Guild Wars 2

From the Points of Interest Livestream:

Kate: “So, there was one thing I wanted to…um, Angel, you mentioned earlier that you had a, uh, a, it was related to the dying Zephyrite…”
Angel: “Mmhmm.”
Kate: “…and it was about Kasmeer.”
Angel: “Yes…”
Kate: “That was something you wanted to talk about.”
Angel: “Uh, yeah. So, um. I wanted to talk a little bit about Kasmeer’s gift. Uh, it’s, it’s been with her since uh, the Tower of Nightmares, um, and it is…it seems to be growing in power, or she’s just beginning to understand what it is and is able to use it, and we see it in this release with the dying Zephyrite who is lying. She, she mentions again that she, she can tell sometimes—not always—she can tell sometimes if someone is lying. Um, that…that is going to be an important…piece for Kasmeer’s story. And, uh, and so I just wanted to point it out for those of you who hadn’t noticed. This is one of those things that we, we shine the spotlight on that, that you really probably should pay attention to.”
Kate: “You know if Angel’s sayin’ it, by the way, you know it’s legit. You know that’s, that’s some good stuff.”
Angel: “Mmhmm.”
Theo: “It’s really nice when people notice, uh, these little things…”
Angel: (laugh) “Yeah.”
Theo: “…‘cause they…we, we don’t put these in here, like, for no reason…”
Angel: “Right.”
Theo: “…uh, they do pay off, so pay attention!”
Angel: “Yeah, yeah.”

So, yeah, not much else to say about this. Is this something that anyone else has noticed throughout the Living World releases?

There’s not much to say. Most of us did the instance and saw the line, I personally didn’t think much of it. I was more interested in the secret of the Master (and the Zephyrites) than any special “gifts” given to Mesmer Sue (contacted by Mesmer Collective because she’s special, removes tower veil no-one else could, super long range portals, creates more clones than normal mesmers, blinks across gaps – she gets a pass on that, I imagine all mesmers can do that it’s just a balance decision). She went from being someone we’d never heard of to the most demonstrably powerful mesmer we’ve seen in game (discounting Jennah who used her powers in the books and to be fair, she has magic royal blood or something). So far all Braham has done is break a leg. Maybe he should be an actor instead?

Rox is superstitious and that hasn’t mattered yet (E supposedly doesn’t think highly of people who rely on luck, so maybe it will come up then). Until it matters, it’s one of dozens of details to keep track of this release.

I mentioned this vaguely in the mind magic thread, maybe it’s linked to the mesmer magic Angel mentions that can enter your mind (if it’s only growing now it just starts off as picking up on instinctual cues about lies, but when it develops it’s something more powerful).

The only thing I can’t make sense of is why it’s been with her since the Tower of Nightmares. Why then? She was pricked by a thorn, but why would that give her powers? I’m sure many people were pricked while running around the tower. The rooms were full of deceitful illusions (lies manifested) but again, she wasn’t the only one exposed to those things – every player mesmer was, the Vigil was also in the tower. What makes Kasmeer special? I can’t think of anything special happening to her that would explain why she gets a “gift” but no-one else does.

Kasmeer is going corrupted?

All hail our new Mesmer Overlord?

Kasmeer will take Lyssa’s place as the Goddess of Illusions.

The amount of uh&um is over 9000!

Besides, I would never have linked some magic, mesmeric powers with her ability to tell that someone tells lies.

“Lie to me” anyone? I thought that it’s just that she saw some characteristic physical symptoms and made that “diagnosis” based on that.

Writers have to either clearly say “THIS IS MAGIC, HERE, LOOK” or throw that magic&pink power idea out of window.

I’d choose option number two. After Scarlet, same as many players, I respond to “magic powers” and “magitech” with a throw-up.

It’s not really a great clue is it? A mesmer working at a detective agency can spot a lie?

I actually had issue with the whole “she’s lying” scene. So this lady is dying of apparently mortal, and likely very painful wounds, and her posture says she is lying? Her posture is more likely saying “OH GOD IS HURTS!”

I suppose it’s nice that Angel wanted to clarify that it was a magic lie detection ability. To me that scene felt forced and inaccurate. Kasmeer should have just stopped with saying she’s sure it’s a lie. Saying it’s in her posture and eyes just doesn’t make sense given the zephyrite was bleeding out from a mortal, and presumably painful, wound.

Also, nothing in that scene indicated a magic gift on Kasmeer’s part. If the writers wanted us to know it was a magic ability, they should have given us clues to it. As it stands, the only way to know it is to listen to what Angel said; which is very…lazy of the writers. Leaving out the line about posture would have been better, replacing it with a line about instinct or intuition would have been a clue tying into Kasmeers gift.

