Guild Wars 2

A post was made on the GW2 subreddit today. It contained another user’s quite credible theory about who’ll die (or retire?) next.

They theorized that DE + DE 2.0 + Canach (does he count as part of 2.0?) will probably be composed of one of every profession in the end. And there’s proof.

Zojja is DE’s only Elementalist, so it’s very, very likely that she lives.
Kasmeer and Marjory are the team Mesmer and Necro respectively; Marjory has replaced Trahearne, who just died.
Eir was the team Ranger, then Rox showed up – and Eir died not long thereafter.
Caithe’s the Thief.
Taimi is certainly Snaff’s successor, and Snaff is listed as an Engi on the wiki, so I guess golemancers like the two of them count as Engineers. I wonder if Golemancer is an upcoming Engi spec…
Rytlock is our Revenant.
Canach is DE’s Warrior. (He wields a sword and shield and wears heavy armor, so despite his use of grenades/mines, he is definitely not an Engi.)
But here’s the important part: we have two Guardians, Logan and Braham. Which means that either Logan will die from his injuries/exposure to Mordremoth’s corruption, or Braham will retire because he’s grieving for Eir, or Braham will get in a probably dragon-related freak accident and die.

Thoughts? Correct me on anything I got wrong. :P

Snaff seemed more like a mesmer to me based on his abillities
hopfuly it wont be that simple/predictable :s

To be fair, Snaff didn’t have any magical abilities, that he demonstrated, anyway. All of his magical contributions were made through devices and inventions, which is very engineer-y- although that’s assuming he could be pigeonholed into a profession, which I’m disinclined to do.

I fail to see why Logan or Braham have to die.

There is nothing at all saying you can’t have two main guardians around.

Kalavier.1097:

I fail to see why Logan or Braham have to die.

There is nothing at all saying you can’t have two main guardians around.

If Braham starts using a longbow and becomes a DH since he’s so hulk-smash, then MAYBE both live.

Thing is, there’s proof for “there can only be one.” Marjory shows up, Trahearne dies. Rox shows up, Eir dies. Nobody in DE 1.0/2.0 has died and not had a backup of the same profession!

KestrelGirl.9267:

Kalavier.1097:

I fail to see why Logan or Braham have to die.

There is nothing at all saying you can’t have two main guardians around.

If Braham starts using a longbow and becomes a DH since he’s so hulk-smash, then MAYBE both live.

Thing is, there’s proof for “there can only be one.” Marjory shows up, Trahearne dies. Rox shows up, Eir dies. Nobody in DE 1.0/2.0 has died and not had a backup of the same profession!

Rox has been around for a good while, and Eir was alive then. Marjory has been around for a while, and Trahearne was alive. Trahearne wasn’t even part of the “destiny’s edge” group (IF we even include the PC as part of it).

These are very vague, random generalizations. I don’t see this as proof at all, merely coincidence.

So yeah, I see nothing at all saying that Braham or Logan has to die/leave. Just people wishing it.

Logan will die

weeeeeel lets see here

Eir was a popular character, players like her, she dies
Tybalt is a popular character, players like him, he dies
Hero-tron is a popular character, players like him…….oh my…..

But in a serious response I really hope no one dies yet, it would be a bit cliched imo

KestrelGirl.9267:

Taimi is certainly Snaff’s successor, and Snaff is listed as an Engi on the wiki, so I guess golemancers like the two of them count as Engineers. I wonder if Golemancer is an upcoming Engi spec…

Snaff isn’t – Taimi is. Though that’s not actually correct. She doesn’t really do anything engineer-based. Everything she does is something more unique to asura than engineers.

KestrelGirl.9267:

Canach is DE’s Warrior. (He wields a sword and shield and wears heavy armor, so despite his use of grenades/mines, he is definitely not an Engi.)

Rytlock wielded a pistol while a warrior – no it wasn’t the charr racial skill, he never leapt back when he used it. In lore, Logan wore leather armor. Many NPCs mix and match armor and town clothing – some even mix and match different armor classes (light and medium for example). Taimi wears light armor yet people think she’s an engineer.

