Guild Wars 2

Now the new patch is out again and it was actually quite quick to finish, however…
What a big lore-dump

Anyway, let`s get together and discuss this beauty of a re-entry and hope that they can keep the pace (instead of falling from grace)

Be warned, there will be spoilers

- I really like the pacing this time around. However at some points there would certainly be some subtitles needed. Mostly in the cutszenes, as it was sometimes really hard to understand some of the dialog (get to da choppa szene for example)

- The new pact base looks interesting , though I hope we could get some better explanation on the new weapons (they had over a year and they look awesome, but some explanation for fluff maybe?) and armor (some random explorer have them in glowing fashion, but no one else?)

- Trahearn seems competent and i like how he is concerned that his sword might not work this time.

- I really like the fact that we got Destiny`s Edge involved again and I hope we get some more insight.

- Logan might get some extra beef again. He just can`t some rest, can`t he?

- Caithe and Canach were there… I expected more of them. He has become quite docile, aside from his remarks, but I like that he is still up to his explosives. However does he still count as an engineer? He wields a sword now in battle.

- Overall the camp feels a bit too lighthearted so far. Everything is a bit to usual . Maybe they are all high spirits and confident that everything will go smoothly, but for me it just feels weird?
I mean, how long has it been since the Shadow of the Dragon attacked a capital? Can`t be that long.

- Belinda is now possessing her sword and Majory is wielding it. How often have I seen that? I hope something cool comes out of it. There are so many oportunies here. Please let it be cheesy, like her being able to summon Belinda for some special attack action or something.

- Speaking of Bleinda: kitten did she look creepy… but not in a good way. Don`t do close ups with these faces… ugh…

- I still want Belindas sword…. kitten gem-store…

- Glints layer ( called it )

- We get to redo her trials (yay). They are no dragons and we do not meet Glint (BOOOOOO).

- Odgen is pretty grumpy nowadays, but he likes to write.

- This Library is awesome. Please make it accessable from now on and add stuff. Please don`t waste that oportunity (till you finaly put a Codex into the UI. It can`t be that hard. )

- They harvested Zaithans Tail… so they disected him? Orr is accessable up to Zaithans dead body? I want to travel there and see his corpse…

- Master of Peace has Glints egg and it came down from the skies… geez the whole visions are really straight forward, aren`t they?

- Lot`s and lots of books. Interestingly Scarlet`s Vision has been depicted as the natue of the world and if one thing goes off balance we will fall from the earth… While i skipp the obvious flat earth theory (thought it could actually be… how sure are we that Tyria actually is a planet and no a flat plane? Aside from some depictions like in the OoW HQ?), I really like the “unbalance part” here. What if we are already unbalanced?

- So we meet three Zephirite initiates who are looking for their master… is it a coincident that the Master of Wind is bald and has blue glowing eyes? You know, like some Airbender in a famous show. Going into an Avatar state?…

- Gods and Eldar dragon connection… not prooven, canonical in game… i like me some meta humor on our behalf…

Well, that`s for now from me. I mostly rushed through it. I hope i can take a look in more detail later…

The Ghosts of Fort Salma
In all honesty, I didn’t like this instance.

• Why were the ghosts mistaking players and Campbell as Mordrem? The only other ghosts that mistake living beings for something else would be Foefire ghosts, and this is an explicitly stated UNIQUE aspect of the Foefire – alongside their returning irregardless and personality changes. The closest we get are a small handful of ghosts who vehemently deny being a ghost due to hysteria – but they still view living beings as living beings (until the hysteria brought by stating they’re a ghost is brought to a new high, like Watchman Pramas ). So this makes no sense to me. It feels like they felt like the instance – which itself feels like a side-quest and not relevant to the plot – needed combat and so slapped this situation in. Could have at least made Belinda a fight…
• Regarding the side-quest feeling, this feels disconnected from the main plot thus far. Sure there may be a point behind our new ghost-imbued sword, and our second greatsword-wielding necromancer (my charr necro better be able to wield a greatsword by the end of the year at this rate), but it’s not (currently) relevant to the main plot. This, and previous interactions with Belinda sans Disturbance in Brisban, feels akin to The Dejarin Estate quest chain from Nightfall. A side-plot.
• And regarding the combat – it feels like they just needed it in, when they didn’t, because of how tough the foes were. The normals were as tough as veterans, so it was like a full instance of veterans.
• And why did Belinda’s model change from white (like any non-Foefire ghost, sans Godlost Swamp and select Ascalonian non-Foefire ghosts like Pramas) to blue (like any Foefire ghost) during the cinematic?
• And gods, Marjory’s comment when you first talk to her. “my world turned black”. I get it, sister died… but that’s not all the happiness in her life. Enter Emorjory, who forgets that she has a hot blonde lover and more sisters and a mother that love her still. And friends. I get depression – I have it – but “my world turned black”? Sounds very overdramatic.
• And is it just me, or does it seem like Belinda had a thing for Marjory? Not only her parting words (“My love for you is everlasting.”) here but also the words – and tone – back during BfLA:Aftermath when she said “I can’t stay long, my dear. I’m just here to count your limbs and listen to your heart. So, how is your heart?” – the tone was like that of a caring lover to me.

Overall, this instance felt like a distraction to me. Though the cinematic was awesomely done, so props for that.

Reunion with the Pact

• I found this instance much better. But I am SEVERELY disappointed in the lack of us assaulting Fort Vandal – even if it ended up being empty, I would have enjoyed being part of the siege that.
• Also seems that they made no changes to the open world events or heart – like Concordia. Jarring in immersion. However, all forts thus far have been attacked because they held magical artifacts…
  So what was at Fort Vandal?
• Also seems Fort Vandal wasn’t their HQ, which is interesting given how heavily defended it was before.
• Instance itself was enjoyable, but didn’t note anything too noteworthy.

Caithe’s Reconassaince Squad
Enjoyable, nothing really to note.

I’m growing tired of the enforced hate and suspicion on Canach though. I don’t mind it as a dialogue option, but why not allow a separate dialogue branch where we don’t threaten his life at every turn, hmmm? Because at this point, I’m seeing my own character as an evil kitten for not giving redeemers a chance at redemption without throwing continuous death threats.

