Guild Wars 2

Not to be too blunt on the point, but is it just me or is Logan the dumbest member of Destiny’s Edge? Every time he speaks I hear “Hodor!”, and I’m pretty sure this isn’t a bug.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with him as a character, he’s well built and defined, just like the others.

He’s just dumb. The others in Destiny’s Edge have flaws for sure, big flaws, and watching them argue is like watching the world’s most dysfunctional family, but pretty much every reason they failed ties back to Logan. If Logan hadn’t left, Eir’s plan would have worked (and she wouldn’t sound like Eeyore all the time) , Snaff would still be alive, the Crystal Elder Dragon would be dead or severely weakened, Zojja wouldn’t hate everyone, and Rytlock wouldn’t want to disembowel Logan on sight (probably). The others are messed up, sure, but this all goes back to what Logan’s been in denial over for the past 5 someodd years. If he started yelling “Honor!” he’d be Prince Zuko.

P.S. Not meant to be a super serious post, just having some fun.

there is literally zero guarantee that Eir’s plan would have worked had Logan been there.

Sajuuk.5706:

Not to be too blunt on the point, but is it just me or is Logan the dumbest member of Destiny’s Edge? Every time he speaks I hear “Hodor!”, and I’m pretty sure this isn’t a bug.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with him as a character, he’s well built and defined, just like the others.

He’s just dumb. The others in Destiny’s Edge have flaws for sure, big flaws, and watching them argue is like watching the world’s most dysfunctional family, but pretty much every reason they failed ties back to Logan. If Logan hadn’t left, Eir’s plan would have worked (and she wouldn’t sound like Eeyore all the time) , Snaff would still be alive, the Crystal Elder Dragon would be dead or severely weakened, Zojja wouldn’t hate everyone, and Rytlock wouldn’t want to disembowel Logan on sight (probably). The others are messed up, sure, but this all goes back to what Logan’s been in denial over for the past 5 someodd years. If he started yelling “Honor!” he’d be Prince Zuko.

P.S. Not meant to be a super serious post, just having some fun.

Logan was sworn to protect Jennah, He did what he had to do to protect the woman he loved, even if it meant sacrificing a chance to take down an elder dragon. I don’t think hes stupid, I think he just weighed the options and figured he didn’t want to destroy the elder dragons if the price was Jennah’s life.

Sure, there was no guarantee of success if he had stayed, but he kitten well nailed in the coffin with leaving.

I’m definitely not calling his motivation stupid (love), and I’m sure many people would choose love. What is stupid is the 5 years he spent in denial concerning his role in Snaff’s death and the failure of the assault on the Elder Dragon, which is reflected his whiny “It’s not my fault” tone that’s in every conversation he has up to a certain part in the story. He constantly jumps to wrong conclusions, makes poor decisions, and demonstrates that he’s pretty much the most useless member of Destiny’s Edge (thinking primarily with his short sword).

Another thread about this? already discussed. he effed up, Eir effed up, both should have known better.

Yes he effed up, but if he hadn’t there would be absolutely no conflict and the characters themselves would be happy and boring. What exactly are we supposed to be discussing here again?

Yata.8932:

Yes he effed up, but if he hadn’t there would be absolutely no conflict and the characters themselves would be happy and boring. What exactly are we supposed to be discussing here again?

I’m making fun of Logan, I’m not criticizing the story. Logan says so many dumb things he might as well be saying “Hodor”. Note what I said in the OP, not a very serious post.

Never post a thread that’s not meant to be seriously discussed in a lore forum. We don’t know how to just leave things alone :P

I don’t think Logan is dumb – I think he’s just kind of down-to-earth. It’s easy to forget that before this whole Queen’s White Knight gig, he was a common mercenary, not a nobleman or general. That shows through sometimes.

I also don’t think Logan’s simply been in denial all this time. I think he knows perfectly well that he abandoned his friends and may well have sacrificed the only chance they had to kill Kralkatorrik in order to save one woman. He’s been telling himself all this time that it was the right decision because otherwise he couldn’t live with himself.

In the end though, someone has to comic relief, Snaff isn’t here, and it’s not always appropriate for Rytlock to do it (since he’s pretty kitten angry) so Logan draws the short straw with the sillier lines :P

I disagree with Logan sounding dumb. He in fact sounds far more knowledgeable than most NPCs, even the PC. I mean, my character didn’t know Kudu’s name was a girl until Logan said it (hell I forgot that’s the case, then he pointed it out, and I was laughing my kitten off – just as when he was taunting White Mantle). Humor wise, Logan’s the best of Destiny’s Edge (followed by Rytlock – “That was so fun I don’t want to stop. Here, I’ll hold up his corpse, and you kill him again!”). Of all the NPCs around, he’s the only one who explained, in nice details, the situation behind the Ministry and the Ministry Guard – why there’s a schism for and against Queen Jennah and why the Ministry Guard was even formed. The whole “for or against the charr war/peace” is just public banter.

