Guild Wars 2

Why are they no info about this elder dragon? He has been awaken way before all of the other dragons and yet he’s still MIA??

Destiny’s Edge and many others have been fighting against him but we players haven’t even seen or heard of him at all except our (old) main heroes were talking about when Glint and Snaff died.

Where’s he?? Why are he’s not destroying Tyria like the other dragons?
Is he chilling out at Blood Legion Homelands and wait till Primordus and Jormag finishes off each other?

>_<

Alga.6498:

Why are they no info about this elder dragon? He has been awaken way before all of the other dragons and yet he’s still MIA??

Actually, Kralk was the second-to-last one up. I know that some of Taimi’s phrasing in Rising Flames was misleading, but Jormag and Zhaitan woke up more than a hundred years ago, and Primordus has been awake for more than two hundred. Kralkatorrik’s only been up for ten years.

Alga.6498:

Where’s he?? Why are he’s not destroying Tyria like the other dragons?
Is he chilling out at Blood Legion Homelands and wait till Primordus and Jormag finishes off each other?

>_<

More likely, the Crystal Desert (the Blood Legion Homelands is where he woke up, but he flew south from there)… or maybe somewhere beyond. Remember, Tyria’s only one continent in a fairly large world. Kralkatorrik could be destroying Elona, or the charr lands east of the Blazeridge Mountains, or some other place we’ve never heard of. Just because he’s not bothering us doesn’t mean he’s not bothering anyone.

Short synapsis:
Kralkatorrik wakes up shortly before the events of GW2 somewhere 5-10 years I think.
He flies south causing the Great Brand (a large purplish brand or scar on the world, leading all the way from north ascalon to the crystal desert)
Kralkatorrik had a fight with Destiny’s Edge in the northern regions of the Crystal Desert, which was a disaster > cue personal story.
Hereafter Kralkatorrik flew further south to Elona for whatever reason, where he is now in stalemate war with the No Life King Palawa Joko. Where he is exactly is just speculation, but propably between the Desolation and Fort Ebon. The guards of the walls of citadel Ebonhawke see no activity of branded or undead within close proximety, so he’s propably closer to the Desolation.

I enclosed a picture to get a rough idea of his movements. It’s not 100% accurate, but there are no details other than rough mentions.

quote=6544777;Alga.6498:

Where’s he?? Why are he’s not destroying Tyria like the other dragons?
Is he chilling out at Blood Legion Homelands and wait till Primordus and Jormag finishes off each other?

More likely, the Crystal Desert (the Blood Legion Homelands is where he woke up, but he flew south from there)… or maybe somewhere beyond. Remember, Tyria’s only one continent in a fairly large world. Kralkatorrik could be destroying Elona, or the charr lands east of the Blazeridge Mountains, or some other place we’ve never heard of. Just because he’s not bothering us doesn’t mean he’s not bothering anyone.

The elder dragons are not about destroying Tyria, they just move to wherever is a lot of magic to consume, and they will wage war or destroy anything in their path. Essentially, to them, we’re the leeches or parasites in the way of “their” magic, and what we consider destruction to them is just digging for food. They’re at the top of the food chain.. well. 2 of them were, and they’re acting like it

As others have stated, he only recently woke up and got into a near fatal fight with Destiny’s Edge shortly after waking. I believe he flew off south/SE ish and current whereabouts are unknown (to us anyway).

Amaimon: really? Palawa Joko can deadlock Kralk? Dude’s been hitting the gym since the days when my GW1 character busted him out of a wooden statue head.

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Amaimon: really? Palawa Joko can deadlock Kralk? Dude’s been hitting the gym since the days when my GW1 character busted him out of a wooden statue head.

I don’t think deadlocking means what you think it means.. or if it does, I don’t think you know the size difference between joko and kralka

Amaimon.7823:

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Amaimon: really? Palawa Joko can deadlock Kralk? Dude’s been hitting the gym since the days when my GW1 character busted him out of a wooden statue head.