Hidden Arcana
askjdlskdjlskajdlsajdklsa

Loregasm.

That is all.

Disappointed the Facets were no longer dragons, though.

Found somethings that I will make a separate dedicated thread for though.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Ghosts of Fort Salma

Yeah, in retrospect that really was weird. Do we have any oher palces in Tyria with similiar ghost activity?
The only place I can think of would be the pirate and bandit ghosts in on top on Gendaran… like the one with the ghost Doljak.

It felt weird. They really should have made this a simple talking instance.

Caithe’s Reconassaince Squad

Enforced hate is the right word. I wish we could choose the dialog and don`t have to force hate him.
We get it, they want to paint him suspicious… but can we choose that?
Every roleplayer hates overly forced szenarios.

We want to be tricked and feel stupid as much as we want to be right with our suspicion. Please give us at least a choice. Not only bad and a bit lesser bad…

Hidden Arcana

Do you need a minute? Some air? Should i open a window?

Found somethings that I will make a separate dedicated thread for though.

I think nobody would mind. i open these threads for general discussions and that other topics can bloom from them

The Dragon’s Lair looks very different from what it was in the first Guild Wars.

I had to check the wikia to make sure that the Dragonbrand didn’t resemble the Dragon’s Lair….

The Dragon’s Lair looks even more crystaline than before and it already looked more crystaline than the Dragonbrand.

So redoing Reunion with the Pact, I had paid more attention to dialogue and found something interesting – which may or may not be unique for sylvari:

Aerin was bragging about being Soundless. He called the Pale Tree and Dreamers “the hive” that he would bring light to and the Masters note that he was acting like having a battle of wills, often saying odd things like seeking to destroy the world and agreed with the PC’s question of whether or not he was exhibiting dragon corruption. Taimi concludes that he and Scarlet were both fighting Mordremoth’s influence.

What’s most interesting is the fact that Mordremoth’s will that Aerin was fighting wants to destroy the world. Different from the previous rule/consume that we’ve had with the other Elder Dragons (particularly, Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and Zhaitan).

Considering the Ghost’s of Fort Salma’s similarity to the Foefire Ghosts we should ask: Just what was Magdaer and Sohothin forged from?

If an Elder Dragon was capable of pulling the same trick as those swords complete with the same requirement to end the curse(relative returns with the sword of the leader or a close relative to the leader of the ghosts) simply by killing all the inhabitants than Magdaer and Sohothin seem suspiciously like Elder Dragon weapons….

May explain why Jormag’s Breath looks like an icy version of both swords…

Jaken.6801:

- Caithe and Canach were there… I expected more of them. He has become quite docile, aside from his remarks, but I like that he is still up to his explosives. However does he still count as an engineer? He wields a sword now in battle.

I don’t think Canach was ever considered an Engineer. He always used a sword – from the Lost Shores to Last Stand at Southsun. He just also used bombs in Last Stand.

Jaken.6801:

I mean, how long has it been since the Shadow of the Dragon attacked a capital? Can`t be that long.

Supposedly things happen in real time.

So 2 months have passed since then.

Jaken.6801:

- Speaking of Bleinda: kitten did she look creepy… but not in a good way. Don`t do close ups with these faces… ugh…

All Foefire ghosts look like that. I like it. And I like how it’s usually completely unique to them.

Jaken.6801:

- They harvested Zaithans Tail… so they disected him? Orr is accessable up to Zaithans dead body? I want to travel there and see his corpse…

No need to cut Zhaitan up. In the story instance, the laser gun we use cuts off three of his tails. They simply needed to collect what was already cut off.

The rest of his body is still unaccounted for.

Jaken.6801:

- Master of Peace has Glints egg and it came down from the skies… geez the whole visions are really straight forward, aren`t they?

Are you sure it was from the sky?

The “Mysterious Voice” really felt similar to this cinematic in GW1 where we first hear Glint.

Jaken.6801:

- Lot`s and lots of books. Interestingly Scarlet`s Vision has been depicted as the natue of the world and if one thing goes off balance we will fall from the earth… While i skipp the obvious flat earth theory (thought it could actually be… how sure are we that Tyria actually is a planet and no a flat plane? Aside from some depictions like in the OoW HQ?), I really like the “unbalance part” here. What if we are already unbalanced?

Pretty sure it’s metaphorical, but this touches what interested me most.

Did you talk to Ogden after the story step was considered completed?

Jaken.6801:

- So we meet three Zephirite initiates who are looking for their master… is it a coincident that the Master of Wind is bald and has blue glowing eyes? You know, like some Airbender in a famous show. Going into an Avatar state?…

Initiates? They’re the mysterious Masters we kept hearing about. :P

Jaken.6801:

- Gods and Eldar dragon connection… not prooven, canonical in game… i like me some meta humor on our behalf…

That was just a reference to the lore community’s constant attempts to connect the two. The note that there’s no sufficient evidence points to that all attempts fail.

This is one of a few references I see to the lore community being referred to as “Priory scholars” – another can be found in Camp Resolve, forgot the NPC name but where you meet Trahearne in the instance, an asura. She mentions that Priory scholars suspect Mordremoth fed off the magic in the Maguuma Jungle to turn it into the Wastes but disagrees because his corruption results in jungle growth not deserts. Mordremoth being the one who dried the Jungle was one of the theories behind it before its reveal.

Jaken.6801:

Yeah, in retrospect that really was weird. Do we have any oher palces in Tyria with similiar ghost activity?
The only place I can think of would be the pirate and bandit ghosts in on top on Gendaran… like the one with the ghost Doljak.

It felt weird. They really should have made this a simple talking instance.

No, aside from the Foefire ghosts, no ghost in the game – GW1 or GW2 – ever mistakes living beings for something else.

Jaken.6801:

Found somethings that I will make a separate dedicated thread for though.

I think nobody would mind. i open these threads for general discussions and that other topics can bloom from them

One word once I re-do it all and look more heavily.