I can see how some lines sound like something an idiot would say, but those lines are all comic relief (e.g., “Isn’t Kudu a girl’s name?”), as Guruniel said.

BTW, Zojja only hates Eir.

What the frack is Hodor?

Chessrook.8643:

What the frack is Hodor?

Hodor is a character is George R. R. Martin’s “Song of Ice and Fire” books, he also appears in the Game of Thrones miniseries. He’s a large, simple-minded stableboy whose only word is his name…“Hodor”.

The OP’s amusing point is that Logan is a bit on the dim side, which I’m inclined to agree with. And I can tell I need to brush up on several topics, including Edge of Destiny. I’ve read it, but clearly I need to read it again.

:)

Logan is the biggest kitten ever… i dislike his character with every viber of my body and you insult hodor by comparing him to Looolgan

I disagree, Rytlock is undeniably the biggest kitten in Edge of Destiny.

Rytlock has character and guts. Logan acts on a whim and does not weigh in consequences. Yes, I read the book, liked all characters, even Logan up until the very end. You have to consider that the author of the book was presented with a unique situation – most of what you see in the storyline was already in place when he was writing the novel. It was ultimately his choice to present Logan as a kitten. Everyone draws the conclusion Logan is one simply due to the writing that does not give the idea that Jenna was in any real danger from Kralkatorrik at the time. If you ask me J.R. King wanted us to detest Logan.

Charrs are feline, Rytlock is a Charr. Cats are feline, kittens are cats. See the connection?

Oh, do I love making lame jokes.

The “kitten” thing comes from Curse I believe. The Aionsource forum used to censor bad language by changing the word to “nyerk”, which was the exclamation of the sugo, small fox-like critters that ran the broker in AION.

Everyone draws the conclusion Logan is one simply due to the writing that does not give the idea that Jenna was in any real danger from Kralkatorrik at the time. If you ask me J.R. King wanted us to detest Logan.

Actually, while I do think that Logan mad a really dumb decision there, I blame Jennah for being incredibly small-minded and selfish in calling him to her at that point. Maybe she didn’t really comprehend what she was taking him away from… but in that book she seemed to expertly manipulate Logan at every turn. She encouraged his infatuation with her, possibly enhancing it with her magic to make him more slavishly devoted than he would otherwise be. Then she summoned him; of course, he came.

I don’t think Jennah is evil or anything, I just think that she is more cunning than she lets on, and very concerned with keeping her throne and doing what she thinks is right for her nation (not the world, necessarily). While we’re making Ice and Fire references, I can see her using the “I am but a young girl, and know nothing of the ways of war, but…” line that Daenerys so often shoots people down with.

From my perspective, Rytlock, Logan, and Zojja all act like immature brats.

I dont think Logan is very dumb. Sure, he can do and say stupid thinks but we all do.. I’m much more annoyed by Zojja. Little arrogant rat.

What is stupid is the 5 years he spent in denial concerning his role in Snaff’s death and the failure of the assault on the Elder Dragon, which is reflected his whiny “It’s not my fault” tone that’s in every conversation he has up to a certain part in the story.

Actually, the complete opposite of this. He’s keenly aware that his absence cost Snaff his life (not necessarily true – as said above, even if he were there, there was no guarantee… but the odds would have been a lot better). He avoided the others because of that guilt. He stayed in Divinity’s Reach because he had to justify (to himself) the decision he made.

He felt guilty, and not undeservedly, I will agree – what he did not feel, was sorry. He knows that if he had it to do over, he would still have chosen Jennah. He feels remorse, but not regret.

But, let’s turn this around: Let’s say he stayed. Would it have really been the better choice?

- There’s still no guarantee they’d have won, although I’ll assume for the sake of argument they do.
- Ebonhawke, last human holding in Ascalon, would be destroyed.
- Jennah would almost certainly have died. If she survived by some chance, she’d be stranded in Ascalon (the gate would be destroyed with the fortress). As awesome as mesmers are, she can’t mesmer her way all the way back home.
- Having died without issue, the throne would either fall under dispute, leading to civil war, or the government would pass to the Ministry, essentially putting Caudecus in charge.
- With Ebonhawke fallen and Kryta weakened in the transition, the Charr would have seen no need for a truce, since there is, after all, a mountain range between them and Kryta.

True, there would be one less Elder Dragon, but the world would be in a weaker position regarding the remaining ones.

Logan could not be in two places at once. He had to make a choice. He did. And he had to live with it. His primary flaw is not in the choice he made, but in his handling of it. He hid, avoiding having to confront the others over the decision. He clung to his role as Jennah’s protector, justifying his choice by continuing to safeguard her. She was his “comfort zone”, and as long as he held on to that, he couldn’t truly get over his issues.

Eventually, he learns that he cannot run forever. He still does not regret the choice he made back then, but he is learning to move on, and not let its specter loom over the rest of his life.

To be honest, as much as I like to make fun of Logan, he’s also my favorite member of Destiny’s Edge, and his actions in Arah definitely redeemed himself!

