Guild Wars 2

Doesn’t that make a tonne of content seem pretty silly? A good number of events in the game are escorts from one location to another. Why wouldn’t these NPCs just waypoint their reinforcements? Why not waypoint the supplies? Why didn’t the citizens in Lion’s Arch just waypoint out of the city? Why would anyone pay the Lionguard to protect trade routes when they can just waypoint around the place? A few silver for a waypoint is hardly comparable to what it must cost to pay someone to risk their lives to escort you or protect your caravan.

When I think about expense of using them I still have to believe the benefits outweigh the cost (one of the reason consumables are used by players despite expense is the speed they allow you to complete content and acquire more rewards is greater than rewards spent on the consumables). When I consider that waypoints can be contested this has several problems including double standards for players and NPCs as well as the belief that a good number of situations it wouldn’t make sense to argue that a waypoint is contested.

Then you have the idea that a waypoint negates city defenses. Scarlet didn’t need to build a diverse army – she could have waypointed the entire thing into the middle of Lion’s Arch.

It seems to me that waypoints really mess up a lot of the game because it trivialises travel and all the complexities that come with it. They are necessary as a game mechanic to allow players access to remote areas easily but as a lore mechanic they just make so many things seem silly. The idea that waypoints are a lore thing seems to have so many crappy lore complications for such a small pay off.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Waypoints-2/first#post3461921

I believe – lorewise – the situation is fourfold:

1) Not everyone has access to the waypoints.
2) Waypoints cost money even in lore. Not everyone would have the money.
3) Waypoints don’t seem capable of moving entire caravans, just individuals and what’s on said individuals. Perhaps if dolyaks were sentient enough to use waypoints, maybe then it’d work, but I doubt it’d work for carts and wagons.
4) Waypoints may be new (at least, by all appearances it seems based off of Snaff’s little instant teleporter used near the end of Edge of Destiny).

As to “city defenses” – again, not everyone can use them it seems (as such, I doubt that dredge and krait would be allowed access ever – Flame Legion, Aetherblades, and Nightmare Court could probably disguise themselves but still…), and it seems they must be maintained (hence the contested status – this is most prevalent in Orr).

But yeah, waypoints is one of the “wtf this doesn’t make sense” things added into GW2.

But then again, what about resurrection shrines in GW1? That was presented as lore in that game – though it seems retconed out now like resurrection in general – so if such things existed, why never have them in towns and why would death ever be an issue?

Waypoints from a lore perspective is dumb.
It raises more questions than it answers to say that they’re “asura-made devices created to facilitate travel” or whatever.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

2) Waypoints cost money even in lore. Not everyone would have the money.

Logan: “Taimi, you’re coming with me to Rata Sum.”
Taimi: “Are you paying for the waypoints?”
Logan: “. . . well there goes my pay for the next year.”

3) Waypoints don’t seem capable of moving entire caravans, just individuals and what’s on said individuals. Perhaps if dolyaks were sentient enough to use waypoints, maybe then it’d work, but I doubt it’d work for carts and wagons.

No, dolyaks require asura gates which can be shut off remotely. Yes, I’m still bitter about Evon pulling that crap.

But yeah, waypoints is one of the “wtf this doesn’t make sense” things added into GW2.

But then again, what about resurrection shrines in GW1? That was presented as lore in that game – though it seems retconed out now like resurrection in general – so if such things existed, why never have them in towns and why would death ever be an issue?

Resurrection Shrines were one of the biggest lore problems of mechanics in GW1, right up there with the yet-unexplained party limit being so small for important tasks. (“I only get how many allies to try to save Rin from a charr advance?!”)

Normally, asura gates cannot be shut off remotely. Which is why Shudd was surprised that Evon was able to. In the books – particularly Ghosts of Ascalon – as well as the gatekeeper NPC dialogues show that they are very much manual configurations and have to be tuned on both ends before they work properly.

Also, the party limit was never a lore state as far as I’m aware – for either game. It’s purely mechanics, like levels and folks having oh so many skills at a single time.