Given the vast improvements elsewhere in the writing, story, and character development this just stands out like a sore thumb.

I thought it had to do with Mesmers having a thing for illusions and lies, like a kind of intuition since it’s their field but uhhh…
…that’s just as kittenpulled as Rox’s sudden ‘healing magic’ back on the breachmaker.

Writers should either try do better with exposition and foreshadowing about stuff like this or leave it out before it develops into sue-stuff that needs to be explained in retrospect. Tho overall I agree with what Torsailr said.

ElysianEternity.6215:

I thought it had to do with Mesmers having a thing for illusions and lies, like a kind of intuition since it’s their field but uhhh…

I thought the same thing. Mesmers are skilled in the arts of deception so being able to spot lies just seems like a mesmer trait.

I bet it is somewhere in the Grandmaster level of Illusions trait for mesmer, only which Kasmeer can access to at this stage.

AHA! It took me some digging and braining recalling, but I’ve found the dialogues which allude to it

For the dragon bash one, I guess now this conversation made sense, tho I’m disappointed now by what it really is, however it is strange that Kasmeer was not in scene during that detection part. —-
Lady Kasmeer Meade: Excuse me, Jory. What did Logan Thackeray want?
Marjory Delaqua: Justice, I guess. And he paid in advance.
Lady Kasmeer Meade: Where are you going this time?
Marjory Delaqua: Lion’s Arch. Come along, if you like. I could use your special talents. Besides, Dragon Bash is in full swing.
Lady Kasmeer Meade: (gasp) Thank you. That’s so kind. I believe I shall.
—-

Now THIS is the one that strongly links it to, during Merry Winstersday—-

Kasmeer Meade: I can’t believe she just sauntered into Divinity’s Reach like that.
Kasmeer Meade: Our poor queen. She must be beside herself. Our city, violated.
Kasmeer Meade: This is our home. Are we not safe even here?
Marjory Delaqua: Kas. Darlin’, why don’t you sit down. You’re making my head spin.
Kasmeer Meade: Sit? Are you kidding? How can I sit? We have to do something.
Marjory Delaqua: What do you suggest we do?
Kasmeer Meade: Find Scarlet. Someone in this city knows something. We should talk to people. I’ll know if they’re lying.
Marjory Delaqua: Hm. You better be careful. People will start thinking that pretty head of yours isn’t just for decoration.
——-

ElysianEternity.6215:

I thought it had to do with Mesmers having a thing for illusions and lies, like a kind of intuition since it’s their field but uhhh…
…that’s just as kittenpulled as Rox’s sudden ‘healing magic’ back on the breachmaker.

Writers should either try do better with exposition and foreshadowing about stuff like this or leave it out before it develops into sue-stuff that needs to be explained in retrospect. Tho overall I agree with what Torsailr said.

Mesmers can read minds.

Also Rangers are well known for having healing abilities. How the heck is it odd for Rox to be able to perform field medic actions given it’s something rangers are known to do AND that she lost her entire warband before and was likely to learn some field medicine so she could save friends if they got hurt?

Also to Shiren, game mechanics mate. Kasmeer is not the most powerful Mesmer we’ve seen. I suppose you’ve forgotton about the Risen mesmer who placed an illusion over an entire force of Vigil (A very sizable force at that). Or the one who had every Risen inside the manor (Mouth of zhaitan) under an illusion. No, I don’t see her being the most powerful mesmer we’ve seen ingame, besides perhaps a note of “friendly” on there. Also the risen priestess of Lyssa, which would be IMO the most powerful mesmer we’ve seen ingame in actual fights.

“More clones then normal mesmers” = Game mechanics and player balance. We’ve had literally been told of cases where a mesmer summoned massive illusions at cost of physical health.
Removes the veil nobody else could… proof of that? Given how she was the only one who TRIED, and even then it took her a while.
Super long range portals… Doesn’t the mesmer portal have a decently long range anyway?
Contact by the mesmer collective because she’s special… proof of that? We have no idea why they contacted her besides wanting somebody to investigate the veil, no reason for her in particular at all is given. So, proof of them contacting her because “SPECIAL!”

Vexander.9850:

Kasmeer will take Lyssa’s place as the Goddess of Illusions.

…It’s Kormir all over again..

OH MY GOD THEIR NAMES EVEN RHYME.

I can see it now..