Yeah, I like Logan!

Though we can’t deny Logan is a masochist with a femdom/hypno-fetish. Seriously. Read the novel. He’s dating a Mesmer and has no problem being manipulated!

I think Logan is friend-zoned

My thief definitely doesn’t think too much of him…she had to rez him about three times during “The Ringmaster”.

;)

Sajuuk.5706:

Not to be too blunt on the point, but is it just me or is Logan the dumbest member of Destiny’s Edge? Every time he speaks I hear “Hodor!”, and I’m pretty sure this isn’t a bug.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with him as a character, he’s well built and defined, just like the others.

He’s just dumb. The others in Destiny’s Edge have flaws for sure, big flaws, and watching them argue is like watching the world’s most dysfunctional family, but pretty much every reason they failed ties back to Logan. If Logan hadn’t left, Eir’s plan would have worked (and she wouldn’t sound like Eeyore all the time) , Snaff would still be alive, the Crystal Elder Dragon would be dead or severely weakened, Zojja wouldn’t hate everyone, and Rytlock wouldn’t want to disembowel Logan on sight (probably). The others are messed up, sure, but this all goes back to what Logan’s been in denial over for the past 5 someodd years. If he started yelling “Honor!” he’d be Prince Zuko.

P.S. Not meant to be a super serious post, just having some fun.

First off, let me just say one thing: Eeyore Stegalkin XD.

Anyway, yeah, Logan did act pretty dumb back then. When hindsight is applied, anyway. Remember, he’s only human (I mean this literally, lol), and he was in love with Queen Jennah. Jennah, a Mesmer, had put a spell on his mind, if you recall, so when she became in danger (attack by Branded Ogres seems to qualify) she naturally called on her champion. It’s no different, in principle, then an athlete who backs out of the game because his girlfriend’s house is on fire. Just a much larger scale then that.

There’s no guarantee Eir’s plan would have worked though. They blame things on Logan when he had no choice, and possibly made the right move to retreat.

It’s the other members of Destiny’s Edge who got it wrong because they’re stubborn as a mule and went on without Logan anyways.

Not just that, but at least Logan has a better personality than the others. Try to explain to me who or what Eir is as a character without explaining her role in the plot? All we know about her is she’s a hunter.

Same applies to Rytlock, who just happens to be some important guy not representing any particular legion who has anger management issues but for some reason he’s capable of being in command? I say we throw him in a Loony bin and let Dinky represent Charr instead…

Caithe and Zojja aren’t as bad as tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum luckily though, but something is just missing about their character development.. They didn’t really develop or learn anything through the story, with the exception of Caithe who learned to stop forcing the races to work together.

Logan however goes through a lot more character development learning than any members of D.E. by learning the balance between helping his friends and protecting the Queen, as well as his duty as a Seraph in Divinity’s Reach. Logan has lots of spite towards Charr and some anger issues, but he copes with that same anger through maintaining his duty. He is quick to take initiative, not hesitating whatsoever to execute Two-blade Pete as soon as he got the chance.

Duke Darkwood.4237:

What is stupid is the 5 years he spent in denial concerning his role in Snaff’s death and the failure of the assault on the Elder Dragon, which is reflected his whiny “It’s not my fault” tone that’s in every conversation he has up to a certain part in the story.

Actually, the complete opposite of this. He’s keenly aware that his absence cost Snaff his life (not necessarily true – as said above, even if he were there, there was no guarantee… but the odds would have been a lot better). He avoided the others because of that guilt. He stayed in Divinity’s Reach because he had to justify (to himself) the decision he made.

He felt guilty, and not undeservedly, I will agree – what he did not feel, was sorry. He knows that if he had it to do over, he would still have chosen Jennah. He feels remorse, but not regret.

But, let’s turn this around: Let’s say he stayed. Would it have really been the better choice?

- There’s still no guarantee they’d have won, although I’ll assume for the sake of argument they do.
- Ebonhawke, last human holding in Ascalon, would be destroyed.
- Jennah would almost certainly have died. If she survived by some chance, she’d be stranded in Ascalon (the gate would be destroyed with the fortress). As awesome as mesmers are, she can’t mesmer her way all the way back home.
- Having died without issue, the throne would either fall under dispute, leading to civil war, or the government would pass to the Ministry, essentially putting Caudecus in charge.
- With Ebonhawke fallen and Kryta weakened in the transition, the Charr would have seen no need for a truce, since there is, after all, a mountain range between them and Kryta.

True, there would be one less Elder Dragon, but the world would be in a weaker position regarding the remaining ones.

Logan could not be in two places at once. He had to make a choice. He did. And he had to live with it. His primary flaw is not in the choice he made, but in his handling of it. He hid, avoiding having to confront the others over the decision. He clung to his role as Jennah’s protector, justifying his choice by continuing to safeguard her. She was his “comfort zone”, and as long as he held on to that, he couldn’t truly get over his issues.

