Guild Wars 2

Is it contradictory of Elder Dragon lore to give kralk a personal vendetta (Glint)? These dragons are supposed to be forces of nature with no particular agenda. I’m wondering how we are to perceive the dragons since the world has taken an interest in seeing them destroyed, rather than going full on defense and wait out the storm that they are.

The Elder Dragons are not mindless. While the races of Tyria perceive them to be like forces of nature, this is just because the races don’t know of the Elder Dragons’ true nature – they’re that mysterious, distant, and powerful. ArenaNet tends to explain them in that fashion as well because they want to emphasize this mysteriousness to the Elder Dragons so they explain them in the perspective of the races in most cases.

There is no waiting out the Elder Dragons – they rise, they devour until they can devour no more, and they go into hibernation. There are hints to show that they don’t naturally go into hibernation, but do so when they’re starved and weakened but not defeated (or are defeated but not killed). The only way to wait the Elder Dragons out would be to eliminate or contain all magic in the world and go into hiding so that they cannot be found – just like what the races did during the previous rise since they couldn’t defeat the Elder Dragons due to being solely reliant on magic.

Thanks for the response. I guess I’m just not really thrilled with the way the dragons are being protrayed. The combination of Zhaitan being severely underwhelming, a weak personal story, and no content driving the dragons’ story in the world after personal story, kind of painted a picture in me mind mind that the dragons aren’t much to feel threatened about. Hopefully we see some more relevent content with the culmination of all these living stories.

They’re meant to be presented as a “distant lingering threat” – not an imminent and overbearing one like most games have for their antagonists. So I think that bit fits them well. Though ArenaNet didn’t do certain parts of the game’s storytelling right, I think the whole idea of “the Elder Dragons may not be a huge threat right now” I think was done right… except for the fight with Zhaitan.

Though perhaps a little more struggle in the personal story during the invasion of Orr would have been good… and fewer NPCs dying with more chances of old NPCs you’ve met returning (as opposed to old NPCs that you might have met returning… and dying).

Currently we simply do not know what the agenda is of each Elder Dragon. I have no idea if it will be revealed at all at some point. But we know they do have feelings. Feelings of revenge at least. Also notice how whenever you do something against a particular dragon (like Jormag) you can hear it’s roar in the distance.

They’re just kitten ed off about justin biever’s continued existence and nicki minaj putting out more crap songs :/ can you blame the whole genocide business?I’m with the dragons on this one,sorry Tyria.

Xkyline.5267:

They’re just kitten ed off about justin biever’s continued existence and nicki minaj putting out more crap songs :/ can you blame the whole genocide business?I’m with the dragons on this one,sorry Tyria.

What was their problem 11.000 years ago then?
Cher? Badum tish

;D

Ants….that’s how a dragon see’s us. No more no less. We are beneath them even using one brain sell on us….until we killed Zhaitan that is. Now who knows whats gonna happen!?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Elder Dragons are not mindless. While the races of Tyria perceive them to be like forces of nature, this is just because the races don’t know of the Elder Dragons’ true nature – they’re that mysterious, distant, and powerful. ArenaNet tends to explain them in that fashion as well because they want to emphasize this mysteriousness to the Elder Dragons so they explain them in the perspective of the races in most cases.

There is no waiting out the Elder Dragons – they rise, they devour until they can devour no more, and they go into hibernation. There are hints to show that they don’t naturally go into hibernation, but do so when they’re starved and weakened but not defeated (or are defeated but not killed). The only way to wait the Elder Dragons out would be to eliminate or contain all magic in the world and go into hiding so that they cannot be found – just like what the races did during the previous rise since they couldn’t defeat the Elder Dragons due to being solely reliant on magic.

I sure hope what you say about them not being mindless is true. With that whole “they are similar to a natural disaster” is like anet saying lets completely gut the personality of our main villains.

Singer.8740:

Ants….that’s how a dragon see’s us. No more no less. We are beneath them even using one brain sell on us….until we killed Zhaitan that is. Now who knows whats gonna happen!?

Wow, interesting. I hope they go with something like this.

Evans.6347:

Xkyline.5267:

They’re just kitten ed off about justin biever’s continued existence and nicki minaj putting out more crap songs :/ can you blame the whole genocide business?I’m with the dragons on this one,sorry Tyria.

What was their problem 11.000 years ago then?
Cher? Badum tish

;D

Dragons were studying calculus and trigonometry when humans were still eating stones and drawing hentai on cave walls man :/ they probably have better foresight to try and avoid something like this

One thing that intrigues me the most with GW2 are the portrayal of Dragons being these massive, overwhelming beings that are practically unstoppable. Why doesn’t Anet play more into this?

The Elder Dragons should be mentioned more, or at least content hinting to fighting them, or anything. I find Primordus the most interesting and just fighting the lieutenants that are hardly a challenge (extremely boring to fight) is becoming a chore.

