Pretty sure I’m not the only one that feels we should fight Zhaitan for a las time. Would it make sense, though?
The best scenario would be having a “special path” on the Arah dungeon, and visiting Zhaitan’s Lair to find his corpse, to then discover it’s still “alive” and kill it with our own hands (and not stupid lasers).
I think the established story is fine as it is, ArenaNet just needs to elaborate further.
Yea, arena net definetly screwed up on the Zhaitan fight. I personally would love to see him come back. It’s definetly possible to see him come back since we never actaully went back to find his body. If this does happen, arena net really need to expand more on what he was actaully doing with the many interesting parts of the map. For example, why was he in the temple of Abaddon, what’s the correlation between them. Also, when you choose to find the missing squad in one of the story line missionsin Orr, you find out that zhaitan actually had hold of a Searing cauldron. Well, what if you didn’t choose that option? Shouldn’t there be a consequense for chosing that option? Shouldn’t Zhaitan or his generals use the cauldron in some way? There are so many little pieces that aren’t explained in the story that should be. So yes, bring Zhaitan back!
I think many of those little pieces are explained in the fact that Zhaitan eats Magical Items. He was most likely planning on swallowing that Cauldron when he got the chance, the same reason that he was attacking the temple of Abaddon, looking for magical trinkets to consume.
RedBlood, all of that’s explained already, actually. Zhaitan eats magic, so his minions were seeking magical artifacts – such as those in the sunken temple of Abaddon or the Searing Cauldron – so that they could be devoured and the magic fed to Zhaitan. That’s the entire point behind killing the Mouth of Zhaitan – to starve magic, prevent him from getting magical artifacts and in turn food.
And all paths are taken in the later storyline. It’s just that you weren’t there to do it. And if you note – if you do the Cauldron path, then the tanks get blown up. So some paths do have consequences if you don’t do them. They’re just immediate consequences.
But no, do not bring Zhaitan back. I do not want to face Zhaitan again because then it’ll just bring into question whether he’s truly dead that time, or whether Jormag and the others will be truly dead in the future. That’ll be lame as kitten.
If it must be, have him alive but dormant.
This is something they should consider for future expansions, By having the story mode a difficult but satisfying ending to a dragon, but then having explorer consist of the dragon returning in a “final form” in explorer.
They could have done something like make Zhatian return as just a beating heart/core that constructs flesh around it to form temporary combat forms, or something cool like that.
Zhaitan would probably come back eventually. Wasn’t it mentioned that the Elder Dragon was like forces of nature and not like mortals?
Might take several hundred years or so…
Zhaitan would probably come back eventually. Wasn’t it mentioned that the Elder Dragon was like forces of nature and not like mortals?
Might take several hundred years or so…
Maybe Zhaitian won’t come back, but the force he represents will eventually result in another dragon?
Could go the route Blizzard went with the Warcraft Old Gods – there were only five or six of them in lore for the longest time, but then they started getting killed off and Blizzard revealed that there are only five or six… on that planet.
So we might be looking at other Elder Dragons, out in the stars, who might get hungry and come looking for us.
Could go the route Blizzard went with the Warcraft Old Gods – there were only five or six of them in lore for the longest time, but then they started getting killed off and Blizzard revealed that there are only five or six… on that planet.
So we might be looking at other Elder Dragons, out in the stars, who might get hungry and come looking for us.
Please not the blizzard route, that ruin the story even from the books. There were only five old gods present on Azeroth at the time of the Titans. As much as I feel for the fight between zhaitan and our avatars, I wouldn’t want it brought back again. The reason be it will be like Onyxia from World of Warcraft the number of time we killed her and her been brought back just ruin everything. So I will say it again please no.
I’d like to see mr. Z back, but in a very different role. How ’bout this:
The Pact finds Zhaitan’s corpse, and take some of his remains (including his head) back to Fort Trinity for further study. Then Z’s disembodied head starts talking. Now, if we say that something had happened to Trahearne (gasp), and YOU are now the head of the Pact, you have to deal with this.
Quick note here: as personal story goes, I’m seeing the new chapters having more options. As in: Trahearne disappears, do you a) take over the Pact, b) search for him, or c) go off on your own.
So IF you chose to become leader of the Pact, then Zhaitan’s skull becomes your main enemy. Not because he’s some huge dragon that’s going to kill everybody, but because he’s slowly breaking the Pact apart with his whispers and promises, while driving you insane.
