Guild Wars 2

In previous posts we’ve attempted to plot the general course of at least two of the ley lines that criss-cross Tyria. One of those proposed ley lines, running between Metrica Province and the Iron Marches, is denoted not only by the trail of crystals but also by at least two portals between realms: The Steam Portal and Grenth’s Door. Moreover, a number of creatures that port between realms live along this ley line – not only Steam Creatures and Chaos Beasts, but also Imps (described, according to the Wiki, as “demons from the Underworld who are attuned to various elements (primarily fire, ice, and lightning”), Flesh Reavers and Harpies. And it is with this in mind that I want to point something out – something that I’ve never really thought about, a connection between this and the Pale Tree: The Pale Tree also uses a portal (i.e. she lives on a ley line, at a point in Tyria where we have a weakeneing of the fabric between realms). In the case of Imps and Fleshreavers, they are said to grow in stature. For Imps, this process is achieved by consuming magic (some prominent contributors to this forum suggest that the Elder Dragons may be related to Imps for this very reason); for Fleshreavers, this process is achieved by using the flesh of other creatures. Given that these creatures, naturally occurring portal users within Tyria (as opposed to steam creatures, the Flame Legion or anyone else for that matter, all of whom arguably do not have this ability by nature) all “grow” somehow, I have a question for all of us: How did the Pale Tree grow? Indeed, is the Pale Tree something more than we think she is? Take a look at this concept art and decide for yourself (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare (On a side note, do you remember what Scarlet saw when she was in the isolation chamber? I quote, “She soon saw a vague, glowing shape ahead. A tree, she thought…the Pale Tree.”).)

Now I have some questions for all of us:
Where does the Pale Tree come from?
Is the Avatar of the Pale Tree somehow related to the Nightmare Incarnate?
Are Sylvari incarnations of something?

Remember, Scarlet didn’t see what she thought she saw. What did she think she saw? I quote: “A tree, she thought…the Pale Tree”.

Sorry, my previous link took you to the top of the Wiki page for “Dream and Nightmare”. The correct link is: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/ca/Pale_Tree_concept_art.jpg/400px-Pale_Tree_concept_art.jpg

If you consider this picture, you’ll note an obvious discrepancy – the reflection of the Pale Tree looks markedly different. If you can rotate the image, flip it upside down: Now look at the reflection. What do you see? What is she?

The Pale tree isn’t necessarily on a ley line. Collecting a set of locations and selectively choosing connecting lines remains an unscientific method of proving anything.

Hi Stooperdale,
You’ve got a fair point. I was clearly rather excited when I wrote this and didn’t really treat the idea with enough skepticism.

Stephen.6312:

Sorry, my previous link took you to the top of the Wiki page for “Dream and Nightmare”. The correct link is: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/ca/Pale_Tree_concept_art.jpg/400px-Pale_Tree_concept_art.jpg

If you consider this picture, you’ll note an obvious discrepancy – the reflection of the Pale Tree looks markedly different. If you can rotate the image, flip it upside down: Now look at the reflection. What do you see? What is she?

Looks like it might be an early concept of her Avatar.

Not that this refutes the possibility of the Pale Tree growing on a leyline. It is still entirely possible. It is a pretty big magical tree after all. And I personally would love to investigate this more deeply.

From the wiki:

“The seed which sprouted the Pale Tree was found in a cave containing many others like it, guarded by powerful plant creatures. Over 250 years ago, Ronan, a Shining Blade warrior, took one of these seeds and placed it on the graves of his family, located in what was once Arbor Bay, who were killed by the mursaat. He and the centaur Ventari tended the young tree, and their attitudes and philosophy had significant influence on its nature. In particular, the marble tablet carved by Ventari prior to his death and placed at the base of the tree forms the basis for the philosophy of the Pale Tree and her sylvari. The tablet can be seen hanging from a vine in the Omphalos Chamber. "

So why is it we have only seen one giant sentient tree so far, if there were multiple seeds like it? And where could this cave have been? A place guarded by powerful plant-creatures? Sounds like the druids. Could all of these seeds have grown into sentient trees? Or was it something about this particular location (a leyline for example) that caused this seed to grow into something special?

The druids were my first thought when I read that way back when. I still think they hold significance. I used to think perhaps the druids ultimately became those seeds, I had nothing to support the idea then, and still don’t, but I still like the idea, where did the druids go? The literature said powerful plant creatures guarded them, nothing says they were hostile, and surely 1 lone human wouldn’t overpower them by himself….perhaps an accord was reached between them? Any other thoughts?

