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Posted by: InsidiousWaffle.7086

InsidiousWaffle.7086

Quick question about airship classifications-

As far as I understand, we have seen several classes of airship so far. The Pact has 2, The small ships, similar to the aetherblade airships, with two stacks if guns on each side. They are mostly of charr design, and have the balloon on the top, to protect it from
Ground fire.

In addition, the pact holds a larger set of ships, represented best by The Glory of Tyria and Mellaggan’s Valor. I’m going to go into my thoughts about this one in a second.

As far as other flyers go, there is also the charr helicopters.

I want to know what the names of each of these are called officially, as in the name of their class of warship(IE the flagships are called Glory Class, the smaller ships are Dragonrender Class etc(I’ll be using these names for the rest of the post)

Now, on to the Glory of Tyria and it’s sister ships. In my opinion the design of the thing makes no sense, at least not for fighting dragons and ground based targets. As opposed the the Dragonrender class of airship, which has both protected, ground facing guns, and a balloon that is mostly out of sight for the ground, the Glory class has it’s balloon facing toward the ground, and it’s side guns cannot depress themselves beyond maybe -15 degrees, and the main deck guns can’t even approach that. In addition, the exhaust port(located in the front of the ship(the blue glowing thing)) is completely exposed and unprotected. I don’t know then, why the pact would fly over a jungle, fighting what they assumed to be ground targets, with a ship that is not only incapable of handling ground based targets, but actually vulnerable to them.

In defense of the Glory class, it makes great sense as an air superiority vessel, with the exception of the exposed exhaust. It has a great field of fire, because it’s guns aren’t fixed like the Dragonrender class, it’s maneuverable due to the wings on the back, and the interior of the ballon is heavily reinforced, which would allow it to take a puncture and keep going, which is an advantage over the Dragonrender class which has an external balloon frame.

I’d basically just like the name of the classes, including the charr flyers, and vehicles in general, as well as a dialogue line or two from Zojja, taimi, or some char engineer on the weaknesses of the glory class, as well as a possible redesign in the upcoming living world or expansion stories. I know it’s a minor thing, but minor things really matter if the goal is to make an immersive game

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

I agree that expanding on the lore of the military vehicles would add to the immersion factor of this war-based game. However, it might be asking too much to have them design realistic weapons platforms … after all, the flags on the backs of sailing vessels (themselves designed in such a way as to be wallowing pigs in any chop at all) still stream backwards from the stern when sailing under full canvas. As far as I know, if the wind is astern, any lightweight flappy bits of cloth will be blown for’ard, right?

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Posted by: Ehecatl.9172

Ehecatl.9172

InsideousWaffle, it’s entirely likely the “glory class” ships, as you call them, were designed specifically as an anti-air vessel meant to fight aerial opponents. The airships were designed to deal with Zhaitan specifically, and of all the Elder Dragons he seemed to use flying creatures far more often than the rest. There were entire fleets of Risen dragons filling the skies of Orr, after all. So it makes perfect sense to have a ship class dedicated entirely to aerial combat.

The reason they chose that as their flag ship is likely because Zhaitan himself was a winged dragon and was fully capable of flight. So was Kraalkatorrik. We haven’t met Jormag yet but his concept art involves wings. So that’s three out of four Elder Dragons that the Pact knew had flight capabilities, with the last dragon being subterranean anyway. It makes sense to choose the anti-air vessel as your flagship and mount your Elder Dragon killing weapon on it when you are facing a foe you know is capable of taking to the air.

As for bringing anti-air to Modremoth, that just makes sense. They didn’t know exactly what Modremoth was packing, so they brought their full kitten nal. Given every other known dragon makes use of flying units, even Primordus with his Destroyer harpies, it makes sense to assume that this dragon is also capable of fielding aerial units that need to be countered. Plus we knew Modremoth had things like Shadow of the Dragon which was capable of flight, and like Zhaitan it was entirely likely he had more back home waiting.

They just weren’t expecting a massive assault from the ground the likes of which no Elder Dragon has ever launched before.

Edit: What? I can’t say kitten nal? It just means a store of weapons…

(edited by Ehecatl.9172)

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Posted by: Aidan Savage.2078

Aidan Savage.2078

InsideousWaffle, it’s entirely likely the “glory class” ships, as you call them, were designed specifically as an anti-air vessel meant to fight aerial opponents. The airships were designed to deal with Zhaitan specifically, and of all the Elder Dragons he seemed to use flying creatures far more often than the rest. There were entire fleets of Risen dragons filling the skies of Orr, after all. So it makes perfect sense to have a ship class dedicated entirely to aerial combat.