This way, we don’t do the whole dragon fight over again, and in many ways Big Z really is dead. BUT it lets his character become more fully developed, a character that he desperately needs.
The player won’t ever become the leader of the Pact. You can pretty much guarantee it. For the same reason we didn’t replace Abaddon in GW1. A nameless hero (how it’ll be told in the overarching non-personal lore of the game) cannot take a lead role.
And why would they take Z’s body to Fort Trinity? Futhermore, that’d mess with current lore (the Blue Orb prevents risen activity in Fort Trinity so long as its active) and it really breaks the suspension of disbelief that an Elder Dragon from time immemorial can not only talk without lungs, but knows modern language.
The Elder Dragon’s aren’t really meant to have character, so that scenario would also break that.
I have to agree with konig on this one that Anet wouldn’t allow our avatars to be the leader of the pact. I know most of you have you reason why you want Tranhearne be the bad guy but I don’t.
RedBlood, all of that’s explained already, actually. Zhaitan eats magic, so his minions were seeking magical artifacts – such as those in the sunken temple of Abaddon or the Searing Cauldron – so that they could be devoured and the magic fed to Zhaitan. That’s the entire point behind killing the Mouth of Zhaitan – to starve magic, prevent him from getting magical artifacts and in turn food.
And all paths are taken in the later storyline. It’s just that you weren’t there to do it. And if you note – if you do the Cauldron path, then the tanks get blown up. So some paths do have consequences if you don’t do them. They’re just immediate consequences.
But no, do not bring Zhaitan back. I do not want to face Zhaitan again because then it’ll just bring into question whether he’s truly dead that time, or whether Jormag and the others will be truly dead in the future. That’ll be lame as kitten.
If it must be, have him alive but dormant.
Why? The first time we didn’t see the corpse, but now we could have him, defeated in front of us, and 100% verifiable to be dead.
Don’t bring things to the extremes, making Zhaitan be still active wouldn’t mean the rest of the dragons resurrecting even after we cut them to pieces and burned them to ashes. Zhaitan’s case leaves room enough for other possibilities.
The player won’t ever become the leader of the Pact. You can pretty much guarantee it. For the same reason we didn’t replace Abaddon in GW1. A nameless hero (how it’ll be told in the overarching non-personal lore of the game) cannot take a lead role.
I understand that, but I hate it.
I would much rather they went the Bethesda/Fallout/Elder Scrolls route.
Give the PC/Hero a generic name, i.e. “The Lone Wanderer” or “Dragonborn”, etc.
The player won’t ever become the leader of the Pact. You can pretty much guarantee it. For the same reason we didn’t replace Abaddon in GW1. A nameless hero (how it’ll be told in the overarching non-personal lore of the game) cannot take a lead role.
I understand that, but I hate it.
I would much rather they went the Bethesda/Fallout/Elder Scrolls route.
Give the PC/Hero a generic name, i.e. “The Lone Wanderer” or “Dragonborn”, etc.
Well, I’m on the opposite side. I hated becoming the second in command, I would have preferred to be just the leader of some squad, not the second most important person.
The player won’t ever become the leader of the Pact. You can pretty much guarantee it. For the same reason we didn’t replace Abaddon in GW1. A nameless hero (how it’ll be told in the overarching non-personal lore of the game) cannot take a lead role.
I understand that, but I hate it.
I would much rather they went the Bethesda/Fallout/Elder Scrolls route.
Give the PC/Hero a generic name, i.e. “The Lone Wanderer” or “Dragonborn”, etc.
Well, I’m on the opposite side. I hated becoming the second in command, I would have preferred to be just the leader of some squad, not the second most important person.
I absolutely agree with you. This should be our story, and no one else’s.
What I was trying to say was that if they went with the “heroic” name, there wouldn’t be a need for an NPC stand-in. Instead of the Lore saying, “Trahearne killed Zhaitan” it could say, “The Hero of Shaemoor killed Zhaitain” (obviously, it would be something other than “Hero of Shaemoor”)
It’s the same way Bethesda handles lore. “The Dragonborn saved Skyrim” or “The Lone Wanderer defeated the Enclave” rather than, “Three-Dog killed the Enclave”.
If that makes sense.
It works for Elder Scrolls because it’s a single player game and because most of the games are separated by great time or distance. So by the time Skyrim rolls around, the Oblivion Crisis is practically a myth.