If they were given flying paths, or having them move from location to location instead of just standing in one spot the entire battle (Minus Claw) then maybe having to wait for more dragon additions to the game would be okay.

I don’t know much about the lore behind Guild Wars, and Warhammer has always been the only universe I took heavy interest in reading about. From what I’ve read up on Guild Wars, little as is it.. very, very interesting. Sometimes quite deep and heavy with atmosphere.

The problem with Guild Wars LORE seems to be the many, small, loose ends.

But on topic: Primordus is by far the most interesting dragon for me as well. I have super outlandish expectations that the Thaumanova research will somehow put him into the story. I’m hoping the underground exploration goes into Dwarven/Destroyer lore but my hopes are too high I think.

If we get more dredge along with the Inquest I’m going to lose my mind.

There really is a lot of extremely interesting lore that I feel is almost never touched upon, and the Dwarven, Destroyers, and Primordus are so intriguing. After a while the Undead just get really boring.

I don’t know too much about the lore, but I’m willing to know more. Nothing has really intrigued me as much as Warhammer universe, so… me being just as interested as I was with Warhammer, and now Guild Wars? this is a huge deal for me.

I thought this would be a place where we would discuss how to kill Kraggy. Motivation is obvious: Revenge for Snaff. We are all commanders of the pact now, how should we approach/fight Kraggy aka the flying mountain?

kralk is the next logical step simply because the pact armada is closer to him, and he may or may not be fully healed yet. he’s also the most recent awakening, so he had less time to build up strength, as it seems dragons “charge up” with time as they consume, rather than getting worn out from extensive exercise/magic/whatever. which in turn means that kralk is as weak as he’ll ever be.

more importantly, we took down one dragon, and know how to take down kralk. dragon hurts dragon, like pokemon, and we just so happen to have a surplus of dragon with zhaitan being dead and, if we can get their cooperation, zephyrites use dragon magic.

Well my initial post was questioning why the dragons, given their nature, would have the capacity to harbor revenge in the first place, but this thread has provided good info. Keep the discussion going though!

BrunoBRS.5178:

kralk is the next logical step simply because the pact armada is closer to him, and he may or may not be fully healed yet. he’s also the most recent awakening, so he had less time to build up strength, as it seems dragons “charge up” with time as they consume, rather than getting worn out from extensive exercise/magic/whatever. which in turn means that kralk is as weak as he’ll ever be.

Problem is:

Where in the world is Kralkatorrik?

He fled off from the battle, no dragonbrand following him, so he’s not at the end of the Dragonbrand (which was the battle and I’d love to go see). So where is this dragon that’s made no noticable actions in the past now-six years?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BrunoBRS.5178:

kralk is the next logical step simply because the pact armada is closer to him, and he may or may not be fully healed yet. he’s also the most recent awakening, so he had less time to build up strength, as it seems dragons “charge up” with time as they consume, rather than getting worn out from extensive exercise/magic/whatever. which in turn means that kralk is as weak as he’ll ever be.

Problem is:

Where in the world is Kralkatorrik?

He fled off from the battle, no dragonbrand following him, so he’s not at the end of the Dragonbrand (which was the battle and I’d love to go see). So where is this dragon that’s made no noticable actions in the past now-six years?

sitting somewhere in the crystal desert’s brand, of course. it’s a much smaller area to cover than orr, so it can’t be THAT hard to find him.

if he had left it back north, ebonhawke would’ve noticed, so worst case scenario he went to elona, which would mean going through the desolation, and i can’t help but wonder what happens to a dragon in the desolation.

Or he went east off the map to south of the Blood Legion lands there.

Or he went southeast into Dzalana.

Or he went a bit west or a bit south remaining in the Crystal Desert but in a completely different area.

As I said, he did not remain where the battle took place – e.g., where the Dragonbrand is – and he did not leave a noticable trail as he fled. He may have made such later, but not when last seen in Edge of Destiny. Where Kralkatorrik can be is much larger than the size of Orr (though we already knew that Zhaitan made his little “throne” in Arah).

As for the postulation of what happens to a dragon in the desolation – probably nothing now. Remember that Joko flooded it, so it returned to its formerly verdant state (before Abaddon’s fall, it was verdant apparently according to two lines in Nightfall). Not only that, but whatever sulfur may remain – or even the amount of GW1 – probably wouldn’t be enough toxins to harm a creature as massive as Kralkatorrik unless it had prolonged exposure (and then there’s the fact that not all creatures are harmed by the sulfurous haze, such as wurms and demons).

