Guild Wars 2

A friend of mine brought up a real good point – he has been stuck on Kiel being behind many of the things in season 1, and due to many reasons that r too much to list for this thread has convinced me of the same. Today though, with the release of the season 2 trailer – and this is going along the lines that the sanctum was sabatoged and not shot down – we are even more convinced now that this is true. Who else would have had the perfect oppurtunity to plant explosives? Kiel was right there when the sanctum landed offering to have the liongaurd “assist” in helping to load supplies. Seems kind of suspicious to me.
I also have a question to go along with this theory, I usually spend a decent amount of time on the forums checking new threads, and havent really seem anything that I can remember about anything to do with Kiel really. Has there already been something the would disprove that Kiel is behind things? Also, if not, what do many of you think about this very possible plot?
To me it seems obvious, what better idea to give us a puppet to distract us from the real puppet(Kiel). We are told of a puppet attempting to place themselves in the council so we take them out. All the while what we are really doing is voting the real puppet into power ourselves…

I remember before Scarlet was revealed, she was a forerunner for being the true Scarlet, so it’s definitely crossed people’s minds. Not sure about after that, but there is still some room for suspicion.

Personally, I would like to see your list. When this has come up in the past, the only coherent evidence that’s been offered is that she has opportunity to do evil things, which is true of most major characters.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Personally, I would like to see your list. When this has come up in the past, the only coherent evidence that’s been offered is that she has opportunity to do evil things, which is true of most major characters.

Fair enough, give me some time to go back though stuff and double check the theories, but I will get back to that and provide a list by tonight.

You guys are still mad she won the election. Lol.

Nope. Kiel’s a goodie. She was there from virtually day one of the living story and as soon as we followed her round Southsun, killing the Karka Queen, we should have worked out she wasn’t a baddie. She was such a goodie two shoes that nobody even really noticed she was a main character at the time.

If Kiel is some sort of villain mastermind, she is better at it than Khilbron ever was considering she has a majority of the player base convinced she is good as well as the NPCs. And if that is the case, then why was Scarlet (according to the forum hate train) so cliche and predictable? Does Kiel have writers that outclass every other writer at Anet? Do they have a separate team dedicated to just Kiel’s arc?

Ellen Kiel and Logan Thackeray should get together on many levels. Both professionally and on a romantically (- after being brought up to speed by Marjory and Kasmeer that HRH Jennah and Countess Anise are lovers, and have been for quite some time). Logan and Marjory with the support of the PC(since the PC is the leader of the second group) need to work to merge the two groups of adventurers together to co-ordinate their activities and share resources – while operationally function as separate units.

They would need to since based on the limited information released for season two they will have to think and move fast as events will occur in multiple operational theatres – simultaneously. They are playing catch up …again!

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Ellen Kiel and Logan Thackeray should get together on many levels. Both professionally and on a romantically (- after being brought up to speed by Marjory and Kasmeer that HRH Jennah and Countess Anise are lovers, and have been for quite some time). Logan and Marjory with the support of the PC(since the PC is the leader of the second group) need to work to merge the two groups of adventurers together to co-ordinate their activities and share resources – while operationally function as separate units.

Only, Anise and Jennah aren’t lovers and there pretty much is no information to support such a claim.

Also why would Marjory and Kasmeer know that (if it was even true), and Logan be clueless? Why would EVERYBODY know Jennah and Logan are basically a couple (even if they aren’t publicly cause Royality and Commoner basically) if Kasmeer and Marjory know that?

Hell, if they investigated and found that out, WHY would they be investigating the queen’s relationships? And even if they were for some reason doing that, BOTH of them (Anise and Jennah) are powerful mesmers who can read minds. That basically means if they want something a secret, nobody would figure it out.

Kalavier.1097:

Hell, if they investigated and found that out, WHY would they be investigating the queen’s relationships? And even if they were for some reason doing that, BOTH of them (Anise and Jennah) are powerful mesmers who can read minds. That basically means if they want something a secret, nobody would figure it out.

That may well be, but Arenanet has been known to move the Lore direct in a way to suit their needs. A Logan and Kiel partnership will allow Logan the only respected and recognised male human NPC to be significantly relevant as a co-driver of the Humanity aspect of GW2 Lore.

To me his relationship with HRH Jennah does not work. Does nothing for the progression of the Lore. The fact that they can’t be seen together and do not have any scenes together in the Living Story (beyond maybe Queen’s Jubilee) content thus far to me is a proof of this. As a guardian by trade as well as a Seraph Captain and member of Destiny’s Edge he is a very under used character.

This can also be said about Braham he to me comes across as whiney and lacking drive and self confidence. This I think is the result of his childish attitude and disrespectfulness towards his mother Eir Stegalkin, again the result of extreme lack of self-confidence.

To me with Logan and Braham as glaring examples its clear that Arenanet has great difficultly for reasons that to me are a mystery in portraying believable, likeable, respectiable human/norn male main NPC characters.

Jinn Kazuma.2163:

If Kiel is some sort of villain mastermind, she is better at it than Khilbron ever was considering she has a majority of the player base convinced she is good as well as the NPCs. And if that is the case, then why was Scarlet (according to the forum hate train) so cliche and predictable? Does Kiel have writers that outclass every other writer at Anet? Do they have a separate team dedicated to just Kiel’s arc?