I don’t think deadlocking means what you think it means.. or if it does, I don’t think you know the size difference between joko and kralka

I think he knows precisely what it means given the satirical tone of his comment fam

Djahlat.9610:

Amaimon.7823:

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Amaimon: really? Palawa Joko can deadlock Kralk? Dude’s been hitting the gym since the days when my GW1 character busted him out of a wooden statue head.

I don’t think deadlocking means what you think it means.. or if it does, I don’t think you know the size difference between joko and kralka

I think he knows precisely what it means given the satirical tone of his comment fam

On a serious note, though, I don’t know exactly how they are stalemate, but I can consider that Joko’s immortal army just keeps getting back up until the bodies are damages to a point of no repair, and kralkatorrik has an infinite supply of literally every living creature.. so they just pump out minions until one is exhausted

Amaimon.7823:

Djahlat.9610:

Amaimon.7823:

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Amaimon: really? Palawa Joko can deadlock Kralk? Dude’s been hitting the gym since the days when my GW1 character busted him out of a wooden statue head.

I don’t think deadlocking means what you think it means.. or if it does, I don’t think you know the size difference between joko and kralka

I think he knows precisely what it means given the satirical tone of his comment fam

On a serious note, though, I don’t know exactly how they are stalemate, but I can consider that Joko’s immortal army just keeps getting back up until the bodies are damages to a point of no repair, and kralkatorrik has an infinite supply of literally every living creature.. so they just pump out minions until one is exhausted

Makes sense, they would be engaged in a war of attrition against each other. And with Kralk potentially still recovering from Snaff, that could put the two armies on a more even footing potentially.

Moonyeti.3296:

Makes sense, they would be engaged in a war of attrition against each other. And with Kralk potentially still recovering from Snaff, that could put the two armies on a more even footing potentially.

STILL FIGHTING SNAFF!!!

Since folks already clarified on the waking status…

Amaimon.7823:

Hereafter Kralkatorrik flew further south to Elona for whatever reason, where he is now in stalemate war with the No Life King Palawa Joko. Where he is exactly is just speculation, but propably between the Desolation and Fort Ebon. The guards of the walls of Fort Ebon see now activity of branded or undead within close proximety, so he’s propably closer to the Desolation.

This is largely false.

Simply put, we don’t know where Kralkatorrik went, we only know that he went somewhere. Now, he did not fly north, west, or northwest. But he could have flown south, southeast, east, or even northeast. We simply do not know.

Second: there is no “Fort Ebon” – you’re thinking of Ebonhawke, which is indeed a fortified city, but isn’t a fortress by title.

And there’s not really any branded and definitely zero percent of undead near Ebonhawke.

That said, there has been zero indication that Joko and Kralkatorrik’s forces are battling. While plausible, the only dragon minions that Joko’s forces are known to have come into conflict with was Zhaitan’s forces.

Amaimon.7823:

The elder dragons are not about destroying Tyria, they just move to wherever is a lot of magic to consume, and they will wage war or destroy anything in their path. Essentially, to them, we’re the leeches or parasites in the way of “their” magic, and what we consider destruction to them is just digging for food. They’re at the top of the food chain.. well. 2 of them were, and they’re acting like it

Ehhhh, you’re both right and wrong here.

Yes, the Elder Dragons are not directly about “destroying Tyria”, but at the same time they are not directly about “consuming a lot of magic”, nor are they necessarily a “will wage war or destroy anything in their path to magic”.

Similarly, they do not see us as leeches or parasites – instead, to them, we’re just an alternative food source or a source for building an army. To the Elder Dragons, people are not enemies: they’re a resource to take control of.

Magic – like corrupting creatures – is merely a means to an end for them. And that end is different for each dragon. And also rather subtly presented to players. In Kralkatorrik’s case, his end goal seems to be “obtain everything, and destroy what he cannot obtain” based on the novel.

Kralkatorrik and Primordus appear to be the most destructive based dragons, while the others seem to be more about taking leadership. To summarize:

• As mentioned, Kralkatorrik is presented with the goal of “obtain everything and destroy what cannot be obtained”
• Primordus is presented with the goal of “global genocide” (the purpose of the Great Destroyer was to “destroy all surface life” in preparation for Primordus’ rise)
• Zhaitan was presented with the goal of wanting to lead an eternal kingdom
• Jormag is presented with the goal of wanting to be top dog in a world where “survival of the fittest” is rule
• Mordremoth was presented as wanting to replace the role of the world as the sustainer of life and have all life dependent on himself
  The DSD remains unknown, and can fall on either side (or neither side) of being a “enslaving dragon” or a “destructive dragon”.

