Guild Wars 2

I already started a thread on this topic over at reddit, but I though it might be interesting to get some input from you guys here at the forums, too.

—[copied from reddit]—
Considering the portentous letter we found with Aerin and the fact that we will have a summit of Tyrian leaders pretty soon, there is a fair chance that ANet will actually kill a Tyrian leader. The burning question is obviously, who might be the unfortunate victim?

I did a small census of the Tyrian leadership. Of course, I came up with the following obvious candidates:

- HRM Jennah, Queen of Kryta and Regent of Ascalon
- Smodur the Unflinching, Imperator of the Iron Legion
- Knut Whitebear, Master of the Great Lodge
- Councillor Phlunt, Emissary of the Arcane Council
- The Pale Tree, Mother of the Sylvari
- Trahearne, Firstborn Sylvari and Marshal of the Pact

In addition to them, and although not invited or necessarily present at the summit, we also have the leaders of the orders and other influential groups:

- Almorra Soulkeeper, General of the Vigil
- Gixx, Steward of the Durmand Priory
- Spoiler, the Master of Whispers
- Lord Caudecus Beetlestone the Wise, Legate Minister of the Krytan Ministry
- Countess Anise, Master Exemplar of the Shining Blade
- Wade Samuelsson, Duke of Ebonhawke and Commander of the Ebon Vanguard
- Tribune Burntclaw, acting Imperator of the Flame Legion (already deceased)
- High Councillor Flax, Leader of the Arcane Council
- Councillor Yahk, Official Representative of the Inquest
- Faolain, Firstborn Sylvari and Grand Duchess of the Nightmare Court
- Captain Ellen Kiel, member of the Captain’s Council
- Captain Evon Gnashblade, proprietor of the Black Lion Trading Company
- The Master of Peace, leader of the Zephyrites

Of course, I don’t know who might be the one to meet her or his untimely end, but I am interested in learning what the community is thinking about what will happen. Hence, I set up two straw polls addressing the following two questions:

Question 1: Assuming that you were the one with her/his finger on the trigger, which Tyrian leader would you kill off?

Question 2: Who do you think is the most likely to be actually killed by the ANet writers in the Living Story?

I am also interested in hearing your reasonings and conspiracy theories in the comments, too. Thanks for participating!
—[end]—

~MRA

Tribune Burntclaw is dead, we kill him at the end of the least popular (but best end boss) CoF path.

The questions that should be asked are:

1. Which leader(s) would Mordremoth care about?
2. Which leadership would allow the rest to ‘fall in line’?

The first I would say Trahearne and the Pale Tree are prime candidates – the former leads an anti-ED group, the latter is blocking his corruption. The second I only see as the Pale Tree, as she is blocking his corruption – the Pale Tree dies and he can corrupt the sylvari race thus they will ‘fall in line.’

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tribune Burntclaw is dead, we kill him at the end of the least popular (but best end boss) CoF path.

Oops, sorry, my bad. I obviously missed that completely. Thanks for the correction.

So the Flame Legion is currently in total disarray, with no leadership at all?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The questions that should be asked are:

1. Which leader(s) would Mordremoth care about?
2. Which leadership would allow the rest to ‘fall in line’?

The first I would say Trahearne and the Pale Tree are prime candidates – the former leads an anti-ED group, the latter is blocking his corruption. The second I only see as the Pale Tree, as she is blocking his corruption – the Pale Tree dies and he can corrupt the sylvari race thus they will ‘fall in line.’

I agree that the Pale Tree would be a prime target, but maybe also the most difficult one to take down. Because of the two very important questions you raise I actually have another tinfoil hat theory: The whole summit is just a distraction for the player. (I mean a purposeful distraction by ANets writers, not in-game!) The true target is Faolain! The Nightmare Court is already established as general bad guys, but they are not actual minions of any dragon. However, the followers of Mordremoth (Aerin’s letter makes me believe there are more than just one) could scheme a bloody coup to take over the Court for their cause.

Hence, the current Nightmare Court leader would have to die. Then the rest will fall in line.