I would love it to no end if somewhere along the line it turned out, that Kiel is the real mastermind, and Scarlet was just a stooge pu there to distract everyone in a wild chase while Kiel makes her “goodie two shoes” moves behind the scene to grab all the power.

That would be in my opinion an absolutely amazing (and frankly, logical) plot twist that would restore my faith in GW2’s writers.

Hell, if I’d want to take over a chunk of Tyria, that is exactly what I would do. Finance some mad idiot to entertain the attention of the masses, while at the same time hitting everyone’s buttons “fighting” the threat and “warning” everyone about it, so that instead of forcibly taking voer, I would be given willingly the power I want.

I don’t believe that to be the case, but it sure as hell WOULD be true if I would write the story.

EDIT: I remember, when playing through Personal Story for the first time shortly after launch, I was absolutely sure, that Trahearne is in fact working for Zhaitan, after all he spent years in Orr, studying him, and while sylvari can’t be corrupted by Zhaitan, they sure as hell can be bad guys.

And it was such a perfect and obvious set up for a plot twist (So, I lead all the Orders to your doorstep Master, kill them now, and only danger to your reign is done!), plus I have a natural distrust for “goodie two shoes” characters, since I strongly eblieve that evrything has it’s motives, and people who help selflessly usually have well hiden agenda. And you don’t hide a charitable agenda.

I was very disapointed when I finished PS and realized that Trahearne is indeed just a boring puppet with no character at all, just like Kiel.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Kalavier.1097:

Hell, if they investigated and found that out, WHY would they be investigating the queen’s relationships? And even if they were for some reason doing that, BOTH of them (Anise and Jennah) are powerful mesmers who can read minds. That basically means if they want something a secret, nobody would figure it out.

That may well be, but Arenanet has been known to move the Lore direct in a way to suit their needs. A Logan and Kiel partnership will allow Logan the only respected and recognised male human NPC to be significantly relevant as a co-driver of the Humanity aspect of GW2 Lore.

To me his relationship with HRH Jennah does not work. Does nothing for the progression of the Lore. The fact that they can’t be seen together and do not have any scenes together in the Living Story (beyond maybe Queen’s Jubilee) content thus far to me is a proof of this. As a guardian by trade as well as a Seraph Captain and member of Destiny’s Edge he is a very under used character.

To me with Logan and Braham as glaring examples its clear that Arenanet has great difficultly for reasons that to me are a mystery in portraying believable, likeable, respectiable human/norn male main NPC characters.

They aren’t seen as much together (by players) because… their jobs.

Jennah is a queen, she rarely would just wander around. Logan is the leader of the Seraph, and part of Destiny’s Edge (and was told by Jennah basically to go out in the world instead of hover over her) He’d be in his office or on the field more.

I fail to see how Braham or Logan aren’t believable. and I like both of them just fine. I also respect Logan. Braham as well, but they both have their own traits.

Kalavier.1097:

I fail to see how Braham or Logan aren’t believable. and I like both of them just fine. I also respect Logan. Braham as well, but they both have their own traits.

They’re not believable because, basically, people can’t accept simple and direct folk as existing. Both Logan and Braham have simple answers to issues – hit it til it stops. Use whatever you can to get it done. They’re both Guardians by profession, and their focus is towards acting second rather than first in an engagement.

Here’s where a lot of people get hung up – the unbelievable parts from what I hear most: Logan Thackeray is not of noble blood but apparently is trying to hook up with the Queen. Braham is supposedly of great lineage but is unable to really shine.

(Which suggests people keep forgetting the cultural barriers involved – Logan can’t actually really be seen wooing the Queen without tarnishing them both, and Braham can’t rely on his mother’s reputation without drawing doubts on his own potential.)

Secondly, its that Logan doesn’t do anything ‘wrong’. Which is in itself incorrect, as he’s a hothead with the aforementioned “cut directly to the problem” approach. Which causes the Queen so much trouble she says “maybe you should take a break, you know, and not hover menacingly and give Caudecus more to work with?”

Then there’s how Braham never seems to do anything good . . . which then is also off base because he was in the Molten Weapons Facility. He just can’t claim sole credit for that. What can be claimed is how he has never backed from a fight without good reason, and he has always attempted to do something selfless.

Oh right, the whole thing of “Hey, here is the person causing trouble. Let’s throw them in jail/kill them now.”

I do remember the kittening Braham got from players cause he wanted to Kill Scarlet instead of letting her monologue and do who knows what.

Kalavier.1097:

Oh right, the whole thing of “Hey, here is the person causing trouble. Let’s throw them in jail/kill them now.”

I do remember the kittening Braham got from players cause he wanted to Kill Scarlet instead of letting her monologue and do who knows what.

The funny thing is, if it had been my choice? I’d have killed her too at that point. D-shot to the face, no thank you Scarlet, just die and stop trying to get extra time to escape or do something.

Even more amusing, to me, is how many people wanted her dead and how many people really didn’t care about anything other than just getting her out of the picture. Hey, what do you know, we got that. Enter the lovely crop of people who want to hold it against Braham since he was the one character there who would be the one to go “. . . no monologuing”.

It’s an averted trope situation which the writing sorely needs now and again to prevent being too simple.

Agreed with Tobias, “Brahamus interruptus” was the one good thing about Braham that I emjoyed seeing.