Canach’s shield uses visibly engineer skills (reflect bubble one), and his use of grenades/mines is far more part of his character than any swordplay.

If Canach is to be classified as a profession, he is engineer.

KestrelGirl.9267:

But here’s the important part: we have two Guardians, Logan and Braham. Which means that either Logan will die from his injuries/exposure to Mordremoth’s corruption, or Braham will retire because he’s grieving for Eir, or Braham will get in a probably dragon-related freak accident and die.

Thoughts? Correct me on anything I got wrong. :P

You know that Trahearne was around for a good two years with Marjory around before he died. Same with Rox and Eir – even longer, actually.

Does Canach and Taimi have to throw down until there is only one too, being both engineer-like?

eduardo.1436:

weeeeeel lets see here

Eir was a popular character, players like her, she dies
Tybalt is a popular character, players like him, he dies
Hero-tron is a popular character, players like him…….oh my…..

Doesn’t spell well for Taimi and Canach.

To be fair, Tybalt was written to die before we even met him. All the mentors were.

Probably me. A lot. Trying to get whatever bonus achievements it throws at me.

Do we really need more character deaths right now, really?

Lots and lots of mooks.

Seriously, though, if we take this line of thought, I can see other options than Logan dying. If LS3 focuses on human politics, I could see Logan being forced back into his role as primary Seraph commander rather than being part of an adventuring band. Which technically may have been what he was doing with the fleet in the first place, in fact.

In terms of character professions, I’m inclined to agree with Konig (in fact, there may be some previous discussions we’ve had influencing that). Canach has been very engineer-y in his behaviour except in his first appearance in Lost Shores – the only thing that points to him being a warrior is that he uses a sword. I could see there being an engineer elite specialisation show up at some stage that introduces that option. (I could see Smodur the Unflinching also turning out to have this hypothetical future elite specialisation, although we haven’t seen him in combat.)

Snaff and Taimi both seem to kinda have “Asura inventor” as their profession. Now, I could see that being a future engineer specialisation, but like many asura boss enemies in open world and dungeons, both seem to be defined more by their use of asura technology than by formal professions.

We do see Smodur in combat – during Season 2 when performing the Foefire cleansing ritual. He is called an engineer in lore I believe, wears heavy armor, and iirc, fought with a sword. Mechanically he seems to be a charred Canach.

the reason i think Snaff may be a mesmer is because of his mind related studies/research
kinda like how Oola is a necro but makes golems (its not uncommon for spell caster asura to use alot of tools/invention)

we all should know by now NPC never follow mechanics when it come to weapons/tools xD

Unlike Snaff, however, Oola uses spells herself when in combat. Snaff never once uses his own spells – just power crystals with imbued magic in them.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

We do see Smodur in combat – during Season 2 when performing the Foefire cleansing ritual. He is called an engineer in lore I believe, wears heavy armor, and iirc, fought with a sword. Mechanically he seems to be a charred Canach.

I think he was described as being an inventor in the old charr page (the same one that told us Bangar Ruinbringer was a wild card who didn’t like the treaty) – you don’t need to be an engineer to invent things.

I agree that he probably is a charr version of Canach rather than a straight warrior, but I don’t think he’s been described as an engineer directly. I may be forgetting something, though (and engineers were originally planned to have heavy armour IIRC).

At 0:20 you see Snaff wielding a staff and doing a big magical attack, and all the following scenes show his figure with purple light (mesmer?)… he was either Elementalist or Mesmer.

Which is interesting, since as noted above, he never uses magic directly (or a staff) in the book.

Purple light in spellcasting would point to mesmer, though, and mesmer was the common speculation a while back: most of Snaff’s inventions seem to be mind based (either protecting the mind or projecting it), making mesmer the most logical profession to be coming up with those particular devices.

To be fair (again), at 0:13 it also looks like we see them in the Jade Sea. Concept art is tricky to take as proof.

