Guild Wars 2

Avariz.8241:

Lore wise we all know what Abbadon looks like from GW 1. He would be like that humanoid giant chained up to the cliff in the cliff face fractual. However instead of a human head he will have a big brain insect head stuck on a humanoid body similar to the Margonites but very much bigger. Game play wise I would take cue from Zhaitan/all other demigods fights, and a lot of people have found these initially very disappointing. Now that Anet have revamp them, I found them to be epic as expected when first promised at the beginning.

Actually, lore we have claims that his appearance changed over time. He looked different before his fall compared to Nightfall, and the statue found in the Temple of Abaddon – along with earlier concept art for him – shows him more human like than not.

In terms of appearance, I expect Abaddon to look like his temple statue, since those temple statues are supposedly to look like the gods themselves, as they’re the ones carved by Malchor.

Avariz.8241:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

…

Is there anything to suggest that he has always looked that way? I imagine after being struck down by the other Gods and then imprisoned in the Realm of Torment you might look a little worse for wear also xD. (Also the murals depict him in his demonic state so maybe he has always looked like that I don’t know?)

At the time of GW 1 it can be said Abbadon’s main followers were Margonites and Abbadon appeared mainly as a Margonite. However at the time of the Six and Arrah it can be said their main followers were human and therefore the Six can appear in human form. This could mean that at Abbadon’s fall when his main followers were human he could appear in human form.

ERm, not quite.

Firstly, Margonites are (or rather, were) human – a human nation of sea-farers, akin to the Luxons, to be exact.

Secondly, nothing says other than some illusions to mix into humans that they can change their appearance – and even then that’s only Lyssa and Dwayna. Abaddon didn’t “look like a human because he had human followers” – he looked like a human because he looked like a human.

Or so as far as we know.

His appearance changed for Nightfall due to still unexplained reasons. If you follow pre-Nightfall lore released solely to the Asian community, then it’d be that for all of the gods, one’s goodness/evilness and intention warps one’s appearance – the good look beautiful and divine, the evil look dark and twisted; Abaddon’s appearance slowly changed over time, even before his fall, with blue wings turning into blackened insectoid scythes. However, if you go with the Nightfall gw.dat lore, then he had to rebuild his body from the land of the Realm of Torment itself, and that’s more likely to be accurate, and would explain why he’s only a head and two hands in GW1.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Avariz.8241:

Lore wise we all know what Abbadon looks like from GW 1. He would be like that humanoid giant chained up to the cliff in the cliff face fractual. However instead of a human head he will have a big brain insect head stuck on a humanoid body similar to the Margonites but very much bigger. Game play wise I would take cue from Zhaitan/all other demigods fights, and a lot of people have found these initially very disappointing. Now that Anet have revamp them, I found them to be epic as expected when first promised at the beginning.

Actually, lore we have claims that his appearance changed over time. He looked different before his fall compared to Nightfall, and the statue found in the Temple of Abaddon – along with earlier concept art for him – shows him more human like than not.

In terms of appearance, I expect Abaddon to look like his temple statue, since those temple statues are supposedly to look like the gods themselves, as they’re the ones carved by Malchor.

Avariz.8241:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

…

Is there anything to suggest that he has always looked that way? I imagine after being struck down by the other Gods and then imprisoned in the Realm of Torment you might look a little worse for wear also xD. (Also the murals depict him in his demonic state so maybe he has always looked like that I don’t know?)

At the time of GW 1 it can be said Abbadon’s main followers were Margonites and Abbadon appeared mainly as a Margonite. However at the time of the Six and Arrah it can be said their main followers were human and therefore the Six can appear in human form. This could mean that at Abbadon’s fall when his main followers were human he could appear in human form.

ERm, not quite.

Firstly, Margonites are (or rather, were) human – a human nation of sea-farers, akin to the Luxons, to be exact.

Secondly, nothing says other than some illusions to mix into humans that they can change their appearance – and even then that’s only Lyssa and Dwayna. Abaddon didn’t “look like a human because he had human followers” – he looked like a human because he looked like a human.

Or so as far as we know.