GW2 is an MMO and Zhaitan was just defeated. Everyone’s clamouring for them to have reactions in the world, but you want the NPCs to be going, “Good thing the MYSTERIOUS HERO saved us by defeating Zhaitan!”, “Did you hear who’s leading the Pact? That MYSTERIOUS HERO! He or she must be awesome!”, “That MYSTERIOUS HERO is a credit to whatever race and gender happens to apply! I don’t know anything about the MYSTERIOUS HERO, because why would I? He or she is only leading the Pact!”
And Spirits forbid they write a novel or short story taking place after Zhaitan’s death. Wouldn’t that be wonderful.
“Can’t we ask for help from the Pact’s leader?”
“No. They’re a mysterious figure with no name, race, gender, or birthplace.”
“Oh, a former member of the Whispers?”
“Maybe. Or the Priory or Vigil. It’s all very mysterious for no adequately explained reason at all.”
Why? The first time we didn’t see the corpse, but now we could have him, defeated in front of us, and 100% verifiable to be dead.
Don’t bring things to the extremes, making Zhaitan be still active wouldn’t mean the rest of the dragons resurrecting even after we cut them to pieces and burned them to ashes. Zhaitan’s case leaves room enough for other possibilities.
Because surviving being cut in half and bombarded with anti-Risen/anti-Elder Dragon cannons isn’t enough to kill an Elder Dragon, then how can we ever know that we kill the others? Because they’re not moving? Because we cut some of them off? Happened with Zhaitan. Even if they show us Jormag’s corpse, we would be able to theorize “oh, he’s just hibernating because Zhaitan was ‘killed’ and brought back too.”
If it’s an extreme, it’s an extreme that folks will go. I’ve seen this community long enough to tell, and when they go about claiming a newborn tree is an Elder Dragon, you hold no doubt that they would theorize something like that. After all, people have been theorizing that Abaddon would return in some way or form despite it being said in-game multiple times he’s dead until Jeff Grubb went and said “Abaddon’s dead and his story’s closed” (hell, even with that and knowing that, people still suspect he may return).
I understand that, but I hate it.
I would much rather they went the Bethesda/Fallout/Elder Scrolls route.
Give the PC/Hero a generic name, i.e. “The Lone Wanderer” or “Dragonborn”, etc.
Hero of Shaemoor/Advocate
Savant
Valiant
Legionnaire/Centurion
Slayer
Initiate
Recruit
Novice
Agent
Crusader
Explorer
Lightbringer
Warmaster
Magister
Commander
There’s a kitten ton of generic names – titles, actually. Commander is the latest one, and probably how the PC will be referred to in voice acting until they leave the second-in-command post in the Pact.
I absolutely agree with you. This should be our story, and no one else’s.
What I was trying to say was that if they went with the “heroic” name, there wouldn’t be a need for an NPC stand-in. Instead of the Lore saying, “Trahearne killed Zhaitan” it could say, “The Hero of Shaemoor killed Zhaitain” (obviously, it would be something other than “Hero of Shaemoor”)
It’s the same way Bethesda handles lore. “The Dragonborn saved Skyrim” or “The Lone Wanderer defeated the Enclave” rather than, “Three-Dog killed the Enclave”.
If that makes sense.
It’ll probably be “Destiny’s Edge and the Commander killed Zhaitan” or “The Pact, led by the Commander, killed Zhaitan” – Trahearne wasn’t there, and he openly regrets not being there in the second instance of The Source of Orr and the second instance of Victory of Death. I doubt they’ll say he killed Zhaitan. I’d be surprised if they don’t just go “The Pact did it” actually, since that’s how they handled Nightfall (Kormir with a group of Sunspears).
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
People often miss the fact that if we were the Marshal we would probably not have the freedom to run around Tyria on our own. The Marshal has a full time job running the pact, dealing with the logistics, the diplomacy and the planning. Trehearne gets shouldered with all the paper work while we get to lead from the front lines. Just think about how often Trehearne actually is involved in frontline combat after becoming the Marshal.
Being the Commander gives us freedom. It allows us to walk away from the pact for a time and do other stuff.
You seriously want to play the Marshal?
It works for Elder Scrolls because it’s a single player game and because most of the games are separated by great time or distance. So by the time Skyrim rolls around, the Oblivion Crisis is practically a myth.
GW2 is an MMO and Zhaitan was just defeated. Everyone’s clamouring for them to have reactions in the world, but you want the NPCs to be going, “Good thing the MYSTERIOUS HERO saved us by defeating Zhaitan!”, “Did you hear who’s leading the Pact? That MYSTERIOUS HERO! He or she must be awesome!”, “That MYSTERIOUS HERO is a credit to whatever race and gender happens to apply! I don’t know anything about the MYSTERIOUS HERO, because why would I? He or she is only leading the Pact!”
