Lion's Arch After Scarlet
Its interesting that after Scarlet Destroyed Lion’s Arch and the city being rebuilt, Lion’s Arch really hasn’t changed much. Sure the city looks completely different but Lion’s Arch is still ruled by the same council of pirates, the same Lionguard guard the city and protect the trade routes, the city is still a refuge for many pirates, outcasts, refugees, deserters and escaped criminals. There is still a pirate run black market though in a different cave, the city is still neutral and has separate laws than its neighbor Kryta.
A: Why would it be different? It’s the same surviving population and government members…
B: Notable thing. The captain’s council aren’t pirates. They talk and may have BEEN pirates, but they are NOT pirates now.
C: Same as A, why would the lionguard change? They weren’t wiped out, just forced from the city.
D: It’s a melting pot and an open city. Many types of people arrive and stay here, many are seeking a new life away from old troubles. Some are bad, but a lot simply aren’t.
E: The actual PIRATE merchants are only allowed to operate if they play by the Council’s rules. Kiel mentions that while it may give people the idea that the council supports/allows pirating, it was done purely so they could keep an eye on the pirates.
F: Again, ties into A and C. The LA leadership was not killed off during Scarlet’s attack. After she died, they returned to the city.
Scarlet ruined the town, but she didn’t wipe out the Government, military forces, or people of LA.
Scarlet ruined the town, but she didn’t wipe out the… people of LA.
Pretty much comes down to this. The reason there was so much change last time was that there had been no survivors- the only reason it kept the same name is it happened to be built on the same harbor. This time that wasn’t the case, and the point was to rebuild, not make a fresh start. Somewhat… questionable city planning choices aside.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
There weren’t that many survivors, though. Per the devs it was a city of 40,000 inhabitants and only 5,000 lived through the attack.
Still, they could be determined to preserve the way of life and culture in which they grew up. 5,000 is enough to form a core to rebuild traditions.
A: Why would it be different? It’s the same surviving population and government members…
B: Notable thing. The captain’s council aren’t pirates. They talk and may have BEEN pirates, but they are NOT pirates now.
C: Same as A, why would the lionguard change? They weren’t wiped out, just forced from the city.
D: It’s a melting pot and an open city. Many types of people arrive and stay here, many are seeking a new life away from old troubles. Some are bad, but a lot simply aren’t.
E: The actual PIRATE merchants are only allowed to operate if they play by the Council’s rules. Kiel mentions that while it may give people the idea that the council supports/allows pirating, it was done purely so they could keep an eye on the pirates.
F: Again, ties into A and C. The LA leadership was not killed off during Scarlet’s attack. After she died, they returned to the city.Scarlet ruined the town, but she didn’t wipe out the Government, military forces, or people of LA.
I just thought it was interesting that the city looks so different but its still the same old Lion’s Arch we’ve come to know and love.
There weren’t that many survivors, though. Per the devs it was a city of 40,000 inhabitants and only 5,000 lived through the attack.
Still, they could be determined to preserve the way of life and culture in which they grew up. 5,000 is enough to form a core to rebuild traditions.
Where are you getting these numbers from? Because the game certainly doesn’t make it out to feel like only 1/8th of LA’s population survived.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
It was from dev commentary at the time of Scarlet’s attack. I regret that I don’t have a link. I remember being shocked to read them saying that, though, so it really stuck in my head. The in-game implementation of LA always felt like a sleepy little bayside resort to me. Other than a few NPC dialogues about bodies in the bay they didn’t dwell on the devastation that dev comment suggested.
But I definitely recall a dev giving us those numbers. If only I could find the blog, forum post, or video containing it ><
There weren’t that many survivors, though. Per the devs it was a city of 40,000 inhabitants and only 5,000 lived through the attack.
Still, they could be determined to preserve the way of life and culture in which they grew up. 5,000 is enough to form a core to rebuild traditions.
I remember numbers in the thousands, but for some reason the number I think of is 15k?
I hope they clear up some of the details about the battle of LA, such as death toll, length, etc. Some say it lasted a month (which is quite crazy), I think it lasted a few days, maybe a week total from opening attack to that post-battle LA instance.
Honestly, from what things seem, it might have meant to be 5,000 died, rather than survived.
As for timeframe – dialogue does seem to imply that it was only a few days for the primary battle (what we players did during EfLA and BfLA). People suggest a full month because of how Anet proclaimed the Living World would function back when it was newer – that it was real time. But as we saw with Origins of Madness, this wasn’t true (that was a one time event; indications would dictate the events of Escape from LA and Battle for LA were also one-time overall). You can thank Anet’s back-and-forth nature as of late (read: since GW2’s release).
