Guild Wars 2

http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/home

Hi everyone!

So, I know that there are a handful of people who are really dedicated to lore in the thread too. So, if you follow that link above, it’ll take you to the home page of GW2RP. There, I have an interview I did with (as the title says) Scott McGough and Angel McCoy. I hope you enjoy it!

You can click here for the darker version
http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/forum/page/1/m/2737230/viewthread/9902543-2rps-lore-interview-arenanet/post/56212770#p56212770

I want to give this shout out here too. Angel McCoy, Scott McGough, and Stéphane Lo Presti, you were all wonderful and easy to work with. The material you have provided will be amazing for discussions. I want to thank those who take the time to read, discuss, and comment on this interview! Admittedly, it’s my first one. So, I’m quite thrilled with how it turned out. For now, that’s all from me. I hope you enjoy this as much as I do.

*does a double take

The Soundlessness (not the actual term) was developed by a firstborn?

Which one, I wonder…

Also, it was nice to see Angel return to the questions she sowed regarding the bloodstones. Seeing how toxic that proved last time, I had given up hope that it would be addressed again.

Wow, I completely looked over the mention of a Firstborn, Aaron. Hah.

Nice to see that Angel provided some actual clarification on the first of three messes Angel’s old interview made (the Bloodstones’ magic/schools; “all people can use magic” despite seeing NPCs and book characters who clearly don’t, and the calendar BS) as opposed to that response of “clarification” that was given in the old thread about it which clarified a grand total of nothing. Also good to see a clarification on the weapon focus thing – was wondering that myself since reading the book.

Now if we can get some clarification on the other two lore-rending bits from that old interview, and an improvement to Scarlet. Then I may have faith in ArenaNet again. Until then, it remains lost.

Will definitely check this out. Thank you!

So what I assume lore fans now know are:

1. Dual professions are out because the individual “classes” adapted various forms of magic and grew stronger individually. This is showcased by the fact that every class has their own forms of CC, heals, and unique abilities to do things they couldn’t do 250 years ago.

1. Former known elite skills are now either part of your traits or are part of your weapon skillsets because they grew strong enough or are used in such a different manner that they lose their elite status and became integral to the classes. The increasing magic meant skills could be used differently too E.G. The elementalist’s flameburst going from point blank AoE with damage to a ranged burning AoE skill.

Speculation: Consequently, this led to new elites to take their place?

Speculation: Changing magic = changing skills = nerfs and buffs to skills/traits?

Could the way skills and traits operate in both games be viewed as a result of magic changing and increasing/decreasing throughout time?

Does this also mean that our characters “wake up one morning” and noticed an instant change to their skills/traits, or was it a gradual change that culminates in the skills/traits becoming noticeably stronger/weaker/harder to perform and thus need more trait points?

I don’t think balance changes have any holding on lore, except possibly through everyone simultaneously deciding “hey, I’ll change this skill from how it worked to work a different way” which seems incredibly unrealistic so I’d just slap the “Mechanics!” bumper sticker on it.

I agree with Konig. The changing of magic doesn’t change the spells; it just allows people to find new and better spells.

DanteZero.9736:

So what I assume lore fans now know are:

1. Dual professions are out because the individual “classes” adapted various forms of magic and grew stronger individually. This is showcased by the fact that every class has their own forms of CC, heals, and unique abilities to do things they couldn’t do 250 years ago.

1. Former known elite skills are now either part of your traits or are part of your weapon skillsets because they grew strong enough or are used in such a different manner that they lose their elite status and became integral to the classes. The increasing magic meant skills could be used differently too E.G. The elementalist’s flameburst going from point blank AoE with damage to a ranged burning AoE skill.

Speculation: Consequently, this led to new elites to take their place?

Speculation: Changing magic = changing skills = nerfs and buffs to skills/traits?

Could the way skills and traits operate in both games be viewed as a result of magic changing and increasing/decreasing throughout time?

Does this also mean that our characters “wake up one morning” and noticed an instant change to their skills/traits, or was it a gradual change that culminates in the skills/traits becoming noticeably stronger/weaker/harder to perform and thus need more trait points?

Unfortunately the necro got nothing replace the likes of Spiteful Spirit and Spoiled Victor. Maybe by lore these 2 spells are still widely used by necromancers in GW2, but for game play balance they are removed.

It would be great if we get a clarification from the Devs: Are the GW1 versions of SS and SV still widely used in GW2? Are they only used by a few “ancient” necromancers? Or are these spells totally forgotten due to the passing of time?

The same goes for many other GW1 skills that has gone MIA in GW2, of course.