And Spirits forbid they write a novel or short story taking place after Zhaitan’s death. Wouldn’t that be wonderful.
“Can’t we ask for help from the Pact’s leader?”
“No. They’re a mysterious figure with no name, race, gender, or birthplace.”
“Oh, a former member of the Whispers?”
“Maybe. Or the Priory or Vigil. It’s all very mysterious for no adequately explained reason at all.”
I don’t think it should be the “Mysterious Hero”. That is way too impersonal, and you’re right, it doesn’t fit.
But the “Commander” which is pretty much what we’re all called anyway, would work just as well.
And, about Skyrim, you’re correct. However, Fallout: New Vegas talks about the Lone Wanderer, and that’s separated by a few years. Of course, that’s a nuclear apocalypse, so that’s different than a fantasy setting.
Since this is an MMO, we aren’t going to get a super personalized story, and most MMO writers do add NPC’s like Trahearne and Kormir simply because lore-wise, that’s the easiest. They just stick whatever the PC did to those NPC’s.
That way just makes it seem like we didn’t matter, that Trahearne would have defeated Zhaitan without our help. Obviously, that’s just my opinion, so take it or leave it.
That way just makes it seem like we didn’t matter, that Trahearne would have defeated Zhaitan without our help. Obviously, that’s just my opinion, so take it or leave it.
However the Commander of the Pact did matter and Trahearne wouldnt have defeated Zhaitan without our help. The very fact the Pact forms in the first place is because of the player character.
Its easy to overlook the importance of the Player Character in the story. Perhaps the problem was that Trahearne tended to be on the lips of alot of the NPCs. However, though Trahearne was very important to the story, like the player in Nightfall, it was the player character who actually made things happen and won the day.
That way just makes it seem like we didn’t matter, that Trahearne would have defeated Zhaitan without our help. Obviously, that’s just my opinion, so take it or leave it.
However the Commander of the Pact did matter and Trahearne wouldnt have defeated Zhaitan without our help. The very fact the Pact forms in the first place is because of the player character.
Its easy to overlook the importance of the Player Character in the story. Perhaps the problem was that Trahearne tended to be on the lips of alot of the NPCs. However, though Trahearne was very important to the story, like the player in Nightfall, it was the player character who actually made things happen and won the day.
Exactly. We were important, but lore-wise, we aren’t mentioned. It’s a tough road to tread when writing a story, especially for an MMO, so it’s understandable why they do it.
Anyway, I’ve realized that I’ve totally thrown us off topic here, and I apologize haha.
I don’t think it should be the “Mysterious Hero”. That is way too impersonal, and you’re right, it doesn’t fit.
[…]
Since this is an MMO, we aren’t going to get a super personalized story, and most MMO writers do add NPC’s like Trahearne and Kormir simply because lore-wise, that’s the easiest. They just stick whatever the PC did to those NPC’s.
That way just makes it seem like we didn’t matter, that Trahearne would have defeated Zhaitan without our help. Obviously, that’s just my opinion, so take it or leave it.
Mysterious Hero was obviously just an example and can be replaced by any type of title. Only a few weeks/months passed since Zhaitan’s death, yet the famed Commander of the Pact holds no name, no gender, no profession, and no race. Makes perfect sense.
Thus, they go with “the Pact did it” rather than “this person/<person’s title> did it.”
And Anet never sticks what the PC does onto a NPC – they stick it to a generic group of heroes. Thus far at least.
Exactly. We were important, but lore-wise, we aren’t mentioned. It’s a tough road to tread when writing a story, especially for an MMO, so it’s understandable why they do it.
….
But lore-wise, it’s not yet mentioned who killed Zhaitan. At all. You’re complaining that Anet did something they didn’t do (yet). And if they follow GW1’s case, it won’t get brought up except in personal instances where you’re still the hero for quite some time. Everywhere in GW1 it was shown as us, if the character had done it, except only a few times. It’s in GW2 where the PC of GW1 is kept mysterious (if mentioned).
Zhaitan is Dead. I mean its an undead dragon. But no we didnt see the last of it. The dragon may be weakened but will be back.
Technically, it controls and makes undead. But Zhaitan himself may not be undead (it’d have had to have died in the past to be an undead – and given the premise, an Elder Dragon never died in the past).