PC: “We’ve defeated the dragon, woo! Thanks Lyssa, sorry you had to use your godhood powers to defeat it.”
Lyssa: “It’s no problem. But look, Mordremoth’s energy has coalesced. Such raw power would cause destruction unless someone weilds it and ascends..”
PC: “Taimi, you’re almost dead from your disease.. you should take it. Plus how cool would it be to have an Asu-”
Kasmeer: “I SHALL SACRIFICE MYSELF TO SAVE US ALL!”
Marjory: “Nuuuuuuuuuuu! BUT I NEEDS MY PRINCESS!”
Kasmeer: “We’ll both share it!”
both jump in
PC: /facepalms
Lyssa /facepalms
Taimi /facepalms
Taimi has died

@Kalavier

So, how exactly is Mesmers reading minds a gift that’d only start for her with the ToN? :P
From the sound of it, it seems to be more a ‘special power’ than a talent at the typical mesmer mind-reading. Why else ask us to pay attention to it if it’s something ordinary that most mesmers could do?

And ‘Rox is a ranger and therefore knows healing’ is a bit of a weak excuse and a poorly executed one on top in regards to the plot. We’ve never seen or heard of her casting magic before. By that logic, Braham could have healed himself because he’s a Guardian and they’re about support and healing moreso than rangers.

It’s more of a writing issue than “is it possible in lore?”

If they wanted to show Rox knowing life-saving healing magic, they should have alluded to it in some visible form prior, especially since that kind of magic doesn’t get brought up a lot in the plot and needs some explaining on its limits.
Since they didn’t do that, it has this Eleventh-hour-superpower miff to it.

tl dr; Nothing wrong with Rox knowing that stuff. Much wrong with the execution of it.

About Rox & healing: they were in the middle of a crash, knowing there would be lots of wounded above. I would’ve taken Rox and Kasmeer, no matter what that annoying freak Taimi suggested (in our story, as leaders of this sorry bunch we should be able to decide our team’s composition), no matter how heavy Rox is – which is laughable, since I’ve seen dozens of charr and norn run up those broken scaffolding and it didn’t give in under them.

Rox could’ve stabilized Morning, Kasmeer could’ve portaled her to safety, and we could’ve gently interrogated her in Prosperity. That’s what a well-functioning team would do in a situation like this. But knowing just who are writing these stories…

+ 1 to writers’ incompetence

When I saw that line, I assumed that her being a mesmer (masters of deception) she’d have a natural talent for discerning lies. I didn’t assume it was a super natural ability from the Tower of Nightmares. So it’s good that Angel pointed it out, because it didn’t seem odd to me at all.

I was paying more attention to the fact that Marjory summons a bone bridge, which I discussed with Konig. We’ve never seen a necromancer summon a bone bridge before, except back in my old Horrorween trailer for GW1. I have no idea if it is a reference, or just a funny coincidence.

Stooperdale.3560:

It’s not really a great clue is it? A mesmer working at a detective agency can spot a lie?

That’s pretty much what I thought. A specialist in magic that involves deception, emotional manipulation, and mind reading and control can tell someone is lying? Particularly when someone is working a job where they can expect to encounter people who attempt to deceive them on a regular basis, for fair reasons and foul? Stop the presses!

Regarding Rox: Every player ranger has magic that they can use to heal others, if they have the appropriate healing skills loaded. Usually just their pets, but with Healing Spring, that restriction is removed. Like the mesmer lie detector above, that’s all I assumed it was – a ranger doing something that we already know rangers can do.

@Thalador: Taimi’s calculation probably had a certain element of ‘power per weight’ to it. A norn or charr PC is still not much heavier than Braham or Rox, while the PC is acknowledged as being the best fighter among the group. So my gut feeling is that Taimi’s calculations basically allowed for two humans and a norn/charr – whichever is heavier – but even if the PC is an asura, the asura plus Kasmeer and Marjory still represent a better power/weight ratio.

Arguably, it might have been better if the PC was an asura to replace Marjory with Braham, but that would require changing the instance by race. As for seeing lots of PCs running up and down the scaffolding later – game mechanics at work. It’s possible that the scaffolding was reinforced in some fashion after the story instance.

What’s a bigger weakness is that most PCs, with the appropriate build, could have gone in and had healing to deal with it. Guardians, engineers, elementalists and rangers all have plentiful access to party healing if they build accordingly, and most of the other professions can at least have a little. We may just have to accept that there is a level of ‘mortally wounded’ where it’s too late for modern magic to help even if the subject is still conscious. Morning was there, while Marjory wasn’t… quite.

