Guild Wars 2

So, perhaps I’m missing something simple that you can help me with here. The Revenant is confirmed to be able to channel him from the mists as a legendary hero, however this implies that he is dead (and therefore in the mists). When did this happen. At the end of GW1, he had transformed himself with all the other dwarves to fight the destroyers, but there is nothing about his death.

It is also known that the dwarves are still fighting (or heavily implied anyway) and known that old age will not take them in this form. So, did he die and there are no legends known about it, or has it been said somewhere that I simply am not aware of at the moment. Perhaps there is some other explanation that will make itself known. But I figured our resident lore gurus might be able to shed some light on this for me. Thanks!

I don’t personally remember any reference to his death but I would assume that somewhere along the line he was killed in combat. But with the Dwarves all (except Ogden) underground fighting, there’s no current way word would travel back up to the surface to have notified anyone of his death. If they were communicating at all with the surface we’d have more of an idea of what the state is on the fight against the destroyers, I’d imagine.

So based on the fact this new class can call on him, I would assume that even though they were turned to stone that their souls do go to the mists upon destruction.

I don’t see that implication.

The Mists is more than the afterlife. It is the origin of all things (supposedly); the protomatter that can create anything, often copies; home to islands of reality (fractals, sPvP maps); and most importantly in this case: memories of the past, present, and future.

We were never told – as far as I’m aware, and counter to popular belief – that revenants summon spirits. As you said, we channel the power of legends. This could be tapping into the “memories of the Mists” which means we could, theoretically, tap into the powers of heroes not yet born (or not yet heroes, or not yet dead).

If you know Fate/Stay Night, then you may be aware how one of the summoned heroic spirits is in fact the soul of one of the current living combatants – a soul summoned from a future hero, despite most souls being of past heroes. Theoretically, a Revenant may be able to pull off the same.

Though in Episode 5 – particularly Hidden Arcana – there’s a few statements of Ogden being the last dwarf in general, rather than simply the last dwarf on the surface. So Jalis could be dead – along with all other stone dwarves.

…… Konig you just made the Revenant profession so much more intriguing to me by comparing it to the Nasuverse lore. :P -shakes fist-

Roy Cronacher is a PvP/class balance dev, so take it with a grain of salt, but he specifically used the term past legends when describing the revenant’s power. it’s not the first time this is implied (or outright said) either. the original pitch we heard is he channels the great heroes and legends from guild wars history.

i think it’s pretty safe to say he’s dead. or maybe you could take it as Jalis as a consciousness died the moment he performed the ritual, his body just another part of the great dwarf.

though that reminds me… why does ogden retain his personality, conscience and knowledge, despite having turned to stone? doesn’t the ritual of the great dwarf basically turn them into a single conscience?

Technically they only mentioned that the legends are of the past… doesn’t mean the figures are no more though.

Ogden is a bit of an odd one though.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Technically they only mentioned that the legends are of the past… doesn’t mean the figures are no more though.

Ogden is a bit of an odd one though.

i think you’re getting too technical with the wording, it’s pretty clear that when they say legends, they’re talking about characters, not the abstract concept of a legend.

is there any explanation as to why he’s the sole known exception?

Maybe, maybe not. My real point is that we know far too little to be so certain that the Revenants are calling spirits – if this was so, wouldn’t they just say they’re calling the souls of legends, rather than calling upon legends? At least once? I am merely presenting possibilities given the lack of knowledge.

And as far as I know, no, we don’t know why Ogden’s mind seems mostly unchanged. Though it’s not like everything about the dwarves changed when they underwent the transformation – the Brotherhood of the Dragon in Eye of the North still fought to protect Glint. Ogden still has a continuous “we should be dealing with the dragons” mentality (or did in the Personal Story). So I think the change in personality isn’t as obvious as it was presented to be in that one cinematic.

i was under the impression it was more of an incarnating those fallen legends to obtain their power, all shaman king like (oh god, there will be so many shaman king cosplayers).

i was also under the impression that the dwarves that take on the ritual were effectively dead and became tyria’s equivalent of a glorified drone swarm, though ogden (and the brotherhood, i guess) prove me wrong.

Eye of the North showed that even post transformation, they were still individuals and sapient. It’s just that they had a collective conscious and their personalities were more fierce in determination against destroyers on top of no longer being flesh and bone.

There were many dialogues with stone dwarves and even the personality change wasn’t outright apparent.

It’s also possible that if Ogden is genuinely now the last (or just sufficiently isolated from the others), his personality is maintained because he doesn’t have teh voices of the others in his head.

With the mists proposing not only time travel but also multi dimension theory they can make up things from nothing.

Jalis dead here? Hey, just channel him from the past, other Tyria or a combination of both.

The Mists is basicly their way of saying: Screw it, it`s magic.
Subsequently we can`t kitten the real situation from there. At least that`s how I see it from their description.

It might work similar to echoes. We see an echo of Turai Ossa in the Priory library, it’s not actually him but a powerful, magical echo of him. I don’t think Turai needed to be dead for there to be an echo of him.

Maybe doing heroic deeds worthy of being a legend leaves echoes of yourself in the Mists and revenants are able to tap into those echoes, manifesting the power of the Mists using a legend’s identity to focus it? Fractals recreates fragments of the past fairly accurately, so it’s fairly open to what a revenant can do.

I’m hoping revenents have some interesting dialogue or interactions while in fractals. We keep seeing engineers get special dialogue, I wanna see more profession specific interactions in the game. Ranger observations while tracking, warriors commenting on stances, postures or battlefield strategy, elementalists sensing the elements etc. It could be a great way to add depth to the revenant lore as well as fractals and the Mists.

You got this from WP didn’t you? :P

That would be unfortunate, figured turning them into Stone to make them immortal was the best way to stop the advance of the Destroyers. In GW2 of course we see destroyers sprouting all over the place but I always saw that being attributed to Primordus finding hidden passages to use and get around the Dwarves – not that they were actually failing but rather Primordus growing ever so much stronger. After all, The Great Destroyer was but a Champion and not Primordus himself.

As for Jalis, there’s a few things. Perhaps its invoking on the Jalis before the transformation or his individual spirit was ejected out into the Mists during the ritual in order to substitute a much more powerful furnace that is The Great Dwarf’s heart. I think this question in particular is over thinking just a tad but then again, WoodenPotatoes didn’t really give much of an answer about it either that was in anyway final on the topic.

Ronin.7381:

You got this from WP didn’t you? :P

actually, WP’s video that brings up this point was posted after this thread, so it’s likely he was lurking the lore forums and read this thread.