Apostate

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What’s most interesting is the fact that Mordremoth’s will that Aerin was fighting wants to destroy the world. Different from the previous rule/consume that we’ve had with the other Elder Dragons (particularly, Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and Zhaitan).

In A light in the Darkness, Trahearn claims that the Dragons want to destroy all life, not just consume magic.

Most of the theory crafting points to the dragons just being driven by a desire to consume magic, possibly even to keep it in check, but I don’t think we can rule out that they actually want, ultimately, to destroy life, and possibly even Tyria.

The Ghosts of Fort Salma
I liked this instance but I must admit I find Tyrian ghost lore confusing as all hell. I went through a lot of the GW2 ghost hot spots in preparation for the Rytlock/Foefire patch and tried to understand ghost lore (Foefire Curse seems to be a special kind of ghost lore) but the Fort Salma stuff just confuses me. I’ll let someone else figure it out, I kinda think the main reason is so that Bellinda could become a ghost and feed into Marjory’s story.

I usually don’t like when biconics become the focus of the narrative when bigger things are happening but this was short and sweet and kind of compelling. The lore behind the Delaqua family blade (it’s a Canthan sword, I wish it had a Canthan family name) was interesting before, not that it’s possessed by a ghost it’s even more interesting. I expect Bellinda will rescue Marjory in times of trouble in the near future which is interesting. Overall I was happy the Bellinda ghost thing was dealt with and this whole thing didn’t take a lot of time.

Reunion with the Pact

I needed this. I needed to be called commander again. I needed my space from the biconics. I needed to see the threat of Mordremoth recognised by the Pact and be a part of that story. I can accept doing other things without the Pact but I’m so glad the Pact is once again part of the narrative in a big way. The dialogue trees with the NPCs were satisfying (you had the same destination but choices on how to arrive there). I feel like my player character regained it’s identity here. To me there was a disconnect after the fall of Zhaitan and running around chasing Scarlet with the biconics – I feel like they just ignored our history and started from a new point. Honestly this felt like the next chapter after Zhaitan to me. I enjoyed talking to Logan, Eir and Zojja – even Trahearne.

Caithe’s Reconassaince Squad

The low point in the release. I really like Canache’s personality and story (I couldn’t figure out why Anise sent him to the Pact, I now believe she has him tracking down the White Mantle). I agree with Konig – I wish I didn’t slather on the judgement and hostility towards him, that doesn’t reflect how I or I believe my character would feel. The reappearance of his issues with sylvari’s class system in his attitude towards Caithe was nice. I guess this was mostly foreshadowing for whatever is at the edge of the map.

Hidden Arcana

I have so much praise for this instance – and that’s before I even entered Glint’s Lair. The Durmand Priory Basement instance was oozing personality and atmosphere. Like a great book it felt so real to me. The scenery was incredible, the "Shhhh"’s from the NPCs really helped set the scene. Hiding it behind the fireplace was great. The Archivist is a cool character (old people in GW2!!!). The lore books! They were so well done. Not only are there so many of them, but they have lore relevance. Many theories change or become supported by them. The nostalgia bombs from GW1 were incredible and I thought a lot about it and the word is “reverence”. I feel like the way this instance was handled reflects a great sense of reverence for GW1 lore. It wasn’t just shallow, token flashbacks or references. They captured the personalities of NPCs, they touched on subtle throw backs to early GW1 memories (the Catacombs moa or Symon’s histories) and it really brought the GW2-GW1 plot links more tightly together. The instance was amazing before I even went into Glint’s Lair. I loved the characterisation (and just reappearance) of Ogen. I loved that he was respected. I felt like the leaders (and Pale Tree especially) were not as respected as they should have been in the last couple of releases, Ogen took charge and knew what was going on. Obviously he has been in contact with E (that’s how he knew about the vision from the Pale Tree).

Glint’s Lair was awesome. Most of us predicted the dragon egg loooong ago (when we first saw the glowing ship, some of us when the Zephyrites first appeared, certainly by the time we saw his backpack) so this was more confirmation than revelation. Aesthetically her laid was amazing and it felt true to GW1. I loved that while the biconics were still present, they really didn’t take over like they did in the earlier chapters. Also, Ogden’s answer’s were voiced – that was a huge relief after a massively long instance full of reading.

This is why I believe the new release schedule is far superior to bi-weekly – the quality is so high imo. I hope it doesn’t taper off in the next three episodes like the first half of the season did.

Just participated in the beginning of the finale for the Silverwastes meta event.

There’s some things I’ve noticed that are interesting:

• In Caithe’s Reconassiance mission, that big purple flower looks very similar to the heart of the Tower of Nightmares to me. This marks the second similarity to the ToN stuff – the first being Iron Marchs’ spore sample event which has pollen that was used in the ToN areas.
• Three new Mordrem models (not including that big Vine -something- object): Troll, Mender, and Terragriff. Mordrem Troll looks like a fungi-infected Troll (similar to wolf); Mordrem Mender looks like a small fully-plant copy of a troll; Mordrem Terragriff looks like a plant copy of Colocal – but with a head similar (ish) to Drakkar. The aforementioned Vine object that looks like a carnivorous plant with a vine for a tongue, functions like the Toxic Offshoots (relation to ToN #3!).
• The finale happens in four tunnels beneath each fort; the entrance looks like a mouth. The tunnel itself looks like the inside of the Triple Trouble wurm you enter.

Wish we were able to beat the meta, but two of the four champions (the one I was at included) didn’t die.

I’ve beaten the meta and nothing seems to come from it. Maybe that will change next patch. Killing all the champions seems no different from killing one or none. I don’t remember precisely but I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on the similarities between the inside of amber wurm and the hives or w/e they are in Silverwastes. I’ll look more carefully next time but I think the main similarity is just that you’re inside something.

What’s interesting about the new Mordrem, particularly the troll, is that we see things that are clearly animals being corrupted. Early Mordrem were mostly plantish and I kinda thought the wolves might be plants attached to skeletons, but the Mordrem trolls seem to be corrupted trolls (presumably jungle trolls that used to live in the Maguuma jungle). Maybe creatures can be corrupted, or maybe the troll is just the body host of fungi corrupting it (which would also explain the wolves).