ElysianEternity.6215:

@Kalavier

So, how exactly is Mesmers reading minds a gift that’d only start for her with the ToN? :P
From the sound of it, it seems to be more a ‘special power’ than a talent at the typical mesmer mind-reading. Why else ask us to pay attention to it if it’s something ordinary that most mesmers could do?

And ‘Rox is a ranger and therefore knows healing’ is a bit of a weak excuse and a poorly executed one on top in regards to the plot. We’ve never seen or heard of her casting magic before. By that logic, Braham could have healed himself because he’s a Guardian and they’re about support and healing moreso than rangers.

It’s more of a writing issue than “is it possible in lore?”

If they wanted to show Rox knowing life-saving healing magic, they should have alluded to it in some visible form prior, especially since that kind of magic doesn’t get brought up a lot in the plot and needs some explaining on its limits.
Since they didn’t do that, it has this Eleventh-hour-superpower miff to it.

tl dr; Nothing wrong with Rox knowing that stuff. Much wrong with the execution of it.

Um, Mesmers read minds back in Edge of Destiny. Kasmeer said she could tell if somebody was lying way back before tower of nightmares.

How did it start with Tower of Nightmares?

Also, who says Rox used actual MAGIC, and not simple field medicine techniques but called it “Battlefield magic.”? I again, saw nothing wrong with it because her backstory and profession made perfect sense for her to know field medicine. And no scenes beforehand would really show it off and why would she mention it? IMO it’d be awkward if she just mentioned out of the blue “Oh, I know a bit of field medicine!” given other events. And Tower of nightmares and Battle of LA, there was the toxin and Miasma to deal with which would’ve been out of her ability to treat.

Thalador.4218:

About Rox & healing: they were in the middle of a crash, knowing there would be lots of wounded above. I would’ve taken Rox and Kasmeer, no matter what that annoying freak Taimi suggested (in our story, as leaders of this sorry bunch we should be able to decide our team’s composition), no matter how heavy Rox is – which is laughable, since I’ve seen dozens of charr and norn run up those broken scaffolding and it didn’t give in under them.

Rox could’ve stabilized Morning, Kasmeer could’ve portaled her to safety, and we could’ve gently interrogated her in Prosperity. That’s what a well-functioning team would do in a situation like this. But knowing just who are writing these stories…

+ 1 to writers’ incompetence

Game mechanics. Dozens of norn standing on those bamboo beams would’ve caused issues realistically. Likewise, if the player was a larger norn or charr (especially in heavy armor), plus Rox, and Kasmeer, that could tip it in the weight factor.

Or the idea that if there were survivors up there, itd be best to have the most stable group for crossing it, because again, say the PC is a norn, then Rox and Kasmeer, carrying down morning, might just be enough weight to break the beams. Kasmeer could’ve portaled Morning to Rox if she had lasted a bit longer before dying.

Also the fact there are norn and charr Zephrites. What if a survivor was one of them? Norn PC, Rox, charr survivor, Kasmeer. A good bit of weight on an unstable structure of Bamboo.

When you have to bring up game mechanics, in most cases it means “not enough thought went into thinking through a given situation.” It was a lame way to force the couple to come with you, so they could develop their relationship further. Which resulted in an even unthoughtful encounter where a character had to be killed off since that’s the quickest way to tie up a story thread.

And then again; at least in the PS I could decide which route to take to solve a problem. Even in GW1, at the Raisu Palace mission of Factions we could decide which character to take along, who’d create a unique shortcut through scores of Shiro’ken or deadly traps. Now we’re being told we’re the leaders, yet have not a single option to organize our response to situations. Our underlings tell us what the hell we must do instead of sharing their opinion with us about how to forge ahead and letting their leader decide.

You know what? Actually, the weight/usefulness issue would’ve made an excellent difficult decision that could’ve resulted in diverse outcomes.

1.) You can take Rox/Braham (guardian heals, maybe) and Kasmeer, which would’ve resulted in saving Morning, earning and an extra instance where you question her in Prosperity about the Master of Peace (as well as maybe more in the future), but at the cost of losing a group of new Zephyrites — mostly norn and charr — whose platform gives in under our weight.

2.) Or you can go with the purring kitties, lose Morning, but save the new initiates.

@Kalavier

Uh, maybe you should read the OP about Kasmeer’s power and the ToN. It’s like right there.

And why she should mention it before? Answer: Coherent story telling.
I already said it’s not bad she knows it. It’s bad how her healing stuff was introduced.
Any healing-magic scenario in any story needs to be touched on before it becomes a plot-point.

