Guild Wars 2

If it can create a being so incredibly intelligent that makes asura humble (and I used asura and humble together), who knows what it is capable of?

Before that I though the Pale Tree was following human being’s patterns to mold her children (while not confirmed, I though it may have to do with Ronan’s family buried close to it, though we don’t know then why Mallyck looks similar to known sylvari), and that’s why they were human bodies made up with plant components (and that’s why for example they have genitalia even if they don’t need it to reproduce).

But after Scarlet… there is no way a human would be as intelligent as her (this has a lot to do with the “sue-ism” on her “can do anything” character but like it or not, as she is canon, it means that’s where the bar is oficially set now for every possible new sylvari).

Could new generations of sylvari born with the same level of intelligence, could they start borning stronger and bigger than any known race too? Might this be related to the dream and as they get to know new races, the tree has new models to take and that’s why Scarlet was so intelligent, meaning that we could start seeing mutations of the ordinary sylvari?

We had pretty much set what we though the potential of a sylvari could be, but because Scarlet exists, she breaks the mold and now technically, if a writter wants, he can create super powerful sylvaris of all kinds as we already have a “can do anything” kind of super intelligent sylvari (this is one of the principal problems with Scarlet, she is THE MOST intelligent individual documented so far, on a race that isn’t even 30 years old, and faaaaaar more intelligent than any other sylvari which implies some form of anomally or mutation).

I’m an X-Men fan and what I’m about to say feels really wrong but… is it safe for Tyria to have that tree out there with the potential of creating those super beings? I know a lot of sylvari chose to be good, though many of them were teached before being born specific rules about the world (though it is possible that simply by discovering the world, they might be generally good like other races, and there is Mallyck’s case too), but currently we have a 100% of “super sylvari” going mad and creating chaos and destruction. Granted this is mostly because of that experiment, but she was very rebellious in the first place, even working with the Inquest.

In some way, if Sylvari are meant to defeat dragons, it makes sense that they keep evolving and becoming stronger and capable of more things (though the evolutionary jump Scarlet took is way too big)… but the first super evolved one was a disaster, and we don’t know what following super sylvari would do. Or worse, imagine if the Nightmare spreads further and we start having super sylvari fully commited to the evil side… if an anarchic one was capable of so much destruction imagine what an army of super evil ones would do.

Without Scarlet those questions wouldn’t exist. Even with her they could simply be ignored and the writter might imply this is a once and only once anomaly with no further explanations (which may be the case), but the thing is, if she is canon, that’s where the bar is set for any Sylvari even if this isn’t ever explored.

Honestly I think they should’ve though the consequences of creating Scarlet as canon. Or at least with giving her that background. There could be other hundred of ways for her to end up seeing how the universe worked and going mad and starting her anarchic plan, but instead she was created as the most intelligent being on the whole planet, capable of things Asura would need 3 lifetimes in a very reduced amount of time and asimilating knowledge from most cultures.

If she exists, more can. And with a race so young this could be just the tip of the evolutionary iceberg.

The biggest problem is that this is a playable race, but if we start getting super evolved sylvari, then our playable characters are “class b” from their own race, and if those super evolved ones start being a big problem, we might end up needing to attack the pale tree, which migh be genocide against a playable race.

All this wouldn’t be a problem if Scarlet simply had “X and Y very important feats but completly coherent and that doesn’t make her the most intelligent creature on the planet in ways that put to shame the asura colleges” that one way or another conducts her to the same “I saw how reallity works and too much info makes me go mad” result.

Burn the tree? Y/N

Hm, interesting question.

Unfortunately, that’s sort of the sylvari home and the Tree is a central part to their way of life. I think it would take a herculean effort to rewrite the world without the Tree to make sure they come into being, and take part in their Personal Story.

On the other hand, maybe if the sylvari are gone, we can turn our attention to stamping out the asura next.

Decisions decisions.

I, for one, welcome our new Leafy Demigod Queen.

Zaxares.5419:

I, for one, welcome our new Leafy Demigod Queen.