Anyways here is my educated guess. In GW1 we heroes learn the very basic magics and other skills in school. Afterwards we went into the wilderness and acquired very powerful spells and skills during our adventures. Many of these spells and skills are considered “unique” and very few people (in lore) should have access to them. We also find and use very powerful equipment along the way.

In GW1, heroes were VERY rare. It took many years to get this powerful. We were considered mega powerful, category 5 warriors and mages with unique skills and equipments.

In GW2 heroes learns everything from schools. The forefathers of these schools have picked which spells and skills to “mass train” the students, and which spells and skills to left out. The only limitation was your character’s level. Once you reach a level, the teaches in the cities will train you up. Crafters from town also sells you all the equipments you will need.

So in GW2, there are a lot more heroes. They had been trained by schools and equipped by crafters. The standardization is much better in GW2, with everyone using pretty much the same skills. That means lore wise it is much faster to train up a GW2 hero. However they are not of the same quality as GW1 heroes. Not even close. Heroes in GW2 is probably only category 3.

Of course, technology in GW2 is much higher than it was in GW1. So that makes up for some of the difference.

GW1: A few highly elite heroes with unique abilities saves the day.
GW2: A mass produced and standardized army of warriors and mages saving the day.

Well, spell wise GW2 did give the necro the Blood Fiend, which is the first flying minion. So lore wise I would say this indicates magical progress, even if it’s just a game mechanic. But hey, I’m a necromancer, and minions are serious business.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Well, spell wise GW2 did give the necro the Blood Fiend, which is the first flying minion. So lore wise I would say this indicates magical progress, even if it’s just a game mechanic. But hey, I’m a necromancer, and minions are serious business.

Well sure a flying minion is an accomplishment but overall it feels like in focusing on improving individual minion abilities (blood fiend’s flying, active spells designed for specific minions, eliminating their degeneration, even allowing some to regenerate) they lost some of the sheer power that GW1 minions had. Namely the ability to summon large numbers of them quickly (with high death magic and abilities like Aura of the Lich) and augment their damage and abilities to truly impressive levels with abilities like Order of Undeath. (Seriously a GW2 version of Order of Undeath is my biggest wish for necromancers)

To me it feels as if the Blood Fiend is the end result of years of necromancer experimentation. We had Vampiric Horrors in GW1, which provided more healing the more you had of them. The Blood Fiend could be seen as a more elegant evolution of those minions. You no longer need multiple, just one, and it doesn’t die over time any more, and on top of that it can fly and works underwater!

We can also see this with the exploding bone horrors. In GW1 you needed a specific skill to make minions explode on death, and you couldn’t give them commands. The GW2 necromancer has learned to better control its minions, and how to make them follow simple commands. Plus the Death Nova skill is now a trait, so it’s sort of an innate ability now.

For future lore interviews, I hope someone would ask the writers about how Death Shroud came to be. I’m interested to know if they actually have some lore to back up this game mechanic.

I don’t think traits are “innate abilities” so much as “passively active spells” (or training experience, or equipment-on-hand – depending on which trait).

On the talk of necromancer development – I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned Wells! Previously they needed a corpse, now you can use them at will and if traited where you want too.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

On the talk of necromancer development – I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned Wells! Previously they needed a corpse, now you can use them at will and if traited where you want too.

That is a very good point indeed, and also an interesting way to view traits btw.

Lets also not forget Lich Form, which makes it seems like some of the Dervish powers have merged into the necromancer.

Nice read thanks.

So if magic became stronger since gw1 then the dragons havn’t been doing much since they have awoken. I would assume that their magic consumption would have made a dent in the total amount of magic in the world but apparantly its still on the rise.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

To me it feels as if the Blood Fiend is the end result of years of necromancer experimentation. We had Vampiric Horrors in GW1, which provided more healing the more you had of them. The Blood Fiend could be seen as a more elegant evolution of those minions. You no longer need multiple, just one, and it doesn’t die over time any more, and on top of that it can fly and works underwater!

We can also see this with the exploding bone horrors. In GW1 you needed a specific skill to make minions explode on death, and you couldn’t give them commands. The GW2 necromancer has learned to better control its minions, and how to make them follow simple commands. Plus the Death Nova skill is now a trait, so it’s sort of an innate ability now.

For future lore interviews, I hope someone would ask the writers about how Death Shroud came to be. I’m interested to know if they actually have some lore to back up this game mechanic.

Not just the blood fiend. Don’t forget there’s also the minion lifespan. There was the early quest you get at Yak’s Bend outpost where you had to hunt down Verata only to find out he was experimenting on creating self-sustaining (non-decaying) minions. His research notes could have been found later and dispersed amongst the community. Or it could have been improving magic. Or both, it’s my speculation.

