Am I the only one confused by this? Not only they have one of their bigger camps next to the zone, they are supposed to be coming from there (aren’t they?).
But no matter where you look, there’s not even a single centaur on Brisban Wildlands.
Centaurs in the Maguuma Jungle in GW1 were further north and west. Brisban Wildlands is mostly fogged areas in GW1 – it contains the southernmost edge of Sage Lands (if that), Henge of Denravi, Fort Koga, and easternmost Aurora Glade – and all that fogged area between such.
The centaurs in GW1 were in Ettin’s Back, The Falls, Tangle Root, Dry Top, Silverwood, The Wilds, and Bloodstone Fen. All of which are west or north of Brisban Wildlands.
The Harathi, Tamini, and Modniir come from north of Kryta and the northern Shiverpeaks. Harathi – the one who are closest to the Maguuma in GW2 – come from Harathi Hinterlands I believe (or at least north of there). It was believed and it is possible they’re the ones in the Maguuma in GW1, but they do not come from Brisband (it’s likely they live north of Brisban and went east around Divinity’s Reach to combine with the Tamini and Modniir, of course).
Yeah, Konig’s definitely right here. I do not know exactly why the Harathi are placed down by Kessex honestly, unless they were more widespread and got cut off by the human forces. It makes very little sense that they are being fed reinforcements from the Maguuma though. You also have to remember quite a few races have migrated since the original game. Harpies were never found in Tyria and they have moved north for some reason (prolly related to Joko). Hylek were also never seen in Tyria til Eye of the North, so this could have been the beginning of their migration, or perhaps just moving into their territory. It could be that when the humans moved further west the centaurs regrouped east and started progressing from there.
Yeah, Konig’s definitely right here. I do not know exactly why the Harathi are placed down by Kessex honestly, unless they were more widespread and got cut off by the human forces. It makes very little sense that they are being fed reinforcements from the Maguuma though. You also have to remember quite a few races have migrated since the original game. Harpies were never found in Tyria and they have moved north for some reason (prolly related to Joko). Hylek were also never seen in Tyria til Eye of the North, so this could have been the beginning of their migration, or perhaps just moving into their territory. It could be that when the humans moved further west the centaurs regrouped east and started progressing from there.
Nah Hylek were all over the swampy areas of southern Tyria, they probably just moved during the 250 years.
I thought that the once waring Centaur Tribes united to kill the Humans, if this is true it’d make perfect sense as to why they’re getting forces through Maguuma. That and it’s possible that the Harathi Centaur have moved (or a large amount of them) to the Maguuma jungle to help strike the deal with that tribe?
Yeah, I know GW1 Maguuma centaurs were far from Brisban, but my point is:
How do the centaurs as western Kryta get reinforcements, if it’s not from Maguuma?
Also, Kessex is plagued by them, with (As I already said) one of their bigger bases being next to Brisban. It doesn’t make too much sense for them not to have at least 1 camp west.
The way I see it, centaur homeland is at Woodland Cascades, and when the wwar started they started a front south, at northeastern Kryta, and then started another one west, having circled Kryta from north to west, walking from Woodland Cascades to Maguuma Wastes.
Yeah, Konig’s definitely right here. I do not know exactly why the Harathi are placed down by Kessex honestly
I believe that in the lvl 20 story step for humans, Logan says that centaurs have recently pushed their way there.
So those in Kessex Hills are a recent development from pushing through Gendarran Fields.
How do the centaurs as western Kryta get reinforcements, if it’s not from Maguuma?
Also, Kessex is plagued by them, with (As I already said) one of their bigger bases being next to Brisban. It doesn’t make too much sense for them not to have at least 1 camp west.
The way I see it, centaur homeland is at Woodland Cascades, and when the wwar started they started a front south, at northeastern Kryta, and then started another one west, having circled Kryta from north to west, walking from Woodland Cascades to Maguuma Wastes.
They get reinforcements via Gendarran Fields. They don’t need a camp west of Overlord’s Greatcamp because their enemy is not west of that spot.
I don’t see why they would have needed to come from the west to build the Overlord’s Greatcamp. That’s just where the Harathi general who’s pushing into Kryta in a flanking motion stationed himself. They invaded that far in towards the south from the east and dug in.
Yeah, Konig’s definitely right here. I do not know exactly why the Harathi are placed down by Kessex honestly, unless they were more widespread and got cut off by the human forces. It makes very little sense that they are being fed reinforcements from the Maguuma though. You also have to remember quite a few races have migrated since the original game. Harpies were never found in Tyria and they have moved north for some reason (prolly related to Joko). Hylek were also never seen in Tyria til Eye of the North, so this could have been the beginning of their migration, or perhaps just moving into their territory. It could be that when the humans moved further west the centaurs regrouped east and started progressing from there.