I feel the same way about concept art. but that (the video)kinda shows up ingame :s

All the same, though, we know DE hasn’t been to Cantha. There’s also concept art cutscenes in-game that show Zhaitan as a radically different creature than what we thought, or sylvari rousing druid husks. Both of those are misleading as well.

What I’m saying is, generally, you have to be skeptical with these things.

To be fair we never saw what zhaithan looks like when it isnt starving

The sylvari racial elite kinda supports the druid husks scene (also the Brisban Wildlands event shows a husk and a spirit!)

the jade sea scene (if it is the jade sea hard to tell in still images :s) is the only oddity IMO

Knuckle Joe.7408:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klK1Dnqj2I8

At 0:20 you see Snaff wielding a staff and doing a big magical attack, and all the following scenes show his figure with purple light (mesmer?)… he was either Elementalist or Mesmer.

His clothing is purple. Zojja’s is blue – does that make her a guardian? Kudu’s clothing is red – what profession is red?

He never actually uses magic in the book and that scene is not very descriptive (which is intentional – those two scenes were described as conceptual art for DE, not intended to mark what they actually did, and the first one takes place in the Jade Sea, where DE has never been).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

To be fair (again), at 0:13 it also looks like we see them in the Jade Sea. Concept art is tricky to take as proof.

That is the jade sea

Don’t recall the original source but said source’s name for the file was what it got saved as on the wiki. And as you can see, it isn’t accurate at all.

Caithe wields a staff, Rytlock’s sword isn’t on fire, DE where they’ve never been, Logan using a sword (while with DE, Logan used a mace).

The other one which is talked about is just as off – Logan and Rytlock both wield greatswords (neither on fire), Caithe again with a staff (makes me think she was originally to be a necromancer).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Caithe again with a staff (makes me think she was originally to be a necromancer).

…Daredevil?

Well if attunements exist in lore (im sure auras do) a Ele can be Red(fire) and Blue(water)

(really i just think its the glowy parts of that t3 asura light armor)

I feel people are far too fixated on the perceived symmetry of this.

As it is lore characters have very loose professions and the rules that govern us the player does not apply to them. The idea that there must be one single character representing every profession in the story and no more than one is kinda bizarre . It would put a real limit on the narrative for no discernible reason or benefit. Logan and Braham have guardian animations and abilities but from a lore stand point Braham is a norn who follows the teachings of wolf whilst logan is the commander of the seraphs i imagine both would have different styles of fighting and thinking .

For me it would just be bad story telling if they where gonna kill off a character just because we can’t have two guardians or whatever.

Well, the GW2 community do hate Logan to the core for his cowardice. I wouldn’t be surprised if Anet decided to kill him off to satisfy the community.

Deleena.3406:

Well if attunements exist in lore (im sure auras do) a Ele can be Red(fire) and Blue(water)

(really i just think its the glowy parts of that t3 asura light armor)

From memory of what Zojja does ingame and in the books, she seems to favour air and water magic, so a blue colour scheme makes sense on that basis.

Eldrake.1543:

Well, the GW2 community do hate Logan to the core for his cowardice. I wouldn’t be surprised if Anet decided to kill him off to satisfy the community.

Sorry for going off-topic but…
When was Logan a coward?
I haven’t read Edge of Destiny in forever but I believe the situation was as follows:
There were 2 events happening at the same time:
Destiny’s Edge was off to slay kralkatorrik.
Queen Jennah was, I believe, in Ebonhawke as she and many others got attacked by a horde of Branded.

Logan was with Destiny’s Edge, yet had also pledged to protect the queen and come to her when summoned or in danger.

The reason for Logan heading off to Jennah could be attributed more to his loyalty than his cowardice. If you were to ask me at least.

foxcat.4096:

I feel people are far too fixated on the perceived symmetry of this.