Eventually, he learns that he cannot run forever. He still does not regret the choice he made back then, but he is learning to move on, and not let its specter loom over the rest of his life.

I was gonna come and post this when I saw the thread was bumped. You hit it perfectly, the long term consequences of the queen dying are unknown, but likely could have resulted in the eradication of humanity from continental Tyria by the Charr.

Did anyone else see a discrepancy between the book lore and the game? In the book, from my impression, Logan peaced out just before Ol’ Kraky showed up so it was pretty much fight or die. It seems like in-game they want it to seem like Eir was like “we didn’t need that loser, we got this bro!”. Also if you read the book it is pretty clear they would have succeeded because Logan would have held back his “lane” of baddies long enough for Snaff to maintain his hold and for Rytlock to do the deed.

oh look, someone bumped a logan hate thread.

i’ll just say one thing: had logan not saved jennah, she’d have died. with her death, the charr-human treaty would’ve never happened. a big part of the 5 races working together is due to her influence. she’s playing the right cards at the right time to try and bring everyone together against the greater threat. and she’s succeeded.

but if logan had left her to die, none of that would’ve happened.

Icarus Pherae.4680:

Did anyone else see a discrepancy between the book lore and the game? In the book, from my impression, Logan peaced out just before Ol’ Kraky showed up so it was pretty much fight or die. It seems like in-game they want it to seem like Eir was like “we didn’t need that loser, we got this bro!”. Also if you read the book it is pretty clear they would have succeeded because Logan would have held back his “lane” of baddies long enough for Snaff to maintain his hold and for Rytlock to do the deed.

no, in the book logan backs out before they even start digging the trenches. Eir is all like “this HAS to work, it’s our only shot”.

the game’s actually very consistent with the book, there’s even a lot of stuff in the game that passes unnoticed (or sounds really odd, like caithe and faolain) if you haven’t read the book.

How it actually went down:

[DE] had an organized raid scheduled on Kralkatorrik, but a few moments before they started, Logan caught wife aggro and bailed.

As a result, Eir decided to pug it, Rytlock went AFK, Snaff tried to tank, and Zojja forgot to slot Glyph of Renewal. It was ugly.

Nar.8327:

How it actually went down:

[DE] had an organized raid scheduled on Kralkatorrik, but a few moments before they started, Logan caught wife aggro and bailed.

As a result, Eir decided to pug it, Rytlock went AFK, Snaff tried to tank, and Zojja forgot to slot Glyph of Renewal. It was ugly.

lol.

You deserve a cookie.

Does anyone else find it amusing that while Logan seems to get by far the most flack out of any of DE, he’s the most useful in terms of actual gameplay?

None of the other members of DE actually DO anything of note in the entire campaign or dungeon other than wack a few enemies with their paper machete weapons.

Logan at least is shown, again in game, to be a powerful enough Guardian to tank Gaheron Baelfire indefinitely.

No one else in DE does anything on that scale within the actual game, which to me is where the burden of story has to stay.

Logan is actually my favorite character and I don’t think he’s that dumb…I think the writer was just a little silly.

I’m in the middle of reading the book (and I cheated so I know the ending) and they all do bicker in a corny 1980’s dysfunctional family way and descriptively I have to go back and re-read parts of the story because it didn’t flow right. “How did that get there?” “How did they do that?” and such. However, that is often the case with MMO novels that I’ve read so I won’t really fault the author.

I believe that Logan is a very complex character who is, in general, conflicted and unsure of his place in the world and is insecure with his values —especially with everything changing so rapidly-- and he’s struggling to find what is right in the world when there is so little of it.

manwiththemachinegun.6873:

Does anyone else find it amusing that while Logan seems to get by far the most flack out of any of DE, he’s the most useful in terms of actual gameplay?

None of the other members of DE actually DO anything of note in the entire campaign or dungeon other than wack a few enemies with their paper machete weapons.

Logan at least is shown, again in game, to be a powerful enough Guardian to tank Gaheron Baelfire indefinitely.

No one else in DE does anything on that scale within the actual game, which to me is where the burden of story has to stay.

i actually brought up just yesterday on the dungeon forum that they should bump destiny’s edge usefulness (or at least their estimated lifespan to something more than 3 seconds) in story dungeons, because it’s hard to believe in heroes that lay dead on the first sign of threat, and then don’t move again.

He got friendzoned, and they all hate him !

I think Logan’s actions are understandable, if foolish, I certainly wouldn’t hate him for following his heart and running of like he did…

The issue with him is that he doesn’t own up to it, instead of just admitting that he screwed up and taking responsibility he’ll throw a tantrum when anyone brings it up crying about how he did nothing wrong and it wasn’t his fault kitten

Rytlock even comments on this if you are a charr player though so it’s definitely intentional and not simply bad writing.

Not just that, but at least Logan has a better personality than the others. Try to explain to me who or what Eir is as a character without explaining her role in the plot? All we know about her is she’s a hunter.