Otherwise you run into scenarios where it a) cheapens the sense of danger b) creates potential plot-holes a la “why can’t she heal xxx when she could heal yyy?” c) said kind of scenario can take up resources and time to elaborate on in following releases where they could have placed lines for other things, or even worse they end up being explained outside the game or not being explained at all.
(See, the last point has been kind of a general problem in LS1 so lets hope they catch on the general problem this creates.)

And why bring it up outta the blue when you just cited 2 examples where her healing knowledge could have been demonstrated and touched on before? (Heck, Rox trying to heal people during the Tower of Nightmares and not succeeding since a special antitoxin was needed would have been even better since she didn’t even do much in the release back then :P )

The problem with forking stories though is how to deal with their repercussions. Either you have both forks lead to the same result which makes for a lot of wtf and “this was pointless” or you have different results which means the writers are forever making multiple versions of the story. Both options only get worse with more choices.

There are trade offs to both and success depends on how they execute it. And budget/resource considerations always place a limit on what can be done. Personally, resource issues aside, I’d probably go with forks that wrap up to the same result in each chapter. I think you have more options for re-playability that way and more opportunities to explore character development.

ElysianEternity.6215:

@Kalavier

Uh, maybe you should read the OP about Kasmeer’s power and the ToN. It’s like right there.

And why she should mention it before? Answer: Coherent story telling.
I already said it’s not bad she knows it. It’s bad how her healing stuff was introduced.
Any healing-magic scenario in any story needs to be touched on before it becomes a plot-point.

Otherwise you run into scenarios where it a) cheapens the sense of danger b) creates potential plot-holes a la “why can’t she heal xxx when she could heal yyy?” c) said kind of scenario can take up resources and time to elaborate on in following releases where they could have placed lines for other things, or even worse they end up being explained outside the game or not being explained at all.
(See, the last point has been kind of a general problem in LS1 so lets hope they catch on the general problem this creates.)

And why bring it up outta the blue when you just cited 2 examples where her healing knowledge could have been demonstrated and touched on before? (Heck, Rox trying to heal people during the Tower of Nightmares and not succeeding since a special antitoxin was needed would have been even better since she didn’t even do much in the release back then :P )

Perhaps Tower of Nightmares is one of the first times Kasmeer used her magic in an offensive or combat situation? Still, “Gift” which basically any mesmer can do is kinda misleading. We’ve known mesmers can read minds.

Again(about Rox), it’s something known that rangers can do. It’s like having an elementalist have to explain being able to create a rock barrier using magic. Sure it’d be nice beforehand, but I don’t see how it’s jarring or plot breaking to have her do something we (especially GW1 players) have known rangers to be able to do.

In tower of nightmares, what wounded could she have helped? Anybody who was sick was directly from the toxins, which she’d been unable to do anything. And in Escape from LA/battle for LA, all the wounded were being sent to the field hospitals, while Rox was fighting alongside Braham during the escape, and stayed in the forward camp while the miasma cleared. Also the fact in tower of nightmares Rox and Braham only appeared in the torture rooms, which has led people to wonder if they were entirely illusions or actually there :P

Speaking of the Tower of Nightmares thing, I guess they’re saying she got a bit of the toxin directly into her bloodstream, and her body instantly built up an immunity? Due to the magical mind altering powers of it, one could guess it enhanced her mesmer abilities further, which is how she could make a portal that took us out of the Tower of Nightmares at the end of it, and that army of clones she made at the end of The Battle for Lion’s Arch.

Such an explanation would have worked if it was just for those two things. But telling a person is lying? As a mesmer? I’m sorry, just say she read Morning’s mind as she was dying.

And if we’re going to talk powers caused by that toxin, why haven’t the player’s started hearing voices or developed stronger slot skills since then, since we got the full brunt of the toxin?

-small sigh- :P

Elementalists don’t need no explanation, that’s an entirely different thing. Stuff like that doesn’t affect the plot itself in the way the situation with Rox did.
It’s just about the healing and how it was handled in the plot.

Healing is a fickle thing. It needs its limits hinted at how it works at least before dropping the bomb. Otherwise “Rox uses heal to save the day because ranger” is no different than “Asura uses magitech plot-device of the day because they’re Asura.”
See where I’m getting at now? :P

And the example with ToN was exactly that. She couldn’t have saved anyone because only the anti-toxin could have helped. But she could have tried to anyways. Would have given us the opportunity to a) see her using this magic before a plot-crescendo b) give us a small insight what she can and can’t do as medic.

If you don’t expand on what she can and cannot do with her healing, she’d run into the danger of becoming a deus ex machina. Or just as bad, the plot artificially circumventing her because she can help but the writers don’t want her to (mind you that one is only bad when it’s really obvious).