As it is lore characters have very loose professions and the rules that govern us the player does not apply to them. The idea that there must be one single character representing every profession in the story and no more than one is kinda bizarre . It would put a real limit on the narrative for no discernible reason or benefit. Logan and Braham have guardian animations and abilities but from a lore stand point Braham is a norn who follows the teachings of wolf whilst logan is the commander of the seraphs i imagine both would have different styles of fighting and thinking .

For me it would just be bad story telling if they where gonna kill off a character just because we can’t have two guardians or whatever.

however profession do exist in GW2 lore (they are not limited to PC mechanics tho) but if some1 from the 5 major races shoots purple magic energy there is a high chance they are a mesmer. (or they extremely good with chaos magic XD)

also its not limited to the 8 professions we can play there are clearly more professions
in lore (monks!)

TBH i think the kill off because we cant have 2 may have been true at one point for races.(but not professions) Marjory was supposed to die :s (if the data mined stuff is true)

KestrelGirl.9267:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Caithe again with a staff (makes me think she was originally to be a necromancer).

…Daredevil?

This concept art is from 2009 or earlier. I highly doubt they had daredevil in mind way back then.

draxynnic.3719:

Deleena.3406:

Well if attunements exist in lore (im sure auras do) a Ele can be Red(fire) and Blue(water)

(really i just think its the glowy parts of that t3 asura light armor)

From memory of what Zojja does ingame and in the books, she seems to favour air and water magic, so a blue colour scheme makes sense on that basis.

You should play the Synergetics storyline and Sorrow’s Embrace story mode (again).

She burns those Inquest like a crazy pyromaniac. Which honestly made me love the character.

I don’t think I’ve seen her ever use air magic, though. I only recall water and fire.

Either way, Kudu isn’t an elementalist, so his red doesn’t mean fire elementalist. The only thing that gives away a profession is his use of a rifle and glue shot in SE story. Which makes him an engineer wearing light armor if anything.

Eldrake.1543:

Well, the GW2 community do hate Logan to the core for his cowardice. I wouldn’t be surprised if Anet decided to kill him off to satisfy the community.

Only, he was never a coward.

Nero.8047:

Eldrake.1543:

Well, the GW2 community do hate Logan to the core for his cowardice. I wouldn’t be surprised if Anet decided to kill him off to satisfy the community.

Sorry for going off-topic but…
When was Logan a coward?
I haven’t read Edge of Destiny in forever but I believe the situation was as follows:
There were 2 events happening at the same time:
Destiny’s Edge was off to slay kralkatorrik.
Queen Jennah was, I believe, in Ebonhawke as she and many others got attacked by a horde of Branded.

Logan was with Destiny’s Edge, yet had also pledged to protect the queen and come to her when summoned or in danger.

The reason for Logan heading off to Jennah could be attributed more to his loyalty than his cowardice. If you were to ask me at least.

Logan swore an oath to come to the Queen when she needed aid(IIRC). He never made such an oath to Destiny’s Edge.

What some people seem to love to forget (and I’ve seen many, many people with irrational hate-kittens for all characters, or random ones) is you had Logan between two very nasty and bad options.
A: Let Jennah possibly die and stay with Destiny’s Edge.
B: Go save Jennah, but maybe weaken Destiny’s Edge too much and prevent a kill on Kralk.

For all their bluster and whining rants, they forget peace with the Charr came about because Jennah, Caudecus wouldn’t pursue peace with the Charr at all.

Yes, Logan faced a tough decision. He had to betray one side or leave the other side hanging out to dry. He choose to go help Jennah because she is his queen and love interest, which is quite understandable.
But as a team member and friend, he would be out of question for me personally if I was one of DE from this point on.
I don´t thini he will die in ls3. He is lame and at the same time shiny enough to be a mainstay sidekick.^^

I can also relate to Caudecus in the charr question. Charr forces raided and sacked Ascalon City and the surrounding land which is the anchestral homeland of Kryta humans.
I would not look for peace with them either and fight them for every step they want to come in human lands.

Ascalon City and the surrounding lands isn’t the ancestral home of Krytan humans, apart from those that are explicitly descended from Ascalonian refugees. (We don’t know the exact figure, and two and a half centuries is a long time to mingle, but those that self-identify as being of Ascalonian heritage seem to be a minority, albeit a significant one).