Speaking of corruption, I think Ella specifically states Mordremoth’s sphere of influence is the Mind and Plants (which doesn’t seem to be unique to him – Kralkatorrik corrupts plants and other EDs influence the mind of their corrupted). I think Ogden talked about Scarlet and Aerin’s corruption and suggests it’s specific to them being sylvar – that they rejected the Pale Tree and became vulnerable. So as long as a sylvari remains with the Dream (and probably Nightmare) they are safe.

It’s also suggested the fact that sylvari are plant-matter is why they could become corrupted, not because sylvari are ED minions or any of the other theories. This might explain why the only sentient creatures we’ve seen corrupted were Scarlet and Aerin. The mental protection that exists for sylvari doesn’t exist for other races, but Mordremoth can’t corrupt other races because they aren’t plants.

I still don’t know what the Priory means when they claim Mordremoth’s sphere of influence is the Mind. Where has that been displayed in a way which is unique from other dragons? Svanir’s run in with Drakkar (Jormag’s champion) messed with his mind (and presumably the Sons of Svanir and Icebrood), Kralkatorrik corrupts all kinds of creatures and presumably minds.

I actually thought the poison mist that surrounds the forts when they have fallen to Mordrem looked similar to the toxic pollen from the Tower of Nightmares.

Side Note: Ella is way overused – how many areas will she specialise in? Every event last year (including specific racial lore like the dredge), Scarlet in general, ley lines, Zephyrites and now Mordremoth? Doesn’t the Priory have other people looking into things? I assumed she was some kind of journalist (thus explaining her frequent appearances as shallow understanding of a wide breadth of topics) but she is being sold as some kind of expert. On top of all that she’s a teacher (which I thought was a nice touch to world build the Priory).

Jormag’s sphere is Power and Ice not Mind and Ice.

He corrupts through promises of Power rather than corrupting the Mind through sheer mental superiority like Mordremoth.

Kralkatorrik’s sphere is Crystal and Earth.

Primordus’s sphere is Lava and Destruction.

Zhaitan’s sphere is Death and Darkness.

Jormag’s corruption always takes the form through telepathy and mesmer-like qualities. He corrupts through mentality.

We have seen Mordremoth’s ties to mind though, in Aerin and Ceara – though given the descriptions of them by the Pale Tree, their journals, and the Masters, I would think its more “will” than “mind”.

Jormag does give promises of power, but wouldn’t that point more towards his sphere being promises rather than power? But this is for “spheres of influence”. With one, thus far, we have how their corruption manifests – death, plants, fire, ice, crystal. The other is questionable, though. Zhaitan and shadows wasn’t very common at all, illusions were far more common for Zhaitan’s forces.

And please, Mickey, unless you have a source for that… don’t state it as if it’s fact.

As far as I’ve noted, we only got confirmation for Mordremoth (Mind and Plant) and Zhaitan (Shadow and Death)..

I highly disagree with your proclaimed spheres for Jormag, Kralkatorrik, and Primordus. Sure, they make sense – they’re all tied to the ED somehow. But consider this:

Jormag promises power to those he corrupts. Zhaitan promises reunion and immortality through undeath. So wouldn’t that make his sphere “Death and Eternal Community”? Not Shadows. And Jormag doesn’t corrupt through power, like Mordremoth does through mind.

I think Zhaitan’s sphere of “shadow” refers more to the Risen Wraiths – they appeared to be made of shadow, and could hide themselves from mortal view at times. His corruption also resulted in shades spewing from the ground.

With that in mind, and Mordremoth’s corruption resulting in plants, and done through the plants’ mind (supposedly), then we see that the spheres of influence refer to how they corrupt and what the corruption looks like.

Thus the result would be:

Jormag: Mind and Ice (or Desire and Ice)

Kralkatorrik: Physical and Crystal (he corrupts things that are physical for the most part)

Primordus: Fire and Rock (he’s called the “rock dragon” at one point just as he is called the fire dragon all the other times, his minions are twisted stone, corrupted by being bathed in lava)

Kralkatorrik corrupts all kinds of creatures and presumably minds.
Isn’t it different ? I’d say Sylvari like Aerin and Scarlet got mind controlled while they weren’t really corrupted yet. I think the difference is that : usually, it’s the corruption that makes you a dragon servant (except from Jormag who seems to rely on promises of power), while Mordremoth seems to be able to heavily influence minds without having to directly corrupt (Scarlet and Aeryn seems to have struggled with that, and developped some kind of split personnalities. If they were fully corrupted, I guess they wouldn’t have argued with themselves multiple times ?).

but Mordremoth can’t corrupt other races because they aren’t plants.
Yet ! I remember seeing a dialog where someone said that a few people weren’t killed, but kidnapped by the vines. Surely this is something that’s going to change once the Mordremoth has a better understanding of them.

By the way, if you talk to Ogden at the end of the last LS instance, he also says that talking about Dream and Nightmare is oversimplifying, and that there’s more about that. I was playing a Sylvari, so I was wondering if other races get that info or not !

All Elder Dragons’ corruption alters the minds. So I presume the ‘sphere of influence’ refers to a method of corruption or a preference of magic.

The thing is, Jormag has known cases where his champions had directly affected the minds of others. Drakkar converted Svanir by whispering into his mind (telepathy); the Dragonspawn hypnotized Zojja into a trance when ’Dragonspawn’s Destiny’ (read: Eir, Zojja, and Snaff; prior to Destiny’s Edge) fought the Dragonspawn.

While Jormag offers promises of power, this is in no way tied to his influence or corruption. It is little different than the risen’s continuous promises of reunion with lost loves.