Eh, the Zhaitan fight was underwhelming, but I feel like going to fight Zhaitan again would be beating a dead horse IMO.
Eh, the Zhaitan fight was underwhelming, but I feel like going to fight Zhaitan again would be beating a dead horse IMO.
This is my biggest reason for not wanting to see him come back. As disappointing as the fight was, Id prefer to move on to other stories and hope Arenanet makes the next big final fight more epic.
You know what the fight against Zhaitan really should have been? A huge one time event about 6 months after launch (implementing lessons learned from Karka) with like 3000 players fighting him using the new culling technology (where you can still see all the characters). Now that would be epic.
No. No no no no no. Gods no.
One time events suck. Suuuuck. Suck. Because some of us have jobs. Lives. Families. Friends. Events that prevent us from being able to play a video game at any given time as a moment’s notice. Some of us who have things like that would still like to play the boss fight of that video game without being told, ‘Aw, you weren’t on last night? Your baby was throwing up? Sucks to be you! Ha ha! It was awesome.’
I’m with Elias. Plus, it’s 100000000000% unfair to everyone who buys the game after that one-time event.
“Oh, your whole personal story is setting you up to kill Zhaitan? Sorry, bro. We killed him last year. You never will.”
You can imagine the rage.
Eh, the Zhaitan fight was underwhelming, but I feel like going to fight Zhaitan again would be beating a dead horse IMO.
Lot of people disliked the fight against Zhaitan, but if we suppose he doesn’t die there, I think it wouldn’t be a bad fight. Instead, we could presume he survives, and we need to go fight him again, face to face, and finish him for real.
How could this work?
First, we would need a new mode. Call it “special mode”, “bonus mode” or “boss mode”. This mode would be added to each classic dungeon, and it would work as an special finale, flashback or whatever. This mode could be rewarded for completing all paths (to incentive running different ones).
In the case of The Ruined City of Arah, our goal would be to get down to Zhaitan’s Lair and find his corpse, to destroy whatever remains of him.
For example: We board an airship at the beginning of the dungeon, and it flies towards Zhaitan’s Lair. To make it interesting, we could have captured some minion (like an Eye of Zhaitan), and use it to bring us to Zhaitan. While aboard, it would rebel and we would need to control it, giving us something to do while the airship arrives.
So we get into Zhaitan’s Lair, and find lots of minions being attracted to him. Then he opens his eyes and we fight him with our own hands, and kill him. He eats magic, so he could “explode” or start expelling magic to show he’s definitively dead.
No. No no no no no. Gods no.
One time events suck. Suuuuck. Suck. Because some of us have jobs. Lives. Families. Friends. Events that prevent us from being able to play a video game at any given time as a moment’s notice. Some of us who have things like that would still like to play the boss fight of that video game without being told, ‘Aw, you weren’t on last night? Your baby was throwing up? Sucks to be you! Ha ha! It was awesome.’
Couldn’t agree more.
In my opinion, the Lost Shores event should have used the personal story system, and stay once the event was over, so we could replay the entire Lost Shores storyline later with other characters if we wanted so.
Or, mostly simply, if ANet decides the Zhaitan fight sucks that bad they can simply redo and replace the fight. Make it more interactive, more challenging, whatever. No need for Zhaitan to come back to life, no need for even a new dungeon. Just remove the old fight, plug in the new fight, and away you go.
That’s what I’m hoping Anet does. Completely redo that dungeon. Yes, the whole dungeon. Okay, not the whole dungeon, but most of it.
I just did it today and the alterations they made with Flame and Frost: Prelude makes the entire dungeon a laughing stock. Beforehand, the Mouth of Zhaitan was a pain, now he’s little harder than that Champion Bloated Creeper (which is only hard cuz he constantly heals if you don’t kill grubs fast enough). The dragon champion fights were once chaotic with you being flung every which way and there being veterans in the mix. Now? No vets, no flinging. We took each dragon down halfway or more each time they became attackable – almost all four cannons on a side were operating each time. That’s how pathetic the mobs were. And note: this was a half-guild half-pug group. And my armor was and is broken during the entire fight (all damaged going in, 2 pieces broke during). And the fight with Zhaitan? It was sad before, now its just pitiful.
They seriously need to redo the difficulty in the dungeon.
I hope Zhaitan would be back in a major world event.
That’s what I’m hoping Anet does. Completely redo that dungeon. Yes, the whole dungeon. Okay, not the whole dungeon, but most of it.