There are missions in GW1 where you have to sneak by hostile druids, and since they are rather slow, I can imagine someone like Ronan sneaking in and taking a seed without being spotted. I don’t know if druids are the type of creatures you can reach an accord with, since they seem rather primal to me.

Also, there are missions where you carry a seed to grow a giant bridge in GW1 (in a mission that features these druids). Which makes a link with the druids even more likely. But then the question remains, if there were multiple seeds like the one that sprouted the Pale Tree, why don’t we see more of them?

The idea that not all seeds would grow into something like the Pale Tree, unless they were dropped on top of a powerful source of magic, fits with the leyline idea, and would answer this question. But it’s just a hypothesis. I have nothing to back it up.

You’re thinking of Jungle Guardians which guarded the resting places of druids, but were not themselves druids. In GW1 druids had no physical body, and were without fail friendly.

As for why we don’t see more seeds, I think it just comes down to no one else has found the cave, or if they have they haven’t returned to habitated lands. Keep in mind that while the areas of the Tarnished Coast/Maguuma that we see in-game are pretty much tamed, most of the jungle, away west and north of Rata Sum, is still trackless wilderness. If nobody can find the seeds to bring them back into the sphere of influence of the five races, there’s no reason that we should see more of them.

Stephen.6312:

Sorry, my previous link took you to the top of the Wiki page for “Dream and Nightmare”. The correct link is: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/ca/Pale_Tree_concept_art.jpg/400px-Pale_Tree_concept_art.jpg

If you consider this picture, you’ll note an obvious discrepancy – the reflection of the Pale Tree looks markedly different. If you can rotate the image, flip it upside down: Now look at the reflection. What do you see? What is she?

That concept art is meant to be a symbolic representation of a “Mother Tree” – that reflection is showing a female figure meant to be the embodiment of the Pale Tree being mother to all sylvari. Little different than the Avatar of the Pale Tree.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So why is it we have only seen one giant sentient tree so far, if there were multiple seeds like it? And where could this cave have been? A place guarded by powerful plant-creatures? Sounds like the druids. Could all of these seeds have grown into sentient trees? Or was it something about this particular location (a leyline for example) that caused this seed to grow into something special?

The Maguuma Jungle is full of giant dead-looking trees that thrive only by burrowing their roots deep into the Maguuma. They’re called Stonewood Trees.

Just because a tree doesn’t interact doesn’t make it non-sapient, really. I mean, why does the Pale Tree interact? I would guess what makes her unique to th eother trees would be that she was raised by Ventari and Ronan.

Magical trees are rather commonplace in Tyria (world). From Urgoz to the Ancestor Trees to the Pale Tree.

How can we be so sure that the Pale Tree is truly unique by its nature and intelligence? Maybe it’s it’s nurture and not it’s nature that makes it uniquely obvious.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

There are missions in GW1 where you have to sneak by hostile druids, and since they are rather slow, I can imagine someone like Ronan sneaking in and taking a seed without being spotted. I don’t know if druids are the type of creatures you can reach an accord with, since they seem rather primal to me.

The Druids were once humans. Krytan humans, to be specific.

Anyways, as Aaron said, those were Jungle Guardians, whom were treants that protected the druids and the jungle.

Well the druids shed their humanity to become closer to (nature/dwayna I don’t remember), is it too much of a stretch to say that the ultimate extent of that was the evolution into seed form? IIRC, they were on the decline and disappearing. Makes some sense to me, could also explain the default “human” look sylvari have.

The arboreal spirit says that the druids are sleeping- presumably within their husks.

Presumably, to you. Could be argued that a seed is a sleeping planted until its planted….

Considering the druids “disappearance” was more or less shown to be them turning into spirits during GW1, I doubt that it is linked to them turning into seeds. Especially with the reveal of the husks in GW2 with them being the recently re-discovered bodies of the druids.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

How can we be so sure that the Pale Tree is truly unique by its nature and intelligence? Maybe it’s it’s nurture and not it’s nature that makes it uniquely obvious.

That is a very interesting statement. Food for thought.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Anyways, as Aaron said, those were Jungle Guardians, whom were treants that protected the druids and the jungle.

Ah, I mixed those two up.