PetboyJoshua.3108:

Kralkatorrik corrupts all kinds of creatures and presumably minds.
Isn’t it different ? I’d say Sylvari like Aerin and Scarlet got mind controlled while they weren’t really corrupted yet. I think the difference is that : usually, it’s the corruption that makes you a dragon servant (except from Jormag who seems to rely on promises of power), while Mordremoth seems to be able to heavily influence minds without having to directly corrupt (Scarlet and Aeryn seems to have struggled with that, and developped some kind of split personnalities. If they were fully corrupted, I guess they wouldn’t have argued with themselves multiple times ?).

but Mordremoth can’t corrupt other races because they aren’t plants.
Yet ! I remember seeing a dialog where someone said that a few people weren’t killed, but kidnapped by the vines. Surely this is something that’s going to change once the Mordremoth has a better understanding of them.

I think the Priory are jumping the gun a bit with the Mind sphere thing. Two data points (Scarlet and Aerin) are simply not enough to conclude something as big as Mordremoth’s second sphere of influence. Maybe they will establish clearly in the future why Mordremoth is the dragon of the Mind, but so far I’m unconvinced.

PetboyJoshua.3108:

By the way, if you talk to Ogden at the end of the last LS instance, he also says that talking about Dream and Nightmare is oversimplifying, and that there’s more about that. I was playing a Sylvari, so I was wondering if other races get that info or not !

My Vigil, charr ranger also got the line about Dream and Nightmare being too simple.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• In Caithe’s Reconassiance mission, that big purple flower looks very similar to the heart of the Tower of Nightmares to me. This marks the second similarity to the ToN stuff – the first being Iron Marchs’ spore sample event which has pollen that was used in the ToN areas.

Assuming the Mind sphere is the way ArenaNet is going, we might be able to connect the ToN in a third way – the toxic pollen messed with our minds. Maybe the Toxic Pollen from the Tower of Nightmares is actually related to Mordremoth and that’s why it has mind altering powers (the delusions, including visions of our mentors and other figures – people Scarlet shouldn’t have known about). Maybe Scarlet was using the Nightmare Court’s knowledge (combined with her own) to somehow study Mordremoth. I’d need a timeline for Scarlet’s descent into madness, but she may have been using the Tower of Nightmares to figure out how to fight Mordremoth (and free herself). Using the Toxic Pollen afterwards (and the Toxic Alliance) to attack Lion’s Arch was just frugal use of resources. Imagine if the plant matter of the Tower of Nightmares was similar to Mordremoth’s vines and the anti-toxin could be used to fight Mordremoth. If the mind altering powers of the toxic pollen was similar to Mordremoth’s mental corruption of Scarlet, maybe observing how the heroes of Tyria fought it could give Scarlet clues on how to free herself.

Shiren.9532:

I think the Priory are jumping the gun a bit with the Mind sphere thing. Two data points (Scarlet and Aerin) are simply not enough to conclude something as big as Mordremoth’s second sphere of influence. Maybe they will establish clearly in the future why Mordremoth is the dragon of the Mind, but so far I’m unconvinced.

It seemed to me that they got this from the “Scroll of the Six True Gods” aka “Tome of the Six Gods” (seems to have two names).

Still, subject to debate as such, but not based off of Ceara and Aerin.

Shiren.9532:

Assuming the Mind sphere is the way ArenaNet is going, we might be able to connect the ToN in a third way – the toxic pollen messed with our minds. Maybe the Toxic Pollen from the Tower of Nightmares is actually related to Mordremoth and that’s why it has mind altering powers (the delusions, including visions of our mentors and other figures – people Scarlet shouldn’t have known about). Maybe Scarlet was using the Nightmare Court’s knowledge (combined with her own) to somehow study Mordremoth. I’d need a timeline for Scarlet’s descent into madness, but she may have been using the Tower of Nightmares to figure out how to fight Mordremoth (and free herself). Using the Toxic Pollen afterwards (and the Toxic Alliance) to attack Lion’s Arch was just frugal use of resources. Imagine if the plant matter of the Tower of Nightmares was similar to Mordremoth’s vines and the anti-toxin could be used to fight Mordremoth. If the mind altering powers of the toxic pollen was similar to Mordremoth’s mental corruption of Scarlet, maybe observing how the heroes of Tyria fought it could give Scarlet clues on how to free herself.

There’s also how the krait of the toxic alliance had their minds altered too, to be more favorable of Scarlet. Though this wasn’t shown in game and came to us via Angel in the forums. Good point to bring up.

Ghosts:

I’d have to say I agree with the majority. The combat feels like it was just tacked in for the sake of having combat, and was just time-consuming and uninteresting. And as has been said, there is an explicit difference between Foefire ghosts and normal ghosts (as seen in, for instance, near the memorial of the Ascalon Settlement) – unlike Foefire ghosts, normal ghosts can actually recognise friends from foes.

Reunion:

Another ‘talky’ instance… but it looks like they’ve taken on board a lot of feedback regarding letting the PC be recognised as a hero rather than treated as a nobody. I think they’ve also done a good job there of presenting Trahearne as someone who’s actually competent – if they keep it up, they may be able to dispel some of the Trahearne hate.

Like Konig, I would have liked to have taken part in the taking of Fort Vandal. The implications that they’re receiving instructions from elsewhere are interesting – I suspect White Mantle deeper in the jungle, and now the Mordrem have cut off their lines of communication. On that matter, something many of you may have missed – there’s a charr NPC next to the Vandal/Silverwood transition, who isn’t in the instance. He says two things of note: first, that the Seraph are bringing up a fleet of airships (implying in turn that they HAVE a fleet of airships) and second, that White Mantle-ish clothing was found in Fort Vandal.

Caithe’s Reconnaissance Squad:

Mostly interesting for the Canach character development. I concur with the general gist – it would be nice to have the option NOT to threaten Canach with horrible repercussions every time we see him. I’m sure he knows whether we say it or not, and rubbing someone’s face in something like that is a good way to give them the impression that they’ll NEVER get forgiveness, so why try?

Hidden Arcana

{brainwarps}

Interesting to go through the Lair again, although I was somewhat disappointed that it only went through three facets. Mind you, given that the final boss was bad enough, I’d have hated for them to have taken the excuse to give it mechanics of six facets…

Lots of interesting lore snippets there. The one I found particularly interesting was the Forgotten book – a lot of what we thought we knew about the Forgotten had been put into doubt, but this seems to reconfirm it. Which also adds a little more indirect evidence to my suspicion that the human invasion of Ascalon was a response to the charr pressuring the Forgotten.

