Guild Wars 2

Ok, I understand that the waters flooded LA, blah, blah, blah. What I guess I don’t understand is how area names an places that were not flooded changed. I’ve don’t some Googling and wiki-ing but I guess I am not clear on some Kryta name changes.

Maybe there isn’t an explanation yet for some of these changes.

I know names change and I am pretty bad with map comparisons but can anyone tell me what happened to and are we just not able to access them yet:

The Black Curtain
Talmark Wilderness
Bergen Hot Springs
Cursed Lands
Watchtower Coast
Tears of the Fallen
Stingray Strand
Fisherman’s Haven
D’Alessio Seaboard

Is there somewhere that compares the two maps?

Try this link out. It lays GW1 locations on the GW2 map and you can get some ideas about where things are and see how some names changed some.

http://zoom.it/cw31d

As for name changes I am not sure.

The Black Curtain was the area containing Godslost Swamp (renamed due to the flooding of the Temple of the Ages as well as the silencing of the gods), and bordering areas to the east, west, and south.

Talmark Wilderness is (mostly) off of the map, though part of it is seen – I believe – in Claypool, Fort Salma, and the areas between there and around. But it’d be only the easternmost part of Talmark Wilderness. Why it was renamed? Well, it doesn’t seem to be wilderness anymore.

Bergen Hot Springs is a good question. I suspect that it was where Melandru’s Cantoh is now (they share the same shape, and match roughly the same location, though the latter leads into a cave now). Alternatively, it could be where The Lawen Ponds are, which if so means the place was flooded into a swamp.

Cursed Lands were likely called such because they were littered with undead. In GW2’s time, this would likely be where Salma’s Hearth, Orlaf Encampment, and/or Taminn Foothills are. Hard to tell due to the change in topography.

Watchtower Coast would be where Eastern Divinity’s Dam and the northern Queen’s Forest is – likely renamed because it’s no longer a coast, though the Queen’s Forest may have always had that separate name.

Tears of the Fallen would be Viath Shore primarily. The name is likely only a change for us players, imo, as Viath Shore makes more sense.

Stingray Strand would be the coast of Caledon Forest – primarily Quetzal Bay. Given the name, it was likely renamed after the Quetzal tengu when the Dominion of Winds was made. It’d also include other areas, likely named by sylvari given what we see.

Fisherman’s Haven likely became Kraitbane Haven. The renaming should be obvious when you look at the surroundings – it’s no longer a haven for fishermen, thanks to all the krait that migrated into the waters.

D’Alessio Seaboard is off the map, that nice little foggy area west of Lion’s Arch. Whether it retained its name or not is unknown but unlikely given the hate on White Mantle, and the misconception of Saul being evil seen during the War in Kryta.

There’s quite a lot of places that made comparison maps, though I don’t remember where beyond “on reddit.” (Edit: Ninja’d by Hjorje)

As far as why the names changed, a possible reason is that much of Kryta has changed hands. The humans abandoned not only Lion’s Arch, but most of the southern half of the kingdom. The sylvari/tengu now living there would have made their own names for the places.

Non-lore wise, it is mostly because this is a different game. Anet took most of the major places from Guild Wars 1 and put them in the same spots in Guild Wars 2, but pretty much everything in between is completely different. The watchtowers of Watchtower Coast, the mysterious ruins in Arbor Bay, Beacon’s Perch, Fort Ranik, Surmia, all of the Stone Summit’s architecture, all absent from Guild Wars 2 without explanation. Development-wise, this makes sense. Guild Wars 2 is a new game, after all, and a balance had to be struck between the old and new. Remaking all of the areas exactly as they were would not have been feasible.

More confusing are the places from Guild Wars 1 that were made entirely different in Guild Wars 2. For instance, the Temple of Grenth is still around, but all the architecture has vanished and the statue has been remade- all without a word of explanation.

Hjorje.9453:

Try this link out. It lays GW1 locations on the GW2 map and you can get some ideas about where things are and see how some names changed some.

http://zoom.it/cw31d

As for name changes I am not sure.

Thanks bud! That was great. Love the comparative map. But what it really did was just bring up more questions. A lot of the ones I asked about are there and we have access to them, but no ruins or anything? No mention of them? I know that towns and places vanish with time, but in the almost 250 years the U.S. has been in existence, there are more places than not that are still around that were there then. And those that are not, usually have some kind of indication of their passing.

So Riverside Province is just a road now?
Arachni’s Haunt is a warf?
Vlox’s Falls is a swamp?
Etc., etc., etc.

I agree, seeing where things are from GW1 on a GW2 brings up a lot of questions. Konig has done a good job on coming up with some ideas on the name changes and I agree with most of them.