His appearance changed for Nightfall due to still unexplained reasons. If you follow pre-Nightfall lore released solely to the Asian community, then it’d be that for all of the gods, one’s goodness/evilness and intention warps one’s appearance – the good look beautiful and divine, the evil look dark and twisted; Abaddon’s appearance slowly changed over time, even before his fall, with blue wings turning into blackened insectoid scythes. However, if you go with the Nightfall gw.dat lore, then he had to rebuild his body from the land of the Realm of Torment itself, and that’s more likely to be accurate, and would explain why he’s only a head and two hands in GW1.

In GW 2 lore Malchor, a human sculptor, saw the Six who consented to have him created the closest likeness of the Six in statues of stone. In human lore what he did was believed the truest forms of the Six done by a human.

In GW1 we, all those who completed the Gate Of Madness and reached the Temple Of The Six, with our own eyes behold the Five and yes what we see with our own eyes are some what quite different to what Malchor has bequeathed.

So yes the appearances of the Six have manifested differently in different epochs.

What we saw in the Gate of Madness were only the avatars of the Five, the same avatars that appeared at every intact god statue you /kneeled in front of. Even in the subtitles i think it is the “Lyssa’s Muse” that speaks , not “Lyssa”

lakdav.3694:

What we saw in the Gate of Madness were only the avatars of the Five, the same avatars that appeared at every intact god statue you /kneeled in front of. Even in the subtitles i think it is the “Lyssa’s Muse” that speaks , not “Lyssa”

It was Lyssa who spoke to me in the first person to the second person (me) and she spoke on behalf of all the Five. Because it was not in the third person, I know it was the Five who were present and not a (third person) as agent taking on the appearance of the Five speaking on their behalf.

Avatars of a god are in fact different manifestation of the same god spirit but appearing in a different form in a different epoch which is exactly what I have writen.

Those are the avatars. It explicitly says in the cinematic that the one speaking is Lyssa’s Muse. That’s her avatar. She does speak of Lyssa in the third person.

Lyssa’s Muse: “You are not alone. The gods are always watching.”
Kormir: “Watching? We need your help. We are only mortals, and we challenge a god.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “There was a time when the gods walked the earth. Every thought and achievement was a gift of the gods.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “But now you must realize that our gifts are within you. Dwayna lives in your compassion, Balthazar in your strength.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “Melandru dwells in your harmony, Grenth in your justice.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And in your inspiration, Lyssa is there.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “The divinity is within you. And so, we give you our blessing. That should suffice for the task ahead.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And to you, Kormir, a most special gift.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “This is your world, now. This is your decision. You must make the choice that only a mortal could make.”

So once more, those are not the gods themselves. They are the avatars, which can be summoned at statues when the world has favor.

And no, the avatars are not different forms of the gods. They are separate beings entirely. The Avatars of Grenth, for example, are the Seven Reapers – the mortals who stood with Grenth when Dhuum was overthrown.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Those are the avatars. It explicitly says in the cinematic that the one speaking is Lyssa’s Muse. That’s her avatar. She does speak of Lyssa in the third person.

Lyssa’s Muse: “You are not alone. The gods are always watching.”
Kormir: “Watching? We need your help. We are only mortals, and we challenge a god.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “There was a time when the gods walked the earth. Every thought and achievement was a gift of the gods.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “But now you must realize that our gifts are within you. Dwayna lives in your compassion, Balthazar in your strength.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “Melandru dwells in your harmony, Grenth in your justice.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And in your inspiration, Lyssa is there.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “The divinity is within you. And so, we give you our blessing. That should suffice for the task ahead.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And to you, Kormir, a most special gift.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “This is your world, now. This is your decision. You must make the choice that only a mortal could make.”

So once more, those are not the gods themselves. They are the avatars, which can be summoned at statues when the world has favor.

And no, the avatars are not different forms of the gods. They are separate beings entirely. The Avatars of Grenth, for example, are the Seven Reapers – the mortals who stood with Grenth when Dhuum was overthrown.

In the real world Avatars are from real a region. Unfortunately that region is big and is designated correctly as a sub continent. The large geographic spread and the culture and religion diversity of the region as brought about a wide ranging creation myths and believes that can and does include both your interpretation of Avatars and my interpretation in accordance to the different believes that are follow in the different regions by different ethnic groups and in different time periods. The differences between us is I have just acknowledge this diverse source and different practices where as you have not.