I just did it today and the alterations they made with Flame and Frost: Prelude makes the entire dungeon a laughing stock. Beforehand, the Mouth of Zhaitan was a pain, now he’s little harder than that Champion Bloated Creeper (which is only hard cuz he constantly heals if you don’t kill grubs fast enough). The dragon champion fights were once chaotic with you being flung every which way and there being veterans in the mix. Now? No vets, no flinging. We took each dragon down halfway or more each time they became attackable – almost all four cannons on a side were operating each time. That’s how pathetic the mobs were. And note: this was a half-guild half-pug group. And my armor was and is broken during the entire fight (all damaged going in, 2 pieces broke during). And the fight with Zhaitan? It was sad before, now its just pitiful.
They seriously need to redo the difficulty in the dungeon.
That’s one of the problems of story modes and making lore-wise strong characters appear there as bosses. It was a bad idea to make the strongest guys be the bosses of story mode, and in Arah’s case it’s even worse, because the story mode needs to be easy enough for people that just want to complete the personal story.
Also, it’s so sad story modes have so much more work behind them than explorable modes, but then they’re just a “play once, forget about it” experience. The Iron Forgeman, Kudu, Zhaitan, Gaheron Baelfire… their explorable mode counterparts are just pathetic compared to them, lore-wise and gameplay-potential-wise.
They need to fix it somehow, adding hard modes to story mode or whatever, but right now, it sucks.
Anet said from the get go that the explorable mode wasn’t meant to present more lore. It was meant for those who want more challenge so they just went and gave minimal narrative for them. That’s why the “choose one of these three options” dialogue always sounds so… bad. Not just in voice acting, but wording. Like it wasn’t reviewed to be good.
I love all these posts regarding the Zhaitan fight and why it wasn’t all “up close and personal.”
The dragon is literally bigger than the airship you were on during the fight. Think about that for a second. Do you honestly think your little sword or fireball is going to even get its attention, much less harm it? No, no they won’t.
Yes, the last fight felt a bit impersonal, but blowing the crap out of it with cannon fire was also the only logical way to kill something that big. Something that big that can FLY, mind you.
There are plenty of ways to adjust to that, Raynor. Zhaitan is an undead Elder Dragon – the airship’s cannon could have blasted him into small bits that then attacked the craft and have to be fought directly, sword against claw.
Or, given that Zhaitan is so big, he could have partially eaten the airship and we could attack right at his face. Stab him in the eyes. He seems to have a sort of hydra multi-head going on, so that would work pretty well. It’d be like the first fight in God of War.
Or he could’ve swallowed us and we fight our way to whatever serves him as a heart. That’d be fairly cool.
Just something other than him roaring at us from a tower while we shoot at him. Even him moving would have been an improvement. Give us all Charzookas instead of stationary cannons and then have him flying around.
I had an idea that perhaps before we officially start the fight against the next elder dragon, arena net would hold a major one time event (with rewards that aren’t ridiculously unfair) in which we purge Orr of zhaitans influence.
As we go through the straights of devastation, perils of malchors leap, and and finally arrive at the cursed shore in which case the gates of arah are truly open (as an explorable area).
We fight our way through zhaitans toughest forces and eventually arrive at his final resting place where we discover he has been reborn in the body of one of his champions.
That’s my idea but eh it’s somehing
The problem with that is Arenanet’s not likely to do another one time event, in the vein of Lost Shores. We still haven’t explored all of Orr, it wouldn’t be fair to the newer players to have them play the first part of the personal story in a purified Orr. Most likely the other parts of Orr (closer to Scavenger’s Causeway) will be our “Purified Orr.”
It’s not what everyone wants, but I think it’d be the most likely outcome and a fair one for both those who haven’t finished the personal story yet and those who have.
I’m with BunnytheSwordsman. Given how Wintersday went, it seems that ArenaNet learned their lesson with the Ancient Karka fiasco. The chances of them doing one-time events is unlikely.
This is even moreso if it changes old content, because as Bunny said, it won’t be fair to new players. Imagine that you haven’t heard about Guild Wars 2 yet, and you get it this coming weekend because you finally found out about it and got urged to try it out. Now, imagine, last month they held a one-time event where Zhaitan was rampaging across all three Orr zones, ending with a grand finale at Fort Trinity.
You never saw this. Now you go through the personal story with all the “Zhaitan must be taken down!” but he is dead, been dead for a month, and you will never ever get to fight him. The threat’s just… gone, except within your personal story.