Also, I agree with future lore interviews asking more specific questions. I’d love to find out how class mechanics came to be.

As an elementalist from both GW1 and 2, finding out I could switch between elements was a big deal. The moment I saw the class reveal page, it brought back memories of when I tried to experiment with Master of Magic (that one skill that, at the time, raised your elemental attributes to 12 and then later, 14) and creating a “true” elementalist-one capable of commanding all the elements at once.

But, hold on here… if magic has become more varied and powerful and we know that magic + ancient rituals became the Ritualist of GW1, shouldn’t they logically still be employed in GW2’s time? Now they’d be ever more powerful: instead of a few spirits, they could call down a host, etc. Hell, they’d probably be able to call living peoples’ souls now.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

*does a double take
The Soundlessness (not the actual term) was developed by a firstborn?

Which one, I wonder…

Also, it was nice to see Angel return to the questions she sowed regarding the bloodstones. Seeing how toxic that proved last time, I had given up hope that it would be addressed again.

Hm, this is a good question. All the Luminaries are described as guardians of the Pale Tree, Caithe probably wouldn’t need a technique like that, nor would Trehearne. Dagonet? Possibly, he studies the Dream and the dreams of all sylvari so it is feasible that he discovered how to distance oneself from it. Faolain? Mmm, I think the Nightmare Court wants as much contact with the Tree as possible.
That leaves the three unnamed and Riannoc, the first to die (and really, that’s like all we know).

Riannoc had a Wyld Hunt, iirc, so he probably wouldn’t be messing around with that sort of thing. I’m guessing it’s one of the unnamed ones, or Amaranda (there’s a line in her quest that could be interpreted to mean that she is a Firstborn… although the wiki seems to have decided she’s secondborn. Huh.) In any event, it’s heartening to be reminded that they haven’t forgotten about the remaining three.

As for the ritualist… the way that interview reads, I think the devs aren’t conceiving of it as “rituals in addition to modern spellcasting” but rather “rituals replacing in part modern spellcasting”. That would make the ritualist inherently less effective than an elementalist, or a mesmer, or what have you. Which is a shame. I miss my ritualist terribly…

Well, I’m off to play GW1.

EDIT: Ah, I see that Trahearne names her as secondborn if you choose to seek her. So much for that idea.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Riannoc had a Wyld Hunt, iirc, so he probably wouldn’t be messing around with that sort of thing. I’m guessing it’s one of the unnamed ones, or Amaranda (there’s a line in her quest that could be interpreted to mean that she is a Firstborn… although the wiki seems to have decided she’s secondborn. Huh.) In any event, it’s heartening to be reminded that they haven’t forgotten about the remaining three.

As for the ritualist… the way that interview reads, I think the devs aren’t conceiving of it as “rituals in addition to modern spellcasting” but rather “rituals replacing in part modern spellcasting”. That would make the ritualist inherently less effective than an elementalist, or a mesmer, or what have you. Which is a shame. I miss my ritualist terribly…

Well, I’m off to play GW1.

Ritualist spells should be added to the necromancer. They are along the same line of thinking.

Not really, though ANet is certainly leaning in that direction. The necromancer is about the curses and suffering that draw out dying and the remains left behind afterwards- the physical realm of death. The ritualist is entirely about the spiritual realm- spirits after they depart from the bodies soon to become a necromancers meat puppet. The tone of the necromancer class has a morbidity to it that does not sit easily with the ritualists role. Where the necromancer focuses on exacerbating the fear of death with ever more grotesque exemplars, the ritualist approaches it as a natural part of existence to respect and draw power from like any source. The tone is simply too different, and one class cannot take from another without stripping the additions of what made them distinct in the first place.

TL;DR: I love ritualists. I’m only fond of necromancers. I wouldn’t want to see the greater subsumed within the lesser.

Plus the ritualist spirit summonings were reincarnated as guardian spirit weapons. Guard= part paragon, part monk, and part ritualist.

The Ritualist stuff in the interview actually really bothered me. They’ve basically chucked in some lore reasoning to justify their decision not to include it as a profession.

The idea that Ritualist magic simply doesn’t stack up seems kind of absurd considering the techniques were developed before the common usage of what we now consider magic, and then expanded upon when said magic came into usage. Something that already combined multiple forms of magic has already shown that it is capable of being adapted, so the idea that it became redundant or weaker in comparison to, for example necromancy, seems weak.

Then there’s the fact that Ritualist’s abilities were a kind of ancestral magic, which is pretty darn awesome. Guardians and Engineers can go die, I want my Rit back >.>

Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t Ritualists’ magic innately connected to spirits, and not the magic flowing throughout Tyria?