The seven heroes who accompanied Grenith, there is certainly one who pointed out the fact that he was one of the seven and he has taken on the form of Grenith’s Avatar, but this clearly tells us he is not Grenith himself. This clearly indicate that his form is not his own but that of Grenith. However, in the Temple Of The Six Gods, the Five (avatars) did no such thing. The scene as a whole did not exclude the Five have actually taken their own forms in that epoch but it does allow the fact that a third agent not of the five could have assumed the image of the Five in that epoch.

Admittedly different avatars of a godly being is a highly detailed and evolved subject which include change in ego and personality of a god from the world the god comes in to being and I don’t know half of it well enough to continue elaborating on it right now.

There is difference in nuances by you (third person) quoting the part of the scene of an avatar (first person) talking to me (second person). My own experience has been without you there, that Lyssa herself was talking directly me. That is my own personal experience. Though you don’t say so for yourself, I can accept the fact that other people could have the same scene but with the experience that Lyssa herself did not speak to them but instead a third intermediary spoke on behalf of the Five who is not of the Five.

This can only get further confused when different writers take the lead to develop the story taking the original concept to another direction, or even the same group of people developing the story in a different course from that what they themselves have originally envisaged as dictated by Anet, the organisation as a whole.

So we’ve got…

Evon Gnashblade
“I’ll slash prices on Black Lion Keys for four whole weeks” (I don’t care for that)

“I’ll sponsor important Fractals of the Mist research into the Fall of Abaddon, to be completed by the end of the year” (Awesome!! OMG I WANT THIS!!!)

“I’ll host a rotation of popular activities like Crab Toss and Southsun Survival” (meh…)

Plus he’s a shady character. (I don’t like that, but people might find that appealing)

Ellen Kiel
I’ll reduce waypoint travel prices for four weeks’ time(loved that)

I’ll support important Fractals of the Mists research into the Thaumanova Reactor explosion by the end of the year (might have interesting ED lore, but who knows. It’s just a wild card)

I’ll introduce a rotating schedule of activities such as Crab Toss and Southsun Survival (meh…)

Plus she’s a goodie (I like that, but again, some people might find that unappealing)

I’m voting for Kiel. I’m trusting in A.Net devs to make some interesting lore in the reactor.

He’s a known quantity. He’s easy to read, subtle as a brick through a window, and about as sneaky as a level 1 Thief. I can trust him to go with the highest bidder.

She’s too good. She’s unpredictable, has someone pulling her strings, and owes too many people favors. She’s unfortunately bad at hiding her problems. I don’t trust her.

Evon is perfect for the Council. No surprises there. It comes down to personalities. She’s just not trustworthy to me.

I wonder if Anet developers are taking bets on who wins. Promotions on the line maybe on who is the better developer group each assigned to a different campaign maybe.

^— Anthony Orden seems to be trying to push people in the direction of the Thaumanova Fractal xD.

(Avariz, real world notions and personal opinions of what Avatars are in the real world don’t factor into this at all. In GW2 we know for a fact that the Avatars are NOT the Gods and are in fact separate entities to them. Anyone who has been in the Underworld and seen the Reapers knows this. They are Servants of Grenth who work on his behalf, not Grenth himself or aspects of Grenth. Lyssa’s Muse is the same – regardless of how you personally felt during that mission – Lyssa’s Muse is not Lyssa. The implication was always there in GW1 that the Gods had already distanced themselves from Tyria quite a bit and the Avatars were our last remaining link to them.)

FlamingFoxx.1305:

(Avariz, real world notions and personal opinions of what Avatars are in the real world don’t factor into this at all.)

Because in the real world Avatars are used to explore the planet Pandora, which is a horrible 3d planet, as we all know.

But back on topic, it would be very interesting if we got to see Abaddon’s side of the story. Was he really such a bad guy? Or were his intentions good?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

(Avariz, real world notions and personal opinions of what Avatars are in the real world don’t factor into this at all.)

Because in the real world Avatars are used to explore the planet Pandora, which is a horrible 3d planet, as we all know.

But back on topic, it would be very interesting if we got to see Abaddon’s side of the story. Was he really such a bad guy? Or were his intentions good?