And a sculptor. She gets some characterization in the book, too.

As for what kind of person she is? A leader and a planner. Not just ion terms of Destiny’s Edge, but her approach to life. As long as she has a plan, she can do anything. (Oddly, this reminds me of Dunkoro. Heh.) She’s also headstrong, but then, she IS norn.

Same applies to Rytlock, who just happens to be some important guy not representing any particular legion who has anger management issues but for some reason he’s capable of being in command?

He was the leader of his warband before he met Logan. And he didn’t have as many anger issues then – for a charr, anyway. His entire anger problem stems from feeling betrayed. He trusted Logan, and Logan was not there when he needed him the most. The book’s depiction of the battle conveys this amazingly well.

Trust broken is very hard to regain – thus, Rytlock’s attitudes toward Logan since the incident. Also, there is the very old pattern of refusing to trust, so that you cannot be betrayed again.

Caithe and Zojja aren’t as bad as tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum luckily though, but something is just missing about their character development.. They didn’t really develop or learn anything through the story, with the exception of Caithe who learned to stop forcing the races to work together.

Zojja had a fair deal of development in the book, where she was initially Snaff’s apprentice, and the dynamic between them evolved from master-pule to father-daughter in nature, although Zojja didn’t realize it until…. well.

Caithe? Caithe was driven. Book and game alike. One of her last lines of dialog in the book is very telling in this regard. I forget the exact wording, but it’s along the lines of “If we don’t unite against the Elder Dragons, the whole world will die.” This goal drove her, both in the original adventures they had together and in the game’s own scope. Her big development was that sometimes, the best thing to do is let others realize it on their own.

[i]How it actually went down:

[DE] had an organized raid scheduled on Kralkatorrik, but a few moments before they started, Logan caught wife aggro and bailed.

As a result, Eir decided to pug it, Rytlock went AFK, Snaff tried to tank, and Zojja forgot to slot Glyph of Renewal. It was ugly.[/i]

This is the best post of all time. Just thought I’d say.

The issue with [Logan] is that he doesn’t own up to it, instead of just admitting that he screwed up and taking responsibility he’ll throw a tantrum when anyone brings it up crying about how he did nothing wrong and it wasn’t his fault

As I said above (really? over a month ago?), it’s not denial, it’s guilt. He knows it was because of him – but he also knows he’d choose the same way if it happened again. And so he hides in Kryta, protecting Jennah – an excuse to justify to himself that it was the right choice. That is cowardice, yes. But not denial. He never once denied the facts, he only kept insisting he did what he had to do. (And, to him, that WAS what he had to do.) He hid, avoiding confronting the issue – but he had to, in order to move past it. He had to come to terms with his actions, both then and since, and put past deeds behind him. (This specifically happens in the scene between him and Jennah after Caudecus’s Manor, although it’s a hard road to win back even an inch of trust from Rytlock.)

And as I also said, there WAS NO right choice, in the fight against Kralkatorrik. Either way – no matter which battle he participated in – there would be bad repercussions. Logan knows that (once he comes to terms with the whole thing), but even after that happens, he does not regret his decision. He has remorse over the cost, but not regret.

It IS the classic no-win scenario. He could not be in two places at once.

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

there is literally zero guarantee that Eir’s plan would have worked had Logan been there.

There was 100% certainty it would fail if Logan was not there.

Dinks.2478:

Sajuuk.5706:

Not to be too blunt on the point, but is it just me or is Logan the dumbest member of Destiny’s Edge? Every time he speaks I hear “Hodor!”, and I’m pretty sure this isn’t a bug.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with him as a character, he’s well built and defined, just like the others.

He’s just dumb. The others in Destiny’s Edge have flaws for sure, big flaws, and watching them argue is like watching the world’s most dysfunctional family, but pretty much every reason they failed ties back to Logan. If Logan hadn’t left, Eir’s plan would have worked (and she wouldn’t sound like Eeyore all the time) , Snaff would still be alive, the Crystal Elder Dragon would be dead or severely weakened, Zojja wouldn’t hate everyone, and Rytlock wouldn’t want to disembowel Logan on sight (probably). The others are messed up, sure, but this all goes back to what Logan’s been in denial over for the past 5 someodd years. If he started yelling “Honor!” he’d be Prince Zuko.

P.S. Not meant to be a super serious post, just having some fun.

Logan was sworn to protect Jennah, He did what he had to do to protect the woman he loved, even if it meant sacrificing a chance to take down an elder dragon. I don’t think hes stupid, I think he just weighed the options and figured he didn’t want to destroy the elder dragons if the price was Jennah’s life.

The price of leaving to babysit Jennah was Kralkatorrik’s continued existence, the death of Snaff and Glint, the implosion of Destiny’s Edge and the near-destruction of the Human-Charr peace treaty when he more or less stabbed Rytlock (an incredibly powerful charr with tons of sway) in the back.

