Is it right to kill all dragons?

Is it right to kill all dragons?

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Posted by: kristof.7182

kristof.7182

Hello!
The Priory believe that we need to get more knowledge to destroy the dragons.
The Vigil believe that we need more people to kill the dragons.
But Orders of Whispers believe that we can’t kill the dragons and we need take them to the bed.
We killed Zhaitan so it looks like OoW were wrong. Or maybe not? Maybe “we can’t kill the dragons” was just a metaphor? Maybe someone will replace them (like champions of ED). When there’s too much magic, Dragons wake up and consume everything, reducing magic to low level. What will happen if we’ll kill all dragons? Who will reduce magic to low level? Is it dangerous to have too much magic in the world? Maybe this cycle is important for the balance and we shouldn’t end it?

And is it possible that the last dragon will be too powerful because he will be the last and he will consume much more magic than normal in cycle?

(edited by kristof.7182)

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

Well we don’t know if the cycle is natural or not, it seems to pre-dates any currently living race (there is indication that the cycle was going on before the dwarves and jotun and the rest). Second we don’t know if the amount of magic is finite or infinite. It’s possible that there is only so much magic and that even after full release the impact of which would not be too dangerous.
There isn’t much lore around the EDs unfortunately, so it’s all pretty much speculation.

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Posted by: Erukk.1408

Erukk.1408

We need more information to make an accurate statement, but we really don’t have a choice if we do or not. It’s either: we kill them, or they will kill us.

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Posted by: kristof.7182

kristof.7182

We need more information to make an accurate statement, but we really don’t have a choice if we do or not. It’s either: we kill them, or they will kill us.

Or we’ll find someone who can hide us.
Elder races (like Jotun) survived the cycle because Glint helped them stay hidden.

Races like Mursaat, Forgotten or Seer prefer to hide instead of kill the dragons. That’s strange.

(edited by kristof.7182)

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

While they were more powerful magically than we were, they seem to have relied pretty much exclusively on magic. Dwarven blast powder technology seems primitive enough in GW1 that it was probably not developed at the time of the last awakening.

While magic is a useful tool, it’s still a tool that the dragons can eat (when not treated by the Forgotten magic to protect against it, and it’s not clear how suitable that is for mass production). They had no race that could bring to the table what the Charr did in the present – powerful, mass-producible weapons that have little or no magic to them and thus provide little sustenance to the dragons should they fall in the hands of the enemy.

Consider the back-and-forth of the conflict in Orr, and that it is canon that the front lines were constantly shifting back and forth in that conflict. For the Pact, things like abandoned tanks, crashed airships, and the like might have some magic to them, but little enough that they probably took out more than Zhaitan could extract from them. Meanwhile, each lost piece of equipment was reasonably quickly replaced by the next version off the production line.

Consider if the war had instead been fought purely by magitech, but with different styles of magitech coming from four races… even if we assume that one quarter of that (all the Forgotten stuff) was resistant to the dragons, three-quarters of their lost equipment becomes high-grade dragon food… and was probably a lot harder to replace than modern charr equipment.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Erukk.1408

Erukk.1408

The elder races didn’t prefer to hide. They didn’t have a choice in the matter. The Seers were able to cut off the Elder Dragons’ food supply by sealing away most of the magic in the world, but the elder races were still hopelessly outmatched by them. If the Mursaat would have stayed, instead of leaving everyone S.O.L., things might have been different, but that is a big might though. It would have taken awhile for the EDs to starve themselves into hibernation, and if Glint didn’t hide the elder races, the EDs would have killed them.

And without another Bloodstone to starve them into hibernation, the EDs would be unchecked, and they would slowly corrupt all the lands of Tyria as they expand their territory. Sooner or later, whether we are completely hidden or not, we’d lose our ground to them. It would only be a matter of time then.

(edited by Erukk.1408)

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Posted by: kristof.7182

kristof.7182

Thank you for your posts. It’s so cool to speak with someone about lore.

I understand that elder races have no chance against ED.
But still I think that because of ED we still have magic in Tyria. Maybe magic it’s like a water? If there’s too much water in a glass, it’s starts to pour. And if magic is limited, after thousand years it may end because no one will pour water into a bottle.

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Posted by: pessimist.7294

pessimist.7294

Maybe the creators of the Elder Dragons made them to keep balance in Tyria? Everytime when they awake they wipe out all intelligent races but let the surface of the planet inhabitable. But what will happen if we kill all of the ED and their minions?

Since technology and even magical spells will advance with the time we will surely get to a point where we are able to destroy whole planets with a single spell or device. And from the past we know that the “intelligent” races tend to turn on each others once all common enemies have gone. Imagine 5 extremly advanced races fight each other with hightech nuclear, chemical, biological and magical weapons. The danger is that Tyria will become completely inhabitable for million of years once such a war breaks out (and it will break out). So we should let at least 1 ED alive so we can bash him into submission over and over again so we wont start killing each other.

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Posted by: Wanderer.3248

Wanderer.3248

Or maybe they’re like an algal bloom or a roach infestation.

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Posted by: Almoryk Kane.6085

Almoryk Kane.6085

Well the various Order theories kind of go out the window when they unite all together under the Pact. The Pact uses all resources to combat the dragons. Though yes its either them or us. The last time the dragons awoke was when they killed all the Giant Lupicans. And those guys are huge and powerful. You think an army of those would of done alright but guess their intelligence probably wasn’t that great.