You’d be kitten right?
Zhaitan was the elder dragon with perhaps the least powerful body himself. However, he was capable of reanimating a whole bloody continent, down to the last chicken.
Some of the minions in his army were barely coherent corpses.
What exactly did we do to him? Shoot off part of his tail, and burn him badly, at which point he let go of and fell down.
Lorewise, he shouldn’t even BE dead, there’s no way that killed him. So to reply to your question: can he survive that or return, very much yes.
Whether he will now or within centuries we can’t say but Zhaitan is not dead.
And if he is, then I’d like to know what the hell was in those cannons we fired at him. :P
What exactly did we do to him? Shoot off part of his tail, and burn him badly, at which point he let go of and fell down.
Lorewise, he shouldn’t even BE dead, there’s no way that killed him. So to reply to your question: can he survive that or return, very much yes.
Whether he will now or within centuries we can’t say but Zhaitan is not dead.
And if he is, then I’d like to know what the hell was in those cannons we fired at him. :P
It’s not noticable because it’s not part of the cinematic, but we “chop” off more of his body than just his tails.
There’s the laser which cuts off half of three of his tails – which includes two set of wings. Then the “grappling hooks” burn his large right wing, making it crippled, and after the cinematic if you watch him rather than fight the new mobs, you’ll see his right arm (that giant kitten claw) just fall off with stretching skin and ooze-like “blood” spewing forth (probably the one instance in the entire game where something graphically bleeds…).
He was holding onto that tower with one hand, and one wing crippled (his entire right half of his body was basically useless to him thanks to those electrified grappling hooks).
And then we pummeled him with the anti-undead/anti-Elder Dragon/anti-Elder Undead Dragon cannons (it’s never clear which anti it is, just that it’s specifically made to be useful against Zhaitan and his minions).
So during the fight we basically cut off a third of his body, made another third useless, and then barraged him with shiny golden anti-Zhaitan stuff.
He is the Elder Dragon of Undeath.
He makes a living of taking body parts of different beings and glueing them together.
Thinking that he couldn’t remake his own broken body (which is already composed of multiple dead dragons to begin with) is rather naive, wouldn’t you say?
I wonder where people keep getting this “dead” part – yeah, the concept art for Zhaitan’s (last design) body does show multiple dragons being made from the flesh, but his in-game model doesn’t and no where was it ever said those multiple dragons in the concept art were “dead” dragons.
It’s like people’s presumption that the Elder Dragons’ last rise was around 10,000 BE, or that the Giganticus Lupicus went extinct in 10,000 BE (approx.). It’s not actually the case. :/
Maybe from the “unDEATH” part in his title? It is not rocket science nor brain surgery, just a matter of putting two and two together. His in-game model clearly shows him being made up from the bodies of multiple dragons. It is like something out of a Resident Evil game. Or perhaps one of Grandfather Nurgle’s creations. Here’s a render:
Also take gander at this piece of concept art:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-tUuUA8jzDH8/UDZtLO62qyI/AAAAAAAAABQ/fjBkgTIygZ8/zhaitan_1920x1200.jpg
You can clearly see the heads of various smaller dragons making up his neck.
(edited by Oglaf.1074)
It’s still a rather huge assumption to say Zhaitan’s undead just because he’s the Elder Undeath Dragon. It’s be a more reasonable assumption if we knew Primordus was made of fire, or Kralkatorrik out of crystal, or Jormag out of ice. But this isn’t the case for them – Kralkatorrik and Jormag both bleed showing that they’re not crystal and ice respectively (although their blood turns into their respective element when drying).
And if you read my post, I said “yeah, the concept art for Zhaitan’s (last design) body does show multiple dragons being made from the flesh”, but I greatly disagree upon the notion that “His in-game model clearly shows him being made up from the bodies of multiple dragons.” – I’ve argued this in the past though, and don’t feel like repeating the same endless discussion. But to summarize my points: While he does have multiple heads, wings, and tails, these body parts are not only differing in number, but greatly separated from each other (especially the heads), and furthermore the skin is solidly and clearly that of a single being, unlike the concept art’s. And regardless of the skin’s state, for all we know it’s just that he looks like he’s made of many dragons, and not that he actually is.