If it’s Melandru, it can stay. If it’s not, go back to Maguuma. Or maybe just put the charr on it. Tell them the Pale Tree is pretending to be a goddess. I’m sure they can handle it just fine from there

It actually was confirmed by Ree Soesbee during the sylvari were made to, physically, mimic humans in lore. Reason unspecified, but supposedly the Pale Tree controls their humanoid appearance.

Now, to play devil’s advocate for a minute…

Technically, Ceara wasn’t born with a lot of knowledge. No sylvari truly is. Ceara was born with high IQ. Which, IMO, is no different than one human born with a low IQ, and another with high IQ. Ceara’s a fast learner who awoke with knowledge of how interlocking systems work (and seemingly, that’s it).

How that got her to advance so well in blacksmithery, sniping, golemite making (and how doing something an asuran toddler can do impressed the Arcane Council), advancing through three asuran colleges, or alche- okay, the alchemy makes sense, possibly the golemite making. But the rest don’t make sense with her.

But (losing devil’s advocasy), an army of super plant soldiers? Huh, interesting idea.

As Konig said, one genius sylvari doesn’t necessarily mean they all are.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Technically, Ceara wasn’t born with a lot of knowledge. No sylvari truly is. Ceara was born with high IQ. Which, IMO, is no different than one human born with a low IQ, and another with high IQ. Ceara’s a fast learner who awoke with knowledge of how interlocking systems work (and seemingly, that’s it).

No, she didn’t born with knowledge, but her IQ is simply the most outstanding one we’ve ever seen (at least that I can remember), and stomps any other IQ feats by comparison just by completing all asura colleges, each one in such a ridiculously low amount of time.

As I said, it would’ve been fine if she had this thing for tech and all, and went through the madness path without breaking every existing mold, just showing excellent skills at her thing, but the way they wrote her as a “can do anything” character… now the door is open for anything coming out from that tree :S

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But (losing devil’s advocasy), an army of super plant soldiers? Huh, interesting idea.

If they can evolve this fast, it could be a very frightening idea depending on what path they would take (and our current “mutated” sylvari went horribly wrong).

Truth is, if a potential super army were built for good, it would be great in the fight against the dragons, but as our playable characters aren’t super evolved sylvari, it would mean we play the “weaker members” of the race when we control them.

Dustfinger.9510:

As Konig said, one genius sylvari doesn’t necessarily mean they all are.

I didn’t say they all are, I said this raises the bar and now there is potential for that and more because Scarlet is canon and she is the most outstanding IQ we’ve ever seen, making an unprecedent evolutionary leap from her own race (this is closer to a mutation than simply high IQ if you consider how big it is and her feats) that puts her even far ahead of the most intelligent asuras.

I still don’t agree that Scarlet has an absurd high IQ. She certainly doesn’t act the part and so far she has fallen for incredibly predictable traps (the queen being an illusion for one).

What she has is, as said, the inept ability to see mechanics and processes. All of her ‘studies’ involved processes and mechanics in one way or another.
General engineering, metal casting, fire arms and demolitions, poisons and then the Asuran colleges, which for all we know let her pick a choice of study which complemented her natural ability.

So does that make her incredibly smart or just very crafty? Then when she witnessed ‘the Eternal Alchemy’, her insight just got conveniently extended to all of reality.

Evans.6347:

I still don’t agree that Scarlet has an absurd high IQ. She certainly doesn’t act the part and so far she has fallen for incredibly predictable traps (the queen being an illusion for one).

What she has is, as said, the inept ability to see mechanics and processes. All of her ‘studies’ involved processes and mechanics in one way or another.
General engineering, metal casting, fire arms and demolitions, poisons and then the Asuran colleges, which for all we know let her pick a choice of study which complemented her natural ability.

And yet no asura ever has been able to such a feat. If they let her pick a choice of study, then why no other asura has done it if you can go for what your talents work the best for? Are you telling me no asura has dreamt of the bragging rights that completing all colleges suppose?

She has either surpassed all her masters or left them begging for her to stay so they could pass all their knowledge to such an extraordinary student.

That current events make her look stupid is about the writing (a huge lot of people predicted Scarlet would attack and the queen would be an illusion, it isn’t like the scene itself was anything complex and deep), but even if the character protrait isn’t as intelligent, the background they gave to her makes her so outsdandingly intelligent.

