does, gw2 just does most things better and has a good mix of features other games have making it a better game to many people.
I think missed opportunities are the main reason a lot of people boomerang this game so much, and its a shame. There are so many plot lines that get ignored and the ones we do get are lackluster to a lot of people in the end. I truly don’t think we have had any MAJOR events in the game yet that constitute the small things we do get. Hell a lot of the time post HoT has been fixing and cutting systems they put in place with HoT that were supposed to be the end of system editing so they could focus on content in the future, and its been over half a year, and with the exception of raids, (which I appreciate but dont count as living world features do to the fact that so few can actually do them) we have only gotten little tiny updates that have very low impact on the day to day players of the game.
You guys are all arguing one simple point “It would be hard for this to happen so it can’t”
If that’s all you got out of my post, then you didn’t read it.
To simplify, I said:
- Despite your argument, it is not needed to progress the plot.
- Assassinating Jennah would be rather odd and hard to pull the story off well (aka what drax said) given past stories. Regardless of subject matter, not doing a story well could make potentially awesome events into pathetically sad ones.
- It would be too confusing for new players, something ArenaNet avoids like the plague. Remember when Anet took out chapter 7 (greatest fear arc) from the PS? Ever hear the confusion over LA’s appearance in PS versus open world? This would get a worse reaction.
- No indication Orr is fully cleansed or safe – in fact, indications are otherwise. Therefore, would not make sense storywise.
- It’s too hard to be worth the effort to ArenaNet. It would also be removing a lot of content – remember the backlash of S1’s temporariness? Or the removal of the greatest fear arc?
- Your addendum wouldn’t make sense as it isn’t tied to why the gods left.
I am very aware of the assassination attempts, the fact DR is a starting area, and the fact that many things would have to be redone, i dont see why any of this is relevant in speculation of events that could occur.
It has everything to do with your speculation of events.
There is a first time for everything, and there needs to be a major chabge to the world i think. Nothing major has ever happened. The biggest thing was one city got reskinned.
Honestly, I think this is too major of a something. I disagree that there “needs” to be a major change, in this sense at least, and I don’t think this would be beneficial at all. Anyone who’s new to the game would be forced into seeing this new version of the personal story and be confused as hell as to why they’re starting the game in the heart of what they’re told to be enemy territory.
I mean, hell, we frequently get confused people asking why the hell LA looks different in the personal story. There were dozens of complaints about the removal of the greatest fear arc. There is ever increasing complaints about the lack of Season 1 story in the game. Just imagine the outrage there would be if ArenaNet ignored all these complaints and did even more things that go to what people are complaining about.
It’d be on par to keeping desert borderlands, as it was at HoT release, as the only WvW borderlands to play in ever.
I was simply stating something i thought would be cool. Something else that would be cooler? The mysterious deaths of all the leaders of each city. That would cause some fun stuff.
Honestly, I disagree. What is cool isn’t the “what happens” but the “how well it is shown and how much sense it makes”.
LA’s destruction was in of itself cool, but the story for it was utterly ridiculous and full of plot holes and idiot ball carrying. Same with Tower of Nightmares.
I do not think the white mantle attacking multiple places at once would be much fun, becayse we would get the same events we have now. Every 45 minutes there would be some nonesense attack on some outpost and we defeat them and move and and the story acts like it didnt happen.
And all leaders being assaulted at the same time is different?
Oh, wait, all leaders being killed. Meaning we have no way to stop it, just like what I said. :P
I simply want something bigger than we have seen, and you guys act like its impossible because they havent done it before lol
No, it’s impossible because the form of what you’re asking is too much work for worth and would incite so much toxicity from the playerbase against ArenaNet – and we’ve seen how they react to negative feedback (they revoke it in any way possible then pretend it doesn’t exist – see retcons done to Scarlet’s background, underwater combat, desert borderlands, etc.), so I doubt they would do what was hated before intentionally.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Best white mantle storyline progression in my mind:
Reintroduce the most interesting race (in my opinion) that Anet have created.
Long live the Unseen! Maybe Lazarus mastered asexual reproduction.
@ Konig. If you don’t take some risks and prioritize elements then you will lose far more potential players than you would current players. More value in the former.
IMO – With all the failures GW2 has had so far (subjective, don’t comment just to disagree), they should be focusing on what made GW1 successful to begin with – A good fantasy story, which was on a tiny budget in comparison.