Nah Hylek were all over the swampy areas of southern Tyria, they probably just moved during the 250 years.
I thought that the once waring Centaur Tribes united to kill the Humans, if this is true it’d make perfect sense as to why they’re getting forces through Maguuma. That and it’s possible that the Harathi Centaur have moved (or a large amount of them) to the Maguuma jungle to help strike the deal with that tribe?
What I said, if you’ll note, is that they, the Hylek, didn’t appear in Tyria until the Eye of the North expansion. Now it could go either way, that it was their territory that we were moving into, or that it was them moving in. It makes sense to me that, with the human ruins all the way south in GW2 that the Hylek migrated north for some reason. Not to mention talking to the Shining Blade in Eye of the North down south, they seem to think that the Hylek are a new threat, not one that has been there consistently, but that’s just personal interpretation.
Several hylek in GW2 mention that they’ve been there for hundreds of years – including, I note, the hylek in Kessex Hills.
Note that with the possible exception of those in Caledon Forest, all hylek grouns are in areas that were fogged in GW1 (including the Kessex Hills fellas, I think).
So it was us moving into their territory.
The reason why the hylek are a “new” threat to the Shining Blade in EN is because the Shining Blade are new to the area.
Several hylek in GW2 mention that they’ve been there for hundreds of years – including, I note, the hylek in Kessex Hills.
Note that with the possible exception of those in Caledon Forest, all hylek grouns are in areas that were fogged in GW1 (including the Kessex Hills fellas, I think).
So it was us moving into their territory.
The reason why the hylek are a “new” threat to the Shining Blade in EN is because the Shining Blade are new to the area.
This, However, some Hylek (i can’t remember which ones exactly) migrated to new lands as well due to the risen (and sometimes krait) invading their original homelands and forcing them back. Anet named a few examples in their blog post i believe, but idk any off the top of my head.
Those that migrated are in Bloodtide Coast and Sparkfly Fen (you can even find hylek grounds that are completely full of hylek undead). All the others are in their ancestral homes.
I’d have to admit it’s a question I’ve pondered as well – you can make explanations as to why the centaurs aren’t in Brisban, but the fact that you have to indicates that their total lack in Brisban is counterintuitive. Really, when you think about it, given the presence of Fort Salma and the fort at the eastern end of Gendarran, one also wonders how the centaurs built such a large presence in southern Queensdale.
The way I see it, there are two possible interpretations as to what happened.
The first is essentially what Konig is saying – the centaurs abused the Lionguard’s neutrality shamelessly, sweeping from Gendarran into Kessex right past First Haven and the havens in northeastern Kessex to found the Earthworks. Some of the centaurs then moved west to besiege Fort Salma, crossing the bridge between Greyhoof Meadows and Thunder Ridge, while the others went north past the treehouse bandit camp and entered Queensdale through the swamp.
If this is so, I could see this having ramifications with the Kryta-LA relations – I could see the Krytan government feeling that they didn’t have to guard an approach the Lionguard was already guarding, and the demonstrated falsity of that assumption has cost a lot of Krytan lives.
The other possibility is that the centaurs did pass through Brisban in an outflanking maneuver, but didn’t leave any forces within Brisban itself. Given the observed bandit-centaur alliance, it’s possible that bandits are facilitating transport of centaur supplies through Brisban.
When it comes to the hylek – well, it wouldn’t be the first time we’ve seen other sapient species living within the borders of a human nation. I think the hylek in the Caledon are definitely relative newcomers, though – that coast was pretty much explorable in GW1, and there were no hylek there. I’d guess they moved in after the Great Tsumani, filling the vacuum left by humans and tengu that used to live in the region.
If this is so, I could see this having ramifications with the Kryta-LA relations – I could see the Krytan government feeling that they didn’t have to guard an approach the Lionguard was already guarding, and the demonstrated falsity of that assumption has cost a lot of Krytan lives.
If I’m remembering correctly, there’s already a bit of that – in Kessex, I believe, one of the Lionguard complain about how they’re just letting the centaur do as they like, and there’s also some Seraph who similarly complain about how the Lionguard aren’t doing anything.
If this is so, I could see this having ramifications with the Kryta-LA relations – I could see the Krytan government feeling that they didn’t have to guard an approach the Lionguard was already guarding, and the demonstrated falsity of that assumption has cost a lot of Krytan lives.
If I’m remembering correctly, there’s already a bit of that – in Kessex, I believe, one of the Lionguard complain about how they’re just letting the centaur do as they like, and there’s also some Seraph who similarly complain about how the Lionguard aren’t doing anything.
