Guild Wars 2

Dear Anet, love the game and I love the lore even more. It is so deep and expansive. In GW1, you had such an amazing story with lots of turns and so much richness everywhere. From xpack to xpack, the lore just seemed to get better and build upon itself more and more.

However I think the lore has fallen a bit flat with gw2. It seems that the main storyline is about Destiny’s Edge. That was ok but kinda bugged me that the big chunk of their story was contained in a book or scattered in small pieces in game, and then we only get the trail end of their story in GW2. It seems like a lot of the history of the game has been lost between xpacks.

Then came along F&F, which was fun and I liked how the story was released over a series of smaller patches, however the two new heroes seemed really shallow. They just sort of appeared midway through the story. Then one of them had a very small plot twist (oh noes he’s the son of someone….and that’s about all).

Where has the epic storytelling and plot building gone!? It we get little glimpses of brilliance every now and again through item names or a quick reference in a story dialog, but that’s about it. I’d love to see a better tie in of the history of the guild wars when the human nations were divided. What about Vekk, the dwarves, the bloodstones, the Scepter of Orr and all those other great things?! Please tell me you didn’t forget about them and they will be lost forever.

Then I heard that Cantha might not even make it to the game!? It would be a crime for that to be true. I want to feel like I’m trying to save the world again, and not trying to help two petty heroes settle their childish temper tantrums. Please kick it up a notch in the lore department!

/rant off. Bring on the flames.

I somewhat agree, but at the same time I think what I have heard Konig respond with makes sense. Do not compare GW2 to GW1 + factions + nightfall + EotN, just compare GW2 to GW1 Prophecies. Why you ask? Well simple, these are two completely different games and they are both revealing their history in a slow progressive fashion. So comparing a single version of a game to another game and it’s 3 expansions is not fair. GW1 has had much more time to expand it’s universe, much more than GW2 has been able to.

I do agree that a little bit of the story type of GW1 has been lost due to the focus of the world changing from political figures and warring factions to massive world ending forces. I do think that some of this will have a chance to return to the game in the future. We are already seeing the start of this through the Living Story and some mysterious figure combining forces in order to take out some of the playable races. Areas like Palawa Joko and the fort in Brisban Wildlands also have the opportunity to open this up as well through their story.

Also as for your little snippet on Cantha. No one at ArenaNet, from what I have read, is against Cantha. The only source of conflict for making Cantha part of the playable content (again from what I have read) is NCSoft. Either way, storywise it does not make sense for Cantha to make an appearance in the world until after Tyrians have had a chance to clean up their continent (still 3 Elder Dragons assumably on or near the Tyrian continent). So either way, if it does appear, it will be years down the road, unless something different comes our way.

Thanks for the reply, that does put it into perspective a bit more. I guess I’m just too antsy.

Robomath.3085:

It seems that the main storyline is about Destiny’s Edge. That was ok but kinda bugged me that the big chunk of their story was contained in a book or scattered in small pieces in game, and then we only get the trail end of their story in GW2. It seems like a lot of the history of the game has been lost between xpacks.

Uh, no, not really. The dungeon storyline is about Destiny’s Edge. Well, half of it.

Guild Wars 2 tells 4 different stories at once: Personal story, Dungeon story (aka Destiny’s Edge) story, Dungeon explorable (aka DE’s aftereffects) story, and finally the open world story. Three different storylines that continue at the same rate – though now the last one goes further along than all the rest thanks to the living story.

Regarding Braham and Rox and the depth behind them – remember that this is literally just their first chapter. Not even what Narcemus said can work with them – you cannot compare their story to GW1 on a whole, not even Prophecies on a whole. Their story is akin to pre-Searing GW1 alone, with the rest of the game acting as the manuals did for pre-Searing Prophecies.

GW2 on a whole, including the living stories, is content wise on par to the whole of GW1 up to but not including the release of Factions – that is, Prophecies, Sorrow’s Embrace, the changes to Tombs of the Primeval Kings, Halloween, Wintersday, and the Factions preview. So of course the story can’t be as deep as the overarching plot of Abaddon.

Moreso since Elder Dragons have less personality than a fallen god.

And you cannot have a decent overarching plot building in a single game. Prophecies was great, but if you look at it critically like folks are doing to the personal story, it’s rather wish-washed. That is to say, it seems like the writers couldn’t make up their mind in what direction to go – who’s the big bad going to be? Stone Summit? Nah, mooks! White Mantle? Nah, mook-beaters! Undead? Nah, just the leader, backed by charr gods! But this inevitably also made an interesting plot twisting device, as you’re being revealed new threats. Compare that to Factions, or Nightfal… you knew who the big bad was by the end of the second mission in both of them. In GW2, you only learn who you’re truly going to go after by level 50 – unless you got spoiled by ArenaNet telling us well over a year before that Zhaitan was to be the main antagonist.

In short: GW2 doesn’t feel to have as epic and plot building of a storyline because of three major facts:

1. They’re dividing the game into multiple storylines, unlike GW1 where each release had its own story.
2. They’re clearly defined. The best “who’s the bad guy” scenario we’ve gotten since Prophecies was Flame and Frost, and that was only for the first month. This removes the suspense and the plot twists quite well – sadly.
3. GW2 has still just begun. Comparing GW2 to pre-Factions and you’re rather on par in terms of plot development. Most of the things you asked “what about these?” just weren’t part of the story’s focus. It’s one thing to have plot building, and another thing to half kitten elements just because you wanted to include them. Wait for more expansions. Wait until GW2 becomes the size of GW1 before you go about complaining that GW2 isn’t as good of a story and lore telling as GW1.