I’ve always felt like his intentions weren’t completely bad? He was originally enraged by the other Gods limiting the gift of magic he had given to the races of Tyria. It sort of seems like he believed in absolute knowledge and thought this was something that should be shared with the races – whereas the other Gods were more concerned with the effects of this and how the races would use magic. It also seems like one of the catalytic moments was induced by the Margonites fanatic worship of him, so his actions in attempting to protect them aren’t entirely unjust. “act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy” Sounds pretty logical to me xD. I don’t think it was a case of good vs. evil in the beginning but perhaps more just that his opinions on how the races of Tyria should be treated and the information they should possess differed to the opinions of the other gods which caused a lot of tension between them. In the end though attempting to pretty much turn everything to Nightmare seems pretty bad to me xD.

Avariz.8241:

In the real world Avatars are from real a region. -snip- The differences between us is I have just acknowledge this diverse source and different practices where as you have not.

The word avatar simply means an embodiment or personification of something, usually a deity. Real world usage is 100% irrelevant in the game of Guild Wars.

And honestly, kitten you. Excuse me if that’s harsh, but don’t bloody well insult me. I have made it a hobby to try to study other cultures and mythologies. So don’t go well saying that I don’t have an acknowledgement or knowledge of diverse practices when you don’t know whether I do or not.

Besides that, it is, as said 100% irrelevant to how the word is used in a fantasy setting.

It is a FACT that the NPC met in Cathedral of Silence story quest is not Grenth, but his (or rather, one of his) avatar(s) and one of the Seven Reapers. It is a fact that we have never once ever seen the gods themselves with the exception of Abaddon, Kormir, and Dhuum.

Don’t bring in real world meanings behind words with insults to people that you clearly don’t even know.

Avariz.8241:

The seven heroes who accompanied Grenith, there is certainly one who pointed out the fact that he was one of the seven and he has taken on the form of Grenith’s Avatar, but this clearly tells us he is not Grenith himself. This clearly indicate that his form is not his own but that of Grenith.

Uh, no. He never once says that he has taken on the form of Grenth’s Avatar. Him using Lich Form is just an updated version of him using a Smoke Phantom form from GW1.

Avariz.8241:

However, in the Temple Of The Six Gods, the Five (avatars) did no such thing. The scene as a whole did not exclude the Five have actually taken their own forms in that epoch but it does allow the fact that a third agent not of the five could have assumed the image of the Five in that epoch.

There are four things that prove you wrong, two I pointed out but will point out again:

1. The game itself tells us the one speaking is Lyssa’s Muse (that is, Lyssa’s avatar), not Lyssa herself.
2. Lyssa’s Muse talks of Lyssa in the third person.
3. Lyssa is the shared name of twins, Lyss and Ilya, not a single floating head.
4. When mortals look upon gods, they become blinded after a time. Looking at five gods at once would certainly have blinded such.

There’s also a fifth:

• Wintersday in GW1, where the Avatar of Dwayna and the Avatar of Grenth speak out in their gods’ name, but are not the gods themselves. They are just like the ones who appear elsewhere in the game (particularly the Avatar of Dwayna, who shares the same name).

Avariz.8241:

There is difference in nuances by you (third person) quoting the part of the scene of an avatar (first person) talking to me (second person). My own experience has been without you there, that Lyssa herself was talking directly me. That is my own personal experience. Though you don’t say so for yourself, I can accept the fact that other people could have the same scene but with the experience that Lyssa herself did not speak to them but instead a third intermediary spoke on behalf of the Five who is not of the Five.

….

Wow. Just wow.

Okay, how can I break this to you…

The cinematic does not change from person to person. It is the same for everyone. And the wiki has documented how it is for everyone – how it was for me, how it was for you (whether you realize it or not), and how it was for every other person who watched that cinematic. The only thing that changed was the party leader.

…

The real world Avatars are use by followers as a believe in two and more different gods in different epochs are in fact one and the same at the time of the followers who believe so, and each Avatars are reincarnation of the same essence but of different worldly emanation at that particular age for that particular god. However unlike people who dies and get reincarnated gods do not die so hence the formation of the believe of Avatars as a substitute for reincarnation of the same godly essence into another godly being in another different creation myth. However, other followers of the gods involved might have different believe that their own god are not the same as another in the grouping, and they do not use the term Avatar for their god. Their god is their god and is separate.

