Guild Wars 2

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hidden-arcana-role-playing-the-revenant/

So, Legends as channeled by the Revenant aren’t just unthinking echoes from the past; they’re the actual characters they represent, who apparently still fully exist in the mist and have the ability to communicate with mortal Revenants freely and openly.

Furthermore, some of them are willing to share what they know with present day scholars. The implications of this could be huge. Glint’s knowledge of the elder dragons is no longer lost.

It’s possible that they’re as talkative as the Echo of Turai Ossa, however.

But it does seem that the legends are just spirits being channeled. Which makes Revenants full out ritualists in heavy armor and with martial arts mixed in. Which is far less interesting to me.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s possible that they’re as talkative as the Echo of Turai Ossa, however.

But it does seem that the legends are just spirits being channeled. Which makes Revenants full out ritualists in heavy armor and with martial arts mixed in. Which is far less interesting to me.

If you read the article, it’s made pretty clear that they’re lucid. Mallyx will actually argue with the player in a back-and-forth sort of thing, for instance.

EDIT: Also, the echo of Turai Ossa was just that: an echo, a mindless copy of his ghost. The revenant legends are explicitly not just echoes.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s possible that they’re as talkative as the Echo of Turai Ossa, however.

But it does seem that the legends are just spirits being channeled. Which makes Revenants full out ritualists in heavy armor and with martial arts mixed in. Which is far less interesting to me.

Revenants are dervish + ritualist. Instead of becoming avatars of the Gods you channel powerful spirits.

Can Revenant be possessed?

Pyro.4765:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s possible that they’re as talkative as the Echo of Turai Ossa, however.

But it does seem that the legends are just spirits being channeled. Which makes Revenants full out ritualists in heavy armor and with martial arts mixed in. Which is far less interesting to me.

If you read the article, it’s made pretty clear that they’re lucid. Mallyx will actually argue with the player in a back-and-forth sort of thing, for instance.

EDIT: Also, the echo of Turai Ossa was just that: an echo, a mindless copy of his ghost. The revenant legends are explicitly not just echoes.

Actually…

The Mists remember what came before, and echoes of those who left an especially powerful imprint on the world of Tyria can still be found there.

I kinda see them, and the Turai echo, as being the same sort of thing as we see in Fractals- essentially a spontaneous recreation of someone as they existed in the past. As we see with Turai and the Fractal entities, being an echo doesn’t stop them from responding or reacting to those around them, and if Dessa is indeed one of the category then they may even be convincing enough to seem like they’re real. Of course, if all that is true I have to wonder whether there’s any true difference between an echo and a spirit… besides that there can possibly be multiple echoes channeled by multiple revenants. If it really does just boil down to the prospect of an infinite number of perfectly copied consciousnesses, ANet may be opening a Pandora’s Box here.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Pyro.4765:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s possible that they’re as talkative as the Echo of Turai Ossa, however.

But it does seem that the legends are just spirits being channeled. Which makes Revenants full out ritualists in heavy armor and with martial arts mixed in. Which is far less interesting to me.

If you read the article, it’s made pretty clear that they’re lucid. Mallyx will actually argue with the player in a back-and-forth sort of thing, for instance.

EDIT: Also, the echo of Turai Ossa was just that: an echo, a mindless copy of his ghost. The revenant legends are explicitly not just echoes.

Actually…

The Mists remember what came before, and echoes of those who left an especially powerful imprint on the world of Tyria can still be found there.

I kinda see them, and the Turai echo, as being the same sort of thing as we see in Fractals- essentially a spontaneous recreation of someone as they existed in the past. As we see with Turai and the Fractal entities, being an echo doesn’t stop them from responding or reacting to those around them, and if Dessa is indeed one of the category then they may even be convincing enough to seem like they’re real. Of course, if all that is true I have to wonder whether there’s any true difference between an echo and a spirit… besides that there can possibly be multiple echoes channeled by multiple revenants. If it really does just boil down to the prospect of an infinite number of perfectly copied consciousnesses, ANet may be opening a Pandora’s Box here.

“…to continue the stories of the legends by making them active and aware. "
“A revenant’s legends are not merely echoes of the past but are fully sentient, with opinions and personalities of their own.”

I feel like it’s simpler to assume that you’re actually communicating with the spirits of those who came before than recreations, especially since some of them have already been quite active in the mists previously (Shiro, for instance).