Who says the Zephryites don’t have in their meditation something that shields them from mind reading?

Also, the “army of clones” AGAIN, game mechanics and balance. We know a mesmer can (at physical health cost) summon a huge army of illusions and MAINTAIN it for hours. Or summon a mountain sized illusion to distract foes. (Ebon Falcon mesmer, the latter just blinded her for a while, the first blinded her and drained her life force till she died from that or from a charr reaching her and wounding her).

Hell, as shown by a simply thing of maintaining an illusion of her dress, throughout the ENTIRE tower of nightmares, without it ever being broken (and that’s WITH Kasmeers nervous nature back then)… Yeah, Mesmers really are powerful. Game mechanics and balance temper things.

Just like for example, there is a human necromancer in an event chain who summons 3-5 flesh golems at once. players can summon one at a time. Balance.

edit: I understand your point, though I still believe “She heals them enough to not be at risk of dying before reaching a proper medic” isn’t some crazy thing. Cause even after that if you talked to Marjory and Kasmeer they talk about how she is still seriously messed up and really shouldn’t be fighting at ALL.

It’s not a crazy thing at all. Just the exposition (once again) was poorly.
I think we’re on the same page about that. P:

And I really wonder if “Kasmeer’s gift” had to do with the pricking. The toxin itself was just “nightmare mixed with krait magic” (whatever exactly krait magic is. Is that referring to the Obelisk shards or their own spells?).
Idk, something about that thought just… peeves me. “I got injected with something usually deadly but instead I’m developing new powers and learning how to handle them” sounds like the intro to a superhero comic, so I hope that’s not where we’re heading…asdfghkj.

Or the thorn was nothing more then a thorn… :P

Well personally I hope so. :P
Come on writers, keep pushing S2’s standard and surprise me in a good way. :P

I don’t mind that Kasmeer could tell she was lying.

I mind that Kasmeer says she saw it in physical signs when it could easily have been handwaved and made more sense by saying “Mesmer magic!” Marjory seemed more the type to be able to read physical signs of someone lying than Kasmeer. Heck, they could have double-teamed it and said something like Kasmeer saying she sensed the lie through her magic and Marjory confirming this, that she noticed certain physical signs but wasn’t sure.

But also yes, being in excruciating pain and suffering from mortal wounds would tend to make one’s posture be less than casual, making it more ridiculous that there are physical signs being read.

That whole scene with her “I KNOW she is lying” felt so painfully forced that I thought it ruined what it was trying to deliver. In fact it left me thinking “This is something Jory who runs the agency should have seen and said instead.”

Perhaps the voice actor was instructed to deliver it that way or simply failed in her delivery, but to me Kasmeer’s voice was too rigid with absolute confidence and “I know what I’m doing, so believe me in no uncertain terms” tone that… it ruined the whole scene for me. It didn’t make sense that she should be so adamant about a person’s posture when they are DYING!

If she had said, “It’s hard to explain this, but sometimes I see colours. Flashes that come and go so fast and I saw something this time… a flicker of colour around her face. I know… I know she was lying.”

THIS! This would have worked for me. Because with Kasmeer being a noble and still acting like she’d been a pampered rich noble far longer than a poor noble… saying she sees thing in posture should NOT make her Apollo Justice. But if it comes through magic and some so called gift then at least that would be a development that works.

Because her saying “I saw colors dancing around the dying ladies face! She was lying!” would be so much more sensible then perhaps her picking up on things that may have been disguised by the wounds and near death status of the lady.

Using your line of dialogue, I then ask myself “Wait, if they flash by very quickly and randomly, how does Kasmeer know THIS flash of color means the lady was lying, instead of the fact the woman was literally seconds away from death?”

As ElysianEternity said, her saying that would’ve been akin to what Elysian said about Rox’s healing ability. Suddenly shoved forth with no priory explanation. We KNOW Kasmeer can tell when somebody lies. She mentioned it in Wintersday after the Jubilee!

Her suddenly going off about seeing colors that flash by quickly would make some of my characters (If I played them in that role of leader of biconics, which I don’t in storytelling personally) question her ability or sanity, besides perhaps my Asura who does practice some mesmer magic.

Her mentioning posture and eyes is believable and makes sense, Marjory may have missed those signs while trying to get answers and keep the lady awake and ALIVE. Suddenly mentioning that she saw a flash of color and that means the lady was lying is not so believable, and I’d honestly see the reaction of “Are you really sure it means that? She was dying after all…”

Kalavier.1097:

Her mentioning posture and eyes is believable and makes sense, Marjory may have missed those signs while trying to get answers and keep the lady awake and ALIVE. Suddenly mentioning that she saw a flash of color and that means the lady was lying is not so believable, and I’d honestly see the reaction of “Are you really sure it means that? She was dying after all…”

Posture and eyes would have made sense… if she wasn’t dying.