But in this case, I was not disputing him being made of multiple dragons – as whether he is or isn’t is, imo, irrelevant to the case of him being alive or not. What I was disputing was that he’s made of dead dragons.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
It’s still a rather huge assumption to say Zhaitan’s undead just because he’s the Elder Undeath Dragon. It’s be a more reasonable assumption if we knew Primordus was made of fire, or Kralkatorrik out of crystal, or Jormag out of ice. But this isn’t the case for them – Kralkatorrik and Jormag both bleed showing that they’re not crystal and ice respectively (although their blood turns into their respective element when drying).
That also seems to be the case actually. Icebrood are not 100% corrupted ice, so they can very much bleed. Nor do I suspect that Jormag’s Claw is 100% corrupted ice through and through. So it seems reasonable to assume that Jormag would not be 100% corrupted ice neither, thus being able to bleed.
But to summarize my points: While he does have multiple heads, wings, and tails, these body parts are not only differing in number, but greatly separated from each other (especially the heads), and furthermore the skin is solidly and clearly that of a single being, unlike the concept art’s. And regardless of the skin’s state, for all we know it’s just that he looks like he’s made of many dragons, and not that he actually is.
1) Your point of his body parts differing in number (as well as being asymmetrical; one arm/claw is huge in comparison to the other. Its the one he clings to the “tower” with in the fight) seem to support the idea that he is indeed made up out of undead dragons. Any and all other dragons you encounter have the same number of limbs, in the same general shape, the traditional dragon shape.
2) Your “melded skin” argument also don’t hold water to me. He uses magic, not simply stitching the body parts together like a third rate Dr. Frankenstein. Of course you’re going to see melding like that going on. Plus, if Zhatain originally was the same “species” of dragon as the ones his body is composed of, naturally you wouldn’t see that big a difference.
But in this case, I was not disputing him being made of multiple dragons – as whether he is or isn’t is, imo, irrelevant to the case of him being alive or not. What I was disputing was that he’s made of dead dragons.
Of course we can’t 100% confirm it, but the evidence strongly points toward it being at least highly plausible. To me it looks like the head is all that is left of the original Zhaitan and the rest are a result of him “upgrading” himself throughout the ages. To me, personally, that concept makes him more deserving of the title of Elder Dragon of Undeath and a lot more fitting than him just being a " misshapen freak".
Also reminds me of a Lich in Dungeons and Dragons, the way he is more of a malevolent entity than a physical being.
(edited by Oglaf.1074)
“Orr was only a setback!”
That also seems to be the case actually. Icebrood are not 100% corrupted ice, so they can very much bleed. Nor do I suspect that Jormag’s Claw is 100% corrupted ice through and through. So it seems reasonable to assume that Jormag would not be 100% corrupted ice neither, thus being able to bleed.
Icebrood Colossus says hi.
You cannot take the mechanic of bleeding for lore – I mean, unless you can manage to make rock, crystal, ice, fire, lightning, or burning wood/metal bleed.
The icebrood are a slowly transforming group – if you read Edge of Destiny, you may remember the beginning where an icebrood assault on Hoelbrak occurs. They mention how arrows are only effective if the blood and inner body hasn’t yet frozen into pure ice – given enough time, they will, but not immediately so (unlike Branded).
1) Your point of his body parts differing in number (as well as being asymmetrical; one arm/claw is huge in comparison to the other. Its the one he clings to the “tower” with in the fight) seem to support the idea that he is indeed made up out of undead dragons. Any and all other dragons you encounter have the same number of limbs, in the same general shape, the traditional dragon shape.
2) Your “melded skin” argument also don’t hold water to me. He uses magic, not simply stitching the body parts together like a third rate Dr. Frankenstein. Of course you’re going to see melding like that going on. Plus, if Zhatain originally was the same “species” of dragon as the ones his body is composed of, naturally you wouldn’t see that big a difference.
1) All that supports is that he has multiple limbs of varying sizes. AKA, he’s an eldritch abomination – which he is.
Also, he has 2 giant kitten claws (and 2 smaller ones) – one large claw, his right one, falls off after he’s struck by those electrical grappling hook stuff that also turned his right wing red and burned preventing him from flying (during the cinematic after the laser).
2) What I meant by the skin was that it’s smooth (without dragon faces) and if you look closely, it has the appearance of just a very skinny, gray, and most importantly NOT rotting body.
Of course we can’t 100% confirm it, but the evidence strongly points toward it being at least highly plausible.
So why say as if it were fact? When there’s no evidence to the plausibly-made-out-of-dragons being “dead” and even the notion of him being made out of dragons is questionable?
BTW, I’d say that the head is the least original – the most original of Zhaitan’s true body would be the largest set of wings and claws.
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