Pyro.4765:

If you read the article, it’s made pretty clear that they’re lucid. Mallyx will actually argue with the player in a back-and-forth sort of thing, for instance.

EDIT: Also, the echo of Turai Ossa was just that: an echo, a mindless copy of his ghost. The revenant legends are explicitly not just echoes.

“What this means for the relationship between revenant and legend varies between individuals, as some legends are considerably more thrilled about being channeled than others. In fact, some of them are downright cranky about it; Mallyx in particular is so offended at having his immense power borrowed by upstart mortals that using some of those powers will take health from the revenant.”

It rather open to interpretation, really. We aren’t sure what the echo was. It certainly didn’t seem mindless since it reacted to changing situations and new places. And all we have about anything close to ‘back and forth’ with revenants is a ‘relationship’, and that the legends have an opinion on their power being used – Mallyx doesn’t like it, Jalis does.

If you’re referring to this line however:

Activating skills will occasionally trigger in-game dialogue from the legends, and the player character will sometimes respond with race-specific dialogue of their own. Depending on the legend your revenant has summoned between fights, you may also hear some small talk out of combat.

That is no different than standard profession and race-profession dialogue. Such as when a charr necromancer shouts “Rest easy, servant.” when a minion dies. The only difference is that for these shouts, it’d be like the minions talk back – which an echo did.

Pyro.4765:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Pyro.4765:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s possible that they’re as talkative as the Echo of Turai Ossa, however.

But it does seem that the legends are just spirits being channeled. Which makes Revenants full out ritualists in heavy armor and with martial arts mixed in. Which is far less interesting to me.

If you read the article, it’s made pretty clear that they’re lucid. Mallyx will actually argue with the player in a back-and-forth sort of thing, for instance.

EDIT: Also, the echo of Turai Ossa was just that: an echo, a mindless copy of his ghost. The revenant legends are explicitly not just echoes.

Actually…

The Mists remember what came before, and echoes of those who left an especially powerful imprint on the world of Tyria can still be found there.

I kinda see them, and the Turai echo, as being the same sort of thing as we see in Fractals- essentially a spontaneous recreation of someone as they existed in the past. As we see with Turai and the Fractal entities, being an echo doesn’t stop them from responding or reacting to those around them, and if Dessa is indeed one of the category then they may even be convincing enough to seem like they’re real. Of course, if all that is true I have to wonder whether there’s any true difference between an echo and a spirit… besides that there can possibly be multiple echoes channeled by multiple revenants. If it really does just boil down to the prospect of an infinite number of perfectly copied consciousnesses, ANet may be opening a Pandora’s Box here.

“…to continue the stories of the legends by making them active and aware. "
“A revenant’s legends are not merely echoes of the past but are fully sentient, with opinions and personalities of their own.”

I feel like it’s simpler to assume that you’re actually communicating with the spirits of those who came before than recreations, especially since some of them have already been quite active in the mists previously (Shiro, for instance).

Turai’s echo was very much aware and sentient. Sapient is a bit of a question, because we have so little interaction with it.

But it’s odd, if we’re simply communicating with the spirits of these legendary figures, why have Anet continuously gone away from ever mentioning the words “spirit” or “soul” or “ghost”?

Why ALWAYS go with ‘legend’? Why never go with term that a ritualist would use?

That begs a very interesting question.

But echoes aren’t necessarily mindless.

We’ll find out when HoT – or more information – comes.

Personally, I’m hoping that the revenant’s just channeling the power – and mentality – of these legends and not actual souls. Because it means not only is Jalis dead, but that it limits the possibilites for what can be summoned from a roleplay/fan-fiction standpoint – if it were merely legends, given how the Mists functions with echoes and memories being not only of the past but present and future, it means that revenants could theoretically summon legends of future beings; whereas if it’s just souls… not so.

Maybe it’s kinda like that zombie girl taking on the characteristics of the people whose brains she eats in that show iZombie, ’cept maybe instead of having visions of what the dead people saw, the revenant has visions of the legendary personages themselves, and these visionary personages talk to him/her.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That is no different than standard profession and race-profession dialogue. Such as when a charr necromancer shouts “Rest easy, servant.” when a minion dies. The only difference is that for these shouts, it’d be like the minions talk back – which an echo did.

I think that’s probably more because the game has a limited voice acting budget than anything. Regardless, you’re right, most things are open to interpretation and we lack the specifics about the precise nature of legends.

