Guild Wars 2

So I’ve read the wikis on both joko and Elona but am still craving more info on both of them…where did joko originally come from? Is the order of whispers looking for ways to kill him? Is their dissent in Elona? What is/was Elona like before and after jokos take over? How many living humans/creatures are still around in Elona with joko making so many into his undead army? Is there a possibility of Asura or sylvari to be in Elona too? Any info on these would be great!

Don’t know. Don’t know. Hinted to be a rebellion of some sort. Guild Wars: Nightfall is the best place to learn about Elona before Joko’s takeover, and the Nightfall Manuscripts (player manual) is still available on the GW1 website. Don’t know. No reason for either of those races to be there, but again, don’t know.

I personally have some speculation about Joko’s origins, if you would like to hear them, but they’re just that: speculation.

Thanks for the input an sorry for so many hard questions! And sure any speculation and opinions are more than welcome and up for all to debate so please go ahead

1. We dont know where he came from thought he appears to have been originally human.

2. I imagine the order would love to know how to kill him. They used to be responsable for keeping an eye on where he was sealed away. Infact originally I thought the story was that the Order of Whispers was set up because they cound figure out how to kill Joko so Ossa set up the Order to keep an eye on his prison. I think thats not actually the case any more.

3. We dont know really whats going on in Elona but I wouldn’t be suprised to find pockets of desent and rebels on the fringes of Joko’s domain. There may even be a few lone Sunspears hidden away in far corners. I wouldnt be suprised if if we go to Elona, to help revive the Sunspears as a faction.

4. Describing what Elona was like before Joko took over would take quite alot of time. Id suggest looking at the GW1 wiki entries on Elona for a sample of that.

5. Joko, at least in GW1, seems content to have living subjects. He was very willing to kill and raise any who resisted but I think he was more interested in being an undead emperor. I suspect there are still plenty of living people under Joko’s rule. Infact Joko probably has quite a number of living servants and agents too.

6. Without knowing the true origin story of the Pale Tree and its species, its hard to guess where we will find sylvari. Its unlikely that any of the Pale Tree’s children have been there though.

Likewise we cant be 100% sure with the Asura though they seem more unlikely. For the Asura to be there they would either have had to move their after coming to the surface or would have had to come to the surface at in that area without establishing contact with the ones at Rata Sum since we certianly have nothing to indicate that the Asura know of others of their race in other parts of the world.

Solid answers to your questions are hard since in many cases we can only make educated speculation.

That’s fine just any info on these help, I find Elona much more interesting than the over obssessession everyone has with Cantha…and thank you for your answers…my opinion with how gw2 is that Elona has more options because of possibilities of a pale tree around there to link sylvari, we don’t know exactly where all charr land is and some
Could be close to Elona…a desperate Asura faction possibly from one of the farther 6 surviving underground cities could have come up around there, obviously the humans there, elonan centaurs and some other minor species including skritt coming up with Asura, norn not really sure on besides maybe a small hunting group that could be out looking for an exotic hunt? My speculation on how it could be expanded

Don’t forget about Asuran gate beneath Camadan City
For Palawa We know only that he used to gather undead armies on the Desolation, and atacked south.
if it comes to living – yes I’m sure that there are many living survivors – according to some offical texts about “what was next” he mades some kind of own empire of living and undead.

and actually after defeating Zhaitan we should be able to sail to Elona – or at least Istan :P – If Yoko Fleet would let us there :P
actually Yoko’s Fleet is that thing that at least for me is reason why Cantha as first expansion would not be possible – Istan and undead fleet of Palawa Yoko are on the way – so first we need to netralise them – and that would mean military expadition to Elona – after releasing elona from Yoko’s tyranny and reinstitute Sunspear Order whole situation would evolve into “two side atack on Kralkatorrik”

We do know that the Order of Whispers is somehow still in contact with Elona, and is assisting those who are fighting Joko there. That shows that there is opposition to Joko in Elona, although it’s not clear what precise form that takes.

From what I understand, Joko didn’t kill the living, he subjugate them. Vabbi surrendered almost immediately to save their hides, and after Kourna fell Istan surrendered. I guess Joko sees the value of the living.

The Sunspears are completely disbanded, while some still cling to the broken order, most either died or became a servant to Joko, both living and dead. There will still definitely be some form of resistance against Joko though. If the people of Elona stood against Varesh Ossa’s reign then they will sure stand against Joko.