If that’s true, then I can see why Ritualists would have faded out of existence. Because they are limited by the spirits they work with, there is a specific skill ceiling that they will eventually reach. Because magic has become much more rich in the last few hundred years, it’s entirely possible that magic-based classes are simply more powerful in comparison.

I think it more has to deal with the fact that Ritualists aren’t a Tyrian (continent) profession. Enough ritualists made the move to Tyria, during and in between Gw1 and Gw2, for their spells to be picked up by the populace, but there wasn’t enough for that profession to keep its identity. Slowly, ritualism died out in Tyria as magic seemingly got easier to do, but some of it’s spells got assimilated into the different Tyrian professions.

I’m sure, or I hope at least, that ritualists are still part of Canthan life, since it’s key cultural profession.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Then there’s the fact that Ritualist’s abilities were a kind of ancestral magic, which is pretty darn awesome. Guardians and Engineers can go die, I want my Rit back >.>

I know >.< Maybe if we offer them as sacrifice to the sacred ancestors?

Erukk.1408:

I think it more has to deal with the fact that Ritualists aren’t a Tyrian (continent) profession.

I really, really, want to believe you are right, and I seem to vaguely recall a dev statement to that effect… but I think my hopes may just be deluding me on that account. In any event, though, the problem is that none of that came through in McGough’s reply. He was asked point-blank if we would ever see ritualist magic return, and his answer wasn’t that it never took hold in the north or any other such cultural consideration- it was that that method had effectively been rendered defunct by newer, “better” ways of spellcasting. And as much as that makes sense, in it’s own kind of way, it is a terrible disappointment.

Keyce.8137:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t Ritualists’ magic innately connected to spirits, and not the magic flowing throughout Tyria?

If that’s true, then I can see why Ritualists would have faded out of existence. Because they are limited by the spirits they work with, there is a specific skill ceiling that they will eventually reach. Because magic has become much more rich in the last few hundred years, it’s entirely possible that magic-based classes are simply more powerful in comparison.

“Through their spirits, the Ritualists were able to practice magic, or something close to it. When magic was granted by the gods, many of the original abilities were strengthened and merged into their modern form. Though still relying on the power of the dead, their original skills are no longer a visible part of the profession.” – Of course that is from the wiki and isn’t really sourced. But I can’t be bothered digging right now, I might have more of a look later xD.

Also I get the feeling that in order to be able to have a secondary profession, Ritualsits, like all other professions, had to be in touch with the magic flowing throughout Tyria.

“According to historians, these early Ritualists from the pre-magic era relied on a similar power granted by the dead—by ancestors of the great and powerful who maintained a connection to their descendents. The power of Spirit allowed mortal humans to practice what might be seen as a form of magic. These human Ritualists adapted to true magic when the gods introduced it, but still rely on the Spirits of the dead to put these skills into practice. Unfortunately for scholars such as myself, the skills of the true Ritualist are no longer to be seen; but those that evolved from the merging of magic and Spirit certainly are widespread.” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Empire_Divided

Keyce.8137:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t Ritualists’ magic innately connected to spirits, and not the magic flowing throughout Tyria?

If that’s true, then I can see why Ritualists would have faded out of existence. Because they are limited by the spirits they work with, there is a specific skill ceiling that they will eventually reach. Because magic has become much more rich in the last few hundred years, it’s entirely possible that magic-based classes are simply more powerful in comparison.

That’s why ritualist should just mixed with necromacers. Necromancers are so weak right now and are getting nerfed to the ground all over the place. They could really use a boost. Give necromancers spirit summoning please. We need some love too. ^^

Mindless fresh minions+spirits=Resurrection of fully experienced warriors and mages.

BTW magic didn’t get more rich over the past few hundred years. Magic got more standardized. No one fights with unique skill bars anymore. Back in GW1 nearly every mage was unique (by lore). You can have 2 necromancers that fights in totally different styles. In GW2 everyone is more or less the same.

That last kittenIPS, is more due to mechanics than lore. The mechanic being “lack of skill diversity” – in GW1 by the time of Eye of the North each profession had nearly 125 skills (some many more some a little less with dervish and paragon being least amount of skills at, iirc, 85 profession-based ones). But in GW2, you are much more restricted in the number of skills – especially with the whole healing/utility/elite slots and the weapon-specific skills. And this choice was done for a balance reason – with well over 1,000 skills in the game it got hard to balance them all especially when you can combine any ~250 skills together at a single time.