Randulf.7614:

As others have stated, he only recently woke up and got into a near fatal fight with Destiny’s Edge shortly after waking. I believe he flew off south/SE ish and current whereabouts are unknown (to us anyway).

While Kralkatorrik was mere seconds from dying to the spear Rytlock held, Destiny’s Edge plan was more or less a “one shot kill” plan. The only physical damage that Kralkatorrik actually took during the battle was some small arrow scratches, some damage from Glint – neither of which slowed him down at all I might add – and the impact with sandy ground.

The biggest damage to Kralkatorrik, in the end, was Snaff’s invasion of his mind. But with Snaff’s death, that damage becomes nullified. Except, possibly, in long-term psychological trauma. Which would feel very, very weird.

Amaimon.7823:

On a serious note, though, I don’t know exactly how they are stalemate, but I can consider that Joko’s immortal army just keeps getting back up until the bodies are damages to a point of no repair, and kralkatorrik has an infinite supply of literally every living creature.. so they just pump out minions until one is exhausted

Kralkatorrik’s minions are far from infinite. You’re thinking of Primordus and Mordremoth, who created their own minions from the landscape itself. While The Shatterer and the branded elementals are created from the landscape, the majority of Kralkatorrik’s minions are corrupted creatures, like the risen and icebrood, which require a 1:1 conversion rate.

That said, undead would be corrupted into branded, and are far from immortal (undead fall apart rather easily), and half of Joko’s army are living humans (and probably centaurs).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Simply put, we don’t know where Kralkatorrik went, we only know that he went somewhere. Now, he did not fly north, west, or northwest. But he could have flown south, southeast, east, or even northeast. We simply do not know.

Well… it could be hiding out in Deldrimor Front. Most of the boundaries with the Deldrimor Front are occupied by enemy factions (the west, mostly by dredge; the east, by the Dragonbrand), so it’s plausible that Kralky could have flown northwest and established a territory in the Deldrimor Front region, we just haven’t heard about it because nothing’s gone far enough north to encounter the charr or norn yet – or anything that has has been assumed to have come from the Brand.

Broadly speaking, I think all of Jormag, Zhaitan and Mordremoth have/had god complexes. The differences are in their dogma. Zhaitan’s message is essentially one of eternal life through undeath. Mordremoth’s dogma is that it is the source of life. While Jormag’s dogma is that it is the ultimate predator, and that other hunters can become stronger and rise in the food chain by accepting Jormag as their alpha.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That said, undead would be corrupted into branded, and are far from immortal (undead fall apart rather easily), and half of Joko’s army are living humans (and probably centaurs).

I feel like this is only a halftruth. yes, a part of joko’s army are living creatures. but joko wasn’t born yesterday, he’d stop sending living creatures if they became branded. But they would only brand if kralkatorrik or a champion was there. And the undead fall apart rather easily, what are you basing that on? I don’t think we’ve encountered any elonian undead in GW2 or the books, and in gw1 they were pretty sturdy (or capable of good self-repairs)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Second: there is no “Fort Ebon” – you’re thinking of Ebonhawke, which is indeed a fortified city, but isn’t a fortress by title.

And there’s not really any branded and definitely zero percent of undead near Ebonhawke.

Semantics, I apologize, I was writing that half dozy, I just had the word fort and ebon in my mind.
And that there are no undead or branded near there was my argument for the case they were much more south. if they were fighting closer to Ebonhawke the scouts would’ve seen them.

I do really like the idea of Palawa Joko being a significant force in opposition to Kralk, because it would continue his role from GW1 of a guy who is clearly Bad News Bears but whom the player character has no choice but to deal with anyway (last time it was for his incredible ancient wisdom of “lure a sandworm out and smack it around some and then you can ride it”). Considering he now has an entire continent in his stranglehold, though, maybe this time we’ll be ignoble enough to double-cross him and take him down.