The reason they chose that as their flag ship is likely because Zhaitan himself was a winged dragon and was fully capable of flight. So was Kraalkatorrik. We haven’t met Jormag yet but his concept art involves wings. So that’s three out of four Elder Dragons that the Pact knew had flight capabilities, with the last dragon being subterranean anyway. It makes sense to choose the anti-air vessel as your flagship and mount your Elder Dragon killing weapon on it when you are facing a foe you know is capable of taking to the air.

As for bringing anti-air to Modremoth, that just makes sense. They didn’t know exactly what Modremoth was packing, so they brought their full kitten nal. Given every other known dragon makes use of flying units, even Primordus with his Destroyer harpies, it makes sense to assume that this dragon is also capable of fielding aerial units that need to be countered. Plus we knew Modremoth had things like Shadow of the Dragon which was capable of flight, and like Zhaitan it was entirely likely he had more back home waiting.

They just weren’t expecting a massive assault from the ground the likes of which no Elder Dragon has ever launched before.

Edit: What? I can’t say kitten nal? It just means a store of weapons…

kitten . <- Nal. Just the peculiarity of the filter.

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Posted by: InsidiousWaffle.7086

InsidiousWaffle.7086

InsideousWaffle, it’s entirely likely the “glory class” ships, as you call them, were designed specifically as an anti-air vessel meant to fight aerial opponents. The airships were designed to deal with Zhaitan specifically, and of all the Elder Dragons he seemed to use flying creatures far more often than the rest. There were entire fleets of Risen dragons filling the skies of Orr, after all. So it makes perfect sense to have a ship class dedicated entirely to aerial combat.

The reason they chose that as their flag ship is likely because Zhaitan himself was a winged dragon and was fully capable of flight. So was Kraalkatorrik. We haven’t met Jormag yet but his concept art involves wings. So that’s three out of four Elder Dragons that the Pact knew had flight capabilities, with the last dragon being subterranean anyway. It makes sense to choose the anti-air vessel as your flagship and mount your Elder Dragon killing weapon on it when you are facing a foe you know is capable of taking to the air.

As for bringing anti-air to Modremoth, that just makes sense. They didn’t know exactly what Modremoth was packing, so they brought their full kitten nal. Given every other known dragon makes use of flying units, even Primordus with his Destroyer harpies, it makes sense to assume that this dragon is also capable of fielding aerial units that need to be countered. Plus we knew Modremoth had things like Shadow of the Dragon which was capable of flight, and like Zhaitan it was entirely likely he had more back home waiting.

They just weren’t expecting a massive assault from the ground the likes of which no Elder Dragon has ever launched before.

Edit: What? I can’t say kitten nal? It just means a store of weapons…

I guess my real problem is that it has no way to defend its balloon, whereas the Dragonrender class of ship does. Either way, all I originally wanted was some more info on the military and such Q-Q

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

I guess my real problem is that it has no way to defend its balloon, whereas the Dragonrender class of ship does. Either way, all I originally wanted was some more info on the military and such Q-Q

Well if you’re expecting an attack from above, wouldn’t having the balloon above you leave it defenseless instead?

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

The ‘airbags’ of historical rigid airships were actually pretty tough, due to being made of multiple redundant cells rather than one big easily popped balloon. Realistically speaking, the airbag would still be pretty vulnerable to a dragon crashing into it and just tearing it to pieces, but if it’s made of sufficiently tough materials (and the Glory class does have that ‘fishscale’ pattern which could indicate that the airbag is armoured) it might not be that much less vulnerable to that sort of treatment than the deck itself.

Particularly if the cells aren’t filled with hydrogen.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: InsidiousWaffle.7086

InsidiousWaffle.7086

Konig,

The main difference between the two is that the ‘Dragonrender’ has deck guns that cover the airspace around the balloon, whereas the ‘Glory’ clas doesnt

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Posted by: Scott McGough

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Scott McGough

Narrative Lead

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Hey all,

Thanks for your patience; I’ve been unable to keep up with this thread due to all the other stuff that’s going on in and around the studio.

We are working on a more reliable and comprehensive method of addressing lore questions, and I will keep you posted.