Personally, I would find it so much better if ANet just officially stated that things like WPs and ress.shrines are not lore. But simply game mechanics.
Even though I am a big fan of the game’s lore, I also aknowledge that it is a game. Sadly, (in my opinion) connecting minor game mechanics like these to lore; weakens the game’s backstory instead of strengthening it.

I would be perfectly fine if they just said “WP doesn’t exist in Tyria. It’s just a game mechanic”. Even better: they could remove the in-game graphic, only making them visible on your map UI. To me, that would make the world feel a little bit more natural and realistic, and would also greatly strengthen the lore about Asura gates!

…not that this keeps me awake at night :P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Normally, asura gates cannot be shut off remotely. Which is why Shudd was surprised that Evon was able to. In the books – particularly Ghosts of Ascalon – as well as the gatekeeper NPC dialogues show that they are very much manual configurations and have to be tuned on both ends before they work properly.

Yup.

I say Evon’s got some explaining to do on how he did that and if anyone else can. If he’s the only one who knows how . . . well, how about we get Kiel to reassign him to Orr? And if he refuses to speak, get us four mesmers and a locked room – it’ll come out.

Can we also assume that WPs are controlled by the Captain’s Council? Ellen Kiel promised us reduce prices and I don’t see other way of doing that. Don’t believe she owns them…

There are some things that are what I consider “hard” lore and some that are “soft” lore. The calendar change is so insanely tiny and really has nothing to do with the actual story of GW. That’s what I consider soft lore. WPs, rezzes, these things are game mechanics that are given a bit of fun flavor. I don’t think too much about them.

Lore is always secondary to the actual game because the lore accentuates the game rather than the game accentuating the lore.

Underdark.3726:

Can we also assume that WPs are controlled by the Captain’s Council? Ellen Kiel promised us reduce prices and I don’t see other way of doing that. Don’t believe she owns them…

They are controlled and owned by the Arcane Council – the asura government.

Kiel negotiated with them lore wise to reduce the costs.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

They are controlled and owned by the Arcane Council – the asura government.

Kiel negotiated with them lore wise to reduce the costs.

I wonder if she negotiated in the same way as she did with the Fractal…

Shiren.9532:

A good number of events in the game are escorts from one location to another.

Most likely waypoints don’t work in lore the same way they work in game, i.e. you probably can’t waypoint from any location to a waypoint. Most likely it’s from waypoint to waypoint, meaning that an escort from A to B might be quicker then going to waypoint C first (ignoring the cost implications… Asura are greedy…).

Shiren.9532:

Why wouldn’t these NPCs just waypoint their reinforcements? Why not waypoint the supplies?

To discuss this we’d probably need specific instances, although I must say, the lack of waypoint usage in dynamic events is a bit odd.

Shiren.9532:

Why didn’t the citizens in Lion’s Arch just waypoint out of the city?

Scarlet Alliance attacked out of the blue, and one of the first things they hit was the asura gates to the other capitals. Also smaller asura gates tend to be temperamental, they keep not working whenever an event is going on near them :P

Shiren.9532:

Why would anyone pay the Lionguard to protect trade routes when they can just waypoint around the place? A few silver for a waypoint is hardly comparable to what it must cost to pay someone to risk their lives to escort you or protect your caravan.

From in lore examples waypoints are a lot more expensive then for players. It does then raise the question, is there a lore reason for this? Are Charr characters’ travel costs being covered in majority by the Black Citadel?

Shiren.9532:

When I consider that waypoints can be contested this has several problems including double standards for players and NPCs as well as the belief that a good number of situations it wouldn’t make sense to argue that a waypoint is contested.

I’m guessing like many asuran creations waypoints stop working when you look at them funny. At least they don’t explode and create waypoint-elementals.

Shiren.9532:

The idea that waypoints are a lore thing seems to have so many crappy lore complications for such a small pay off.

Not really, there are some issues not covered by lore, cost and ease of use primarily, which we can brush off as being game mechanics. I guess ANet could flesh things out a bit but that seems like a lot of effort.

random side note:

Q: why waypoints become contested, why don’t NPCs do the WvW strategy of swarming the waypoint once it becomes uncontested to bring reinforcements?