IIRC, wherever he goes, he leaves a branded trail, so at the very least we’d have an idea of where he is not. i don’t see him going west, because that’s where zhaitan rules (ruled). north/northwest, and he’d be spotted. south, southwest, or southeast, and he’d be on elona. so either he’s still on the desert, or he left a huge, obvious breadcrumb trail to his new hideout.

he didn’t stay at the location of the fight, obviously, but look at the size of the brand there. it covers an area comparable to half of explorable orr. he could very well be hiding somewhere in there.

as for the desolation, i was mostly talking because of all the history it has, including but not limited to a huge kitten portal to the realm of torment. even if the portal was closed and the region flooded, that place is one magic flying iguana away from bursting with magic everywhere.

Except that he doesn’t leave a branded trail wherever he goes. Go and pick up Edge of Destiny and read the battle and his retreat again.

Creating the Dragonbrand is not passive. He actively made it. During the battle with Destiny’s Edge/Glint, he only branded in portions and was not branding when he fled.

And he’s pretty huge enough that he would have been seen if he remained in the area which he branded – which is not as large as you claim TBH. He certainly would have seen that Destiny’s Edge was broken and would have attacked again when they weren’t expecting if he remained in the area. But he didn’t remain in the area – it’s obvious he left to being out of sight and the only influence he had as he fled was the wind pressure made by moving his wings and affecting the clouds a bit. No branding.

And the Desolation is no more saturated in magic than the Crystal Desert, truth be told.

For all intents in purposes, Kralkatorrik “could” be at the end of the Dragonbrand. No one has proof that he didn’t return when his enemies left. That said it is as much speculation as anywhere else mentioned in this topic. Heck, if they scared him enough he might be well past the blood legion lands all the way in the east. I mean who knows what goes through the mind of an “eternal being” when they look death straight in the eye (and it looks like Rytlock, lol). That being said, Mouth of Torment and Tomb of Primeval Kings are both great places to gain access to magic. I mean I would personally see the mists themselves as a large source of magic which seems to have some sentience (creating and destroying what it sees), what about that wouldn’t seem delectable to an Elder Dragon. Nothing we’ve seen so far points to any other race having the ability to travel through portals into the Mists (the mursaat ability did not appear to use portals, mainly just shifting your own body out into another state), thus this may be the first time for EDs to get that access either. There is a lot of stuff ArenaNet could do there (either through Kralky or Jormy).

The one thing we can probably say is he didnt seem to come back to Glint’s Lair. After all, from the journal of the Zephyrites, the battlefield and Glint’s body had been abandoned. There discription also didnt really sound like there was branded activity in the area suggesting that Kralkatorik took his feasting elsewhere.

On the journal, iirc, they only went to Glint’s body and Glint’s corpse fell quite some distance from her lair (and thus perhaps the branded area). Though true, no mention of Kralkatorrik or the Branded there.

Plus, I’d think that Glint’s corpse would be a buffet for Kralkatorrik if he simply returned then left.

iirc Caithe was wandering the Dragonbrand post-battle, collecting the crystalline drops of green blood left by a wounded Kralkatorrik. This seems to suggest he flew back north, most likely making a detour somewhere before Ebonhawke or he would have been spotted.

The way the book words it makes it sound like he was bleeding on his path down south. To me at least.

The Branded are constantly moving south (and, iirc, east though less so), so it stands to reason that Kralkatorrik didn’t move back up and they’re heading to Kralkatorrik.

If he was bleeding on his way down south then that implies he had a wound before hibernating that didn’t heal for 11 thousand years. We know for sure he was wounded after facing Destiny’s Edge (bajillion exploding arrows to the face). As for the Branded moving south, they’re doing so at the Steeleye Span, which is still north of Ebonhawke. What I’m suggesting is that Kralkatorrik flew north away from Glint’s lair after killing her before taking a detour in some unknown direction (most likely east) to recuperate from his wounds and get some dragon takeout or something. After all, revenge was the only reason he flew south in the first place, it’s possible if Glint wasn’t there at the time he would have gone in a completely different direction without that bit of business to take care of.

SpeedFiend.4521:

If he was bleeding on his way down south then that implies he had a wound before hibernating that didn’t heal for 11 thousand years. We know for sure he was wounded after facing Destiny’s Edge (bajillion exploding arrows to the face). As for the Branded moving south, they’re doing so at the Steeleye Span, which is still north of Ebonhawke. What I’m suggesting is that Kralkatorrik flew north away from Glint’s lair after killing her before taking a detour in some unknown direction (most likely east) to recuperate from his wounds and get some dragon takeout or something. After all, revenge was the only reason he flew south in the first place, it’s possible if Glint wasn’t there at the time he would have gone in a completely different direction without that bit of business to take care of.

if he flew north, it wasn’t much, because kralk never crossed ebonhawke again (unless he learned to be stealthy)

It’s possible that Kralkatorrik was wounded in hibernation. I mean, the charr aren’t exactly environmentally friendly and they thought he was an odd mountain.

Of course, it’s never said where Caithe is in the Dragonbrand. She could be in the southern reaches at that point.