I do have one more reply to contribute in the short term—I asked for a specific question posed by smitske to be rephrased and it was, so I’m going to tackle that.

We are keeping track of the rest and will revisit the list of questions once we have a plan for exactly how; until then, watch this space for updates, and thanks again.

But on to smitske’s rephrased question:

Still not at liberty to discuss future story developments, but: I understand you see missed opportunities in HoT that could have advanced or resolved some of the big outstanding questions surrounding the sylvari race. HoT’s story (both in story instances and the open world) was conceived and designed with a tight focus on the urgent, PC-led response to Mordremoth destroying the Pact fleet. For example, we initially had plans to include Malyck, but ultimately his plotline fell outside that focus.

This tight focus, along with the precedent of not having detailed backgrounds for every profession in the core game, was also a factor in the decision to not present background lore for the new elite specializations. The elite specs did not all originate in the jungle during the relatively small window of time covered in HoT; exploring their origins would have meant tangential story threads that took place outside the jungle and outside the timeline of the events in HoT.

—Scott McG

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

For feedback for the future, I would say that plotlines and threads that encompass areas outside the jungle or main thread would have been something I’d have loved to have played through (and genuinely thought we were getting something that sweeping in scale rather than feeling like we had played Act One).
It also felt less logical to charge headlong into the jungle the way we did for the sake of 3 captives. I say this after re-playing the Battle for Fort Trinity, where dozens of Pact soldiers were sacrificed for the greater good to keep the risen out whilst the gates were being closed, knowing that any risen pact soldiers would risk giving inside information to Zhaitan.

Expansions set a bar for a wider sort of narrative and storytelling and I hope to see a much less narrow focus for the next expacs going forwward. The lore/story team have set seeds for some great potential storylines and branching outwards can only ever be beneficial and gainful for anyone who loves playing story modes.

Prophecies is a pretty good example of how your team can do it well. Many stories are covered in that journey and players have fond memories and yearnings for many things that appeared in that campaign (Mursaat, White Mantle, the fall of Ascalon, The Forgotten, Ascension, The Seer, Glint and the Prophecies, the Dwarven civil War, Titans, The Scepter of Orr, etc etc)

That’s the feedback for what I personally hope for in the direction of storytelling in future expacs anyway.

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Posted by: BuddhaKeks.4857

BuddhaKeks.4857

We are working on a more reliable and comprehensive method of addressing lore questions, and I will keep you posted.

That’s great news! I hope my question about Krytan royalty will be adressed too then (after it was skipped… grumble grumble… I still like you though)

You don’t win friends with salad! Sorry I just got caught up in the rhythm.

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

This tight focus, along with the precedent of not having detailed backgrounds for every profession in the core game, was also a factor in the decision to not present background lore for the new elite specializations. The elite specs did not all originate in the jungle during the relatively small window of time covered in HoT; exploring their origins would have meant tangential story threads that took place outside the jungle and outside the timeline of the events in HoT.

I can’t really agree here. I believe there isn’t much detail needed for these specializations to exist, but rather show that they are part of this world.
The core professions actually have background, most of the time reaching back to GW1 and thus they have their place in the world.
Being based on these core professions and adding some simple NPCs, that would explain some nuances of the them, which might be tied into the specialization collection and would have actually enhanced them.

Like that we had to find some NPCs, that trained their core class in that direction. Maybe we have to best them in battle, to prove our worth, or something (not to unlock the spec, but for the collection).

I mean, even our core profession is an abstract of the abilities the profession actually has. We are combat focused and that’s why we see other NPCs who are our profession use other or supperior abilities (like bone bridge, flying, perma stealth, Mass Clones, etc.)

Dropping in NPCs, who give a bit of background, would greatly enhance the stand, these new spezializations have in the world and these could be “unfocused”

I mean, most specializations explain themselves, but then we have something like the Dragonhunters, who are just full of WTF (remember the big DH thread after reveal, that still hasn’t gotten a better explanation aside from “They ran with a very rough concept idea.” and “witch hunter”.)

Adding a “Master” or a specialy trained group of a profession into the world, would just fill that gap.
For example:
- A hidden thieves den, which houses daredevils.
- A group of Dragonhunters that patrols in Orr
- A master at the statue of Grenth in Lonars Pass or in Kessex, who hides close to the underworld and trains his art.