Meanwhile, we see how the Master of Peace received Glint’s egg… or what we believe to be an egg, anyway. ¬.¬

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Jormag’s sphere is Power and Ice not Mind and Ice.

He corrupts through promises of Power rather than corrupting the Mind through sheer mental superiority like Mordremoth.

Kralkatorrik’s sphere is Crystal and Earth.

Primordus’s sphere is Lava and Destruction.

Zhaitan’s sphere is Death and Darkness.

Now defend your hypotheses. :P

draxynnic.3719:

Meanwhile, we see how the Master of Peace received Glint’s egg… or what we believe to be an egg, anyway. ¬.¬

Ogden confirmed it was an egg – the last egg of Glint’s to be specific, been in stasis since her death apparently.

I’m including Ogden in that ‘we’. I did, however, have a hypothesis that it might not actually be an egg per se, but a soul receptacle. I expect we’ll find out for sure in the coming months.

Interesting hypothesis.

Elaborate.

Pa-pah-pa-pah, pa rah!

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Zhaitan and shadows wasn’t very common at all, illusions were far more common for Zhaitan’s forces.

…

I think Zhaitan’s sphere of “shadow” refers more to the Risen Wraiths – they appeared to be made of shadow, and could hide themselves from mortal view at times.

I’m not entirely sure if this applies to the GW universe, but in several other fantasy settings “Shadow” is highly related to “Illusions”. In D&D for example, Shadow is a subschool of the Illusion school of magic.

Surbrus.6942:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Zhaitan and shadows wasn’t very common at all, illusions were far more common for Zhaitan’s forces.

…

I think Zhaitan’s sphere of “shadow” refers more to the Risen Wraiths – they appeared to be made of shadow, and could hide themselves from mortal view at times.

I’m not entirely sure if this applies to the GW universe, but in several other fantasy settings “Shadow” is highly related to “Illusions”. In D&D for example, Shadow is a subschool of the Illusion school of magic.

Not so much GW. The term shadow is usually used in association with the magic of assassins/thieves, particularly their ability to teleport, something we only see two kinds of risen do.

On a more general note, as I don’t think it’s been mentioned here, the generic collection achievement for this area has us hunting for White Mantle badges scattered about, which seem to be in remarkably pristine condition.

Also, on the topic of Mordremoth’s mental corruption and the susceptibility of sylvari- I don’t know if this comes up for other races, but in my sylvari’s talk with Trahearne, I told him something to the effect that the Pale Tree’s mind had been damaged by the attack. I have no idea where my character pulled that from, but if that’s true, it would seem to suggest that either the Dream isn’t foolproof protection (which would fit with Ogden’s later line that such notions are too simplistic) or else at least that that protection isn’t extended to the Tree herself.

Shadow magic is also associated with necromancy, but no, not illusions.

And I don’t recall mentioing such to Trehearne on my sylvari. I’ll have to play through it again… Next week, darn going out of town.

The relevant quote (in response to Trahearne asking after the Tree’s health): “I believe she’s still in danger. Her mind… was damaged.” To which Trahearne replies “Mordremoth. The Elder Dragon that spreads mental corruption. Our poor mother.”

After that, the conversation veers into a discussion of revenge and careful judgement, and nothing else of relevance is said.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

On a more general note, as I don’t think it’s been mentioned here, the generic collection achievement for this area has us hunting for White Mantle badges scattered about, which seem to be in remarkably pristine condition.

I was waiting for a dedicated thread for it (also, the White Mantle are the worst kept secret of season two, I think that’s why so few people are talking about it, that and there isn’t much to say). Yeah the White Mantle are back, some scrap paper in Silverwastes mentions “New Kryta” so I think they wanna take out the Queen and reform Kryta. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where the Krytan Royal Line mirror plot comes back. I’m also expecting that dude Marjory ran into in Divinity’s Reach to be working for the White Mantle. It would be really strange if Countess Anise, leader of the Shining Blade, sent a guerrilla soldier into a part of the world where the White Mantle (the Shining Blade’s traditional enemies) just happen to be working. No way is Canach spying on the Pact, Anise has him investigating the White Mantle while pretending to be working with the Pact. With all the references to Forgotten, Glint and White Mantle I wonder if the Mursaat will reappear?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Also, on the topic of Mordremoth’s mental corruption and the susceptibility of sylvari- I don’t know if this comes up for other races, but in my sylvari’s talk with Trahearne, I told him something to the effect that the Pale Tree’s mind had been damaged by the attack. I have no idea where my character pulled that from, but if that’s true, it would seem to suggest that either the Dream isn’t foolproof protection (which would fit with Ogden’s later line that such notions are too simplistic) or else at least that that protection isn’t extended to the Tree herself.

I still don’t quite understand the Dream but I don’t think it’s a physical place (sylvari bodies exist in their pods on Pale Tree while their minds are roaming about in the Dream – even fighting as the PC shows during the tutorial). The Shadow of the Dragon exists in the Dream and in the real world (at least at different times). Maybe that’s related to the Mind sphere of Mordremoth and explains how the Shadow of the Dragon was able to enter the Dream and attack during the tutorial.

It probably deserves its own thread but the explanation for why the Maguuma Jungle became the Maguuma Wastes was challenged this patch. As Konig mentioned earlier, one of the Pact members explains that Modremoth’s powers grow jungles, they don’t destroy them. She thinks something else must have caused them to die off but doesn’t have any suggestions as to what. My first guess would be Primordus is under the ground in the Maguuma Wastes (that could dry up the water and kill the jungle) or some kind of magic from the Deep Sea Dragon and maybe an underground ocean that the dragon has depleted, I like Primordus as an explanation better.

Given that we don’t see minions (until now, at least), my first instinct isn’t to point to any dragon’s particular corruption but rather to guess that the bloodstone in the region ran dry, with or without dragon meddling (especially now, when we have a book that implicitly attributes the Maguuma’s magic waters to a bloodstone- a theory formed long before I joined the community, but to my knowledge never before touched on by the canon).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Mender looks like a small fully-plant copy of a troll

To me they look a bit like Grawl, or possibly monkeys.