When I heard GW2 was coming out, I expected epicness round every corner, what I found was disappointing.
You guys are all arguing one simple point “It would be hard for this to happen so it can’t”
If that’s all you got out of my post, then you didn’t read it.
To simplify, I said:
- Despite your argument, it is not needed to progress the plot.
I never said this was needed, i. Think it would be very smart for them to do something much larger scale than they have in the past
You guys are all arguing one simple point “It would be hard for this to happen so it can’t”
If that’s all you got out of my post, then you didn’t read it.
To simplify, I said:
- Despite your argument, it is not needed to progress the plot.
I never said this was needed, i. Think it would be very smart for them to do something much larger scale than they have in the past
Agree. Something with more presence and relevence.
@ Konig. If you don’t take some risks and prioritize elements then you will lose far more potential players than you would current players. More value in the former.
IMO – With all the failures GW2 has had so far (subjective, don’t comment just to disagree), they should be focusing on what made GW1 successful to begin with – A good fantasy story, which was on a tiny budget in comparison.
When I heard GW2 was coming out, I expected epicness round every corner, what I found was disappointing.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t take risks. I’m saying that this is one that WILL have negative impact. Because it’s an extreme version of things already done, and every single one of those things had negative impact.
If you flick a person’s ear and they shout at you, you don’t go punching them in the ear next.
GW1 had more to it than its story – I’ve been replaying it recently and I feel one of the major differences between GW1 and GW2 is not just the story feel, but the gameplay itself. But that’s neither here or there. I don’t think completely reworking the original story and switching the starting/ending areas of one of the player race options will “fix the story”.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
@ Konig. If you don’t take some risks and prioritize elements then you will lose far more potential players than you would current players. More value in the former.
IMO – With all the failures GW2 has had so far (subjective, don’t comment just to disagree), they should be focusing on what made GW1 successful to begin with – A good fantasy story, which was on a tiny budget in comparison.
When I heard GW2 was coming out, I expected epicness round every corner, what I found was disappointing.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t take risks. I’m saying that this is one that WILL have negative impact. Because it’s an extreme version of things already done, and every single one of those things had negative impact.
If you flick a person’s ear and they shout at you, you don’t go punching them in the ear next.
GW1 had more to it than its story – I’ve been replaying it recently and I feel one of the major differences between GW1 and GW2 is not just the story feel, but the gameplay itself. But that’s neither here or there. I don’t think completely reworking the original story and switching the starting/ending areas of one of the player race options will “fix the story”.
When only Prophecies was out, there wasn’t a lot to the game but the story. And boy I remember it coming out and playing it. At the time, it was absolutely awesome. The game developed great mechanics for team/solo builds over time, which was arguably my second favourite element of the game. The synergy in builds was awesome.
No I agree. Forget the personal story etc, it’s too much money at this point to revamp it.
But like I have done in the past, I’d hope that said posts I keep making are read and considered. This game is yearning for some great story.
I remember showing friends the trailer for GW2 before it came out – it didn’t reveal a lot of purpose of the game, but showed a lot of potential for a big world and great mechanics. Everyone thought the trailers for GW1 & GW2 were awesome. I played it for a while after it came out, tried to get friends playing (which they did for a very short time), then stopped soon after with a fair amount of reasons for disliking the game – fair enough. One of those elements was the story, completely understandble in my opinion, but I kept playing myself, hoping they will pick it up. The HoT story was a massive improvement, it’s easily noticeable in the work done, I’m not going to go as far as saying it’s great; maybe it did its purpose in showing Anet where they should try to focus some more resources in the future.
I think a true campaign story which changes the story aesthetic in a large way, from seemingly incredible cheese, to much darker stories and elements.
I’ve made the comparison in a few other places, it’s hard to make such a comparison, but in elements of evil, ‘demonic’/possession, the ideas in Nightfall, Varesh, in comparison to Scarlet, is just a bit strange. Varesh says some pretty dark things. Scarlet says some… slightly disturbing things. It’s a really strange juxtaposition which slightly highlights the change in story style. Again, perhaps it’s trying to push for a larger demographic. I’m not sure I agree in the attempt, but if that was the case – I do understand why they did it at least.
Oh… I babbled on that long? Procrastination from revision at its finest!