~MRA

You’ve also got as candidates -
The pact commander (player character)
Mai Trin (other leaders of Scarlet’s forces are possible but nameless)
Other unknown leaders in Maguuma. There could easily be another sylvari tree or centaur tribe that Mordremoth wants to control
The leader of the consortium (maybe they were supplying Scarlet all along)

All the Elder Dragons should be wanting to disassemble the Pact now so their leaders should be the targets. We got no answers from the Pale Tree about Mordremoth in the last episode (because our character was annoying stupid) so since the trailer suggests something bad happening at the summit (predictably) the Pale Tree might be the target. Aerin should call her mother rather than leader though.

If the Avatar of the Pale tree dies, but the Pale Tree itself lives, there could be an interesting plot continuation where the Sylvari still have the dream but are leaderless, in a way. That would make the ridiculous conversation the player had with the Pale Tree in the last episode even more annoying though.

While Faolain is not dead, the Nightmare Court is very much in disarray. Their infighting, as shown by TA explorable, goes to the point of murdering each other for the scraps she left behind. Killing her is unlikely to make anyone fall in line.

Neither Ellen Kiel nor Evon Gnashblade have any sort of power to make anyone fall in line upon death; Nor do most of the people listed.

While relevant leaderships, all – including the Queen. – would have successors or secondary management to take over.
The only two plot-relevant choices would be the Master of Peace and the Pale Tree; while there would be no benefit whatsoever in making the Zephyrites “fall in line” (which they would not, either way.), it is loosely tied to Aeryn’s attempts of forcing him to give him his “secrets”, and therefore still a possibility.

The statement being tied to the Pale Tree would be the most obvious choice. Really, unless they pulled another “IT WAS THE LEYLINES”-style random plot twist, it would be the only logic choice.

MRA.4758:

Oops, sorry, my bad. I obviously missed that completely. Thanks for the correction.

So the Flame Legion is currently in total disarray, with no leadership at all?

With Imperator Gaheron’s death the Flame Legion fell into civil war. The entire explorable version of CoF is based on this premise, and three powers had a good chance of taking charge – the three targets (a Tribune, a shaman and his effigy weapon, and Gaheron’s resurrection). With those strongest being wiped out, we didn’t quite know what happened to the Flame Legion leadership. Presumably still under civil war and one group became part of the Molten Alliance.

I agree that the Pale Tree would be a prime target, but maybe also the most difficult one to take down. Because of the two very important questions you raise I actually have another tinfoil hat theory: The whole summit is just a distraction for the player. (I mean a purposeful distraction by ANets writers, not in-game!) The true target is Faolain! The Nightmare Court is already established as general bad guys, but they are not actual minions of any dragon. However, the followers of Mordremoth (Aerin’s letter makes me believe there are more than just one) could scheme a bloody coup to take over the Court for their cause.

Hence, the current Nightmare Court leader would have to die. Then the rest will fall in line.

~MRA

With the current quality of the primary plot-telling under the Living World team, I don’t think we’ll be getting such ‘elaborate’ twists.

Honestly I felt this was a dig at the player and not necessarily any NPC in particular. We are the motivator to get these people coming together in order to find a solution. The player is arguably the most sensible out of all even if our dialog options are horrid.

Meh, I still think there’s going to be an attempt on the Pale Tree. Attack on LA Mk. II: Pale Tree Boogaloo?

I think it’s Knut Whitebear. Eir will take the position as leader and all Norn will fight all elder dragon instead of just the one they fear the most. The hunt intensifies.

But we see just the lights going off and something arriving (from its PoV). We don’t even can tell that someone dies there and if it’s the case then it would be possible that Jennah gets captured (again). Whatever arrives there, it seems to counter the magic of the Pale Tree (since I think those lights are powered from its magic).

Horst Hortensie.5420:

I think it’s Knut Whitebear. Eir will take the position as leader and all Norn will fight all elder dragon instead of just the one they fear the most. The hunt intensifies.

But we see just the lights going off and something arriving (from its PoV). We don’t even can tell that someone dies there and if it’s the case then it would be possible that Jennah gets captured (again). Whatever arrives there, it seems to counter the magic of the Pale Tree (since I think those lights are powered from its magic).

I had cloverfield flashbacks. I wouldn’t mind running from a giant cloverfield monster. Although it would be more fun to do in DR.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

With the current quality of the primary plot-telling under the Living World team, I don’t think we’ll be getting such ‘elaborate’ twists.

I understand what you mean. But, to be fair, they already achieved a similar “surprise twist” with the “Ascalon, I free you from this curse!” trailer.