• The finale happens in four tunnels beneath each fort; the entrance looks like a mouth. The tunnel itself looks like the inside of the Triple Trouble wurm you enter.

People are calling them Sarlacc Pits. They certainly look like the Sarlacc.

Wanderer.3248:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Mender looks like a small fully-plant copy of a troll

To me they look a bit like Grawl, or possibly monkeys.

Grawl and troll share the same general shape. They are definitely plants and not corrupted beings. More likely based off of trolls too given that grawl are native to Ascalon and displaced to the Shiverpeaks. The only relation grawl have to jungle is in the Edge if the Mists.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Why were the ghosts mistaking players and Campbell as Mordrem? The only other ghosts that mistake living beings for something else would be Foefire ghosts, and this is an explicitly stated UNIQUE aspect of the Foefire – alongside their returning irregardless and personality changes. The closest we get are a small handful of ghosts who vehemently deny being a ghost due to hysteria – but they still view living beings as living beings (until the hysteria brought by stating they’re a ghost is brought to a new high, like Watchman Pramas ). So this makes no sense to me. It feels like they felt like the instance – which itself feels like a side-quest and not relevant to the plot – needed combat and so slapped this situation in. Could have at least made Belinda a fight…

Considering the Foefire thread has already been tugged this season, I’m thinking there’s far more to this than a simple ‘we needed an extra fight’. Its too similar to be mere lazy design.

Where did Magdaer and Solothin come from? Who (or what) created the Foefire curse in the first place?

In the breach boss Troll, adds that use mender abilities spawn, and they are named some variance of troll. Menders also tend to spawn with trolls in the defense events. I’d say there’s enough merit in the connection.

Jaken.6801:

- Belinda is now possessing her sword and Majory is wielding it. How often have I seen that? I hope something cool comes out of it. There are so many oportunies here. Please let it be cheesy, like her being able to summon Belinda for some special attack action or something.

I hope I’m not the only one that got Ritualist-y vibes from that whole scene.

GS+Necro=Ritualist, confirmed! =P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Wanderer.3248:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Mender looks like a small fully-plant copy of a troll

To me they look a bit like Grawl, or possibly monkeys.

Grawl and troll share the same general shape. They are definitely plants and not corrupted beings. More likely based off of trolls too given that grawl are native to Ascalon and displaced to the Shiverpeaks. The only relation grawl have to jungle is in the Edge if the Mists.

They remind me of gargoyles. One of the few species with healing (resurrection) capabilities. Do we have a close up picture?

Erukk.1408:

Jaken.6801:

- Belinda is now possessing her sword and Majory is wielding it. How often have I seen that? I hope something cool comes out of it. There are so many oportunies here. Please let it be cheesy, like her being able to summon Belinda for some special attack action or something.

I hope I’m not the only one that got Ritualist-y vibes from that whole scene.

GS+Necro=Ritualist, confirmed! =P

To add to this, Marjory (and her family) are of Canthan descent. In addition, there is that story about Marjory and the ghost boy.

What I hope happens: Marjory learns how to combine ritualist and necromancer abilities and then teaches us how to do that.

What I think happens: At some point in the story Marjory finds herself in a situation where she needs extra strength (either offensive or defensive) and Belinda does a thing.

Diovid.9506:

Erukk.1408:

Jaken.6801:

- Belinda is now possessing her sword and Majory is wielding it. How often have I seen that? I hope something cool comes out of it. There are so many oportunies here. Please let it be cheesy, like her being able to summon Belinda for some special attack action or something.

I hope I’m not the only one that got Ritualist-y vibes from that whole scene.

GS+Necro=Ritualist, confirmed! =P

To add to this, Marjory (and her family) are of Canthan descent. In addition, there is that story about Marjory and the ghost boy.

What I hope happens: Marjory learns how to combine ritualist and necromancer abilities and then teaches us how to do that.

What I think happens: At some point in the story Marjory finds herself in a situation where she needs extra strength (either offensive or defensive) and Belinda does a thing.

I thinkk that this would be an amazing way to introduce a new profession unlikely but would be so amazing.

More likely to be new options to an existing profession – but a new weapon would be an appropriate way to achieve that.

Diovid.9506:

Erukk.1408:

Jaken.6801:

- Belinda is now possessing her sword and Majory is wielding it. How often have I seen that? I hope something cool comes out of it. There are so many oportunies here. Please let it be cheesy, like her being able to summon Belinda for some special attack action or something.

I hope I’m not the only one that got Ritualist-y vibes from that whole scene.

GS+Necro=Ritualist, confirmed! =P

To add to this, Marjory (and her family) are of Canthan descent. In addition, there is that story about Marjory and the ghost boy.

What I hope happens: Marjory learns how to combine ritualist and necromancer abilities and then teaches us how to do that.

What I think happens: At some point in the story Marjory finds herself in a situation where she needs extra strength (either offensive or defensive) and Belinda does a thing.

Please don’t think that necromancers have nothing to do with ghosts.

Excluding in Cantha, Necromancy has a long standing tie with doing what ritualists do in Cantha: balance life and death, and guide spirits to their proper resting place (the Mists). Ritualists have the added part of ‘easily’ summoning spirits to fight for them or defend them – necromancers doing such take time and attracts demons and hostile spirits from the Mists.

Another general observation I’d like to make about this patch is how well balanced it seems to be, imo. ArenaNet was juggling a lot of plots, characters and beats in the story and I feel like, more so in this patch than past ones, they got it right. Some of this will be repeated from my first post.

The Pact’s return to the story as a major force was it’s own instance (and deservedly so!). They were kind of invisible for a long time but the reunion instance left no doubt that they are still here and still the lead of the story of Elder Dragons. I was sad to see so few familiar faces from the Personal Story though. Even though the biconics (and DE) were present, it was clear they are not the focus here, they didn’t take special positions or have undue recognition (like spearheading the Lion’s Arch fights). Having the player’s role within the Pact recognised again was so important imo.