There would have been several ways to show few indiviuals mastering these skills and thus give us a reason to believe that the specs are actually integrated into this world, since most we have right now, would be similiarities between the Biconics and the Specs.

Questions
Well, since there might be a better system for these things coming, I put my little questions out, hopefully in “easy” terms.

1. Can you confirm that it was indeed Mordremoth Scarlet heard and that pushed her to perform the things, she did?
Right now we only have a unreliable source that confirmed that. However with the reveal that the Sylvari are dragon minions, her motives are still to be doubt.
I am asking to take as many unclear parts of Scarlet’s story to rest. (aka no hidden enemy, ala Abaddon, that pushed Mordy awakening for his own plans and will resurect her later to spite us)

2. Is Queensdale in danger of being flooded, if something bursts the damm?
This area seems unstable in the long run and we already have confirmed quakes (big hole in DE) for that area.
Bonus How tight are the rules for greatly reveamping starterzones, since something like that would end up doing that.

(edited by Jaken.6801)

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Posted by: smitske.4912

smitske.4912

Hey all,

Thanks for your patience; I’ve been unable to keep up with this thread due to all the other stuff that’s going on in and around the studio.

We are working on a more reliable and comprehensive method of addressing lore questions, and I will keep you posted.

I do have one more reply to contribute in the short term—I asked for a specific question posed by smitske to be rephrased and it was, so I’m going to tackle that.

We are keeping track of the rest and will revisit the list of questions once we have a plan for exactly how; until then, watch this space for updates, and thanks again.

But on to smitske’s rephrased question:

Still not at liberty to discuss future story developments, but: I understand you see missed opportunities in HoT that could have advanced or resolved some of the big outstanding questions surrounding the sylvari race. HoT’s story (both in story instances and the open world) was conceived and designed with a tight focus on the urgent, PC-led response to Mordremoth destroying the Pact fleet. For example, we initially had plans to include Malyck, but ultimately his plotline fell outside that focus.

This tight focus, along with the precedent of not having detailed backgrounds for every profession in the core game, was also a factor in the decision to not present background lore for the new elite specializations. The elite specs did not all originate in the jungle during the relatively small window of time covered in HoT; exploring their origins would have meant tangential story threads that took place outside the jungle and outside the timeline of the events in HoT.

Thanks a lot for coming back to me! I was actually planning on bumping the thread to bring it back to live just when you posted.

I can understand you are not able to discuss further development, I just hope you wont try to ‘force’ Malyck etc in in an unnatural way now because people mentioned that, at this point I somewhat have the feeling that perhaps the right moment for that has passed, unless can you make it feel natural enough to bring him in in some way. I read a lot about how things have been scrapped because they did not fit the atmosphere of the ‘sense of urgency’ you wanted to bring over, but now at hindsight and looking at the opinions about it do you still stand behind this decision? From my point it seems that that was actually the whole problem with the story, a focus on urgency but not letting the story flow its natural course, leaving some plot holes. For example Malyck has been scrapped because it would derail us from the path you have chosen, but should he really derail us? I mean he could have been an enemy we met, but lore wise to me it makes no sense whatsoever with the knowledge I have now that there was no trace of him whatsoever. This ties perfectly together with another gripe I have, the 3 legendary commanders, we don’t know anything of them. Why not make one of them Malyck? Only one directions you could take. But anyway my point with that is that someone else said that originally all 3 should have been in the PS and eventually 2 got scrapped, again for the sense of urgency of the plot. To my view that plot idea was the one that was the real problem and should have been scrapped. I have no doubt a lot of other great ideas you guys might have had were scrapped in favor of that, things that we don’t even know about.

The thing is, to me with the original 8 profession is that they have lore within the universe before the start of GW2, they existed and were already there with some legacy from GW1. But the new ones came out of nowhere and what bugs me the most is we don’t see anyone else with those elite specs of the npc’s even in the HoT maps, with the exception of Marjory with a great sword, on the other hand Braham doesn’t even use the bow. You say they did not all originate in the jungle and indeed they don’t have to nor would it make sense, but I do not think that view holds to not put their lore in HoT. Before the HoT release I already brought forth an idea of having mentors that could be put in a story line. For chronomancers for example Anyse, reapers had Marjory, DH some quest to slay a great beast in the jungle with someone and so on. The argument brought forth against it is that it would not fit with the flow of the story, but the technology is there already (at least partially) to not make that an issue, the story journal. You could have just added another section for your class that we could do at our own leisure, independent of our progression on the main story line. I don’t really see how that would break the sense of urgency of the main story more than mastery gates put in place to stop us from progressing too fast. As a question for future expansions, if you are at liberty to talk about that of course, are you open to placing certain lore bits like this for coming elite specs, to give them a proper place lore wise in the GW2 world, or is it completely of the table? On one end it would not be very consistent to do so which I personally am not really a fan of, unless you place origin stories for the current set of elite specs in the game. On the other hand we do have a saying on Anet and consistency on reddit and I do think that making those origin stories would contribute greatly to GW2 and could bring some interesting lore perspectives. As well as give us more to do on expansions.