~MRA

MRA.4758:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

With the current quality of the primary plot-telling under the Living World team, I don’t think we’ll be getting such ‘elaborate’ twists.

I understand what you mean. But, to be fair, they already achieved a similar “surprise twist” with the “Ascalon, I free you from this curse!” trailer.

~MRA

Which, to be fair, failed, was horribly written and out of the blue, and will likely not be addressed until way later. I think we all would have been better off without that.

MRA.4758:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

With the current quality of the primary plot-telling under the Living World team, I don’t think we’ll be getting such ‘elaborate’ twists.

I understand what you mean. But, to be fair, they already achieved a similar “surprise twist” with the “Ascalon, I free you from this curse!” trailer.

~MRA

It wasn’t much of a surprise plot twist to Konig. If I remember right, he predicted the ritual would fail and Rytlock would be “put on a bus” the same day that trailer got released.

And low and behold…

Erukk.1408:

MRA.4758:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

With the current quality of the primary plot-telling under the Living World team, I don’t think we’ll be getting such ‘elaborate’ twists.

I understand what you mean. But, to be fair, they already achieved a similar “surprise twist” with the “Ascalon, I free you from this curse!” trailer.

~MRA

It wasn’t much of a surprise plot twist to Konig. If I remember right, he predicted the ritual would fail and Rytlock would be “put on a bus” the same day that trailer got released.

And low and behold…

Confirmed that Konig is secretly a disgruntled ANet employee /tinfoil

If I were an employee, I’d be secretly altering old content to make them actually enjoyable and not overly simple thanks to power creeps.

And I’d have been pointing out all the loop holes.

Though I don’t think I predicted that the day of the trailer… don’t think I even logged on that day. And what I said about being put on the bus was any Destiny’s Edge character – with Zojja being the most likely case. Rytlock failing the ritual was rather obvious, for mechanical and design reasons.

“If the Avatar of the Pale tree dies, but the Pale Tree itself lives, there could be an interesting plot continuation where the Sylvari still have the dream but are leaderless, in a way. That would make the ridiculous conversation the player had with the Pale Tree in the last episode even more annoying though.”

So I got that nearly right! We didn’t get any useful information from the Pale Tree last visit and this time she’s put out of commission and barely has time to give us a cryptic vision.

Lostwingman.5034:

I had cloverfield flashbacks. I wouldn’t mind running from a giant cloverfield monster. Although it would be more fun to do in DR.

Considering that, I actually like that. A dungeon gauntlet if you will, where all you’re doing is surviving by traversing obstacles to avoid being grasped by thorns and what not. Though that seems like a lot of work, so many details but then you also run the risk of mundane and repetitive mechanics being present. Telegraph here = dodge.

Erukk.1408:

MRA.4758:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

With the current quality of the primary plot-telling under the Living World team, I don’t think we’ll be getting such ‘elaborate’ twists.

I understand what you mean. But, to be fair, they already achieved a similar “surprise twist” with the “Ascalon, I free you from this curse!” trailer.

~MRA

It wasn’t much of a surprise plot twist to Konig. If I remember right, he predicted the ritual would fail and Rytlock would be “put on a bus” the same day that trailer got released.

And low and behold…

It was fairly obvious that he would fail. I mean, that’s a lot of work and the game just wasn’t designed to be fully persistent. To that affect, the Dynamic Events actually proved to be holding a lot of potential back. Where that not the case (say look at City of Heroe’s Atlas Park PVP Zone) they could have altered the story. But it just seems like so much work it would require an expansion-worth of content a GW2 2.0 if you will. Would be awesome to see them pull it off, change the intro for the Charr so veteran players can have their “Well when I played…” Moments while maybe even allowing them to go into and take part in the new intro. New players would get a whole bunch of lore references to old content but also have a new experience.

Unfortunately the player story involving Zhaitan would act like a very big obstacle that I don’t really have confidence in Arenanet managing well enough.

Stooperdale.3560:

“If the Avatar of the Pale tree dies, but the Pale Tree itself lives, there could be an interesting plot continuation where the Sylvari still have the dream but are leaderless, in a way.

Depends how much leadership the Avatar actually does.

The Sylvari are not very hierarchical. They don’t take direct orders from the Pale Tree. And there are still the firstborn and other Sylvari leaders. The Wardens would still be intact, menders and shapers would still do their jobs.

To some Sylvari – like bandits and pirates, it would make no difference at all.