Modern day multimedia culture borrow the word avatar and used it to mean an image used as an substitute or representation for a person who is not of the image, such as an popular image not of themselves but use used to represent themselves on social multimedia interaction.

In GW 1 and GW 2, Anet has used both the traditional avatar and the modern multimedia avatar for their rendering of character development. The Pale Tree Avatar keep more in line with the traditional believe of avatar. She, the Pale Tree Avatar, is the pale tree. They are one and the same.

Another use of avatar is the seven hero of Grenith, where the hero involved followed the modern multimedia usage where he use the image of Grenith in that epoch as a representation of himself acting on behalf of Grenith. Yes, the seven hero avatar do change in each different epoch as the Avatar of Grenith himself change in those different epoch.

Lyssa herself is two in one and therefore it is keeping in her essence to address herself as in the third person some time (the Lyssa Muse aspect) when in a first person usage as in the Temple Of The Six Gods scene talking to me (the second person).

Edit: short on time for editing typo error – will do so later…

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

(Avariz, real world notions and personal opinions of what Avatars are in the real world don’t factor into this at all.)

Because in the real world Avatars are used to explore the planet Pandora, which is a horrible 3d planet, as we all know.

But back on topic, it would be very interesting if we got to see Abaddon’s side of the story. Was he really such a bad guy? Or were his intentions good?

I’ve always felt like his intentions weren’t completely bad? He was originally enraged by the other Gods limiting the gift of magic he had given to the races of Tyria. It sort of seems like he believed in absolute knowledge and thought this was something that should be shared with the races – whereas the other Gods were more concerned with the effects of this and how the races would use magic. It also seems like one of the catalytic moments was induced by the Margonites fanatic worship of him, so his actions in attempting to protect them aren’t entirely unjust. “act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy” Sounds pretty logical to me xD. I don’t think it was a case of good vs. evil in the beginning but perhaps more just that his opinions on how the races of Tyria should be treated and the information they should possess differed to the opinions of the other gods which caused a lot of tension between them. In the end though attempting to pretty much turn everything to Nightmare seems pretty bad to me xD.

This is what I got out of what we currently know about him as well. Abaddon was just doing something he felt was right, and it went horribly wrong for him. I personally feel like the Abaddon we knew was a result of him having nothing but his likely feelings of betrayal and hate to drown in.

Fall of Abaddon is what I want to see.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

My guess?

There are five of us.

Abaddon fought five gods.

Remember Urban Battleground Fractal and turning into charr?

Yeah.

… That would be undeniably the BEST Fractal ever.

Avariz.8241:

In GW 1 and GW 2, Anet has used both the traditional avatar and the modern multimedia avatar for their rendering of character development. The Pale Tree Avatar keep more in line with the traditional believe of avatar. She, the Pale Tree Avatar, is the pale tree. They are one and the same.

I think Anet is using avatars in the same way as classic dungeons and dragons. They are messengers from the Gods, nothing more. You can see this whenever you kneel down at a god statue in GW1, the same avatars appear for Dwayna and Grenth as during Wintersday. And the reapers of Grenth also look identical to the avatar that appears at the statues. So we know for a fact that Grenth’s avatars are not Grenth himself. I think it is safe to assume this goes for all the other gods as well, including Lyssa.

Avariz.8241:

Another use of avatar is the seven hero of Grenith, where the hero involved followed the modern multimedia usage where he use the image of Grenith in that epoch as a representation of himself acting on behalf of Grenith. Yes, the seven hero avatar do change in each different epoch as the Avatar of Grenith himself change in those different epoch.

Grenth, not Grenith.

Avariz.8241:

Lyssa herself is two in one and therefore it is keeping in her essence to address herself as in the third person some time (the Lyssa Muse aspect) when in a first person usage as in the Temple Of The Six Gods scene talking to me (the second person).

No, the avatar of Lyssa refers to Lyssa as if she is a separate entity. Because she IS a separate entity. All of the god avatars refer to the God they serve as someone other than themselves.