Anyway thanks for your time and I hope to read something soon about getting that more reliant way of interacting on lore.

(edited by smitske.4912)

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Posted by: Whilyam.9356

Whilyam.9356

I haven’t found an answer to this and I’ve been curious ever since I met Taimi: What is the full nature of Taimi’s disease? Has anyone else contracted it? Are there ways to live with it? Does it only strike the legs?

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

I haven’t found an answer to this and I’ve been curious ever since I met Taimi: What is the full nature of Taimi’s disease? Has anyone else contracted it? Are there ways to live with it? Does it only strike the legs?

I get the impression it’s a degenerative nerve disease akin to MS or Lou Gehrig’s (ALS, same thing Stephen Hawking has). In Taimi’s case it’s affected her legs most strongly but the implication is that it’s going to spread and her life isn’t going to be very long. My memory’s hazy on the origin of this impression but I’d look to her dialog with Braham in the Edge of the Mists.

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Posted by: wouw.5837

wouw.5837

Just some yes or no questions, no need to go in depth (you always can of course)

Is Evennia a dropped storyline?

Is there any Lore written about the humans homeworld?

Can you confirm the existence of the now dead spider god?

Is there going to be progress on the Charr/Human treaty?

Is Rotscale a minion from Zaithen?

Is Rotscale dead (well dead dead)? You never HAD to kill him in any quests.

Btw thanks for doing this.

Elona is Love, Elona is life.

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

Is Rotscale dead (well dead dead)? You never HAD to kill him in any quests.

Listed just in case, but I’ll point out that in GW1 optional objectives were treated as canon. Add in that Kieran had the Rotwing bow skin when you get him as a hero, and there’s a strong case that he took the beastie down.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: wouw.5837

wouw.5837

Here again,

Was there ever anything planned for the Zaishen at Fort Mariner?

Are the Modus Scelerit Cancelled?

Elona is Love, Elona is life.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Is Rotscale dead (well dead dead)? You never HAD to kill him in any quests.

Listed just in case, but I’ll point out that in GW1 optional objectives were treated as canon. Add in that Kieran had the Rotwing bow skin when you get him as a hero, and there’s a strong case that he took the beastie down.

I think it’s outright stated that Keiran killed it, in fact. Mind you, it’s possible that it’s like a lich and will keep coming back after it’s killed: Majesty’s Rest is not currently explorable, after all…

(Regarding optional objectives: It is worth noting that Glint didn’t die in the Dragon’s Lair bonus… at least not permanently. The Forgotten may have resurrected her.)

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

There’s no outright statement, however, when you obtain Keiran as a hero, you get a new Keiran’s Bow which uses the Rotwing Recurve Bow skin, which drops from Rotscale.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Question, unsure if it was asked as I don’t have the time to read the long posts in this thread since I last looked.

Anet, is there any reason why the PC so utterly hates Caithe in the final missions of HoT, where the PC’s comment about Caithe disappearing after City of Hope (taking the egg to Tarir), is a neutral sounding statement about how “She’ll turn up again.” Then the very next time they meet, the PC is extremely hateful and distrusting of Caithe.

edit: I ask because it feels to me that the relationship between the PC and Caithe does a number of dramatic flip-flops in HoT.

(edited by Kalavier.1097)

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

Question, unsure if it was asked as I don’t have the time to read the long posts in this thread since I last looked.

Anet, is there any reason why the PC so utterly hates Caithe in the final missions of HoT, where the PC’s comment about Caithe disappearing after City of Hope (taking the egg to Tarir), is a neutral sounding statement about how “She’ll turn up again.” Then the very next time they meet, the PC is extremely hateful and distrusting of Caithe.

edit: I ask because it feels to me that the relationship between the PC and Caithe does a number of dramatic flip-flops in HoT.