Amaimon.7823:

I feel like this is only a halftruth. yes, a part of joko’s army are living creatures. but joko wasn’t born yesterday, he’d stop sending living creatures if they became branded. But they would only brand if kralkatorrik or a champion was there. And the undead fall apart rather easily, what are you basing that on? I don’t think we’ve encountered any elonian undead in GW2 or the books, and in gw1 they were pretty sturdy (or capable of good self-repairs)

On the first part:

Non-champions can spread corruption as well, it’s simply that dragon champions spread corruption faster. And undead should be capable of becoming branded as well (there’s no reason why they couldn’t).

So both halves of his army are vulnerable to corruption, and at any point in time. Furthermore, if he was actively fighting a dragon army there would be multiple dragon champions present. Especially if Kralkatorrik is present in the area.

On the second part: I’m basing that on the fact that they have no natural healing state, will continue to rot unless preserved by magic, and most importantly: they’re not hard to kill in GW1. They, in fact, had a hard time of things against most other forces. The main reason Joko had such an advantage both times he launched an invasion (if not only reason for the first assault) is because he constantly replenished his forces with the fallen enemies.

Amaimon.7823:

And that there are no undead or branded near there was my argument for the case they were much more south. if they were fighting closer to Ebonhawke the scouts would’ve seen them.

Might want to fix your wording then, because you wrote that they do see fighting between undead and branded.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Amaimon.7823:

I feel like this is only a halftruth. yes, a part of joko’s army are living creatures. but joko wasn’t born yesterday, he’d stop sending living creatures if they became branded. But they would only brand if kralkatorrik or a champion was there. And the undead fall apart rather easily, what are you basing that on? I don’t think we’ve encountered any elonian undead in GW2 or the books, and in gw1 they were pretty sturdy (or capable of good self-repairs)

On the first part:

Non-champions can spread corruption as well, it’s simply that dragon champions spread corruption faster. And undead should be capable of becoming branded as well (there’s no reason why they couldn’t).

There’s indeed no reason why they couldn’t, but also no reason why they would. There are no ingame examples, or in the books, of undeads becoming dragon minions. The only undeads besides ghosts I’ve seen so far are all already Zhaitan’s. And we have never fully established whether or not dragon minions can corrupt one another’s minions. So there’s really no way of knowing whether undead can be branded or not. And whether it’s easy to brand a creature who fights back. If kralkatorrik was fighting personally, or a champion, they’d propably brand them by the dozens, but I honestly doubt a lowly branded can brand another if it fights back.

Amaimon.7823:

There’s indeed no reason why they couldn’t, but also no reason why they would. There are no ingame examples, or in the books, of undeads becoming dragon minions. The only undeads besides ghosts I’ve seen so far are all already Zhaitan’s. And we have never fully established whether or not dragon minions can corrupt one another’s minions. So there’s really no way of knowing whether undead can be branded or not. And whether it’s easy to brand a creature who fights back. If kralkatorrik was fighting personally, or a champion, they’d propably brand them by the dozens, but I honestly doubt a lowly branded can brand another if it fights back.

It honestly seems quite natural for undead to fall into something that the elder dragons can corrupt. I think Konig and others have already established that Risen are not undead, so considering that separation, it seems quite logical that elder dragons, who can corrupt everything from living creatures, plants, elementals and the very ground itself, would be able to corrupt undead. There’s no reason to think that undead are immune to dragon corruption (in fact the only thing that HAS been mentioned as being immune to dragon corruption is the magic of the forgotten, which has ties to divnity). Just because the corruption of Zhaitan mimics the behaviour of necromancy, does not make it necromancy.

Besides, we know that the sylvari are immune to the corruption of elder dragons, and they’re purified dragon minions, so we have some confirmation that elder dragon minions can be immune to other forms of elder dragon corruption. I specify some because the Sylvari have the protection of the Dream, which is the product of Mordremoth. As far as I know, we don’t have info on, say, an attempted corruption of a Destroyer by a Branded or Kralk.