Avariz.8241:

…

The real world Avatars are use by followers as a believe in two and more different gods in different epochs are in fact one and the same at the time of the followers who believe so, and each Avatars are reincarnation of the same essence but of different worldly emanation at that particular age for that particular god. However unlike people who dies and get reincarnated gods do not die so hence the formation of the believe of Avatars as a substitute for reincarnation of the same godly essence into another godly being in another different creation myth. However, other followers of the gods involved might have different believe that their own god are not the same as another in the grouping, and they do not use the term Avatar for their god. Their god is their god and is separate.

Modern day multimedia culture borrow the word avatar and used it to mean an image used as an substitute or representation for a person who is not of the image, such as an popular image not of themselves but use used to represent themselves on social multimedia interaction.

In GW 1 and GW 2, Anet has used both the traditional avatar and the modern multimedia avatar for their rendering of character development. The Pale Tree Avatar keep more in line with the traditional believe of avatar. She, the Pale Tree Avatar, is the pale tree. They are one and the same.

Another use of avatar is the seven hero of Grenith, where the hero involved followed the modern multimedia usage where he use the image of Grenith in that epoch as a representation of himself acting on behalf of Grenith. Yes, the seven hero avatar do change in each different epoch as the Avatar of Grenith himself change in those different epoch.

Lyssa herself is two in one and therefore it is keeping in her essence to address herself as in the third person some time (the Lyssa Muse aspect) when in a first person usage as in the Temple Of The Six Gods scene talking to me (the second person).

Edit: short on time for editing typo error – will do so later…

Ok, I give it a shot. How the word avatar can be interpreted in the real world is of absolutely no meaning for GW2. They can basically use any term they want, describing something completely different. Of course they do it rarely since that would be only a confusing mess if you did it all the time.

But let me give you an analogy: The word god in our world can describe a whole ranges of beings. It can go from nature spirits, to ancestors, to former rulers (like a pharaoh), to immortals that live since the beginning of time and yes even mortal beings (though the latter is rarely the in the real world mythologies, while often in modern fantasy settings).
It’s a very vague term since all over the world different cultures worshipped different gods, with different rules and limitations to their powers (somethimes none at all).

So when ANet creates gods, they can make them however they want them to be. Mortal, malevolent, omniscient or smelling like a wet dog. There are practically only the limits of human imagination.
Same goes for the word avatar, they can use it however they want, since it’s not bound to the real world. They can have the word avatar mean that somebody just ordered fish&chips and is not satisfied with the greasiness of the food. However they chose to make it another word for projection. If you as a dervish player transformed into an avatar of Melandru, you did not die and Melandru was reborn into your body, no you simply transformed into an image of Melandru, using her power. The avatars you see in the temple of the six are also projections, in this case more like angels. They serve the gods as messangers, since the gods don’t personally interfere with mortals anymore. They project the will of the gods, but they aren’t the gods.

From the ending cinematic of nightfall:
Kormir: “Yes I can! I can contain the power. This is the gift the avatars gave me!”
(…)
<player name>: “Abaddon?”
Kormir: “No. His power. His knowledge. But not him. His will is broken. There is a new god of secrets. There is a new day.”
(Kormir is here already a god, and is not referred to as “Kormirs Avatar”, but in order to get into the Realm of Anguish, you have to talk to the Seer of Truth(wich is her Avatar) in the Chantry of Secrets)

I may be in the minority here, but I would rather see the Fall of Abaddon executed “well” – i.e. a long dungeon like Arah 4, since we don’t have campaigns expansions- rather than putting it into a Fractal, which is going to gut most of the detail and background on it. Kind of like sushi – delicious but not very filling.

The reactor, at least, is something that I think would easily be self-contained in a Fractal-sized thing. A bit of exposition at the beginning – a paragraph’s worth of dialogue at most to give us context – a build-up, and then a boss fight. It would be simple and satisfying.

Of course, I think it’ll end out to be about the same. People will whine because it’s yet another piece of forced content. A few more people will probably quit outright because they didn’t get what they wanted. The people who don’t care about lore can have another thing that they can speedrun, and the people who do can now bicker all they want about how many asura scientists it takes to make a very large explosion or whine about how their theory about the build-up is the best and how everyone else is wrong and should be barred from presenting their obviously wrong opinion.

Mursaat.

Caradryan.1795:

the people who do can now bicker all they want about how many asura scientists it takes to make a very large explosion

That feels like a joke…

“How many asura does it take to make a lab explode?”