This is true, it’s all because of the stupid peace treaty the centaurs made with the lion Guard so that there’d be no harming of any lions arch citizens (which has kept MANY citizens safe) or Lion Guard. You can overhear a conversation with some centaur and lion guard diplomats and when the lion guard talks about X number of civilian deaths the centaur quickly becomes fearful the treaty will break and assures them it was the bandits or risen.
If this is so, I could see this having ramifications with the Kryta-LA relations – I could see the Krytan government feeling that they didn’t have to guard an approach the Lionguard was already guarding, and the demonstrated falsity of that assumption has cost a lot of Krytan lives.
This kind of already is the situation, truth be told. That the Krytan government are having poorer views of Lion’s Arch.
There’s two ministers – Minister Etham and a generic one – in The Upper City talking about the situation with Nebo Terrace, where the generic one says they sent for aid from Lion’s Arch, and Etham says they’re not doing anything. The Ministry knows that the Lionguard aren’t helping – and probably know they’re staying neutral to the situation (and the centaurs are abusing their peace with the Lionguard according to the Sheriff in Kessex Haven, it just can’t be proven and the centaurs are denying it – though it may be referencing Daithor’s works).
Oh, the centaurs are definitely abusing the Lionguard neutrality for more than just attacking Kryta through invasion paths that run right under the proverbial noses of several havens – the purpose of the havens is to protect trade routes, and the centaurs don’t pass up opportunities to raid caravans.
But yeah, I could definitely see some interesting ramifications to the Lionguard’s neutrality in a war that caused so much devastation to Kryta – I could definitely see Kryta insisting that either the Lionguard pledge to help against major invasions of Kryta past the havens or they move out to make room for Seraph who will… or, failing that, threaten to build their own fortresses to cover that route to be funded by taxing caravans passing through.
Interesting sidenote to the possibility of centaur reinforcements from the Maguuma. I was recently thinking about the entrance to the Maguuma Wastes from Brisban, the broken bridge which is being slowly repaired by the bandits. Well we know that the bandits are allied with the centaurs, so perhaps the bridge was destroyed by the seraph to slow centaur reinforcements and is being repaired by their bandit allies to eventually let them through?
That is a possibility, though all three tribes are seen coming from the east and the Seraph in Brisban never make mention of centaurs.
True about the centaurs never mentioned by the seraph, but it had always been my interpretation that the humans moving west is what had brought the centaurs down on them in the first place. I mean humanity hasn’t moved north into the centaur lands at all, the only move they have made is into the lands closer to the Maguuma wastes. Also we do not know anything about the Centaurs in the Maguuma, or Losaru in the Crystal Desert. Heck we don’t even know the name of the centaur tribe of the Maguuma.
A generically named Seraph Soldier that circles around within Fort Trinity explains why centaurs are attacking – the real reason. There’s also a long standing history ever since 300 AE.
Conflict began in when Kryta was (re?)settled in 300 AE and expanded into centaur territory (where is unknown) and had been going on ever since more or less – there’s a conflict with centaurs in the background of GW1, though it’s never shown it’s often talked about in the Maguuma Jungle. I presume that Watchtower Coast’s towers were meant for the centaur threat from the north – and when they were removed between GW1 and GW2, the centaurs attacked again in full force.
More recently though…
The Modniir tribe was almost wiped out 250 years ago by norn and humans. A couple decades ago, the up-and-coming leader, Ulgoth, re-united the Modniir and the subjugated the Tamini and Harathi with pledges of vengeance against the humans and norn. They claim that they’re wanting land, but the true motivation is the Modniir’s revenge. The Tamini and Harathi are ruled by fear into joining.
The Maguuma Jungle became the Maguuma Wastes when it dried out a lot during the period between GW1 and GW2. A dragon is suspected. Maybe the centaurs abandoned Maguuma for their homelands a la the Charr in Ascalon.
Just noticed something flipping through EoD again:
Queen JennahToday, before Commodore Marriner and the Ship’s Council, I have confirmed Kryta’s commitment to work with Lion’s Arch for the good of Tyria’s free races. Together, our people and yours declare an alliance. We will help you fight the Orrian undead, who threaten your shipping lanes, and you will help us fiht the centaurs that raid our villages.
Man, she had got to have been spitting chips when the Ship’s Council made truce with the centaurs…
Yeah, I always found that interesting how between the five years the Lionguard went from a truce with Kryta to fight the centaurs in turn for aid against the risen to avoid the kryta/centaur conflict.
I guess the Captain’s Council (not Ship’s Council) thought the centaurs would be a bigger threat than the risen. Which looking at Gendarran and Kessex Hills, is fairly true (Krytans wouldn’t be too adept at naval warfare either, I imagine).