As for no ruins in some of them, you have to remember some of those places in GW1 were only wooden structures, which 250 years is plenty of time for them to be gone without a trace. But most areas match up good with either some ruins or a new settlement on top of them.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Non-lore wise, it is mostly because this is a different game. Anet took most of the major places from Guild Wars 1 and put them in the same spots in Guild Wars 2, but pretty much everything in between is completely different. The watchtowers of Watchtower Coast, the mysterious ruins in Arbor Bay, Beacon’s Perch, Fort Ranik, Surmia, all of the Stone Summit’s architecture, all absent from Guild Wars 2 without explanation.

Yes it is a different game, but built off the foundation of the first game. I know this isn’t real life, but many of those places and names are just mysteriously gone with no trace?

Konig had some great explanations for some of them, but others places are just stupefying. I know we can speculate as to what happened, but in game there should at least be some physical evidence of the places that were once there.

Droknar’s Forge for heaven’s sake! It was one of the major cities. Climate change or not, now it is a little camp with no evidence of it’s large, Euro-influenced, STONE structures? I just don’t by it. Stone doesn’t deteriorate in 250 years. Same with the little places like Camp Rankor and Port Sledge.

Stuff like this is just infuriating and frustrating to me. I really couldn’t wait to see what they would do with these places. I sure was not expecting a majority of them to become invisible or inconsequential after 250 years.

Yeah… I was hoping at least one of the cities would be built off of and expanded… Instead they destroyed it all and left ruins for people to find, if that. And no, LA doesn’t count because they just sunk the original city, they didn’t integrate it with everything else.

Drok’s is still there. It sank, and quaggans are living there now, but it is surprisingly intact and easily recognizable. The piers from Port Sledge are still there too- that place didn’t have much in the way of architecture. Rankor, while crumbling, is if anything bigger than it was in GW1

Narcemus, what about Rata Sum?

Rata Sum is a name transferred to an absolutely new city. If you look on the most credible GW1-GW2 maps you’ll notice that the floating city isn’t even near the location of the original ruins. It is closer to the location of Arachni’s Haunt and Oola’s lab, sitting on top of the river there. I’m talking about a city that has survived, that some of it’s older structures are still around, but they have been integrated with new structures as well. Think like most any italian city. What bothers me is that instead of integrating old with new (which is hard, but the reward can be great) they destroyed the old and built new on top of it.

jheryn.8390:

So Riverside Province is just a road now?
Arachni’s Haunt is a warf?
Vlox’s Falls is a swamp?
Etc., etc., etc.

After the flooding the area called Riverside Province was left by humans and became a dense forest. When the silvari wakened they took it as their own.

The road was made by the lion guard to make commerce with the Asura and later the Silvari.

You can still find parts of the ruins of the temple of the unseen there, though it is hard to recognise it due to the jungle..

Vlox falls isn’t a swamp, but more like a salt water mangrove forest, small difference, but still.

The entrance to Arachni’s haunt is now closed of and indeed on top of it they build a harbor

Also keep in mind that the zoom it map has a few mistakes (two searing crystals in pockmark flats??)

-edit- just want to go on on the places named in the original location:

The Black Curtain – This area had as mentioned also some serious flooding. Also keep in mind it is the name of a map and for reasons different then lore the map borders has changed. this name might still be used for the area buy the people who live there, but is currently not in use in the game.

Talmark Wilderness – See black curtain
Bergen Hot Springs – currently this area is not explorable, so how it looks now is unsure. We only know that the valley directly to the north of it is now a swamp. The amount of risen in it idnicates a connection to the coast.

Cursed Lands – See Black curtain. This area actually goes into three maps and a lot of it is covered by new mapborders.

Watchtower Coast – Casue of the build of the east-divinity dam this once coastal area now is mostly farmland, with the a lake at the bottom of the dam. the watchtowers have been demolished, sheamore became a farmland for divinity’s and the coast is pushed north. All reason to change the name to Queensdale (wich also includes the parts of aother maps)

Tears of the Fallen – The humans left here and keep it from cultivation, the jungle round it grew and the lakes became a swamp (prolly plant material dropping in). When the nightmare court grew bigger this became their home.

Stingray Strand – I believe the zoomit makitten lightly wrong here. It was allready a coastal area, the coast has come more inland and this is mostly the water at the north-eastern side of caldon forest now.

Fisherman’s Haven – See stingray strand, this is either Krait or Quaggan territory now and has been udnerwater for a long time now.

D’Alessio Seaboard – mostly in an underwater flooded area now. unexplored map in gw2, so no idea.