Lokheit.7943:

I didn’t say they all are, I said this raises the bar and now there is potential for that and more because Scarlet is canon and she is the most outstanding IQ we’ve ever seen, making an unprecedent evolutionary leap from her own race (this is closer to a mutation than simply high IQ if you consider how big it is and her feats) that puts her even far ahead of the most intelligent asuras.

the other possibility is that she is just an anomaly like when RL humans kids graduate college. She may just be the Bobby Fisher of the sylvari.

Dustfinger.9510:

Lokheit.7943:

I didn’t say they all are, I said this raises the bar and now there is potential for that and more because Scarlet is canon and she is the most outstanding IQ we’ve ever seen, making an unprecedent evolutionary leap from her own race (this is closer to a mutation than simply high IQ if you consider how big it is and her feats) that puts her even far ahead of the most intelligent asuras.

the other possibility is that she is just an anomaly like when RL humans kids graduate college. She may just be the Bobby Fisher of the sylvari.

Why couldn’t she be the Rainman of sylvari instead?

I said this before, it’s not in the interest of the Asura to graduate from several Colleges. The Colleges are the stepping stone to making their own discoveries and theories. Most Asura stay affiliated with one College simply to use their resources. Furthermore, each College is convinced that it is the best and the others are amateurs. The Asura simply won’t waste their time on it, but Scarlet did.

Also, they accepted Scarlet in several College’s purely out of interest and probably to prove that the previous Colleges are subpar because she would never graduate from their College.

With how narcissistic the asura are, it might be frowned upon to go to each college like Scarlet did, especially at an adult age. Their whole race seems to be promoting oneself above others, by one’s own accomplishments. To go into a different college, especially at an adult age, you would be saying to the other asura that you couldn’t learn the material yourself, and you need the help of the professors at the college to teach you. Something that the asura wouldn’t look kindly on, since you’re basically labeling yourself “stupid”.

Now back to the main topic…

As Konig pointed out, the traits of a single individual doesn’t reflect the race as a whole. The Sylvari might be born of the Pale Tree, but she doesn’t really control what traits and knowledge they are born with. That is all seemingly random from the Dream. Given what the short story said, that may or may not be true though.

Would I burn it? Probably not. The Sylvari are too useful of allies at the moment. Not to mention, if plans were underway to burn the Pale Tree, it would force all Sylvari to defend it, Nightmare Court included. We also have no idea how powerful the Pale Tree actually is. It’s a huge magically tree. The tree might not be able to do much, but id rather not get on the wrong side of its avatar though. She remind me too much of a Queen of the Fae to my liking.

And kitten ing off magical trees in a fantasy setting? Never a good idea…

Evans brings up a good point. They asura have a cultural bias towards one college or another. They are convinced that one philosophy is the foundation that the other 2 philosophies rest on, in the Eternal Alchemy. Scarlet wasn’t raised in asuran culture so she had no such disadvantage of prejudice against any school of thought.

So while Scarlet is indeed exceptional, we really have no basis to say that she is very far above the most intelligent asura. In fact, the ingame story line has an asura genius that admits she is smarter than him, but he remains optomistically competitive. That sounds closer to a rivalry than one genius being too far beyond the other.

So, I wouldn’t take the existence of Scarlet as the probability that the sylvari are becoming super-sylvari. She sounds more like the classic comic book super genius turned villain.

As previous posters have said, don’t try to take this all too seriously. Comic book villains frequently tend to turn up from nowhere with superpowers gained after a freak accident, or as incredible mad scientists ignored by society who conquer the world with ridiculous inventions. Hopefully Scarlet will get a better back story but for now poor writing seems more likely than Sylvari supremity.

Even if you do look upon Scarlet as an example of a threatening species, other magical individuals have destroyed continents, raised massive undead armies, etc, and their races have not been wiped out either.

Lokheit.7943:

No, she didn’t born with knowledge, but her IQ is simply the most outstanding one we’ve ever seen (at least that I can remember), and stomps any other IQ feats by comparison just by completing all asura colleges, each one in such a ridiculously low amount of time.

Most outstanding sylvari? I can top Scarlet.

The PC.