Being in excruciating pain from mortal wounds would tend to make someone’s bodily actions be different from someone just casually talking.

I’m pretty sure that “I saw it in her posture” would be far more likely to elicit the reaction of “Are you sure? She was dying, after all…” than “I sensed it through magic”, because sensing a lie through magic would not be coloured by them dying.

Do you know how polygraphs work? They don’t magically tell if you’re lying. They pick up on changes in your body’s subconscious actions, like pulse and whatnot. These are things which, if you just shot the person, would make it impossible to detect lies, because their body’s already going off the scale. If they could read your mind, though, it wouldn’t matter.

Also, Kasmeer is the one kneeling next to the Zephyrite. Marjory was not trying to keep her alive or awake, she was just standing there observing. At least, that’s according to my (eight or so) trips through the story, although to be fair, the place has bugged so that at least half of those trips, Morning is standing up. But in all of those trips, Kasmeer was kneeling, and therefore the more likely one trying to keep her awake/alive.

@ Kalavier:

I’m sorry if I confused you, but I only used colours as an example. It could easily be something else, but something that shows NOT tells the player character what is happening.

To me, the method used failed. I don’t think a mesmer with her background should be able to pick up things in the way the executed lines suggest. That’s a failing in delivery despite wanting to convey that maybe these are mesmer powers or maybe something else.

Frankly, colors or otherwise, it’d make sense if it had been brought up before.

But if it’s brought up as something new or something she barely understands, IMO that causes the judgement to be very questionable.

“If you aren’t sure what they mean half the time, can we really be 100% sure that this lady knew more and was lying?”

Kalavier.1097:

Frankly, colors or otherwise, it’d make sense if it had been brought up before.

But if it’s brought up as something new or something she barely understands, IMO that causes the judgement to be very questionable.

“If you aren’t sure what they mean half the time, can we really be 100% sure that this lady knew more and was lying?”

To be fair, I may have missed it since I started the game most of the way through the previous living story, but at any point did she show the perception to be able to see tells in a person’s posture or other physical movements to be able to tell if someone’s lying?

She seems quite content in bringing up that she was a pampered noble and had it easier than most people, so it seems to me that a skill like that isn’t something she’d have had to use frequently.

Still, “I can sense it because Mesmer” isn’t going to be particularly questionable. It actually makes logical sense that someone whose whole dynamic revolves around illusions and deception should be able to sense it through that same magic. But knowing how to magically deceive through illusions is different from knowing how to physically deceive through body movements.

Wintersday after the Jubilee, she EXPLICITLY says “Somebody knows something, we should talk to people. I’ll know if they are lying.”

She’s been working with Marjory for a bit, hangs out with her all the time, who says she didn’t pick something up?

Still “Cause mesmer” is one thing. But the example dialogue made it seem like something she HADn’t shared before, wasn’t sure about or didn’t understand it fully. If it had simply been a case of “Well, mesmer magic naturally picks up on lies. She was hiding something about that and I caught it.” it’s not bad.

Kalavier.1097:

Wintersday after the Jubilee, she EXPLICITLY says “Somebody knows something, we should talk to people. I’ll know if they are lying.”

She’s been working with Marjory for a bit, hangs out with her all the time, who says she didn’t pick something up?

Still “Cause mesmer” is one thing. But the example dialogue made it seem like something she HADn’t shared before, wasn’t sure about or didn’t understand it fully. If it had simply been a case of “Well, mesmer magic naturally picks up on lies. She was hiding something about that and I caught it.” it’s not bad.

1. I asked if she had stated she had the perception to see tells if someone’s lying, not if she could just tell if someone was. The quote you stated could also have referred to magical methods. I also said I came in most of the way through the living story, EXPLICITLY stating that I would have missed that, so I don’t know why you felt the need to capitalize explicitly to emphasize it.

2. Who’s to say she didn’t pick up some magical method to discern lies?

3. So your only issue is with the wording of the example and not what the example represented? You certainly said a lot when the only issue you had was with the idea of “colours”. You could have more succinctly stated your point by saying that the magic part makes sense while the colour part seemed out of place.

I was originally under the impression that she’s good at telling when people are lying due to her courtly upbringing. All those years of Machiavellian politics and double-speak would pay off now.

1: That’s pretty much all was said on the matter.