Tyria is a big place and there is no doubt that there are probably more dragons that are still asleep. Even some that may stay asleep in case the current dragons fail. Though the races of Tyria have to fight. They can’t just be like “oh this is suppose to happen lets just give up.” These are decedents of great hero’s. Hero’s that fought the Murrasat and the Lich. Battled Titans. Shut down the greatest betrayer Cantha has ever known Tagachi Shahiro. And took down the god Abadon. While the elder dragons may be more powerful then that we have proven that they can be killed. There is hope for survival and if we win even at the coast of lives we come out of it wiser and learn the lessons of how to deal with future problems.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

The dragons leaving the surface of the planet inhabitable is questionable, actually, except in the loosest terms. Last time they were put to sleep prematurely, and even then we have indications that the gods, particularly Melandru, undertook substantial work to make Tyria truly fertile again.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

1. It’s them or us.
2. If this is some plan of nature, then nature shouldn’t have given us the intelligence that allow us to do something about it.

I believe, if something can be done, then nature doesn’t care wether we do it.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

I believe, if something can be done, then nature doesn’t care wether we do it.

I take that one step further:
If something can be done, then it is natural.

If we poison our planet to the point where it is uninhabitable, that’s still a natural occurrence. If an invasive species is brought to a new place and kills all the previous inhabitants, it’s a natural occurrence. If the biggest predator gets killed by the coordination of many tiny insects, it’s nature!

The only things that are unnatural are things that require the interaction of a supernatural being who essentially changes the rules of how the universe operates. Even then, it could be argued that such a being is also a part of nature and is thus still a natural occurrence.

Server: Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Belzebu.3912

Belzebu.3912

If someone knows what should be done it is likely to be the OoW, contrary to Vigil and Priory, they are in the “business” for a looong time.
Also, I don’t think we actually killed Zhaitan, just like the fight the players had in GW1 against Glint, we probably just defeated Zhaitan instead of killing it.

I personally don’t think that the ED can be actually killed, in my point of view kill an ED would be like killing an “earthquake” or a “tornado” you can prevent, deal with it, maybe even change it, but not kill it.

Charter Vanguard [CV] – HoD
Bardy Belzebuson – Ranger Sir Belzebu – Herald
(and the other 8 elite specs maxed too)

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

Anyone who can kill all the dragons can then sort out any problems in the magic world themselves. The Charr certainly want to control their own destiny and not rely on mystical mega beings to solve their problems. I’m guessing the Asura think the same. The Norns, Humans, and Sylvari will just call upon their magical patrons for help as usual and it’ll seem a far better choice than falling into dragon corruption.

In other words, I don’t need a sheep to keep my grass down.

(edited by Stooperdale.3560)

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

I believe, if something can be done, then nature doesn’t care wether we do it.

I take that one step further:
If something can be done, then it is natural.

If we poison our planet to the point where it is uninhabitable, that’s still a natural occurrence. If an invasive species is brought to a new place and kills all the previous inhabitants, it’s a natural occurrence. If the biggest predator gets killed by the coordination of many tiny insects, it’s nature!

The only things that are unnatural are things that require the interaction of a supernatural being who essentially changes the rules of how the universe operates. Even then, it could be argued that such a being is also a part of nature and is thus still a natural occurrence.

On the other hand, and I suspect that this is deliberate on your part, you’ve listed a lot of things that are ‘natural’ that are nevertheless undesirable. Just because something is natural doesn’t mean that you necessarily want it to happen, and sapient beings have the intelligence and capability (collectively, at least) to make these choices.

In this case, though, the dragons represent a threat approaching the concept of the “Godzilla moment”. Destroying the dragons may create a magical build-up that could harm the world later on… but if not resisted the dragons are going to topple civilisation now. If destroying the dragons results in later problems… that’s a bridge we can cross when we get to it.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

Is it right to kill all dragons?

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Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

On the other hand, and I suspect that this is deliberate on your part, you’ve listed a lot of things that are ‘natural’ that are nevertheless undesirable. Just because something is natural doesn’t mean that you necessarily want it to happen, and sapient beings have the intelligence and capability (collectively, at least) to make these choices.

In this case, though, the dragons represent a threat approaching the concept of the “Godzilla moment”. Destroying the dragons may create a magical build-up that could harm the world later on… but if not resisted the dragons are going to topple civilisation now. If destroying the dragons results in later problems… that’s a bridge we can cross when we get to it.

You are correct, I did intentionally list things that were both natural and undesirable, primarily because people love to label things they don’t like as “unnatural”.

Server: Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

I believe, if something can be done, then nature doesn’t care wether we do it.

I take that one step further:
If something can be done, then it is natural.

If we poison our planet to the point where it is uninhabitable, that’s still a natural occurrence. If an invasive species is brought to a new place and kills all the previous inhabitants, it’s a natural occurrence. If the biggest predator gets killed by the coordination of many tiny insects, it’s nature!

The only things that are unnatural are things that require the interaction of a supernatural being who essentially changes the rules of how the universe operates. Even then, it could be argued that such a being is also a part of nature and is thus still a natural occurrence.

On the other hand, and I suspect that this is deliberate on your part, you’ve listed a lot of things that are ‘natural’ that are nevertheless undesirable. Just because something is natural doesn’t mean that you necessarily want it to happen, and sapient beings have the intelligence and capability (collectively, at least) to make these choices.

In this case, though, the dragons represent a threat approaching the concept of the “Godzilla moment”. Destroying the dragons may create a magical build-up that could harm the world later on… but if not resisted the dragons are going to topple civilisation now. If destroying the dragons results in later problems… that’s a bridge we can cross when we get to it.

That’s why we said it’s not a problem if we can stop the dragons. If that is not supposed to happen, we would be unable to do it.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors