Guild Wars 2

In today’s patch notes:

“Magic energy has been surging around the ley lines.”

Orly.

I’m honestly shocked with this turn of events. I never thought I would come to see such a thing to occur. Shocked, I say, shocked!

An interesting development… I wonder what it means?

Cael.3960:

An interesting development… I wonder what it means?

Cool…did something drop that, or did you find it?

I checked Glint’s egg as someone on Reddit suggested. Not sure if it’s always looked quite like this…

Loot drop from a Jormag minion for me. But I’ve a suspicion any dragon minion might do

Cael.3960:

An interesting development… I wonder what it means?

I’ll be greatly disappointed if she doesn’t use an identification kit on it, because that item is just asking for one.

Tanith.5264:

I checked Glint’s egg as someone on Reddit suggested. Not sure if it’s always looked quite like this…

Looks exactly like I remember it, what’s supposed to be different?

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Tanith.5264:

I checked Glint’s egg as someone on Reddit suggested. Not sure if it’s always looked quite like this…

Looks exactly like I remember it, what’s supposed to be different?

Couldn’t really remember myself…but after making my previous post a guildmate told me it also looks the same to him, so I guess that’s a false trail.

There is omeone who mapped the direction of the lines on a map.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4hy40t/new_ley_line_events_show_magic_flowing_toward/

Which I think is fine, though the energy is flowing towards these cross sections of the ley lines, instead of from them.

However the theory he proposes only makes sense, if every dragin able to pull energy along the ley lines, from any point they have access to and they ignore physics (which is a given in a fantasy world), as the pulling power would have to override each other and/or has to be stronger, the further away they are from their origin, or else the flow should go towards the EDs and not away from them.
Right now the ley lines seem to work like a cable.

Cael.3960:

Loot drop from a Jormag minion for me. But I’ve a suspicion any dragon minion might do

Got mine from a chak just now.

Illuminati.

Interesting. Could be just because they also go after ley energy, or it could confirm the small theory that chak might be the DSD’s minions.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Interesting. Could be just because they also go after ley energy, or it could confirm the small theory that chak might be the DSD’s minions.

Nah, I got mine in an fractal. Unfortunatly I don’t know which one, as I did four that day and only one featured dragon minions (ice elemental fractal), so it could be a possibility.

Oh, ley lines…I guess we are back to square one.

Ley lines, dragons, magic, asura devic….hrrrr…..

Jaken.6801:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Interesting. Could be just because they also go after ley energy, or it could confirm the small theory that chak might be the DSD’s minions.

Nah, I got mine in an fractal. Unfortunatly I don’t know which one, as I did four that day and only one featured dragon minions (ice elemental fractal), so it could be a possibility.

Volcanic fractal’s boss is implied (still unconfirmed) to be a living being turned destroyer (when asked about that boss and if it’s corrupted by Primordus during an interview, Jeff Ree and Scott started talking about how Primordus can indeed corrupt living beings, but rarely does so). And Thaumanova has icebrood wolves in it – so that’s three fractals with (theoretical) dragon minions.

The dialogue when turning the item to Ela Makkay does state that the PC got it off of a dragon minion, so I’m rather doubtful that it’d drop from non-dragon minions.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Interesting. Could be just because they also go after ley energy, or it could confirm the small theory that chak might be the DSD’s minions.

Anybody tried getting one from a Karka? Would be interesting if both those and chak were Steve’s minions.

It was stated a couple years ago that the karka are unrelated to the Deep Sea Dragon. I think Matthew Medina posted about it on the forums around the time of the Return to Southsun.

Shiren.9532:

It was stated a couple years ago that the karka are unrelated to the Deep Sea Dragon. I think Matthew Medina posted about it on the forums around the time of the Return to Southsun.

Ah yes and the next dragon was clearly not called Mordremoth or was supposed to be the jungle dragon…

Oh wait…

Basicly, things can easily change in PR talk, but since it was Medina I might give it the benefit of the doubt.

Anet never said that Mordremoth wasn’t the jungle dragon’s name, and never said that Mordremoth was never not supposed to be Mordremoth (though they’ve never stated that Mordremoth was always planned to be the second dragon either).

Your examples don’t prove your point. And something as crucial as the origins of the karka is pretty kitten important to keep straight.

Just to clarify something I got wrong. I can’t find Matthew saying karka are not Deep Sea Dragon minions (which is what I meant but “unrelated to”) but I did find the quote I was thinking of.

MatthewMedina.5419:

Canonically, yes the Lost Shores weekend and lead-up was set after the events of the Guild Wars 2 personal story and the defeat of Zhaitan, so this is partially what made it possible for the karka to establish a clawhold on Southsun Cove.

As to whether there can be risen karka: while it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility (although pitting dragon corruption vs. karka impenetrable shell would be an experiment I would be interested to watch), the karka are recent arrivals to the surface from their original home deep in the ocean. The ocean is a big enough place that the karka managed to settle on Southsun without encountering many risen, and they avoided Orr for the same reasons they fled their home. The karka are an old, old species so they have encountered Elder Dragons and their minions before…and they’re certainly smart enough to understand the threat they represent.

Two things suggest the karka are not Deep Sea Dragon minions (although it’s not explicitly stated as I first claimed). One is the possibility of them becoming risen – afaik it’s still true that dragons can’t corrupt other dragon minions (I think few excecptions exist such as Inquest experiments like Subject Alpha etc). The second, and more convincing imo, is the line “The ocean is a big enough place that the karka managed to settle on Southsun without encountering many risen, and they avoided Orr for the same reasons they fled their home” which is very similar to stories about krait and quaggan – both were displaced from deeper waters by what we assume is the Deep Sea Dragon. If they “avoided Orr for the same reasons they fled their home” it suggests they are avoiding an Elder Dragon.

Basically I think he was suggesting the karka are not dragon minions, rather they are avoiding dragons just like the krait and quaggan.

I believe there was another post which was more blatant in stating that they fled the DSD, but I’m not 100% certain.

Shiren.9532:

afaik it’s still true that dragons can’t corrupt other dragon minions (I think few excecptions exist such as Inquest experiments like Subject Alpha etc).

It is never stated nor implied in any way shape or form that dragon minions cannot be corrupted by another Elder Dragon.

We merely don’t see it happen – but keep in mind that we’ve only had one case of two different kinds of dragon minions even coming remotely close to them – which would be the mordrem in Iron Marches.

The concept that dragon minions are immune to other dragons’ corruption is purely misconception created by people who used that as “evidence” as to why sylvari are dragon minions before it was confirmed (and since used the confirmation as proof their “evidence” was right) despite the complete lack of correlation and all evidence of sylvari’s “immunity” to other dragons’ corruption being, in fact, the Dream which we have known since release is neither unique to sylvari (White Stag) nor shared by all sylvari (Malyck).

Anyone notice the additional ley-line events that occur in tandem with the ones from last week? Someone mentioned them on reddit. One is west of Valslake WP in Snowden drifts, one is west of Judgement WP in Mount Maelstrom and north of Brandview WP in Blazeridge Steppes.

I completed these additional events, but they’re exactly like the old ones and give no additional things that I’ve noticed.

Yeah, seems Anet’s doing another ‘gradual spread of things’ like the vines at waypoints or clearing out Fort Vandal or the Vinewrath’s encroachment during S2.

Each spot seems to be a location of 3 smaller ley line convergences.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Yeah, seems Anet’s doing another ‘gradual spread of things’ like the vines at waypoints or clearing out Fort Vandal or the Vinewrath’s encroachment during S2.

Each spot seems to be a location of 3 smaller ley line convergences.

While I wished some new events to be added throughout the game, these cookie cutter ones feel a bit to easy.

I personaly would have liked if they add new archievmentchains to cerain maps with some unique rewards, to make old maps more relevant, than just simple farm fests. Like adding a Collection/Quest towards Lonars Pass. There are several things connected to Scarlet there (Marrionete, Steam creatures, her hideout), so they could educate players on her in something like “Scarlet’s Downfall” (pushing players towards TA and dry top as well), in which they endup in a room in the Priory and have access to all research and left over assets of S1 (like hologram messages, books) and the opportunity to get some Scarlet karma rewards like her weapons, armor (pull it out of the gem-shop for that) and maybe some of the color cores.

Players are rewarded, educated on the past and some old content gets used again.

So yeah, right now it seems like we have a S2 repeat, which could be interesting, but again we are only following magic energy again.

If they want to confuse us, then there should be new events towards the parts of the map where ED minion territory starts. At possible new map locations, where we have to bolster up our defenses.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It is never stated nor implied in any way shape or form that dragon minions cannot be corrupted by another Elder Dragon.

We merely don’t see it happen – but keep in mind that we’ve only had one case of two different kinds of dragon minions even coming remotely close to them – which would be the mordrem in Iron Marches.

True. Although we haven’t seen a single case outside subject alpha, nor do I know or can I find anything related to the story behind subject alpha so I can’t say in how much this is actually really reliable for the lore? But just because we haven’t seen it isn’t proof for either theory to be correct, nor would we actually see said corruption happening if it happens to already corrupted minions of another elder dragon. This theory needs to be proven through the storytelling by anet somehow? But like you said, the minions really stay away from eachother. And in many cases certain circumstances have to be met in order to have corruption happen (like seeking of power with sons of svanir).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The concept that dragon minions are immune to other dragons’ corruption is purely misconception created by people who used that as “evidence” as to why sylvari are dragon minions before it was confirmed (and since used the confirmation as proof their “evidence” was right) despite the complete lack of correlation and all evidence of sylvari’s “immunity” to other dragons’ corruption being, in fact, the Dream which we have known since release is neither unique to sylvari (White Stag) nor shared by all sylvari (Malyck).

Interesting you say this. After living story 1 ended I written my own theory here on the forum based on my observations, and looking back on it, I’m happy to say I was very much spot on.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Sylvari-s-Corruption-Theory-spoilers/first

Yes, one of the evidences I provided was that sylvari couldn’t or weren’t corrupted by zhaitan, but most of my theory was about the working of the dream and nightmare to explain my theory.

Either way, Sylvari haven’t been around for a long time but they have been heavily involved with the battle against zhaitan. There are many of them in the three different factions and none ever turned into a risen.

Now in the magus falls area, large areas have been corrupted or at least leave traces of mordremoth’s influence. The only exception is the area where the chak live. Why didn’t mordremoth keep them for what they are while they were eating on leyline energy, energy mordy wanted himself I would believe. And howcome we don’t see any chak getting corrupted (spiders didn’t get corrupted either though). Basically everything that lives in that area we see in a mordrem form, and while we see so many chak, none is ever corrupted. I find this intrigueing, just like the underwater tunnels underneath Tangled Depths.

There is one other case than Subject Alpha – Kudu’s Monster. And we have enough lore for Alpha to know that it was an Inquest experiment on creating a dragon champion of multriple dragon energies that they could control. Alpha was a failure, Kudu’s Monster was a supposed success.

Both are very much canon and not in question. There’s no reason to question its “reliability in lore”. We know it can happen. The question is: why don’t we see it happen without third party influence?

As to your theory, you were only right in how every other bloke who theorized “sylvari=dragon minions!!!1!!1!” did. Nightmare has proven to not be coming from Mordremoth at all (given by the fact that the Nightmare Court fight Mordremoth too), and the Dream is explicitly stated to be what allows Mordremoth to get into sylvari heads. So by all indication, you were wrong on every account but tying their origins to Mordremoth and that the Tower of Nightmares hints at Mordremoth’s domain of mind. Which everyone else for the theory had kind of theorized too.

As to the chak and corruption – keep in mind that the chak aren’t actually always right next to Mordremoth’s corruption – they’re deep underground. It doesn’t show so well in-game due to the casual inclines and scaling, but the chak hives aren’t near the surface (nor is Rata Novus).

In fact, if anything, I think the lack of interaction between chak and mordrem is evidence against the theory of them being dragon minions (I’d take a moment to note that I am in favor of this theory, but I’m willing to denote there is counter-evidence), because risen did not ever avoid confrontation with sylvari – the only case we see where those of dragon minion origins collide. A prime example: Rhiann’s Respite a sylvari-made oasis that is repeatedly attacked by risen.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

There is one other case than Subject Alpha – Kudu’s Monster. And we have enough lore for Alpha to know that it was an Inquest experiment on creating a dragon champion of multriple dragon energies that they could control. Alpha was a failure, Kudu’s Monster was a supposed success.

Both are very much canon and not in question. There’s no reason to question its “reliability in lore”. We know it can happen. The question is: why don’t we see it happen without third party influence?

Well I wasn’t sure about it which is why I added a question mark. If it’s canon, it would be much appreciated if you can provide a source?
Can’t find it in the wiki, maybe in one of the books or other source?

My first guess to why it isn’t happening without third party influence is that anet simply didn’t think of making it happen yet? Another reason could be that the experiments managed to “corrupt” a being without integrating the will of said elder dragon that would normally come with the corruption? Just an idea and not based on anything really :P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As to your theory, you were only right in how every other bloke who theorized “sylvari=dragon minions!!!1!!1!” did. Nightmare has proven to not be coming from Mordremoth at all (given by the fact that the Nightmare Court fight Mordremoth too), and the Dream is explicitly stated to be what allows Mordremoth to get into sylvari heads. So by all indication, you were wrong on every account but tying their origins to Mordremoth and that the Tower of Nightmares hints at Mordremoth’s domain of mind. Which everyone else for the theory had kind of theorized too.

Honestly I felt pretty alone in this theory when I wrote about it at that moment or discussed it in other threads because most just told me that it didn’t make any sense. And didn’t the nightmare court share the same “Dreams” as all other sylvari? Reason to why not all of them were corrupted. Just calling yourself “nightmare court” doesn’t disconnect you from the Dreams I’d say now. I might not had it right entirely but I was kitten close anyway

Everything in the game is canon. Alpha uses abilities of five different dragon corruption, as well as commanding various dragon minions (risen, destroyer, mordrem, icebrood – not sure on branded). The source is the fight itself, the lore around it coming from the dungeon – dialogue, fight, PoI names. Like a lot of GW lore, you gotta put together the pieces.

What’s not known about Alpha is why it’s unable to be controlled while Kudu’s Monster was (supposedly), and which – if any – dragon(s) it follows.

As to the Nightmare Court – yes, they share the same Dream, and are all still connected to it. And by all indication some did fall to Mordremoth too. Stavemaster Adryn says lines that are commonly used by Nightmare Courtiers (“Gaze into Nightmare!” iirc).

The only way to disconnect from the Dream is by being Soundless, but even that’s not really a full disconnect. The Dream and the Pale Tree can still break through the meditations and whatnot used to silence them, if the call is strong enough. So said Scott McGough in an interview, at least.

But the Dream was how Mordremoth turned the sylvari, so it wouldn’t be what saved the Courtiers.

There are new events with this patch.

The itneresting thing for me is that we only have destoryer activity in mount malestrom, but not in Kessex, even though the ley line flow passes through there.

The other events happen randomly along the ley lines, attracting ED minions.
So far, the events follow a line roughly towards the direction we think the EDs are currently located, except for Primordus, who is a big mystery.

What if the stonger activity indicates the direction to where their master is?
Jormag and Kalkratorik fit.

For Priomordus two directions seem fitting.
Going towards Orr and the fire island chain and going towards Elona.

The fire island chain would be a very obvious place for him, since it is basicaly his element and we have a bloodstone there.