I would actually disagree with the map. In GW1 the entrance to Arachni’s Haunt was located on the opposite side of the river.

Hrrrmn. compares Yeah, the old location of Rata Sum is about where Soren Draa is now, using the location of the old G.O.L.E.M.-works as a landmark. That said, the asura probably would regard it as an expansion of the same city – Soren Draa is basically the outskirts of modern Rata Sum (much like Shaemoor for Divinity’s, Applenook for LA, Smokestead for the Black Citadel, and Astorea for the Grove), and from the asura perspective, they’d likely regard “old” Rata Sum as being where they lived until they finished building the real Rata Sum.

One could, similarly, regard DR as an expansion of Shaemoor – but instead of building on top of and around the initial settlement as cities tend to, it was built just to the north. Maybe it’s because the Krytans were aware of the value of good farmland and, unlike many real-world cities, had the presence of mind not to build the city on top of the most arable land.

jheryn.8390:

Droknar’s Forge for heaven’s sake! It was one of the major cities. Climate change or not, now it is a little camp with no evidence of it’s large, Euro-influenced, STONE structures? I just don’t by it. Stone doesn’t deteriorate in 250 years. Same with the little places like Camp Rankor and Port Sledge.

Port Sledge was mostly wood, actually, so it’s reasonable to have gone away. And Camp Rankor is still there, with a full event chain to the ruins – probably the largest above-ground/water dwarven ruins in the game, actually. But for Droknar’s Forge, it’s now all underwater. Pretty well done, actually, as I was able to recognize the landscape. It’s all – or mostly – there.

How it went from being on a cliff to being underwater is beyond me though. And why it got renamed to “Droknah” is also weird. Apparently dwarves went with slang before disappearing.

draxynnic.3719:

Hrrrmn. compares Yeah, the old location of Rata Sum is about where Soren Draa is now, using the location of the old G.O.L.E.M.-works as a landmark. That said, the asura probably would regard it as an expansion of the same city – Soren Draa is basically the outskirts of modern Rata Sum (much like Shaemoor for Divinity’s, Applenook for LA, Smokestead for the Black Citadel, and Astorea for the Grove), and from the asura perspective, they’d likely regard “old” Rata Sum as being where they lived until they finished building the real Rata Sum.

There’s idle dialogue in one of the Hinterlabs about Soren Draa, actually.

It is the only place outside Rata Sum “proper” (for lack of a better word) which is under the Arcane Council’s jurisdiction. I wouldn’t say Shaemoor is part of DR, or Applenook is part of LA or the like, but Soren Draa is, in lore, part of Rata Sum. And it does seem to be where Rata Sum was in GW1.

“Droknah” might be the fault of the quaggans now inhabiting the ruins. From what I’ve seen of quagganese, they tend not to have ’r’s on the ends (or starts) of words or long ’r’s in general. It might be that the quaggans have problems pronouncing the ‘r’ at the end of ‘Droknar’, and just ended up dropping it.

I don’t recall any Quaggans in the Droknar ruins…

I do. They’re not actually inhabiting the ruins themselves, but there is a quaggan village in there – a bit to the southeast of the skill point, if I remember rightly.

Yes, I remember the quaggan near there as well. This was the reason I first accepted the name change.

I am grateful for a lot of the explanations, but it still perplexes me that all of these places, in effect, have disappeared or destroyed or abandoned to ruin. I would have been just as easy to let some of these places still exist as to create new ones.

Beetletun looks nothing like Beetletun in GW1, but it is still there. The wide spread demolishing of places from GW1 is just sloppy and even unwise on Anet’s part IMHO. For those of us nostalgic for the first game looking for some familiarity, it would have been a great way to draw us in and make us feel like “There’s the game we loved so much.” For those that are new to the Guild Wars franchise it may have even been a way for them to be curious about GW lore and locations. It would also cause them to question what they are seeing and get more involved with the community and ask questions. I think Anet missed a huge opportunity in not incorporating thriving places found in GW1 instead of destroying them or neglecting them.

I’ll admit, I miss many of these places, small and large, and am sorely disappointed that they are just footnotes in many ways.

A couple of quick points:

@mercury – I was just making a point about Vlox’s Falls. My point that it is underwater. I just called it a swamp for brevity’s sake. Still it is just gone with no real explanation or clue.

@Konig (and the rest who pointed it out). Thanks for telling me about Droknar’s Forge. I had never looked there really. I’m glad they just didn’t dismiss it. Like Konig explained, however, it was on a freaking snow covered cliff. How does it go from that to mostly intact and under water? Is there any wonder I missed it? Even if the cliff side would have fallen, there is no way the city would have remained standing.