Kryta was settled first from Orr (prior to the Exodus) and then from Elona (circa 300AE). Ascalonians didn’t arrive in any significant numbers until after the Searing.

Torolan.5816:

Yes, Logan faced a tough decision. He had to betray one side or leave the other side hanging out to dry. He choose to go help Jennah because she is his queen and love interest, which is quite understandable.
But as a team member and friend, he would be out of question for me personally if I was one of DE from this point on.
I don´t thini he will die in ls3. He is lame and at the same time shiny enough to be a mainstay sidekick.^^

Honestly, I’m kinda hoping the Commander forms a ‘vanguard’ group, of Destiny’s Edge, the commander, and the biconics (at least at first). But, Jennah is Queen, love interest, and they shared a magical bond that she would use to summon him if she needed help, and he swore to respond to that last I checked.

So, we have going to save the queen, or breaking an Oath.

I can also relate to Caudecus in the charr question. Charr forces raided and sacked Ascalon City and the surrounding land which is the anchestral homeland of Kryta humans.
I would not look for peace with them either and fight them for every step they want to come in human lands.

While the other part isn’t true and somebody else touched on it, Caudecus is also a lot more concerned about his personal power and control then the good of the world.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

He never actually uses magic in the book and that scene is not very descriptive (which is intentional – those two scenes were described as conceptual art for DE, not intended to mark what they actually did, and the first one takes place in the Jade Sea, where DE has never been).

You’re right about the staff from Caithe, but even though Logan and Rytlock aren’t using their trademark weapons, you can clearly see they are heavy classes nonetheless in the cinematic, plus Logan’s a guardian, and guards can use GS. I believe Caithe’s staff is a special case, because Anet already had a caster in DE, which is Zojja, so they had to rework Caithe.

I’m not talking about cloth armor colors, I’m talking about the color of the projection of magic the character’s making, which is depicted as glowing purple/pink. Chaos armor comes to mind as being purple.

I haven’t read the books, but I’m assuming this piece of lore comes from the book itself:

Master Snaff was an asuran golemancer. Snaff was a highly regarded magical theorist and inventor before he encountered Destiny’s Edge, but the group helped him develop and hone his talents even more. Snaff specialized in the creation of enormous combat golems, but many of his smaller inventions focused on using telepathic control instead of machinery. In the final battle against Kralkatorrik, Snaff grappled with the mind of the Elder Dragon directly; he was even able to successfully control it for a time.

I’m confident Snaff was a Mesmer, with the inventorpart present because of his Asuran race isntead of being an engineer (After all, you can make an asuran ranger but your personal storyline lets you pick your first invention).

What other thing can explain how he was able to make mind-controlling inventions, other than his understanding of chaos magic/the mind as a Mesmer.

EDIT: Lol you seem to agree with me in this 3 year old post: http://postimg.org/image/5xjch7mkv/

Whether or not I agreed four years ago is irrelevant, because opinions change, often due to a change in information – either way, nothing really says he’s a mesmer. He easily could have been, well, not a caster at all. All asura use magitech, even warriors and engineers which have minimal to no magic personally.

And the concept art is just that – concept art. It’s not useful for accuracy.

I have to say if the art shows up as a random painting on the wall in a room its easy to dismiss it as just concept art.

But when it shows in game as a narration for a Story mode dungeon/PS mission
its abit harder to dismiss IMO at that point you could dismiss anything ingame
(This needs Dev clarification IMO!)

So you would argue that Zhaitan had about five different looks throughout the course of the personal story?

Because that’s more or less how many times we see him in game either through in-game model or through art cinematics.

We see him in the OoW intro, the Durmand Priory intro, during Defending Fort Trinity, Caithe’s narration depicting the rise of Orr, and then when we fight him. Each time he looked different – drastically so except for the Fort Trinity and Caithe narration times (which were this one and this one respectively; unfortunately, the first two don’t seem to have images on wiki).