Might not be the brightest match in the box, but she doesn’t set fire to the other matches and still succeeds at just about everything but one or two things.

Lokheit.7943:

If they can evolve this fast, it could be a very frightening idea depending on what path they would take (and our current “mutated” sylvari went horribly wrong).

There is one major thing to consider here:

How old is Ceara? I don’t think we’re ever told. Given her history with Teyo, she’s older than the beginning of GW2’s plot. Given her prior history of spending a winter with Beigarth and two years with Asagi, then went through Dynamics and Statics in “less than a year” each, we can probably place her at being 4 years old before entering Synergetics. She then spent more time in Synergetics, and some time with the Inquest. Placing her to be at least 5 or 6. Slap on the “several months” before training under hylek, the unstated amount of time with the hylek, and then the “months of painstaking preparation” for Omadd’s experiment that made Ceara go mad with knowledge, we can place Scarlet at being about 7 years before going bat-kitten Joker. The question is: when did that take place? Probably around the time of GW2’s early personal story, IMO.

Which means that the sylvari PC – the super-powered “killed a dragon and completed two Firstborn’s Wyld Hunts for them” sylvari – who’s just as much if not more of a super soldier sylvari than Scarlet, was born after Scarlet either way.

Fuel for your theory.

But as a counter:

We have Trahearne. And Caithe. And Faolain. Each seem infallible in their own rights – except for one or two things (being emo, being anti-social, being obsessive; respectively). Without prior evoultionary traits from older sylvari, Trahearne has gained an immense knowledge and understanding of Necromancy, Risen, and Orrian lore – as well as quickly figuring out how to best lead a disgruntled army. Caithe had quickly learn the best way to kill – to seek out weak points – and quickly learned how for each kind of creature. Faolain supposedly quickly learned how to manipulate people, to turn them into whom they aren’t.

Evans.6347:

Also, they accepted Scarlet in several College’s purely out of interest and probably to prove that the previous Colleges are subpar because she would never graduate from their College.

That’s… actually believable.

And if that’s the case, perhaps the only believable explanation there truly is without some sort of ulterior motive towards Ceara involved, they really should have explained such.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Evans.6347:

Also, they accepted Scarlet in several College’s purely out of interest and probably to prove that the previous Colleges are subpar because she would never graduate from their College.

That’s… actually believable.

And if that’s the case, perhaps the only believable explanation there truly is without some sort of ulterior motive towards Ceara involved, they really should have explained such.

Well you know . . . asura do not explain themselves to bookah. Or lesser asura (which is everyone else).

When you accept the entire race is pretty much a much more petty version of Sheldon Cooper, it gets real easy real fast to believe they’re the dumbest smart people on Tyria.

Ceara also spent eight years in the Grove before striking out, so she has to be at least fifteen.

Scarlet feels like a player character in terms of abilities and what she can learn. And following the mentality of some players in game I would say the same the same moral compass.

“The Happening” is coming.

ill pass it off as a abnormal sylvary with insanely high caperbilty to learn stuff.
look at humans trough history we have people haveing learend 13 langues at the age of 13, people going to the finest universitys we have at a very early age and ending them before normal people of same age even begins on uni. and to this day i see humans that cant do simple math or other simple stuff you learn in school.

and could it not be that all she does is make the “shell” a sylvary enters after the dream?

The hive mind of the pale tree makes it possible. When silvary are born they are born with knowledge of all previous generations. however, they don’t have the experience so it makes them do stupid things. Almost alway comic relief in first 2 books at least.

IMO, Sylvari is a race very capable of learning, but on the other hand, they will never be as wise as for example the human, Durmand.

Most of them seem to maintan the mental-state of a 2 years old with the wasted IQ of an asura.

Gandarel.5091:

IMO, Sylvari is a race very capable of learning, but on the other hand, they will never be as wise as for example the human, Durmand.

Most of them seem to maintan the mental-state of a 2 years old with the wasted IQ of an asura.

I’d say their mental maturity is often not there yet (the Firstborn an example of ones who are more mature). A lot of them are really young, they just don’t look like it.

Also, I don’t think many humans can be as wise as Durmand was. Or Prince Mehti.