It’s Zhaitan’s fleet which is blocking Tyria from Cantha, geographically. Joko’s fleet doesn’t reach far enough to block both Elona and Tyria, I think/hope.

actually when looking on complete map Istan isle is just in the center of the way from tyria to cantha – so yes yoko’s fleet is also obstruction – If You want to avoid them You would have to sail around keeping long distance from it.
Zhaitan fleet is no more problem – as we defeated him his fleet will die – same with his land army (from lore perspective)

I hope that we will recreate Sunspear Order and definitelly tke a rid of Palawa

anyway as I though how Elona would be “released” from Yoko’s tyranny I realised that It would have been done perfectly without need of expansion – just through living world. with long-long progress to it:
Firstly that would be some “two-week” preparation of fleet,
Then the fleet would sail to the Istan Isle and land in the nothern part of Jarrin, – and within next two week it would be many events with objective would be fortify our new position on the Island. in next patch we could for example recapture Sunspear Great Hall, and the send the word to the whole world that Sunspear’s are back again (and that New order never fight alone) and so on within next patches, we could recapture next parts of the Island and fortify Pact positions on parts already released from Yoko’s Tyranny.
af course Island wasn’t that small and making it all through “two-weeks-patches” would take much time, but after retaking it we can have some options:
1. We can invade Gandara the moon Fortress (I doubt If Palawa Yoko have destroyed it – It was a great startegic point anyway) and slowly start retaking rest of Elona:
or eventually we can use just opened path to send some scouts to cantha to check how it works there

What’s this I hear about Yoko controlling undead? Oh, it’s just Palawa Joko. I thought John Lennon was quite literally going to roll over in his grave.

Scouting the desolation in GW1 clearly shows the ruins of previous civilizations. Given that the desolation was created when Abaddon was cast out, and this is the region in which Joko hails/rules froms, I am willing to bet that the creation of Joko as a sort lich king and the creation of the desolation are interconnected.

Perhaps Joko ruled over a kingdom that was destroyed during the fighting between the gods and he was imbued with some sort of godly magic side-effect. Purely speculation of course, but given that Vizier Khilbron was turned into a lich under similar circumstances, it seems possible.

slyfox, i never thoight of that, but i never gave that much thought of where he came from. But that could very well be it.
maybe another reason to vote Evon:P

Except Joko’s reign would have to have been much later if I remember correctly. In life, he and Mad King Thorn were rivals, and Thorn’s reign was roughly 800 years after the exodus.

Actually, Thorn’s emissary describes Joko as an “up-and-coming king with delusions of grandeur.” Given Thorn’s outstanding ego, that could mean anything from Palawa was just crowned to Palawa had ruled for a thousand years and was looking now to expand.

The only dates we have in relation to Palawa are his invasion and subsequent fall in Elona, and more interestingly, the erection of his Bone Palace in 757 AE, over a hundred years before hand. Since that was implied to consume considerable manpower, it stands to reason that he had conquered the other kingdoms in the Desolation by then and could therefor divert the resources.

Seeing as there were human kingdoms in the Desolation, it is evident that it only slowly became inhospitable to human life. We don’t have much to work with there, but we know that Morah was abandoned, “succumbing to the spread of the desert”, two hundred years after it was founded to watch over the Mouth of Torment. Assuming that the desert and, possibly later, sulfur spread from the crater (which seems to be the case), then that means it took at least two hundred years to spread to the areas just beyond the crater’s rim.

Now then, moving into theorycraft. There is some, obscure, evidence that points towards some activity by Abaddon or his agents around 450 AE. As it is implied that simple knowledge of Abaddon and Nightfall can bring about the later, I believe this activity was a failed attempt to free the former. I further suspect that Palawa Joko was around during this time, due to his apparent knowledge of Abaddon, the Mouth of Torment, and the Margonites, and indeed may have played a role in the effort’s failure, given his openly antagonistic stance towards all of the above.

SlyFoxSays.5342:

Scouting the desolation in GW1 clearly shows the ruins of previous civilizations. Given that the desolation was created when Abaddon was cast out, and this is the region in which Joko hails/rules froms, I am willing to bet that the creation of Joko as a sort lich king and the creation of the desolation are interconnected. Though there were also the ruins of some Shattered Dynasty “kingdoms” such as the Remains of Sahlahja, as well as ruins from when Turai Ossa went on his pilgrimage into the Crystal Desert, such as Lannur.