That seems rather drastic argument. Especially since we did get dev confirmation that art cinematic isn’t always meant to be accurate. In this interview it’s actually stated that the Zhaitan art cinematics are meant to depict “how people think Zhaitan looks” and there was a forum post by a dev who explained the S1 finale cinematic was “not showing what characters know”.

I think those two bits is enough to be able to dismiss the notion of “complete accuracy in art cinematics” without dismissing “anything ingame” or even anything else (even partial accuracy of art cinematics – which in this case I would argue is “showing Destiny’s Edge fighting together in multiple battles”).

thos pictures dont look that different (besides different angles)

if thats the Devs stance thats sounds very counter to how GW2 was said to be
(a more visual world instead of GW1 text quest/story)
i can imagine that being confusing to peaple that dont live on the forums xD

Personally I’d always taken Zhaitans different depictions before we actually meet the Dragon as something quite natural.

Do we know that the Tyrians knew what the Dragon looked like before our fight?
I believe the only thing we, as Tyrians, knew was that there was a Dragon.

To further illustrate take European Explorers:
European Explorers came to many foreign lands and discovered many a Flora and Fauna.
An example of this is the lion.

https://www.reading.ac.uk/web/MultimediaFiles/emrc_lion.JPG
This is how European artists would depict the lion, solely based on descriptions.
In the current days we know that this is really not what a lion looks like.
But that’s because we have something to compare it to, namely:
http://cbs.umn.edu/sites/cbs.umn.edu/files/public/african_lion_king-wide_1.jpg

If all the orders and other Tyrians (including the PC) would’ve known exactly what the Dragon would look like. The game would’ve been a lot less immersive for me.

Sadly most of our information, even to this very day, is second-hand. (in the least!)
The information we receive isn’t always 100% correct and this affects minds a lot.
Be it visual (such as the lion/dragon) or even up to the poitical. (North Korea, and who knows which Tyrian faction that believes they’re doing the right thing while actually being controlled by a manipulative leader.cough the PC during the White Mantle arc in GW1 ^^)

i kinda saw thos Zhaitans depictions ment for the person playing eyes.
it be kinda odd if the PC could see zhaitans on the other side of orr xD
unless it was ment to be the PC imagination (not really conveyed as such)

(farther off topic: there are far worse countries then North Korea but they get ignored
simply because their our (US) allies but the real world tend to not make sense :x)

Deleena.3406:

thos pictures dont look that different (besides different angles)

The two are, as I said, similar to each other. The others weren’t – and the four combined don’t match Zhaitan’s in-game model much at all.

Deleena.3406:

if thats the Devs stance thats sounds very counter to how GW2 was said to be
(a more visual world instead of GW1 text quest/story)
i can imagine that being confusing to peaple that dont live on the forums xD

It’s still a visual world instead of text. I don’t see how its “very counter”.

Depicting truth or interpretation doesn’t change the format of the storytelling. It’s all still visual.

A dream sequence in a movie is no less cinematic because it’s not ‘actually happening in the story’.

Nero.8047:

Personally I’d always taken Zhaitans different depictions before we actually meet the Dragon as something quite natural.

Do we know that the Tyrians knew what the Dragon looked like before our fight?
I believe the only thing we, as Tyrians, knew was that there was a Dragon.

-Words!-

In lore, only two individuals had seen Zhaitan and lived to the time of the PS – Caithe and Trahearne.

Though Cobiah Marriner had also seen Zhaitan, during its rise. Those three are the only known individuals to have seen Zhaitan and live through the encounter.

But this is actually my point. Those art cinematics aren’t depicting truth, they’re depicting interpretation.

Knuckle Joe.7408:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klK1Dnqj2I8

At 0:20 you see Snaff wielding a staff and doing a big magical attack, and all the following scenes show his figure with purple light (mesmer?)… he was either Elementalist or Mesmer.

That Cutscine is not all that reliable as far as Weapons they show Rytlock Holding a Regular sword and not Sahothen