Yeah, I always found that interesting how between the five years the Lionguard went from a truce with Kryta to fight the centaurs in turn for aid against the risen to avoid the kryta/centaur conflict.
I guess the Captain’s Council (not Ship’s Council) thought the centaurs would be a bigger threat than the risen. Which looking at Gendarran and Kessex Hills, is fairly true (Krytans wouldn’t be too adept at naval warfare either, I imagine).
Depends on if there are any ports on the northern parts of Kryta. Divinity’s Reach is set against a body of water that flows out into the sea.
Well we know that the Krytans have ships going through Lake Doric – that’s how Seraph’s Landing in Harathi Hinterlands gets supplies. Though transportation and naval warfare are two very different things.
Still intrigued about this!
I have a question that could clarify things a bit: Originally, the Halacon river bridge was human, or centaur?
I could see the centaurs being long gone from Maguuma Wastes (at least near Kryta), and Overlord Greatcamp being built to flank, and not to support.
Still, there’s many things about the centaur invasion that don’t make too much sense, like how they moved from Gendarran Fields to Kessex Hills, all while leaving Nebo Terrace and Ascalon Settlement intact. Same for Queensdale, if they had a tunnel between Gavernhold Camp and Heartwood Pass Camp, I’d understand it, but that isn’t likely. Maybe there was a tunnel between Ambush Camp and Hidden Cliff Camp.
The advance across northern Kessex Hills is clear, but where it originates isn’t, not too much.
I believe the thought is, when the human player starts the game is around the worst portion of the human/centaur wars. At the start of the human story the centaurs have started assaulting Shaemoor, thus they had pushed mostly through the Hinterlands, Gendarran, and Queensdale, while obviously making progress into conquering some of Kessex. The story from then on out seems to be the progress of the humans pushing the centaurs practically to the edge of their territory. A recent Q&A with some of the lore developers seems to point to the fact that humanity has practically backed the centaurs into a corner. They do not have anywhere else to go, so short of extermination we’ve pushed them to the brink. As for the mountainous zone walls, It is usually best to think of these as mechanical barriers rather than existing within the game. There are some instances where the walls have locations within, these do exist, but otherwise the land is far more open and available than what we see.
It’s not really humanity that’s backed the centaurs into a corner, it’s other things like the wasting of the northern Maguuma and Jormag’s conquest of the northern Shiverpeaks. What’s stopping them from staying in the Verdant Cascades reason is unclear, but likely there is one.
I’d been thinking about invasion routes as well.
One simple possibility is that the bandits in Brisban are allied with the centaurs, and they simply let the centaurs through, but the centaurs have no interest in holding Brisban because it’s not as fertile as Kryta.
The other possibility is that they blitzkreiged past Ascalon Settlement and Nebo. A tunnel tunnel or other route between Ambush Camp and Hidden Cliffs Camp would certainly explain how the centaurs got into eastern Queensdale. From there, it’s possible that the mountains between eastern Queensdale and the bandit den in Sojourner’s Way are passable or just don’t exist, granting them access to eastern Kessex – alternatively, the nonaggression pact with Lion’s Arch may have allowed them to simply bypass Firsthaven and Blackhaven and get into Kessex that way. Earthworks Bluff becomes their first major camp in the region, and they move west along the northern part of the map, but Fort Salma and Claypool prove too tough a pair of proverbial nuts to crack. In order to be able to attack from both sides, they cross the gorge (I’m presuming the bridge was originally human-made, incidentally) and build their greatcamp to the south.
A tunnel or pass in the vicinity of Earthlord’s Gap would allow the centaurs to gain access to Heartwood Camp. The attack on Shaemoor probably came from here, with two prongs – one directly at the Scaver Plateau, while the other slipped through the pass between Altar Brook Vale and the pumping station (possibly guided by bandits, although the bandits closer to Divinity’s Reach seem more like common criminals than centaur collaborators) in order to get at the town behind the garrison.
And that, of course, is where the game starts.
(edited by draxynnic.3719)
If you look at the map of Tyria, you could see the centaur presence forming a quarter-circle starting from Harathi Hinterlands running south and west through Gendarran Fields and into Kessex Hills and all the way to the border of Maguuma Jungle.
The centaurs are a threat to human settlements, so having formed that half-circle and possibly supply lines along that offensive, the centaurs now lay siege to human settlements in those areas and northwest of that “quadrant”, i.e. Queensdale and ultimately Divinity’s Reach.
Just some musings on how the centaurs came to be where they are spread across the maps, and through some spear-headed offenses they have got through to set up smaller bases as deep into human territory as Shaemoor, etc.
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