The Marjory/Belinda plot was tightly progressed without drawing it out too much. Many of us felt the instance was the “one of these things doen’t belong” one, and while I agree with that, they set this plot up and I’m glad they pushed it forward quickly. We have an Elder Dragon to fight, I don’t want to spend my time dealing with a single ghost.

We touch base with Canache, see how Caithe fits into Pact operations and we get some foreshadowing of what’s to come in the future with regards to the Pact’s fight with Mordremoth.

The final instance was just amazing, the Priory felt like a real organisation, the library was breath taking, the lord dump burned me out pretty quickly and the return to Glint’s Lair was great. Even better – Kasmeer and Marjory talked about Glint and her legacy rather than each other. Ogden adds some gravity to the story and drops some lore bombs.

So much happened this last release and so many different angles and perspectives of the story were being told. We weren’t rooted in a single perspective and Tyria and it’s response to Mordremoth felt more believable to me than the way the story was told in the past. The balance of the characters and prominence of the stories being told felt right to me.

I think there are a lot of good things in this patch but I would agree with a few of the comments here.

- Belinda’s ghost merging with the sword – Poor story telling. It seems like it was shoe horned into the plot just because it needed to happen for something later. This could have been made into something much more interesting.

- Being nasty to Canach – This is just because the writers want to tell players that Canach was nasty in LS1. In fact it just makes the player character look nasty in LS2.

- Books in the Library – Nice to see them but if these are books from the best scholars they should be well written. Even if they are reduced to two lines they should be two well written, meaningful lines.

- Puzzle that is not a puzzle. – Why talk about secret codes and complex indices when all a player has to do is click on a few green stars to find all the books?

Personally I don’t like the whole “dragons naturally regulate magic” storyline. Everyone seems to know it. Everyone seems to tell us about it. Nobody acts as if it was true. We don’t experience it in events. It all seems like bunkum to me anyway.

versidia.4520:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Wanderer.3248:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Mender looks like a small fully-plant copy of a troll

To me they look a bit like Grawl, or possibly monkeys.

Grawl and troll share the same general shape. They are definitely plants and not corrupted beings. More likely based off of trolls too given that grawl are native to Ascalon and displaced to the Shiverpeaks. The only relation grawl have to jungle is in the Edge if the Mists.

They remind me of gargoyles. One of the few species with healing (resurrection) capabilities. Do we have a close up picture?

I had a closer look and they have horns but no tails. So they do look more like mini trolls, or possibly minotaurs.

The trolls look like they have been infected with some sort of fungal growth. There is a bunch of ugly bulges and swellings on their backs.

Did Abaddon know about the dragons’ awakening depend on magic, when he gave magic to the humans?

More than just Abaddon gave magic. All six gods did.

Stooperdale.3560:

- Puzzle that is not a puzzle. – Why talk about secret codes and complex indices when all a player has to do is click on a few green stars to find all the books?

Ooooh, that drove me bonkers! Super seekrit chamber that you have to get this seekrit code to open… and then it just pops open in the middle of the room, in front of everybody, and anyone can wander down the stairs. Gah!

However, the amount of random books lying around made me utterly gleeful, and I had to read them all… interesting implication in there that killing Zaitan could actually have contributed to Mordremoth’s awakening.

And I love that the White Mantle have just been hiding out in the wastes for 200+ years, plotting their revenge.

You know, Mordie did have to be awake enough to get into Cera and Aerin’s minds, and the Mantle have been doing Gods knows what out there near where the dragon has been sleeping…

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

And I love that the White Mantle have just been hiding out in the wastes for 200+ years, plotting their revenge.

You know, Mordie did have to be awake enough to get into Cera and Aerin’s minds, and the Mantle have been doing Gods knows what out there near where the dragon has been sleeping…

Mordremoth isn’t in the wastes. He’s beyond the wastes. Season 1’s ending cinematic showed him beneath a dense jungle that was past a wasteland.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

And I love that the White Mantle have just been hiding out in the wastes for 200+ years, plotting their revenge.

You know, Mordie did have to be awake enough to get into Cera and Aerin’s minds, and the Mantle have been doing Gods knows what out there near where the dragon has been sleeping…

Mordremoth isn’t in the wastes. He’s beyond the wastes. Season 1’s ending cinematic showed him beneath a dense jungle that was past a wasteland.

He’s at the far end of Magus Falls(I would presume the western end), don’t have the time to look now, but I just read it again the other day…so I presume we will have to triapse all the way through Magus Falls to reach it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

And I love that the White Mantle have just been hiding out in the wastes for 200+ years, plotting their revenge.

You know, Mordie did have to be awake enough to get into Cera and Aerin’s minds, and the Mantle have been doing Gods knows what out there near where the dragon has been sleeping…

Mordremoth isn’t in the wastes. He’s beyond the wastes. Season 1’s ending cinematic showed him beneath a dense jungle that was past a wasteland.

Yeah, so anyone who was hoping to see Mordremoth die at the end of this season will certainly be disapointed.

On the other hand we get a new frontline, foes and a better understanding about the whole matter in general (hopefully).

Though the question is how far the jungle actually extends to nowadays, as we are not able to see the whole worldmap and are mostly covering our known Tyria.

@Bobby: Thanks for popping in. I got a question though. Would it be possible in the future to appeal to some of the bigger critism, if it is reasonable? I feel like we are only able to bash you with not much defense from your side(though we can argue that every critism is usefull). It sometimes feels like we just have to wait and see if there will be change. Not that you have to be overly defensive, since I bet that you have your reasons most of the time (the whole team of course), but simple explanation like time constrains for example would be helpfull to keep us from being sour and would actually allow some insight into the developing process which is always nice.

@Eleri: My gut feeling is that keeping secret that the cipher-protected chamber exists was something that the Priory decided was probably futile when it comes to people that are allowed in the Special Collections library in the first place. The cipher is 1) to limit access, 2) it gives whoever’s down there a warning before somebody comes down, and 3) buys a little extra time for anyone down there to grab what they can and make their escape if an attacker breaches the Special Collections vault.