The problem here is Jennah and her attitude. She more or less cast Mesmer magic on Logan to make him love her and teleport to her at the drop of a hat, and then when she meddled with his guild (and directly caused their disbandment) so that he could come “save her” she ended up saving herself with more Mesmer magics anyway.

Jennah is such a B. Bros before Hoes Logan. Not worth it.

Kerithlan.1659:

Dinks.2478:

Sajuuk.5706:

Not to be too blunt on the point, but is it just me or is Logan the dumbest member of Destiny’s Edge? Every time he speaks I hear “Hodor!”, and I’m pretty sure this isn’t a bug.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with him as a character, he’s well built and defined, just like the others.

He’s just dumb. The others in Destiny’s Edge have flaws for sure, big flaws, and watching them argue is like watching the world’s most dysfunctional family, but pretty much every reason they failed ties back to Logan. If Logan hadn’t left, Eir’s plan would have worked (and she wouldn’t sound like Eeyore all the time) , Snaff would still be alive, the Crystal Elder Dragon would be dead or severely weakened, Zojja wouldn’t hate everyone, and Rytlock wouldn’t want to disembowel Logan on sight (probably). The others are messed up, sure, but this all goes back to what Logan’s been in denial over for the past 5 someodd years. If he started yelling “Honor!” he’d be Prince Zuko.

P.S. Not meant to be a super serious post, just having some fun.

Logan was sworn to protect Jennah, He did what he had to do to protect the woman he loved, even if it meant sacrificing a chance to take down an elder dragon. I don’t think hes stupid, I think he just weighed the options and figured he didn’t want to destroy the elder dragons if the price was Jennah’s life.

The price of leaving to babysit Jennah was Kralkatorrik’s continued existence, the death of Snaff and Glint, the implosion of Destiny’s Edge and the near-destruction of the Human-Charr peace treaty when he more or less stabbed Rytlock (an incredibly powerful charr with tons of sway) in the back.

The problem here is Jennah and her attitude. She more or less cast Mesmer magic on Logan to make him love her and teleport to her at the drop of a hat, and then when she meddled with his guild (and directly caused their disbandment) so that he could come “save her” she ended up saving herself with more Mesmer magics anyway.

Jennah is such a B. Bros before Hoes Logan. Not worth it.

and the cost of leaving jennah to die meant kralkatorrik would likely still be alive, but jennah died, charrs are still at war with humans, which are now demoralized due to the loss of the queen, divinity’s reach sinks into corruption, and the 5 races never unite against the dragons.

congratulations, letting jennah die just doomed the world.

They were literally seconds away from killing Kralkatorrik without him, and the part he was supposed to cover is the reason they failed… sounds to me like there is a pretty kitten good chance they would have succeed with him there. And Jenna saved herself with her mesmer skills anyways so she technically didn’t even need him there.

On the other hand, I think the branded areas are some of the coolest parts to the game and am much looking forward to the time we get to kill Ole’ Kraky instead

It was Eir’s decision to proceed without Logan.
I do think Logan is often whiny, over protective of Jennah and annoying but all they had to do was wait or even help Logan and then go back to hunting down Kralkatorrik*. It’s not like Kralkatorrik was going anywhere.

It’s fascinating how the general player base has chosen to focus on Logan’s decision rather than Eir’s.

*Fixed

Drede.4701:

They were literally seconds away from killing Kralkatorrik without him, and the part he was supposed to cover is the reason they failed… sounds to me like there is a pretty kitten good chance they would have succeed with him there. And Jenna saved herself with her mesmer skills anyways so she technically didn’t even need him there.

On the other hand, I think the branded areas are some of the coolest parts to the game and am much looking forward to the time we get to kill Ole’ Kraky instead

they were seconds away from trying to stab kralk with a lance that could not even work (after all, even if the lance could pierce him and hurt him, it would be the equivalent of me stabbing you with a needle to the heart).

jennah only managed to summon the illusion because logan was there to hold the line and keep the branded from invading the house she was hiding in. if logan wasn’t there, and if logan hadn’t freed the charr, ebonhawke would’ve been completely destroyed, and all of that stuff i said about the results of jennah dying would’ve happened.

again, it was glint and snaff surviving to kill kralk, and the entire world crumbling and eventually dying (starting with the extinction of your own race), or losing glint and snaff, letting kralk go, but having another chance at defeating the dragons.

lose a battle to have a chance at winning the war.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Kerithlan.1659:

Dinks.2478:

Sajuuk.5706:

Not to be too blunt on the point, but is it just me or is Logan the dumbest member of Destiny’s Edge? Every time he speaks I hear “Hodor!”, and I’m pretty sure this isn’t a bug.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with him as a character, he’s well built and defined, just like the others.