“None, asura are so “ingenious” they make their labs to blow up on their own. Usually with them inside."

Hmmm, may need some improvement.

Back to topic, I certainly would like to see the Abaddon Fractal. I desperately would like to see more of GW1 in GW2.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

My guess?

There are five of us.

Abaddon fought five gods.

Remember Urban Battleground Fractal and turning into charr?

Yeah.

yes … YES!
I can see it already, each class turn into a God, like Rangers turn into Melandru, Guardians turn into Dwayna, Necros and Thief into Grenth and so on.
Or even randomly turn each of the 5 into one of the Gods and then an epic fight against Abaddon.

I think that the Abaddon’s fall fractal will be more interesting, but I’m sure that sooner or later both fractals will be available, so I’ll vote for Kiel for the WP fee reduction and be able to check the story behind the reactor first, then we’ll see Abaddon’s fall later.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That feels like a joke…
“How many asura does it take to make a lab explode?”
“None, asura are so “ingenious” they make their labs to blow up on their own. Usually with them inside."
Hmmm, may need some improvement.

Q: How many Asura does it take to make the Thaumanova Reactor explode?
A: Inquest

Belzebu.3912:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

My guess?

There are five of us.

Abaddon fought five gods.

Remember Urban Battleground Fractal and turning into charr?

Yeah.

yes … YES!
I can see it already, each class turn into a God, like Rangers turn into Melandru, Guardians turn into Dwayna, Necros and Thief into Grenth and so on.
Or even randomly turn each of the 5 into one of the Gods and then an epic fight against Abaddon.

I think that the Abaddon’s fall fractal will be more interesting, but I’m sure that sooner or later both fractals will be available, so I’ll vote for Kiel for the WP fee reduction and be able to check the story behind the reactor first, then we’ll see Abaddon’s fall later.

This ^

Don’t you just love what Mr. Johanson say’s here in this article:

When asked whom he plans to vote for in the election at the heart of the upcoming Cutthroat Politics release, Johanson expressed his support for Evon Gnashblade and went on to explain that the story impact of selecting a winner will go far beyond the perks associated with each candidate. Evon Gnashblade and Ellen Kiel are characters with wildly distinct personalities and might use their Council votes in very different ways for years to come. Players who are more interested in funding for their favorite built-from-scratch Fractals of the Mists scenario had better hustle to get their votes counted, though: Johanson said that it was unlikely that the losing concept would ever be built, as he feels that doing so would cheapen the impact of the final decision. However, he did make the lighthearted suggestion that mass player protests and political demonstrations could change that.

So Colin alluding us to taking out our pitch forks and torches if we are not happy with this election (for the denial of story/lore content), is not exactly what I call positive/constructive thinking how the community should work. I agree few others this was a poor choice in making us choose between the two fractals. The mini games I can understand but not the fractals.

^— Except that they’re trying to get across that the decisions we make impact the game. The in game world therefore needs to feel in some ways real, they have limited resources and time so it wouldn’t make sense to investigate both and they are using it as a way to introduce us to the possibilities that each candidate presents. He isn’t saying bring out your pitchforks if you want us to make both, he’s saying if enough people want the unmade fractal to be made then they might be convinced of its use.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

He isn’t saying bring out your pitchforks if you want us to make both, he’s saying if enough people want the unmade fractal to be made then they might be convinced of its use.

It still sounds like a challenge to me! =)

Come my fellow angry mob minded brethren! Grab your pitchforks! Grab your torches! Tonight, we dine in BELLEVUE, WASHINGTON!

Rabble Rabble Rabble!

I, personally, think that the thaumanova reactor would be much better suited to a fractal then the Fall of Abbadon. Plus. Always wanted to know what the kitten happened there. And I’m not inclined to trust someone who’s loyalty is to the highest bidder.
Edit:
Though, if they do turn us into the five gods… My opinion might change.

I’m for the reactor.

Playing the role of the god would cheapen their existance for me. They are best left out of the hands of the players.