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Honestly, from what things seem, it might have meant to be 5,000 died, rather than survived.
As for timeframe – dialogue does seem to imply that it was only a few days for the primary battle (what we players did during EfLA and BfLA). People suggest a full month because of how Anet proclaimed the Living World would function back when it was newer – that it was real time. But as we saw with Origins of Madness, this wasn’t true (that was a one time event; indications would dictate the events of Escape from LA and Battle for LA were also one-time overall). You can thank Anet’s back-and-forth nature as of late (read: since GW2’s release).
Yeah, I remember them offically stating the Marionette battle happened a single time, and was a win.
We’ll likely see merry hell with HoT release, since it takes place directly at the end of season 2 but it’s been a good bit of time IRL :P.
Honestly, the Captain’s Council would have been thrown out in the real world. They were completely unprepared for the attack despite the warning signs being there months in advance (and a general need to defend a city) but they were literally directly warned by a Pact Commander that an attack was imminent and almost nothing was done. Evon Gnashblade warned of the attack long before it actually took place and warned the Lionguard was not prepared to deal with it. The fact that the citizens just accepted the Captain’s Council’s failure and didn’t replace them with the reconstruction (or at least protest their willful ignorance) is annoying.
Kiel was openly pushing for more defenses. Gnashblade was just spouting BS to try to make himself look good and the council look bad during/after the battle. He may have warned them in some manner, but I doubt he pushed as heavily as he says he did.
Which is such a disappointment. Not even 100 years ago Lion’s Arch was a city rebuilt by pirates, stealing from the Krytan king and fighting for independence. It was made up of outcasts from all different races and especially pirates. Somehow in 100 years the city has become a light version of Divinity’s Reach, with a white knight human leading the Lionguard and speaking for the Captain’s Council (despite being the newest member, holding a senior position elsewhere and not being the Commodore) and architecture that looks like a district of DR and not actually a city that represents all races.
Um, Kiel does not lead the lionguard. Magnus does.
It’s so strange seeing a Captain’s Council member talk about pirates like that when Lion’s Arch was rebuilt on the hard work of pirates. It’s something I think was lost when the story shifted over to Kiel and the city was redesigned, the current city lost so much of it’s pirate identity, looking more like Seaworld than a pirate city.
The Lionguards I recall from Sea of Sorrows were a bit like Kiel – interested in maintaining law and order in the city, but they were portrayed as one facet of the city rather than the main point of contact for all things Lion’s Arch.
Because LA has evolved and you think a city that openly supports and does piracy would last long? It’d become the target of other nations to stomp out to make trading safer. To survive and prosper, they had to become more ‘legit’ and less “Hey, I like your gold. I’m taking it now and killing you.”
Honestly, the Captain’s Council would have been thrown out in the real world.
In a real world democracy, yes, but LA isn’t a democracy. The Council isn’t accountable to the citizens. Besides, the very fact that it does consist of the rich and influential means throwing them out is the last thing you want to do during reconstruction. You can’t pin them with the blame and strip them of their status, and then expect them to foot the community’s bill.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Honestly, the Captain’s Council would have been thrown out in the real world.
In a real world democracy, yes, but LA isn’t a democracy. The Council isn’t accountable to the citizens. Besides, the very fact that it does consist of the rich and influential means throwing them out is the last thing you want to do during reconstruction. You can’t pin them with the blame and strip them of their status, and then expect them to foot the community’s bill.
^ Partly this. Hell, IIRC, the vote for Kiel/Gnashblade was kinda an oddball for a new captain getting put in.
Add in the lionguard command structure entirely survived (Magnus lived and mostly came out of the battle untouched in the end), I don’t see them being cool with the council getting kicked out either.
Honestly, the Captain’s Council would have been thrown out in the real world.
In a real world democracy, yes, but LA isn’t a democracy. The Council isn’t accountable to the citizens. Besides, the very fact that it does consist of the rich and influential means throwing them out is the last thing you want to do during reconstruction. You can’t pin them with the blame and strip them of their status, and then expect them to foot the community’s bill.
^ Partly this. Hell, IIRC, the vote for Kiel/Gnashblade was kinda an oddball for a new captain getting put in.
Well, yeah. We weren’t technically voting for who got the seat. Citizens don’t get any say in that. What we were voting on is who got the trade deal with the Zephyrites, and only because that’s how the Master of Peace happened to want to decide things, and then the Council then gave Ellen the seat for getting the city that deal. It was more of a… shrug and a lark than a somber political process.