Oh, and for the love of god IT IS PLAYER MISSPREADING THAT CANTHA WON’T MAKE IT INTO THE GAME. The developers never said such. It was Cantha DISTRICT in Divinity’s Reach that didn’t, and only because of negative feedback on the architecture. That has nothing to do with whether or not Cantha will be in the game. However, it won’t be in the game anytime soon, simply for story reasons.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Oh, and for the love of god IT IS PLAYER MISSPREADING THAT CANTHA WON’T MAKE IT INTO THE GAME. The developers never said such. It was Cantha DISTRICT in Divinity’s Reach that didn’t, and only because of negative feedback on the architecture. That has nothing to do with whether or not Cantha will be in the game. However, it won’t be in the game anytime soon, simply for story reasons.

Actually, I will back up narcemus on this particular matter. I remember reading in a topic about Cantha some dev’s posts stating that part of the reasons why Canthan district was removed before launch and why Cantha is not planned to be added any time soon is because of Ncsoft’s views on asian culture.
If I remember well, it seems like they are afraid of some steherotypes canthan culture might convey such as overpopulation, xenophobia or whatever.

I have to agree, I feel like a lot of the updates we’re given are lacking substance. I don’t even know what the story of this molten alliance thing is or why we’re no longer fighting the elder dragons.

If only there were ships in Tyria, I would sail across the unending ocean o.o

Us not knowing what’s fully happening in the Living Story, is kind of the point. You can view it as a book, if you were. The Molten Alliance arc was the very first actual full Living Story, first few chapters of the book. It introduced some characters, some villains, gave a lot of foreshadowing, but by in large; we don’t have a good feel of the full scope of the story yet. Just like when you first read a book.

Once they release more Living Stories, more details on what is happening in Tyria will slowly filter back to us, and we will get a better feel on the story as it slowly builds. The thing is though, is that takes time to build up a good story. Players can’t expect a timeline on things to come for the next year, and all the information on who the next antagonist is… instantly. That would ruin the mystery and the story.

WonderfulCT.6278:

I have to agree, I feel like a lot of the updates we’re given are lacking substance. I don’t even know what the story of this molten alliance thing is or why we’re no longer fighting the elder dragons.

If only there were ships in Tyria, I would sail across the unending ocean o.o

Well, not everything about the MA is revealed, intentionally so, but we do know quite a bit about them (the Flame Legion were approached by a still unknown individual, who convinced them to join with the dredge to become stronger and the Flame were then intending to enslave the dredge afterwards; the moletariate agreed to join, unknowing of the enslavement plans, because they wanted fire magic to improve their tech – probably knowing that tech+magic=great! thanks to their dealings with the Inquest, and they have a thing for fire, what with the furnace history), but the reason why we’re “no longer fighting the Elder Dragons” is two-fold, imo.

Firstly, there are more immediate threats. The only reason we went after Zhaitan is because he was on our doorstep and he was knocking. The closest threat in ED terms is Jormag, who’s still quite a ways north and is only just now starting to get on our doorsteps, but not a huge threat (yet).

Secondly, it’s to give us, the players, a change of pace from going Kill the dwagon! Kill the dwagon! Kill the dwagon!

Who cares about lore, endgame, PvP and lack of promised features if we can have a freaking mini hippo, a charr plush and a quaggan backpack? That’s why we play an MMO right?

Arenanet nowadays…

Even comparing it to just Prophecies storyline, Proph still wins hands-down.

Thou I agree that GW2 can’t beat GW1 proph+fation+nightfall in terms of lore, I still think GW2 story was, we all know it, not good. Honestly the most interesting part of personal story was untill 50th level. After you defend the L.A. story isn’t interesting at all. Everything is so focused on killing the dragon, that after 20 levels of playing just with that motive I got bord. And I played 3 different personal stories and killed Zhaitan 3 times, and that last battle against Zhaitan was so badly done I can’t even understand what were they thiniking.
Also about living story, people don’t like it, becuase it’s too slow and they hyped it with those teasers about changing the zones, etc.. when it was quite minimal. Not to mention we haven’t gotten new dynamic events that Colin said we were going to have every month. I remember reading it in a interview when he was explaining how with dynamic events they could add more, change how some work, put them on different timers, add new one to make zone feel alive. That didn’t happen. Only now did something change, but that is after 8 months :S
They have to make PvE more interesting because at it’s current state, for player how has been here for a long time, is it is not fun to play. I have played about 900 hours and at least 600 hours went into PvE. Also I avoid dungeons since they are badly designed, but molten alliance was really good and I really hope they start adding more content. Not feature but content.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

the Flame were then intending to enslave the dredge afterwards;

Where’s this little snippet from?

I don’t doubt you at all; you tend to be very well-informed, I’ve noticed.

But I must have missed this snippet. The dialogue from the Black Citadel Stockade seemed to suggest post-alliance anger & mutual blame, but I don’t remember anything suggesting an existing enslavement plan.

OT: The lore behind this installment does seem to have been lacking, in terms of fleshing out their motivations and drives. The Dredge, in particular, feel like a missed opportunity.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

the Flame were then intending to enslave the dredge afterwards;

Where’s this little snippet from?

I don’t doubt you at all; you tend to be very well-informed, I’ve noticed.

But I must have missed this snippet. The dialogue from the Black Citadel Stockade seemed to suggest post-alliance anger & mutual blame, but I don’t remember anything suggesting an existing enslavement plan.

OT: The lore behind this installment does seem to have been lacking, in terms of fleshing out their motivations and drives. The Dredge, in particular, feel like a missed opportunity.

The piece of dialog you get from the flame legion prisoner is different if your character is a male charr. Thought I don’t recall the exact dialog, the flame legion charr says they had the intention to betray the dredge afterward.