But supposing we go with the “if it walks like a Jalis, quacks like a Jalis and acts like a Jalis” explanation, it raises some interesting questions. For instance, how do Zephyrites react to someone with Glint riding around on their soul? How do reverent humans react to someone channeling a servant of Abaddon?

Another interesting, potentially worrisome question- could Abaddon or Zhaitan be channeled, and if not, why? If you’re looking for an “especially powerful imprint on the world”, it’d be difficult to beat entities that have reshaped entire regions. I suppose they could always take the easy ‘too powerful to handle’ answer, but where is the line drawn?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Another interesting, potentially worrisome question- could Abaddon or Zhaitan be channeled, and if not, why? If you’re looking for an “especially powerful imprint on the world”, it’d be difficult to beat entities that have reshaped entire regions. I suppose they could always take the easy ‘too powerful to handle’ answer, but where is the line drawn?

A newbie or reckless Revenant channeling more than they could handle might be a cool plot hook in the future. End up sort of like how Svanir did.

And we’ll go messing with channeling sentient echoes of both Mallyx and Shiro.

In the famous words of Trahearne; “This won’t end well…”

Pyro.4765:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Another interesting, potentially worrisome question- could Abaddon or Zhaitan be channeled, and if not, why? If you’re looking for an “especially powerful imprint on the world”, it’d be difficult to beat entities that have reshaped entire regions. I suppose they could always take the easy ‘too powerful to handle’ answer, but where is the line drawn?

A newbie or reckless Revenant channeling more than they could handle might be a cool plot hook in the future. End up sort of like how Svanir did.

You know what would be awesome for a halloween event?

A revenant accidentally channeling dhuum. and then suddenly he breaks loose into the world and all heroes have to try to stop him from turning the world into a living wasteland.

Until we get more information on the matter, I think I’m going to be sticking to my “Legends are just the Mistborn cliff notes version of the actual being” theory. They have the general knowledge, personality, and power of their subject, but they still aren’t the subject themselves.

Edit: “The Mists remember what came before, and echoes of those who left an especially powerful imprint on the world of Tyria can still be found there. A revenant calls upon these legendary historical figures,…”

“A revenant’s legends are not merely echoes of the past but are fully sentient, with opinions and personalities of their own.”

Ya, I think i’ll stick with my Legendary Cliff Notes theory.

castlemanic.3198:

You know what would be awesome for a halloween event?

A revenant accidentally channeling dhuum. and then suddenly he breaks loose into the world and all heroes have to try to stop him from turning the world into a living wasteland.

It would kinda depend on whether or not we’re actually summoning the spirit itself or just some Mistborn legend version of the being, because if he could be released just by “summoning” him from the Mists, I’m sure his numerous remaining servants probably already tried that.

Though, I’ll pray that Anet keeps their word on Abaddon’s storyline being done, on that other idea. I can almost see the possibility of him, not so much Zhaitan really, overwhelming a revenant to control him or her, but I think that’s just a bit of a cringe worthy storyline. Because what’s stopping any number of other powerful beings from doing the same thing at the end of the day?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Another interesting, potentially worrisome question- could Abaddon or Zhaitan be channeled, and if not, why? If you’re looking for an “especially powerful imprint on the world”, it’d be difficult to beat entities that have reshaped entire regions. I suppose they could always take the easy ‘too powerful to handle’ answer, but where is the line drawn?

It certainly isn’t a case of imprinting the world, as Mallyx had 0 influence on Tyria itself.

For Abaddon returning, I don’t think that’s possible if it’s a case of channeling souls. Abaddon’s being was absorbed by Kormir, and that included his knowledge, power, and broken will – so what we’d be summoning is most likely to be Kormir, not Abaddon.

For Zhaitan, well if Rytlock truly does summon Glint, and Duncan truly would have been able to channel the Great Destroyer’s soul and power, then it stands to reason that the same could be done for Zhaitan unless he pulled a Darkspawn Archdemon from Dragon Age move – his body died, but his soul/essence/being simply moved onto another nearby minion (Tequatl anyone) thus there would be nothing for a revenant to summon in such a case.

Dondarrion.2748:

And we’ll go messing with channeling sentient echoes of both Mallyx and Shiro.

In the famous words of Trahearne; “This won’t end well…”

The famous words of Trahearne that were removed from the game and replaced with “Taste my blade!” or something equally sad.

If Mallyx whines, what is Shiro going to do?