Well, if memory serves me right, Droknah’s Forge is still on a cliff like Droknar’s Forge was. And the surrounding high peaks now make what go above land.

So like how old Lion’s Arch “sunk” yet is in the same placement, it seems elsewhere the water levels simply “rose” to odd amounts (though if they rose to the level of Droknar’s Forge, one would expect that most of Tyria would become rather Waterworld looking.

There clearly has been a distinct raising of the sea level, although it has to be said that ArenaNet hasn’t exactly been consistent in how much that raising is (for instance, we’re expected to believe that the Port Sledge site somehow survived when the Forge went underwater). That said, on investigating on returning to GW1, the Forge actually isn’t that much above the local sea (well, ice) level – it’s possible in one spot to go right down to the waterline, and the entire explorable area probably isn’t more than a dozen metres or so above sea level. What’s hard to believe isn’t that Droknar’s Forge is underwater – with how deep old Lion’s Arch is (I’d estimate about twenty metres), the Forge actually would be mostly or entirely underwater too – it’s that the majority of Whitman’s Folly isn’t also underwater.

In terms of returning to old places that have been developed – there are quite a few in Kryta. Ascalon Settlement, Nebo, Beetletun, and Shaemoor all definitely qualify, and you can find Yak’s Bend in Frostgorge..

To those complaining about displacement or stuff being under water.

A couple of points to consider.

1 – First and foremost its a fantasy game.
2 – Even the drastic changes that have been made involved processes analogous to real life geologic forces. Uplift and subduction occurs all the time. Yes, compared to our million year timescale 250 years is somewhat short, see point 1.
3 – Things just change. It by and large still has a lot of interesting GW1 accents to make us feel at home in Tyria.

EDIT: To add, sea level rise does not reflect the same way in different parts of the world. It is not a constant. Elevation plays a big role as well. As well as continental shelf angle.

soboard.6974:

To those complaining about displacement or stuff being under water.

A couple of points to consider.

1 – First and foremost its a fantasy game.
2 – Even the drastic changes that have been made involved processes analogous to real life geologic forces. Uplift and subduction occurs all the time. Yes, compared to our million year timescale 250 years is somewhat short, see point 1.
3 – Things just change. It by and large still has a lot of interesting GW1 accents to make us feel at home in Tyria.

EDIT: To add, sea level rise does not reflect the same way in different parts of the world. It is not a constant. Elevation plays a big role as well. As well as continental shelf angle.

While it is quite true that this is a fantasy game, it is a fantasy game built on the foundation of another beloved fantasy game and its lore and locations. Many of us loved the places and were attached to some of them. So it is more than natural that people are disappointed that they are no longer there. It is also natural for people to question why they are gone when no real explanation is given.

And yes, things do indeed change. I never for a second believed it would all be the same. In fact, I couldn’t wait to see what was different. But as far as there being enough “GW 1 accents” to make us feel at home. That is a matter of opinion and perspective. I wanted to see much more, so for me, there isn’t enough. It isn’t a complaint, it just isn’t what I was hoping for.

All of you points are valid. But how valid to each person is like beauty: it is in the eye of the beholder. See your #1. I don’t believe you will find two people who would happily agree on everything done to Tyria in the 250 years between games. It is natural for all of us to need to vent and grieve a little for the things we are sad we are not seeing.

@soboard: The hard part to explain isn’t really that Drok’s is underwater, it’s that Drok’s is underwater while Sledge isn’t. Given the proximity of Mt Maelstrom, ‘geological activity’ probably is the best explanation – it just needs to be something that’s raised the east while lowering the west.

Which kinda suggests that the plate border that created the Shiverpeaks runs between Drok’s and Sledge.

@jheryn: To be fair, it’s possible that the meta reason why Drok’s was sunk was to preserve the nostalgia. If it had stayed above water, Drok’s would almost certainly have been settled by someone after the dwarves left – dredge, norn, Inquest, Risen, even humans. A century or two of occupation by another race would probably have left it little resembling its GW1 appearance, but the quaggans that are in the area have been reasonably conservative when it comes to changing the landscape.

A similar comment could be made to Lion’s Arch, in fact. They didn’t need to have old Lion’s Arch in the bay, they could just have had the tsunami waters recede and new LA built on the ruins – but putting it underwater means we can visit the original for that spot of nostaliga. In contrast to most of the surviving Krytan settlements, which look very different to their GW1 appearances.

Hjorje.9453:

I agree, seeing where things are from GW1 on a GW2 brings up a lot of questions. Konig has done a good job on coming up with some ideas on the name changes and I agree with most of them.