A: downtime. this isn’t expressed in PvE because it would be really, really frustrating, but i imagine there’s a decent amount of time where your body is vulnerable while using a waypoint, unable to act or react, making for an easy target. so the waypoints become contested as a safeguard mechanism to keep people from dying. in other words, you must secure an area before the waypoint turns itself on.

a good example of this in game is on WvW, when people time a waypoint inside a keep to defend it from invaders. just how many players die in the process? a lot, and it would be a lot more if “AoE cap” wasn’t a problem. why do they die? because they stand still there for a while before they regain control of their character, and even then, there’s a couple seconds before you situate yourself.

so there’s why you escort people to places instead of walking around: because waypoints have a safeguard that keeps you from using them when there’s threat around, in order to ensure you don’t die. that, and all the other reasons given already.

Fluffball.8307:

There are some things that are what I consider “hard” lore and some that are “soft” lore. The calendar change is so insanely tiny and really has nothing to do with the actual story of GW. That’s what I consider soft lore. WPs, rezzes, these things are game mechanics that are given a bit of fun flavor. I don’t think too much about them.

That’s pretty much how I see it. There’s a lot of things in the game where the answer is basically: “Asura”. It’s the equivalent of saying: “Magic did it”. And I can just shrug and not think about it too much. I know, it’s a bit lazy writing wise. But for the sake of game mechanics, I’m fine with it.

I think it’s good that they at least acknowledge that the way points ‘exist’, and that the people of Tyria can also see them. But I consider it ‘soft lore’.

Honestly I’ve always thought of them as just a game mechanic thing and not something that’s actually there.
Anet should have made it so and not try to work it into lore, it’s bad enough they make the world map feel 100 times smaller.

They are introduced in Edge of Destiny and have the requirement that the point has already been visited, to get there again. The Asura at all have the power over the portals and waypoints and everybody has to pay them for the travel (and we are wealthy in comparing to common Tyrians).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Underdark.3726:

Can we also assume that WPs are controlled by the Captain’s Council? Ellen Kiel promised us reduce prices and I don’t see other way of doing that. Don’t believe she owns them…

They are controlled and owned by the Arcane Council – the asura government.

Kiel negotiated with them lore wise to reduce the costs.

Also there invention was in the Destinies Edge book. Snaffs portal device they used to get to Crystal desert and what Logan used to run away taking there only escape route with him.

If i was a centaur chief trying to hold the Hinterlands against those wretched two-legs, i would do all in my power to destroy their instant reinforcement device floating in the middle of our camps. Or just basicly barricade them. Or make the slaves dig a deep hole right below it. With spikes.

If i was a powerful risen priestess of Lyssa, when im hanging out in the middle of the temple, i wouldnt just stare at the waypoint right in front of me. I dont care if its just blinking red and does nothing. It wasnt here before. Those annoying mortals must have brought it. Destroy it at once.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

(and we are wealthy in comparing to common Tyrians).

Not true, many of the peasant NPCs are in full ascended berserker gear with an Eternity, they’re just in their town clothes.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless

A: Waypoints cost money. It’s likely cheaper to simply walk there then pay waypoint fees for going back and forth.
B: We’ve NEVER seen or heard about it being used for supplies, or larger things like wagons/siege golems/etc.
C: Likewise, we don’t really see it or hear about it being used for large groups of people at a single time.

Hell, in canon (And stated by NPCs ingame), there is a charge for the Asura Gates as well (Or at least, a charge for moving any time of shipment through it). We don’t get it (I like to say it’s some sort of deal between orders and Arcane council. But that’s headcanon :P I assume the gates at the order headquarters are somewhat exempt from this as opposed to city ones)

In the end, the average citizen may simply find it cheaper or more affordable to simply take a few day trip to head from LA to DR. There is a Norn citizen in Snowden who is taking her sick/weak child to Hoelbrek by land, likely the waypoint or asura gate would be too expensive.