2: Mesmers can read minds.

3: My issue was with how the example came across, colors or not. The example came across not as a “She used magic to do so” but “She knew the lady was lying because of this effect… which is something she’s not used to, doesn’t understand, or has little experience with.” If she sounds unsure (which the example definately came across as), that makes it not very solid…

I honestly just thought it was her being a Mesmer. I’m kind of offended now that my Mesmer doesn’t have the power to detect simple lies.

Mesmers are a good plot device in this game though. Just think about how many Mesmers you meet during the personal story and how important their abilities are to some of the story lines. Like the Orrian Mesmer disguised as part of the Pact. Queen Jenna and Anise being able to predict Scarlet’s attack. Kasmeer breaking the Tower of Nightmare’s veil. Watchwork Knights being tied to illusions. Even in some gw1 story lines when they stated Koro Sagewind conjured up a huge illusion but was blinded.

Also, with Mesmers, they are able to write some really crazy things, since a Mesmer is confirmed to warp and bend reality, a powerful (very powerful…) Mesmer can probably do anything they want.

Even NPC mechanics. Kasmeer is able to make portals for the player (I assume PC Mesmers are able to do this, but cannot because game play mechanics). Lady Wii was able to cast invisibility for the PC also. There are more but I forgot the rest.

I wish I could say the same game play wise….

Player mesmers can make portals… It’s a huge thing with jumping puzzles.

But yes, Koro Sagewind at one point summoned a huge illusion, I’ve heard it called an illusion of the Eye of the North, an illusion of a mountain, OR an illusion the size of a mountain (or Eye of the North). But it did leave her blinded for a while.

Her final act while living was to summon a MASSIVE illusionary army which distracted and held the charr at bay for hours (hours to a day, I forget how long). She stumbled into the Ebon Vanguard blinded, and near death from it (her two guards missing, assumed killed).

I know player Mesmers are able to summon portals…. I main a Mesmer… I don’t know what your arguing about to be honest.

I meant that Kasmeer was able to use Portals unlike PC Mesmers. She can create them at range, while PC Mesmers have to get from point A to B.

But that’s besides the whole point of my post. I’m assuming they are making a powerful Mesmer character because… Well you can write anything (lore wise or even game play mechanic wise) with such a character as their tool.

Ah. I took your statement as portals in general. Not the ranged portal casting and/or blink + portal combo Kasmeer has done.

My bad.

I’m pretty much sure that after this discussion, her so-said “powers” will be more visible and understandable

Hah, this ‘gift’ is going to do wonders for her in the relationship with Jory (or any relationship whatsoever).

Nothing screams ‘trust issues’ like being able to tell every lie. People lie. All the time.

I wonder if this is good or bad news for Kasmeer, because I’m still under the impression one of the two is going to kick the bucket at some point.

Kalavier.1097:

Or the thorn was nothing more then a thorn… :P

Well, the line was delivered the same as every horror movie say “What was this sound? Nah, probably nothing.” It really did left me with the impression of a chekov’s gun at the time.
So if you are telling me that Kasmeer got something from the tower… that would be my p( r)ick :p

Let’s change this topic around. If Kasmeer has some empathy or other supernatural skills, how could this happen? Could she have gained some connection to the dream or nightmare whilst she was in the Tower of Nightmares? Is it possible that Scarlet had similar abilities, given that she could forge strange alliances despite apparently being a recluse?

LumAnth.5124:

I honestly just thought it was her being a Mesmer. I’m kind of offended now that my Mesmer doesn’t have the power to detect simple lies.

Mesmers are a good plot device in this game though.

I wish I could say the same game play wise….

This is far from the first time an NPC showed extraordinary abilities. Logan in CoF SM can cast a permanent shield that protects us from lava boulders. Marjory can cast a bone ledge !
Soon we’ll see a ranger talking to beasts and an engineer…oh wait, we already have Scarlet who engineered quite a lot.

But I didn’t even think anything from that line aside from “oh well, she’s lying ? Ok fine.” And I tried to pay attention because I figured out that this is a new story and they learned from the past complaints.
And while they certainly did for a lot of things, having to point out that a mesmer figuring out that people are lying is something we should find peculiar, is…..let’s say “weird”.

If she did get her lie detector ability from the Tower of Nightmares then it brings up another hinted potential threat to us…

We currently have Faolain, Scarlet’s Alliances, Menzies, Mr E, Master of Peace, Evon Gnashblade, Captain Ellen Kiel, Mordremoth, Caithe(Scarlet hints a dark secret is tied to her) and now Kasmeer….