Guild Wars 2

Logan is a Thackeray, descendant of Gwen and Keiran Thackeray, founders of Ebonhawke and leaders of the Vanguard.

He should be a “VIP” in Ebonhawke and a respected figure of humanity the same way as someone from the royal line but in a lesser volume.

In the book Destiny’s edge, the guards of Ebonhawke only know him as a gladiator of the arena and the fighter of the DE.

Also, he can’t have an open relationship with Queen Jennah probably because he is lower ranked. He is the second or maybe most important character from Ascalon along with Wade Samuelsson. This relation could bring the two nations a bit closer.

Has his heritage had completely been forgotten? (Konig! Where are my answers?! ;D )

From how I understand it Gwen and Keiran came from Ascalon’s “peasantry” so their family probably still considered commoners. As for Ebonhawke’s guards not recognizing Logan as a Thackeray, it could be simply that over the centuries since its founding the Thackeray have grown and he is just a “distant cousin” of whatever Thackeray is in charge of Ebonhawke. But I have the odd feeling I am missing something.

He is a direct descendant. Also, his ancestors were peasants (or maybe not, we don’t know Keiran’s background), but then also became high-ranked military officers and the founders of the only still-standing Ascalonian city, while Logan too is being a high-ranked military officer.

And not a Thackeray’s in charge of Ebonhawke atm. Ok, Wade is a descendant of royal-blood Kings, but the Thackerays come next in the hierarchy. Also a part I don’t get.

Gandarel.5091:

And not a Thackeray’s in charge of Ebonhawke atm. Ok, Wade is a descendant okittengs, but the Thackerays come next in the hierarchy. Also a part I don’t get.

Wait a Thackeray not at the helm of the city and their family is still alive/not exiled from the city? I think I’m going to wait for the actual experts of Guild Wars Lore to come and explain everything now.

Calling me out actually made me tempted not to respond…

If Ascalonian nobility functions similarly to our own European nobility of the past (and a good deal of Ascalonian culture is seemingly based off of Medieval Europe), then military status or establishing what is effectively a fort with civilians at the time does nothing for one’s nobility without being elevated by a king or regent (or perhaps other very high ranking noble). Given how Wade’s the duke of Ebonhawke, it stands to reason that among those sent south was a noble who – fairly or not – probably took control of Ebonhawke politically, preventing the Thackeray’s from becoming nobles.

And even if they did become nobles, do keep in mind that Logan basically abandoned his family and its history sometime before Edge of Destiny for still unclear reasons (though a reason is known, I doubt sibling rivalry was the full situation). While Dylan, Logan’s brother, retained high status (though interestingly in Kryta) and seemingly not just because he was a Seraph captain, Logan was a low-living mercenary. So it may be that the Thackeray’s did have some sort of noble status, but Logan threw it away and never reclaimed it (he’s a Seraph captain due to his prowess in battle and exploits with Destiny’s Edge, not his lineage).

Though this is mostly speculative since we’re not really told anything.

I found it to be noteworthy that not only once since GoA was published Rytlock mentioned Logan’s descendancy from “Gwen the Goremonger” (someone correct me if i am wrong). Given the bad blood between Rytlock and Logan for a long time i would have expected Rytlock to at least mention it at some point, holding it against Logan.

It makes me believe that Logan’s ancestry was downplayed on purpose, either to save it up for some future content, or it wasn’t meant to be important in the first place, like the whole situation around Ebonhawke kinda plays a minor role in the game. I am hoping for the former, that it will eventually be addressed ingame.

I doubt that his social rank would be reason for Jennah not to enter a relationship with him, as it is not impossible for a royal to marry a commoner (i think that behind the scenes Jennah and Logan have had a relationship for some time, it’s just not made public).

Salma was an illegitimate child who wasn’t raised as a noble, Adelbern didn’t come from nobility (although he was a descendant of Doric), and Wade Samualsson doesn’t really strike me as a nobleman too, more like a commoner elevated into his position. Logan is a “hero”, what should speak against the queen marrying him?

But i think that the game designers are simply saving the topic of Logan’s ancestry up for the future.

Jennah fears the Ministry (members that are opposed to her at least) would use her and Logan’s relationship as a means to undermine her ability to rule. Said in the human lvl 28 personal story (regardless of order, you just have to talk to Jennah to find this out).

correct me if i’m wrong, but gwen and kieran were sent to ebonhawke to protect it, they didn’t just grab a bunch of people and decided to found a city.

and logan was the lesser-known brother, his big bro was the big, famous one until he died and logan became the queen’s champion (and a member of destiny’s edge), so even assuming that the thackerays were that important to humanity, logan was pretty much living in the shadow of his brother his whole life.

They were sent in the general direction of “south” to protect “the south.” And people were sent with them. They then found an abandoned mining village and established a semi-fort there to live in.

BrunoBRS.5178:

correct me if i’m wrong, but gwen and kieran were sent to ebonhawke to protect it, they didn’t just grab a bunch of people and decided to found a city.

Ebonhawke was originally said to be a pre-existing city and Gwen and co were sent there to maintain the flow of supplies north, but they retconned it in the game to be an abandoned mining village (which is kind of boring).