Erukk.1408:

I think it more has to deal with the fact that Ritualists aren’t a Tyrian (continent) profession. Enough ritualists made the move to Tyria, during and in between Gw1 and Gw2, for their spells to be picked up by the populace, but there wasn’t enough for that profession to keep its identity. Slowly, ritualism died out in Tyria as magic seemingly got easier to do, but some of it’s spells got assimilated into the different Tyrian professions.

I’m sure, or I hope at least, that ritualists are still part of Canthan life, since it’s key cultural profession.

That’s pretty much it.

There was an interview – I think it was the TowerTalk lore of the professions interview – where Jeff and Ree went into this in detail. What it basically boiled down to for all of the non-core GW1 professions was that the home of those professions were in Cantha and Elona, and most of the teachers of those professions were there – and those that were in Tyria were mostly in Lion’s Arch. Having Lion’s Arch flooded and contact lost with other continents simultaneously was a double whammy that basically wiped out – some elements survived from those practitioners that were outside Lion’s Arch at the time that were absorbed into other professions (apparently more from the assassin than the others) but organised teaching of those professions in the ways they had been seen before disappeared and the skills were not available to reconstitute it.

Comments along the lines of “it’s not as powerful” should probably all have the caveat “in Tyrian magical studies” attached to them. The native professions have all been under development since GW1, and thus have become more powerful then they were in those days. Reconstituting one of the old professions, though, would require painstaking research just to get back to where it was in GW1, let alone becoming competitive with the modern professions – therefor, from the Tyrian perspective, these professions probably have become historical curiosities that at best can occasionally be plundered to add a spell or two to another profession rather than anything someone would want to study seriously. The Elonian or Canthan perspectives, however, may be very different.

Similar comments, incidentally, may be applied to the disappearance of particularly capabilities in a profession, such as the GW1 necromancer’s SS and SV. Notwithstanding that these specific skills are probably in the overlap zone with mesmer to begin with, as much as the asura would be loathe to admit it, of the currently playable races humans were probably the most advanced at the time of GW1 when it comes to direct spellcraft (asura were obviously ahead in technomagic) – partially due to having mixed traditions in multiple nations. We’ve been told a lot of knowledge was lost in the loss of Ascalon, Lion’s Arch, and southern Kryta, so it’s possible that not only have the foreign professions been lost, but spells and entire branches of local professions – and future practitioners have concentrated more on developing what they still had rather than recovering what was lost.

It would be interesting to see how the Ritualist has evolved in Cantha over these past 250 years. If we ever go there anyway. The influx of magic would effect them as much as it did the other professions, and they might have picked up and/or augmented spells from other professions, like we did to them here, over time. And since the Ritualist is rooted in Cantha’s cultural traditions, they can’t simply write them off.

Though, I’m kinda afraid they might be the “monk” of Gw2’s Cantha. They’re there, and you can see and talk to them, but you can’t play as one. It wouldn’t make sense for the other races to suddenly gain to urge to study the ancient magically arts of Cantha’s humans. Unless they use the…. monk example from WoW, and they just seed a bunch of ritualist trainers around the world for no reason other than to train the players.

kitten …
Now I want to play as a Charr ritualist, and he/she got into the subject as a possible way to help combat the Foefire spirits, since necromancy seems to be a dead end. It all makes sense in my head. Nooooooooo!

Erukk.1408:

It would be interesting to see how the Ritualist has evolved in Cantha over these past 250 years. If we ever go there anyway. The influx of magic would effect them as much as it did the other professions, and they might have picked up and/or augmented spells from other professions, like we did to them here, over time. And since the Ritualist is rooted in Cantha’s cultural traditions, they can’t simply write them off.

Though, I’m kinda afraid they might be the “monk” of Gw2’s Cantha. They’re there, and you can see and talk to them, but you can’t play as one. It wouldn’t make sense for the other races to suddenly gain to urge to study the ancient magically arts of Cantha’s humans. Unless they use the…. monk example from WoW, and they just seed a bunch of ritualist trainers around the world for no reason other than to train the players.

kitten …
Now I want to play as a Charr ritualist, and he/she got into the subject as a possible way to help combat the Foefire spirits, since necromancy seems to be a dead end. It all makes sense in my head. Nooooooooo!

Yeah if necromancers keep going down this path of destruction, I won’t mind starting a ritualist. At least we know those Spirit walls would still be useful. ^^

Well, there WERE charr ritualists in EOTN, although at least some of them were multiclassed with necromancer so they may have thought of it as just another branch of necromancy…

Personally, I think ritualist as an expansion of necromancer could work – Death Shroud is ritualistic-enough in my mind – but it would require quite a few new weapons and #6-10 skills.