Elona would be interesting, as it would mean we woud have two EDs in one location.
We would be able to see how they interact with each other (since we don’t really know, even though CoE did some experiements).
We would have a very interesting szenario, as we got the Elonian People, Palava Joko and two dragons fighting for the same space.
We could even see a glass dessert at some point (thanks to the heat).

I really hope these events have some meaning and don’t end up being nothing in the long run.

I wouldn’t say they point to the Elder Dragons at all. None point to the Far Shiverpeaks, and while one does point towards Glint’s Lair, Kralkatorrik isn’t there anymore. And we got one pointing to The Artesian Waters/Arah.

Nothing necessarily mandates that the Elder Dragons sit on ley line nexus’s either – especially if they’re mobile like Jormag, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik are (or were last we knew).

As for Primordus’ location – if Mount Maelstrom is any indication, we might fight him in Deldrimor Front (which could serve as an accessway into the Depths), or if the Great Collapse theory proves true, we might be fighting him in Woodland Cascades. If we fight him.

I’m rather doubtful we’d fight him in the Ring of Fire. Simply because while yes it is fire, that’s just too boring to me. I’d rather fight him in an area transformed into his domain, rather than him seeking out his domain. After all, lore puts him as clearing out tracks of underground in the past 200 years.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I wouldn’t say they point to the Elder Dragons at all. None point to the Far Shiverpeaks, and while one does point towards Glint’s Lair, Kralkatorrik isn’t there anymore. And we got one pointing to The Artesian Waters/Arah.

Nothing necessarily mandates that the Elder Dragons sit on ley line nexus’s either – especially if they’re mobile like Jormag, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik are (or were last we knew).

As for Primordus’ location – if Mount Maelstrom is any indication, we might fight him in Deldrimor Front (which could serve as an accessway into the Depths), or if the Great Collapse theory proves true, we might be fighting him in Woodland Cascades. If we fight him.

I’m rather doubtful we’d fight him in the Ring of Fire. Simply because while yes it is fire, that’s just too boring to me. I’d rather fight him in an area transformed into his domain, rather than him seeking out his domain. After all, lore puts him as clearing out tracks of underground in the past 200 years.

There is the “trajectory” of the leylines, that point into their direction (there are always 3 directions at each events, which point in specific directions)

They don’t seem to be unintentional.

That being said, I agree with the fire island chain. it would indeed be boring.
I was just pointing out possibilities.

Except that, as I said, they’re coming from those trajectories rather than going to – if it were pointing to Elder Dragons, you’d think they’d be pulling magic towards them rather than pushing it away.

And it seems the Snowden ones have four directions (often over mountains though).

No, they don’t seem unintentional, since they seem to twist in just a way as to point to the same direction (roughly) from point to point on the maps. They seem to point to each other and two other locations per – currently.

I’m not up on where ley lines are heading, but while hunting bandits in Brisban I couldn’t help but focus on that bridge to nowhere the bandits have been eternally working on toward the north, into the Wastes. I wouldn’t be surprised if we get another Maguuma Wastes zone or two then head north toward Janthir Bay. Especially since White Mantle activity seems to be radiating out of that direction.
If there were some dragon activity attached to these developments, I would guess that’s a decent area for Primordus to play with? It would certainly be more interesting to have volcanic activity, canyons, crevasses, and caverns to deal with up there, rather than more simple desert-scape. Though I’d prefer to have a fully-realized underworld rather than a surface region for him.
Meanwhile, the leylines could also be suggesting Jormag has moved toward the Woodland Cascade.

That is actually more of Kryta. Been confirmed long ago that it was a scrapped zone, I believe.

I think about undeground content. All those maps can serve as roof for new undeground mazes: of destroyers from Primodous or leyline with chaks. If chaks are where leylines are then maybe we could see them to be introduced in central tyria.

I teorize that leyline in blazzeridge stepps under both Searing Crystals, Serenity Temple and up to Ruins of Surmia. Even if charrs and humans didn’t know much about leyline, they still were capable of tapping into magic when they needed it.