Knox.8462:

BrunoBRS.5178:

correct me if i’m wrong, but gwen and kieran were sent to ebonhawke to protect it, they didn’t just grab a bunch of people and decided to found a city.

Ebonhawke was originally said to be a pre-existing city and Gwen and co were sent there to maintain the flow of supplies north, but they retconned it in the game to be an abandoned mining village (which is kind of boring).

well one doesn’t cancel the other out. the king needed supplies, he knew there was a mine area there, sent the ebon vanguard to reinstate the place.

at the end of the day, it still sounds like the place belongs to ascalonian nobility, not the two random soldiers that happened to be issued there.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Knox.8462:

BrunoBRS.5178:

correct me if i’m wrong, but gwen and kieran were sent to ebonhawke to protect it, they didn’t just grab a bunch of people and decided to found a city.

Ebonhawke was originally said to be a pre-existing city and Gwen and co were sent there to maintain the flow of supplies north, but they retconned it in the game to be an abandoned mining village (which is kind of boring).

well one doesn’t cancel the other out. the king needed supplies, he knew there was a mine area there, sent the ebon vanguard to reinstate the place.

at the end of the day, it still sounds like the place belongs to ascalonian nobility, not the two random soldiers that happened to be issued there.

No the King’s reasoning was retconned too, he sent them south due to some sort of mysterious threat emerging in the Crystal Desert. The Vanguard merely came across the abandoned town accidentally.

The previous backstory suggested that Ebonhawke was a surviving city that was supplying the north, which was more interesting to me.

and to protect themselves from the threat coming from the crystal desert, they built a wall… pointing north. oh-kaaay.

BrunoBRS.5178:

and to protect themselves from the threat coming from the crystal desert, they built a wall… pointing north. oh-kaaay.

They built a gate sealing off the main pass to the desert. South Ebonhawke doesn’t need a wall, it’s protected by mountains.

“The Vanguard is being sent south, to the mouth of the Crystal Desert, where a dire threat is rising. They’re charged with building fortifications to protect against an enemy the king warns is coming.”

“This gate serves as a barrier against the Crystal Desert. Letting you through would be condemning you to death. Dark events have befallen the desert.”

Knox.8462:

BrunoBRS.5178:

and to protect themselves from the threat coming from the crystal desert, they built a wall… pointing north. oh-kaaay.

They built a gate sealing off the main pass to the desert. South Ebonhawke doesn’t need a wall, it’s protected by mountains.

“The Vanguard is being sent south, to the mouth of the Crystal Desert, where a dire threat is rising. They’re charged with building fortifications to protect against an enemy the king warns is coming.”

“This gate serves as a barrier against the Crystal Desert. Letting you through would be condemning you to death. Dark events have befallen the desert.”

i just don’t see what exactly that threat could be back when adelbern was still alive. his main issue were the charr, which were to the north, not south. i’m not doubting you, just trying to make sense out of it.

that line about not letting people through the desert gate is referencing the brand, or that’s how i always interpreted it.

Adelbern sent civilians away, guarded by the Ebon Vanguard, which may imply that he wanted to create some refuge for Ascalonians, or that he wanted to get “unwanted” elements out of the way – foremost the Ebon Vanguard, who had not only cooperated with Pyre Fierceshot and his warband, but had also gone to aid Kryta against his orders.

I do not buy the story about the “threat” in the desert, and the only possibility for that would have been Palawa Joko in Elona, pretty far away from Ascalon, and he took control of Elona only 60 years after GW Nightfall.

Actually, according to the books in-game, it turned out there were charr to the south. Rather Adelbern knew that, however, is questionable. A lot of the earlier books make it sound like he was trying to rid himself of undesirables.

Knox.8462:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Knox.8462:

BrunoBRS.5178:

correct me if i’m wrong, but gwen and kieran were sent to ebonhawke to protect it, they didn’t just grab a bunch of people and decided to found a city.

Ebonhawke was originally said to be a pre-existing city and Gwen and co were sent there to maintain the flow of supplies north, but they retconned it in the game to be an abandoned mining village (which is kind of boring).

well one doesn’t cancel the other out. the king needed supplies, he knew there was a mine area there, sent the ebon vanguard to reinstate the place.

at the end of the day, it still sounds like the place belongs to ascalonian nobility, not the two random soldiers that happened to be issued there.

No the King’s reasoning was retconned too, he sent them south due to some sort of mysterious threat emerging in the Crystal Desert. The Vanguard merely came across the abandoned town accidentally.

The previous backstory suggested that Ebonhawke was a surviving city that was supplying the north, which was more interesting to me.

Technically speaking… the King’s reasoning that was told to the Ebon Vanguard was to “defend the south from a threat” – but his reasoning learned from GoA may have been his true reasoning.

GW2 heavily plays on the theme of “subjective truths” – so really neither situation was a retcon, just facts presented by people who know different things. In GoA, it was known that it was a village and was fortified by the Vanguard and said to have been done so on the king’s orders. The Ebon Vanguard’s telling is that they weren’t told to fortify the place, but found it and did so.

Usually the truth lies between the lies.

It’s even said that the Vanguard suspect that the southern threat is a hoax by Adelbern for alternative reasons – until they meet charr down south.