Also, considering an object in the human personal story was emanating low amounts of Zhaitan’s corruption, which in turn corrupted those near the object, it seems logical that a minion could corrupt someone else over time (as long as the minion wasn’t destroyed or the being killed by the minion).

Ember Bay has Destroyers altered by plant and death energy, respectively, and there’s that misbegotten icebrood in the Bitterfrost story that is both weakened by having other dragon energies mixed up in it, and vulnerable to explosions of the same. The Dragons have never died before that we know of – we’re still learning the effects of their huge magic reservoirs bursting open onto the world.

I wonder how a Dragon compares with a Bloodstone, in terms of magnitude?

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

I wonder how a Dragon compares with a Bloodstone, in terms of magnitude?

From what we’re told? Very favorably. This fella says that there wasn’t much magic left to put in the original Stone, so it stands to reason* that a ‘tiny bit’ divided by five is significantly smaller than all the rest divided by six.

*This does become a weaker argument if you suspect, as many do, that the bloodstones now hold more magic than the original artifact did when the Seers made it, but I believe the conclusion still holds true.

Amaimon.7823:

Short synapsis:
Kralkatorrik wakes up shortly before the events of GW2 somewhere 5-10 years I think.
He flies south causing the Great Brand (a large purplish brand or scar on the world, leading all the way from north ascalon to the crystal desert)
Kralkatorrik had a fight with Destiny’s Edge in the northern regions of the Crystal Desert, which was a disaster > cue personal story.
Hereafter Kralkatorrik flew further south to Elona for whatever reason, where he is now in stalemate war with the No Life King Palawa Joko. Where he is exactly is just speculation, but propably between the Desolation and Fort Ebon. The guards of the walls of citadel Ebonhawke see no activity of branded or undead within close proximety, so he’s propably closer to the Desolation.

I enclosed a picture to get a rough idea of his movements. It’s not 100% accurate, but there are no details other than rough mentions.

Woh, just how powerful is Palawa Joko to be in a STALEMATE with an Elder Dragon?!! :O

Ngeluz.4860:

Woh, just how powerful is Palawa Joko to be in a STALEMATE with an Elder Dragon?!! :O

Well, Joko does have the resources of the entirety of Elona…

Mind you, we don’t know how much Zhaitan committed to the front with Palawa Joko. Zhaitan might never have considered that front enough of a priority to throw any significant fraction of his strength into breaking that stalemate.

Amaimon.7823:

There’s indeed no reason why they couldn’t, but also no reason why they would. There are no ingame examples, or in the books, of undeads becoming dragon minions.

That’s because we don’t see any undead in game or in the books. Closest thing we get are necromancer minions.

Amaimon.7823:

The only undeads besides ghosts I’ve seen so far are all already Zhaitan’s. And we have never fully established whether or not dragon minions can corrupt one another’s minions.

Aside from the fact that risen are not, technically, undead but merely resemble them in both appearance and the common method of risen being made, we have rather established the situation with multiple dragon corruption.

Sylvari immunity is implied (to the point where it’s all but explicitly stated) to be what prevents corruption, while we have situations like Subject Alpha, Kudu’s Monster, and most importantly: the plant/death destroyers and unstable icebrood abomination, all of which are cases of multiple corruptions in a single minion.

While folks argue that the former two are “not natural”, all the Inquest did was expose individuals to dragon energy – in other words, they did nothing an Elder Dragon couldn’t do.

But all the same, Joko’s undead are not dragon minions, so this isn’t even on topic.

Amaimon.7823:

So there’s really no way of knowing whether undead can be branded or not. And whether it’s easy to brand a creature who fights back. If kralkatorrik was fighting personally, or a champion, they’d propably brand them by the dozens, but I honestly doubt a lowly branded can brand another if it fights back.

We actually see fighters being corrupted by the very environment in Iron Marches, and we’re told that the lightning strikes of the Brandstorm can corrupt, IIRC.

And there’s no reason to believe that undead cannot be corrupted – after all, the branded are all physical things corrupted in the end, and we see some corpses corrupted by icebrood and branded; and in the end, what is an undead but a moving corpse…