He’s just dumb. The others in Destiny’s Edge have flaws for sure, big flaws, and watching them argue is like watching the world’s most dysfunctional family, but pretty much every reason they failed ties back to Logan. If Logan hadn’t left, Eir’s plan would have worked (and she wouldn’t sound like Eeyore all the time) , Snaff would still be alive, the Crystal Elder Dragon would be dead or severely weakened, Zojja wouldn’t hate everyone, and Rytlock wouldn’t want to disembowel Logan on sight (probably). The others are messed up, sure, but this all goes back to what Logan’s been in denial over for the past 5 someodd years. If he started yelling “Honor!” he’d be Prince Zuko.

P.S. Not meant to be a super serious post, just having some fun.

Logan was sworn to protect Jennah, He did what he had to do to protect the woman he loved, even if it meant sacrificing a chance to take down an elder dragon. I don’t think hes stupid, I think he just weighed the options and figured he didn’t want to destroy the elder dragons if the price was Jennah’s life.

The price of leaving to babysit Jennah was Kralkatorrik’s continued existence, the death of Snaff and Glint, the implosion of Destiny’s Edge and the near-destruction of the Human-Charr peace treaty when he more or less stabbed Rytlock (an incredibly powerful charr with tons of sway) in the back.

The problem here is Jennah and her attitude. She more or less cast Mesmer magic on Logan to make him love her and teleport to her at the drop of a hat, and then when she meddled with his guild (and directly caused their disbandment) so that he could come “save her” she ended up saving herself with more Mesmer magics anyway.

Jennah is such a B. Bros before Hoes Logan. Not worth it.

and the cost of leaving jennah to die meant kralkatorrik would likely still be alive, but jennah died, charrs are still at war with humans, which are now demoralized due to the loss of the queen, divinity’s reach sinks into corruption, and the 5 races never unite against the dragons.

congratulations, letting jennah die just doomed the world.

Jennah wouldn’t have died, if you’d read the book you’d know that the fight ended pretty much with her finally crawling out of her hole and casting super mesmer magic on everything followed by the Ebonhawke forces mopping up the remainder. It was never a matter of “Logan rallied everyone yay!” but rather “Logan fought to the death while Jennah hid in the closet for a while.”

Additionally there is no evidence that the humans and charr would be at war with each other if Jennah were to somehow die, especially considering that at the time of the battle Jennah’s truce was already in place. Seeing Logan and Rytlock united together in the wake of an Elder Dragon’s defeat would most likely draw the races closer together regardless of who took the Krytan throne in Jennah’s wake.

I find it humorous that you’d suggest the five races wouldn’t unite behind the dragons. If they’d been successful and if they’d slain Kralkatorrik, then they’d stand united as representatives of each of the races and be able to say, “Hey, yeah, we can do this, let’s mobilize our troops.”

The problem isn’t Logan making a bad choice or Eir making a bad choice, the problem is Jennah being a needy, infantile, selfish B. She’s the most powerful mesmer in the world. She doesn’t need some random guardian killing himself for her. She’s proven that on more than one occasion. In the personal story it’s pretty clear that Logan only sticks around because it’s what Jennah wants from him. Sure he might love her (whether or not he was manipulated into that is irrelevant), but he makes it very clear that he would leave if Jennah ordered him to.

Letting Jennah die would probably have turned her into a martyr and rallied the Krytans, and the mutual loss of the Charr outside of Ebonhawke would likely bring the races closer together. Nothing about Jennah pulling Logan away was good for anyone except for Jennah.

Alexander.4827:

It was Eir’s decision to proceed without Logan.
I do think Logan is often whiny, over protective of Jennah and annoying but all they had to do was wait or even help Logan and then go back to hunting down Jormag. It’s not like Jormag was going anywhere.

It’s fascinating how the general player base has chosen to focus on Logan’s decision rather than Eir’s.

It didn’t play out that way. They weren’t hunting Jormag, they were hunting Kralkatorrik, who had just awoken and was making a beeline for the Crystal Desert in order to slay Glint. Glint was Kralkatorrik’s champion and she had betrayed him, and so he wanted to kill her for her betrayal.

If they had waited around then Kralkatorrik would have shown up anyway. The decision Eir made was to meet him head-on rather than attempting to retreat or buy some time hiding or something. Zojja thinks that was a mistake. Glint could have comfortably hidden for a very long time in her lair (considering that it’s contained in a single grain of sand in a desert), so the problem was Eir’s impatience/pride.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Drede.4701:

They were literally seconds away from killing Kralkatorrik without him, and the part he was supposed to cover is the reason they failed… sounds to me like there is a pretty kitten good chance they would have succeed with him there. And Jenna saved herself with her mesmer skills anyways so she technically didn’t even need him there.

On the other hand, I think the branded areas are some of the coolest parts to the game and am much looking forward to the time we get to kill Ole’ Kraky instead

they were seconds away from trying to stab kralk with a lance that could not even work (after all, even if the lance could pierce him and hurt him, it would be the equivalent of me stabbing you with a needle to the heart).

jennah only managed to summon the illusion because logan was there to hold the line and keep the branded from invading the house she was hiding in. if logan wasn’t there, and if logan hadn’t freed the charr, ebonhawke would’ve been completely destroyed, and all of that stuff i said about the results of jennah dying would’ve happened.

again, it was glint and snaff surviving to kill kralk, and the entire world crumbling and eventually dying (starting with the extinction of your own race), or losing glint and snaff, letting kralk go, but having another chance at defeating the dragons.

lose a battle to have a chance at winning the war.