Perhaps Joko ruled over a kingdom that was destroyed during the fighting between the gods and he was imbued with some sort of godly magic side-effect. Purely speculation of course, but given that Vizier Khilbron was turned into a lich under similar circumstances, it seems possible.

Those ruins were built by the Primeval Kings (some by the Forgotten though), who’s reign went as far north as the Tomb of the Primeval Kings.

Currently nothing links Joko to the Primeval Kings, especially since Joko is said to have been an “up and coming prince” when Oswald Thorn was alive 500 years prior to GW2. Meaning that, most likely, the time in which Joko appeared as a lich is shortly after his life as a mortal.

The only (known) civilization around in the Crystal Sea area prior to the Exodus were the Margonites and the Forgotten – the latter were not humans, the former did not build those ruins as they were a sea-faring people.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

There is some, obscure, evidence that points towards some activity by Abaddon or his agents around 450 AE.

Are you referring to the Scarab Plague? Because 1) nothing really hints at Abaddon’s influence there and 2) that’s the only thing of note around that timeframe.

Actually, there are hints- not much more, but solid enough to build theories off of.

In the Nightfall manuscripts, it is stated that “many believed the outbreak of plague had supernatural origins, blaming the suffering of the innocent on unseen forces.” And then further: “Warfare brought suffering, weakening civilization against unseen horrors. By some accounts, widespread bloodshed and warfare strengthened malefic forces in the world. A few arcanists claim that such evils could very well have been the cause of such strife….” That is in regards to the Shattered Dynasty era, which followed the short-lived successor state to the Primeval Kings. Note that similar speculative, unclear language is used in the manuscripts to describe anything relating to Abaddon and his demons.

There is also the Apocrypha, which was sealed in Fahranur before it was abandoned to the Scarab Plague, seems to have contained the knowledge necessary to free Abaddon, and was initially regarded as a “gift.”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

SlyFoxSays.5342:

Scouting the desolation in GW1 clearly shows the ruins of previous civilizations. Given that the desolation was created when Abaddon was cast out, and this is the region in which Joko hails/rules froms, I am willing to bet that the creation of Joko as a sort lich king and the creation of the desolation are interconnected. Though there were also the ruins of some Shattered Dynasty “kingdoms” such as the Remains of Sahlahja, as well as ruins from when Turai Ossa went on his pilgrimage into the Crystal Desert, such as Lannur.

Perhaps Joko ruled over a kingdom that was destroyed during the fighting between the gods and he was imbued with some sort of godly magic side-effect. Purely speculation of course, but given that Vizier Khilbron was turned into a lich under similar circumstances, it seems possible.

Those ruins were built by the Primeval Kings (some by the Forgotten though), who’s reign went as far north as the Tomb of the Primeval Kings.

Currently nothing links Joko to the Primeval Kings, especially since Joko is said to have been an “up and coming prince” when Oswald Thorn was alive 500 years prior to GW2. Meaning that, most likely, the time in which Joko appeared as a lich is shortly after his life as a mortal.

The only (known) civilization around in the Crystal Sea area prior to the Exodus were the Margonites and the Forgotten – the latter were not humans, the former did not build those ruins as they were a sea-faring people.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

There is some, obscure, evidence that points towards some activity by Abaddon or his agents around 450 AE.

Are you referring to the Scarab Plague? Because 1) nothing really hints at Abaddon’s influence there and 2) that’s the only thing of note around that timeframe.

You’re like some sort of GW lore guru. I forgot about the Mad King’s statements. :/ It just seems to me that Joko has some connection to the Desolation, beyond simple defense, that hasn’t been addressed as yet.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, there are hints- not much more, but solid enough to build theories off of.

In the Nightfall manuscripts, it is stated that “many believed the outbreak of plague had supernatural origins, blaming the suffering of the innocent on unseen forces.” And then further: “Warfare brought suffering, weakening civilization against unseen horrors. By some accounts, widespread bloodshed and warfare strengthened malefic forces in the world. A few arcanists claim that such evils could very well have been the cause of such strife….” That is in regards to the Shattered Dynasty era, which followed the short-lived successor state to the Primeval Kings. Note that similar speculative, unclear language is used in the manuscripts to describe anything relating to Abaddon and his demons.