(As a side-side note, even the voting wasn’t exactly democratic, since the more you participated the more votes you got, making it not a measure of percentage of the population, but percentage of the population’s collective fervor. In other words, majority didn’t rule- it was set up specifically so vocal minority would rule.)
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
Kiel was openly pushing for more defenses. Gnashblade was just spouting BS to try to make himself look good and the council look bad during/after the battle. He may have warned them in some manner, but I doubt he pushed as heavily as he says he did.
Evon predicted Scarlet’s attack long before it actually happened, as early as the Fractured release (November 2013).
Assuming real time was the same as Tyria time at that point, that’s almost two full months before the Escape from Lion’s Arch release (Feburary 2014).
It’s been shown that “real time” and “In lore time” don’t quite match up, even with the changes Anet did. (see battle of LA timeline issues :P). Still, Kiel didn’t spend long in the mists from what I recall, and the lionguard in the forest were hunting an active Aetherblade basecamp.
Yeah, he said that. but that’s less of a “It will happen and I know it, everybody is being dumb.” and more of a “Who knows what Scarlet will do.” Still, He was blocked by politics as was Kiel.
During and after the attack on Lion’s Arch the writing was very heavy handed (imo) as portraying Evon as a villain and a sore loser, attempting to scapegoat Kiel and Magnus out of spit for losing the election, but prior to that his short story showed him willing to work in the interests of Lion’s Arch in a way which aligned with his own, and predicting an attack from Scarlet that the Lionguard was not prepared for.
Before that point he was willing to work with LA. During and after the battle Evon tried saving his own kitten and his own goods. Then he openly mocked and tried turning the public against the council. At that point, LA had little to offer him after all :P.
Um, Kiel does not lead the lionguard. Magnus does.
In name. Like the Commodore, Magnus seems to operate in Kiel’s shadow. She’s the most prominent Lionguard in the story and even when the player goes to LA to warn of the impending attack, Kiel is the one contacted (including references to any defences the Lionguard set up), not Magnus. During the attack itself, Magnus is taken out of the story very early on, leaving Kiel to be the one to board the Breachmaker and rally the Lionguard. Magnus has the title, Kiel has the prominence.
Yet we see that Kiel directly talks to Magnus in regards of city safety after the rebuild (asking about dock inspectors). Before Magnus was focused on trying to make the city secure (before rebuild, post battle). IMO, Kiel deals more in the politics area, and Magnus the security/military. I’d say we went to Kiel for the purpose of “We’ve dealt with her a lot more, and she knows us better then Magnus does, and thus is more likely to heed our warnings.”
I think it’s clear that power or money doesn’t simply buy a Captain’s Council seat, otherwise Evon would have had one long ago. It’s the primary trading company used across all of Tyria and it’s portrayed as the largest in Lion’s Arch, the trading hub of Tyria. Evon clearly wants a seat yet he doesn’t have one. Evon was the primary arms supplier for the fight for Lion’s Arch and the Consortium are being portrayed as one the major players in the rebuilding of Lion’s Arch, neither of them are represented on the Captain’s Council.
Don’t expect to see Gnashblade on the council anytime soon given how he openly bashed them during the battle of LA. Evon was FORCED to be one of the arms suppliers, and if they didn’t imply threats (or actually threaten him, depending on how you take it), he would have left the lionguard to rot.
I think it’s clear that power or money doesn’t simply buy a Captain’s Council seat, otherwise Evon would have had one long ago. It’s the primary trading company used across all of Tyria and it’s portrayed as the largest in Lion’s Arch, the trading hub of Tyria. Evon clearly wants a seat yet he doesn’t have one. Evon was the primary arms supplier for the fight for Lion’s Arch and the Consortium are being portrayed as one the major players in the rebuilding of Lion’s Arch, neither of them are represented on the Captain’s Council.
We’ve had answers for that too. It really does boil down simply to investment of wealth or influence- BUT with the caveat that a new member can usually only be added when an old seat opens up. Even so, and even granting that some captains, like Peter and Bonny, don’t contribute anything that we know of, we still see, say, Shud bringing the gates back up, or Hao Luen keeping the overland trade flowing to fund the reconstruction. Those are valuable services, necessities for the project. I suppose it could be argued that a theoretical new council might have been able to do the same, but it would be a gamble on inexperienced unknowns against tested administrators.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.