-snip-
I actually agree with… just about all of that. The tone of the story feels discordant with the world they’ve tried to establish, and in that one regard HoT is definitely better than anything that’s come before. I don’t think it’s a matter of scale, though- after all, we’ve had the next best thing to an eldritch abomination awaken, nearly kill the godlike mother of a race, and tear down the only organization prepared to stand against it with astounding ease. No, the issue I see isn’t the scale of what’s happening, but the actions of the NPCs and the workings of the game mechanics belittling it. That’s been a problem throughout the second game, but for HoT specifically, imagine how much of that feeling of epicness we’d regain if only our character had stayed focused on the dragon instead of stumbling their way by accident into the final fight, and if that final fight had mechanically been more than a long, drawn-out grind with invulnerability phases that weren’t remotely threatening.
The events of the story are already epic- the trouble is that everything else undermines them. Assassinating Queen Jennah and invading Divinty’s Reach- or even just bringing the mursaat back- without changing that underlying problem would only provide more of the same.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
-snip-
I actually agree with… just about all of that. The tone of the story feels discordant with the world they’ve tried to establish, and in that one regard HoT is definitely better than anything that’s come before. I don’t think it’s a matter of scale, though- after all, we’ve had the next best thing to an eldritch abomination awaken, nearly kill the godlike mother of a race, and tear down the only organization prepared to stand against it with astounding ease. No, the issue I see isn’t the scale of what’s happening, but the actions of the NPCs and the workings of the game mechanics belittling it. That’s been a problem throughout the second game, but for HoT specifically, imagine how much of that feeling of epicness we’d regain if only our character had stayed focused on the dragon instead of stumbling their way by accident into the final fight, and if that final fight had mechanically been more than a long, drawn-out grind with invulnerability phases that weren’t remotely threatening.
The events of the story are already epic- the trouble is that everything else undermines them. Assassinating Queen Jennah and invading Divinty’s Reach- or even just bringing the mursaat back- without changing that underlying problem would only provide more of the same.
Good post.
I agree, the underlying issue of NPC interaction and a sense of believability undermines the story a lot. Perhaps with a small change in that regard, the story may have been presented far better.
I agree as well, thinking about it. The story isn’t small scale, but poorly executed in many ways. To be fair though HoT was an expansion, not a LW update, so i’d expect more from it to begin with, but alas.
Side note, does anyone else think the nearly cringeworthy linear attitude of the PC is a major issue? I honestly hate hearing my character talk becayse I hate the things she says. Might jusr be the human female but the whole “stay pisitive and we can win through friendship” thjng is very, very irritating to me. I want my character to be kittened and charismatic, not always about making sure everyone is happy. Though that is largely my opinion, the things my character says a lot if the time in HoT are like nails to chalkboard.
I didn’t mind the HoT dialogue too much- it was far more take charge, let’s get this done people, far more Pact commander, than it was in the PS- but I will be honest, most of the time I barely glance at my side of the conversation during text box dialogue. Our characters feel like they were meant to be blank slate protagonists, though, so for the most part I chalk it up to the difficulty of giving blank slates things to say. Especially voice lines, where some nuance of emphasis and emotional context are unavoidable.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
WHAT IF…..the White Mantle were under orders from the Mursaat to gather as much bloodstones as possible to use as soul batteries? What if the Mursaat used these batteries to fully charge their powers? What if they needed said powers to turn on their true boss….a Bloodstone Dragon! And the body of Saul D’Alessio was the fully charged soul battery keeping said dragon locked up? Just saying…..
Just saying that makes no sense whatsoever.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
I tend to agree with Konig that Divinity’s Reach won’t become hostile territory. But I do believe there could still be lasting impact on the city.
The White Mantle could destroy the Crown Pavilion, for example. I have hated that thing ever since they removed the Balthazar fighting shrine and the Great Collapse in favor of it. And frankly, it has always looked out of place and overly decadent to me – keeping in mind that the rest of Kryta struggles severely with all sorts of attacks and money is very much needed for warfare.
I, too, would love to see the Crown pavilion destroyed, and possibly even have a part of DR temporarily become a warzone ala Lion’s Arch, only to return almost to normal before long. But I stick very loyally to my headcanon, which is that the Mantle won’t destroy the Pavilion; the Destroyers will. Because Jennah delved too greedily, and too deep.