Also Abandons = no possibility of dwarves

Reactor = almost no possibility of dwarves

LotKrotan.9467:

From the ending cinematic of nightfall:
Kormir: “Yes I can! I can contain the power. This is the gift the avatars gave me!”
(…)
<player name>: “Abaddon?”
Kormir: “No. His power. His knowledge. But not him. His will is broken. There is a new god of secrets. There is a new day.”
(Kormir is here already a god, and is not referred to as “Kormirs Avatar”, but in order to get into the Realm of Anguish, you have to talk to the Seer of Truth(wich is her Avatar) in the Chantry of Secrets)

Playing GW 2 is taking enough of my time already I am not going to set up GW 1 and go back in again, but isn’t the Seer of Truth the Order of Whisper guy and not the Avatar of Kormir herself?

You have to talk to a Order of Whispers guy to enter into the hidden area, the one that holds the statue of Kormir. After you kneel in front of it, it summons up the Seer of Truth, Kormir’s avatar. The avatar also refers to Kormir in the third person as well.

Erukk.1408:

You have to talk to a Order of Whispers guy to enter into the hidden area, the one that holds the statue of Kormir. After you kneel in front of it, it summons up the Seer of Truth, Kormir’s avatar. The avatar also refers to Kormir in the third person as well.

Ok, thank you for that. Then here is a good point to elaborate on a facet of religious avatars as oppose to the modern mundane(multimedia) avatars. Well, I did say a designation of one avatar(god/demigod) from that of an another avatar(god/demigod) of the same spiritual essence do/does involve a change/differentiation of ego, personality and more, and that I have said it is similar to that of reincarnation of people but not reincarnation. Well, within such a context it is within the rules of grammar and normal usage for one avatar referring to himself or herself of another avatar and of the same (himself or herself/ethereal spiritual essence) in the third person. Of cause this is just a rationalisation on my part on the diverse believes and practices systems of religious avatars from which modern mundane(multimedia) avatars draw from and some time intermingle with. Religious avatars have produced many art forms and not only GW but many other forms of multimedia have drawn from and changed into their own.

If I remember correction from last year when I last went into the hidden alcove of the Hidden God of Truth, the image of the Avatar of Komir is the actual image of Komir the goddess of truth, the golden lady with eye bandages.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

“How many asura does it take to make a lab explode?”

“None, asura are so “ingenious” they make their labs to blow up on their own. Usually with them inside."

Hmmm, may need some improvement.

How many Asura does it take to blow up a lab?

Two!

One to state that the lab might not be safe,
and another to disagree with him.

Karast.1927:

I’m for the reactor.

Playing the role of the god would cheapen their existance for me. They are best left out of the hands of the players.

Also Abandons = no possibility of dwarves

Reactor = almost no possibility of dwarves

Do remember, the whole idea of playing as the gods is solely user speculation. We have no real idea whether this will actually prove to be the case or not.

I’m like you, torn between the two …

Frankly I’d be sad to lose one of the two …

Evon and Abbadon are my choices hands down, too much interesting lore. Also, Kiel seems like a rather dull goody-two-shoes and having Evon on captains’ counsel may provide for some more interesting plot twists.

I’ve thought for a while that the story (both living and personal) needs more betrayel, plot twists, characters that aren’t good, but aren’t evil. Selfish, egotistical, frightened, take your pick.

Canach was almost there in that he was trying to be good but ended up being an idiot. But every other character has to be awesome. Except Logan…

Vote Evon Gnashblade, and we’ll see dirty tricks, corruption, murders, violence, possible riots and general misbehaviour. In a world of goody two shoes, that is what I want.

And I’m the guy that likes Treaherne…

I believe he was completely human at first with only one pair of eyes, but looted that mask from the corpse of one of his greatest foes (maybe his predecessor, a demon overlord, or an ally of that something that had forced the gods and humanity to leave their homeworld). It was a bad-a souvenir. Who says Abaddon wasn’t an adventurer like us before he became a god? :P

And personally, I’m voting Kiel because of morals as well as I doubt a 30-minute-long fractal can do much justice to something as grand as the Fall of Abaddon. The War of the Gods should be made into a DLC telling the story from the shattering of the Bloodstone, through Jadoth’s story and Doric’s plea, to Abaddon’s fall – all made in God of War’s style.

Plus, if my suspicion is correct, I REALLY want to fight a proto Elder Dragon of Chaos. XD

I’m not a GW1 player, but GW1 lore it’s interesting enough to read about it, story behind Abbaddon’s Fall feels to me way more interesting to than Asuras failing at playing science…