As for no ruins in some of them, you have to remember some of those places in GW1 were only wooden structures, which 250 years is plenty of time for them to be gone without a trace. But most areas match up good with either some ruins or a new settlement on top of them.

The US hasn’t been attacked by dragons.

I do think there has been a lot more seismic activity’s not only in mount maelstrom. Maybe the rise of Orr caused this or maybe something else??.

Just look at the ruins in Ascalon, and specificly how many off them are standing sideways. That ruins become ruins is only logical. That some are half sinking in the ground is normal as wel. But why e.g. all ruins are on a hill, and all are tilted as if they where build on flat terrain could in my opinion only be caused by seismic activity’s. Im not ingame atm to make a screenshot, but just look from the TP in the black citadel to the west at the ruins of nolani.

mercury ranique.2170:

I do think there has been a lot more seismic activity’s not only in mount maelstrom. Maybe the rise of Orr caused this or maybe something else??.

Just look at the ruins in Ascalon, and specificly how many off them are standing sideways. That ruins become ruins is only logical. That some are half sinking in the ground is normal as wel. But why e.g. all ruins are on a hill, and all are tilted as if they where build on flat terrain could in my opinion only be caused by seismic activity’s. Im not ingame atm to make a screenshot, but just look from the TP in the black citadel to the west at the ruins of nolani.

The change in ascalonian terrain ocurred due to the searing 250 years ago. It wasn’t seismic activity, it was huge crystals of death falling from the sky, altering the terrain.

Ludovicus.7980:

mercury ranique.2170:

I do think there has been a lot more seismic activity’s not only in mount maelstrom. Maybe the rise of Orr caused this or maybe something else??.

Just look at the ruins in Ascalon, and specificly how many off them are standing sideways. That ruins become ruins is only logical. That some are half sinking in the ground is normal as wel. But why e.g. all ruins are on a hill, and all are tilted as if they where build on flat terrain could in my opinion only be caused by seismic activity’s. Im not ingame atm to make a screenshot, but just look from the TP in the black citadel to the west at the ruins of nolani.

The change in ascalonian terrain ocurred due to the searing 250 years ago. It wasn’t seismic activity, it was huge crystals of death falling from the sky, altering the terrain.

Nope. See included screenshot of ruins in Rin in GW2 (all tilted) and the same ruins in POST-seering Rin where they where damaged, but standing upright.

If you don’t believe, me go to GW1 and replay Nolani academy mission. I just did to check. Not a tilted ruin in sight.

Also note that the entire landscape contains much more hills.

Last remark. I did use Rin and Nolani as an example, wich we never visit in pre-seering.

These kind of geoligical changes (obvious caused not by the seering) don’t normally happen within 250 years unless there is seismic activity

mercury ranique.2170:

Ludovicus.7980:

mercury ranique.2170:

I do think there has been a lot more seismic activity’s not only in mount maelstrom. Maybe the rise of Orr caused this or maybe something else??.

Just look at the ruins in Ascalon, and specificly how many off them are standing sideways. That ruins become ruins is only logical. That some are half sinking in the ground is normal as wel. But why e.g. all ruins are on a hill, and all are tilted as if they where build on flat terrain could in my opinion only be caused by seismic activity’s. Im not ingame atm to make a screenshot, but just look from the TP in the black citadel to the west at the ruins of nolani.

The change in ascalonian terrain ocurred due to the searing 250 years ago. It wasn’t seismic activity, it was huge crystals of death falling from the sky, altering the terrain.

Nope. See included screenshot of ruins in Rin in GW2 (all tilted) and the same ruins in POST-seering Rin where they where damaged, but standing upright.

If you don’t believe, me go to GW1 and replay Nolani academy mission. I just did to check. Not a tilted ruin in sight.

Also note that the entire landscape contains much more hills.

Last remark. I did use Rin and Nolani as an example, wich we never visit in pre-seering.

These kind of geoligical changes (obvious caused not by the seering) don’t normally happen within 250 years unless there is seismic activity

Point taken. I guess you can blame this mostly on Deathwi… err… Primordious.

I’d be more prone to blame the Iron Legion for mining or simply not giving a kitten to keep the ruins in good condition while they built a city on top of them. Ruins naturally will sink over time, and it’s not unlikely that sinkholes form. No need for seismic activity or Elder Dragon influence – or even mines (which we know exist around the Black Citadel) for that matter. Not to mention that there’s been a lot of underground creatures coming above ground (most commonly seen being skritt and skelk – but don’t forget gravelings which are, imo, a kind of skelk given the models and habitat) who could have dug beneath the ruins and offsettled them..