Flame Legion from 250y ago, they tapped into Primodous (even mostly cuz of his attempt to awake) having fully dormant Kralka ;x

Nextly about leylines that sprout accross Tyria, they sprout probably in places where we can’t defend, so who is defend them? Other races, organizations or these are places of free meal for dragon minions.

Nextly why dragon minions consume it? It was Mordy who was consumed it, he didn’t allow so much to his minions to tap into it (that on in dry top thrasher). Other dragons have their own politics about it?

Nextly about leyline did any leyline sprout in sea? maybe 4th expansion will hit point about it.

Bandits, so yes, dame. I always will look forwrad to see attempt to destroy that dame. Waterfall in sw of quennsdale. River that cross whole Kryta from north to south – nw of kessex hills, west of fort salma. Bridge in north of Brisban Wildlands. That stuff in centre west of Brisban where much bandits camps and inquest researches.

Maybe qol change to also start leyline-gliding with interating with leylines? becouse finding a little higher places to jump, deploy glider and then go onto leyline. The make those leylines higher.

I just hope maps don’t get destroyed in the process, they always seem to be worse looking than the old versions.

Interesting. Could be just because they also go after ley energy, or it could confirm the small theory that chak might be the DSD’s minions.

Chak do seem sorta out of place but they’re some of the best creeps in the entire game aesthetically (due to their alien nature) and mechanically (fights have the perfect balance of fair yet challenging against the vets).

Meanwhile, the leylines could also be suggesting Jormag has moved toward the Woodland Cascade.

I think Woodland Cascade will be to a future expansion what Silverwaste was to HoT: a zone leading towards the expansion zones where we’re lead there by the living story.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

I think about undeground content. All those maps can serve as roof for new undeground mazes: of destroyers from Primodous or leyline with chaks. If chaks are where leylines are then maybe we could see them to be introduced in central tyria.

Honestly, when GW2 was still in development I was hoping for/expecting some vast underground network of tunnels underneath every map.

However, now I know that this isn’t possible for one simple reason: the water table. In GW2, every map has a singular level for water to be at across the whole map, without fail. Any attempt to create an underground network of tunnels in pre-existing core maps would quickly put every single tunnel underwater, much like seen in Tangled Depths.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Flame Legion from 250y ago, they tapped into Primodous (even mostly cuz of his attempt to awake) having fully dormant Kralka ;x

They never tapped into Primordus. You’re probably mistaking the fact that after the titans fell the Shaman caste proclaimed the destroyers their gods. But the destroyers were never compliant – in fact, the Flame Legion captured and held them prisoner for the most part, unleashing them when the PCs came to rescue the Ebon Vanguard.

There is implication that the Flame Legion shamans tapped into Kralkatorrik, but this is all just implication still.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Nextly about leylines that sprout accross Tyria, they sprout probably in places where we can’t defend, so who is defend them? Other races, organizations or these are places of free meal for dragon minions.

I don’t think that, lore-wise, their location is a proactive thought. They’re ley lines that are overflowing with energy – and they seem to be at intersections (minor ones, mind you). Their location is chosen by devs most likely on a basis of activity there (fewer events for clashing to occur, for example), but in lore no one is deciding – as far as we know – where these overflows happen.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Nextly why dragon minions consume it? It was Mordy who was consumed it, he didn’t allow so much to his minions to tap into it (that on in dry top thrasher). Other dragons have their own politics about it?

You’re rather wrong here.

In the Personal Story for asura, working with Gorr shows that risen presence alone ends up absorbing ambient magic – indicating that any dragon minion consumes magic. Furthermore, in S2 we have the Leyleecher as you mentioned, but in HoT all of the Blighting Trees (equivalents of the Pale Tree) are seen sapping in ley energy too.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Bandits, so yes, dame. I always will look forwrad to see attempt to destroy that dame. Waterfall in sw of quennsdale. River that cross whole Kryta from north to south – nw of kessex hills, west of fort salma. Bridge in north of Brisban Wildlands. That stuff in centre west of Brisban where much bandits camps and inquest researches.

Uh… what?