They were seconds away from Snaff taking control of Kralkatorrik’s mind. If the lance didn’t work they’d have plenty of time to try other stuff, such as forcing Kralkatorrik to go back to sleep. You are really confused if you believe that Jennah needed Logan there at all.

Also you act as though losing Ebonhawke in such a manner would be a bad thing. It’s one of the few things that the charr and humans are still at odds with each other over. If Ebonhawke was taken out of Ascalon then the charr would hold much less animosity against the humans, and the humans wouldn’t need to continue to fund an endless siege against the charr. Ebonhawke falling to the Branded would have eliminated one of the few tangible issues that remain between the humans and charr.

Kerithlan.1659:

Jennah wouldn’t have died, if you’d read the book you’d know that the fight ended pretty much with her finally crawling out of her hole and casting super mesmer magic on everything followed by the Ebonhawke forces mopping up the remainder. It was never a matter of “Logan rallied everyone yay!” but rather “Logan fought to the death while Jennah hid in the closet for a while.”

Additionally there is no evidence that the humans and charr would be at war with each other if Jennah were to somehow die, especially considering that at the time of the battle Jennah’s truce was already in place. Seeing Logan and Rytlock united together in the wake of an Elder Dragon’s defeat would most likely draw the races closer together regardless of who took the Krytan throne in Jennah’s wake.

I find it humorous that you’d suggest the five races wouldn’t unite behind the dragons. If they’d been successful and if they’d slain Kralkatorrik, then they’d stand united as representatives of each of the races and be able to say, “Hey, yeah, we can do this, let’s mobilize our troops.”

The problem isn’t Logan making a bad choice or Eir making a bad choice, the problem is Jennah being a needy, infantile, selfish B. She’s the most powerful mesmer in the world. She doesn’t need some random guardian killing himself for her. She’s proven that on more than one occasion. In the personal story it’s pretty clear that Logan only sticks around because it’s what Jennah wants from him. Sure he might love her (whether or not he was manipulated into that is irrelevant), but he makes it very clear that he would leave if Jennah ordered him to.

Letting Jennah die would probably have turned her into a martyr and rallied the Krytans, and the mutual loss of the Charr outside of Ebonhawke would likely bring the races closer together. Nothing about Jennah pulling Logan away was good for anyone except for Jennah.

recall the death of logan’s brother. when logan got there, there were a bunch of branded, ready to burst the door of jennah’s house open. the battle lasted for hours until jennah managed to cast the illusion.

jennah is pretty much the only person pushing the charr/human treaty that had the power to do something. the ministers (led by caudecus) are actually against it, as you learn in CM’s story mode as well as in a bunch of dialogue in divinity’s reach.

jennah financed the vigil’s attempts at obtaining the claw of Khan-Ur, to be offered as a gift of good will to the charr, in an attempt to bring the treaty to fruition.

logan and rytlock are two people, two people in two races. two races that have been at war for hundreds of years. recall Ghosts of Ascalon. even the charrs and humans that are pro-treaty have some attrition between it, and the separatist force on both sides is strong. the treaty was still not public, which meant that humans and charrs have kept their war going for years after the end of EoD. the truce didn’t happen until after ghosts of ascalon, which takes place years AFTER EoD. after all, logan and rytlock met each other by trying to kill each other in a sabotaging operation.

so yes, jennah’s death would pretty much mean the death of humans, the weakening and eventual death of the charr, and subsequently the death of all the other races in tyria, due to losing two of the major races, and never forming a strong, united force to take the dragons down.

I just don’t understand the romance between Logan and Jennah, it seems so superficial. I read the book, and when they met it just seemed so corny to me. The way I see the equation for him:

She’s the queen + She’s smokin’ = True love! :D

No.

Logan is the Rurik of GW2, and i dislike them both. Logan just seems so cookie cutter, twilighty and stupid, unable to diverse the difference between the needs of the many over the needs of the few. Sure if he had stayed to fight Kralkatorrik, Jenna would have likely died but if they had slain the Dragon, they would of saved countless lives not just for this age but for decades to come.

He’s not particularly heroic either, in Twilight Harbor he just ups and leaves (I know Rytlock does aswell, but from his character i’d expect him not to care that much) when Caithe is trying to do something for the good of her race. So yeah… Don’t like him and the experiences in game with him in it don’t do much to change my opinion.

However i did enjoy Zojja schooling him over Jenna’s capture in CM, quite funny

^ kralkatorrik has literally done nothing since that defeat.

jennah has created a charr/human alliance, putting a centuries-long war to rest, and saving far more lives than the death of kralk would. and that’s just naming one of the many things she did.