There is also the Apocrypha, which was sealed in Fahranur before it was abandoned to the Scarab Plague, seems to have contained the knowledge necessary to free Abaddon, and was initially regarded as a “gift.”

I wouldn’t be so quick to connect that all to Abaddon.

There’s more dark magic in the world than being tied to Abaddon or the Elder Dragons. And the Scattered Dynasty Era was just humanly bloody in of itself.

However, something I just remembered, some of the generic allied NPCs in the Desolation holds some hints to your theory crafting.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

There is some, obscure, evidence that points towards some activity by Abaddon or his agents around 450 AE. As it is implied that simple knowledge of Abaddon and Nightfall can bring about the later, I believe this activity was a failed attempt to free the former. I further suspect that Palawa Joko was around during this time, due to his apparent knowledge of Abaddon, the Mouth of Torment, and the Margonites, and indeed may have played a role in the effort’s failure, given his openly antagonistic stance towards all of the above.

(quoting so no need to scroll up)

From the Dynastic Spirit – “The dynasties were a time of peace and plenty. Children laughed and men and women discussed all manner of philosophy. Palawa Joko ended it all.”

This hints that Joko’s either from the time of the Primeval Dynasty or the Great Dynasty – as the only other named dyansty would be the Shattered Dynasties which were far from being a time of peace. Given how Joko “ended it all” he’s either going to be tied to the Scarab Plague (as that’s what ended said Primeval Dynasty), or he’ll be the reason why the Great Dyanstic collapsed – a situation that’s unstated.

If the name of the NPC is of any indication, then they’re of the Primeval Dynasty – because of the Dynastic Tombs sharing the same name, and said tombs were of the Primeval Dynasty’s nobles.

Then from the Ascension Pilgrims we get: “Palawa Joko’s final curse on us was the Scriptures of Abaddon. And look what they have done to the Ossa line.”

This proves part of your theory right – Joko does have previous knowledge of Abaddon. But it doesn’t seem so much to be in opposition to Abaddon. It may be he sought out Abaddon and the gods’ power in the past.

From Palawa’s actions in Nightfall, though, I’d say he was no friend to Abaddon.

Personally, I think it’s too much coincidence that the Scarab Plague came out of the First City – which also held the Apocrypha of Abaddon. It may have been some curse of Abaddon, it may have been some last safeguard of the gods to the Apocrypha being uncovered (namely, ‘kill everyone who may have heard of it’).

On the Palawa connection – having his base of power in that area, the simplest explanation is possibly that he came across some leftover Margonite writings, and they were found after his defeat.

I don’t know, he has always seemed interested in power, at least enough to take hold of the continent of Elona. I wouldn’t be surprised if in his youthful ignorance he did turn to Abaddon for power. The twist here is that even if the power gave him his immortality, unlike the Lich and Shiro, he realized he was being used, and he turned his back on it. He was obviously no friend of Abaddon by the time of nightfall.

I could easily see Joko turning on Abaddon the second he got what he wanted.

Regarding the Scarab Plague and Apocrypha – that’s a connection I don’t doubt at all, personally, but I wouldn’t label it as an intended action of Abaddon’s or his agents. Main reason why I don’t doubt a connection is in regards to where the Apocrypha is found in Nightfall – in the Flooded Rainur which is said to be “entry to its Storm Quarters, underground housing and grain storage” – and combine this with what the Scarab Plague was believed to be – scarab eggs in the food, presumably wheat and grain, that hatched inside people. Seems as drax said, too much of a coincidence.

But I still wouldn’t label it as an intentional act of Abaddon or his agents. Seems more likely to be a massive case of Aggression (aka Necromatic) magic. Or preservation (resurrection). Or both.

Indeed – a connection, not necessarily a direct act.

I’d probably go with necromancy – it has a preexisting connection to both disease and insects. Especially given that I’m not sure the ‘eggs in the food’ hypothesis, while an ingame theory, has been proven – if magic is involved, it could be that the insects were created by the sickness rather than the other way around.

That said, a better explanation would probably be that it just animates dead things, and like the Risen animals that are still able to breed in Orr, the magic of the plague was not only able to animate the insect foetuses but allow them to grow as well (likely at the expense of the victim). Such a burst of necromantic energy might also go a long way to explain why Fahrunar was full of undead in GW1.