To be honest, there are a lot of dramatic flip-flops.
I think there is a lot we have to add in ourselves, because we only see important moments.
That’s why we suddenly trust Canach, even though we declared our hate for a long time and are all buddy buddy with him at the end.
We missed the budding friendship that blossomed in several nights spend together under the stars.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Question, unsure if it was asked as I don’t have the time to read the long posts in this thread since I last looked.

Anet, is there any reason why the PC so utterly hates Caithe in the final missions of HoT, where the PC’s comment about Caithe disappearing after City of Hope (taking the egg to Tarir), is a neutral sounding statement about how “She’ll turn up again.” Then the very next time they meet, the PC is extremely hateful and distrusting of Caithe.

edit: I ask because it feels to me that the relationship between the PC and Caithe does a number of dramatic flip-flops in HoT.

To be honest, there are a lot of dramatic flip-flops.
I think there is a lot we have to add in ourselves, because we only see important moments.
That’s why we suddenly trust Canach, even though we declared our hate for a long time and are all buddy buddy with him at the end.
We missed the budding friendship that blossomed in several nights spend together under the stars.

That’s part of my confusion too, at least from a player out of world perspective. Everybody hates Caithe, an ally who is sometimes Shady but works for the greater good, but loves Canach, a literal criminal who unleashed the Karka on LA and Southsun, and tried to kill us a few times. :P

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Posted by: Squee.7829

Squee.7829

I think the betrayal element added to a lot of hate for Caithe. It’s certainly why I would have preferred killing her over Faolain by the end of the story. (I would have liked to kill both, but I really hated Caithe). With Canach, we have a guy we had no reason to trust or even like. He was kind of a bad guy. And we expect a bad guy to do bad things. Up until we’re pleasantly surprised when he ends up doing good things.

Caithe was the opposite. While what Caithe did wasn’t technically “bad” or malicious, it was a complete breach of trust. Here was a person we had put a lot of faith into to help us and generally be our friend, and she goes and steals Glint’s egg from us. We were on the same side. All parties involved wanted the egg to be safe, but she stole it from us for…what? Because she thought we were too incompetent to handle it? We ended up spending time and resources on a ridiculous goose chase just to make sure we and Caithe were still on the same side.

Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

I think the betrayal element added to a lot of hate for Caithe. It’s certainly why I would have preferred killing her over Faolain by the end of the story. (I would have liked to kill both, but I really hated Caithe). With Canach, we have a guy we had no reason to trust or even like. He was kind of a bad guy. And we expect a bad guy to do bad things. Up until we’re pleasantly surprised when he ends up doing good things.

Caithe was the opposite. While what Caithe did wasn’t technically “bad” or malicious, it was a complete breach of trust. Here was a person we had put a lot of faith into to help us and generally be our friend, and she goes and steals Glint’s egg from us. We were on the same side. All parties involved wanted the egg to be safe, but she stole it from us for…what? Because she thought we were too incompetent to handle it? We ended up spending time and resources on a ridiculous goose chase just to make sure we and Caithe were still on the same side.

Because Caithe is one of the stealthiest people around and we were in areas the Mordrem had strength/access to easily? :P

And she never thought we were incompetent. Hate the explanation she gave if you want, but she did say she got a new wyld hunt to protect the egg/take it somewhere safe (I think she saw Tarir in it), and it was incredibly overpowering.

I love Canach in an out of character manner, but I see no reason why the PC should extend the incredible amount of trust they did (IMO) to him.

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Posted by: Squee.7829

Squee.7829

Because Caithe is one of the stealthiest people around and we were in areas the Mordrem had strength/access to easily? :P

And she never thought we were incompetent. Hate the explanation she gave if you want, but she did say she got a new wyld hunt to protect the egg/take it somewhere safe (I think she saw Tarir in it), and it was incredibly overpowering.

I love Canach in an out of character manner, but I see no reason why the PC should extend the incredible amount of trust they did (IMO) to him.

Something she never bothered to mention beforehand. A simple heads-up would have saved us a lot of time chasing a greenish ninja through the jungle. But she didn’t tell us anything. There’s no other way I can take that. She just didn’t trust us, either with the egg or the information regarding her actions. And it was just rude.

Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

The thing is that the PC begins being buddy buddy to Canach pretty much right away in HoT – even moreso for sylvari PCs than non-sylvari – when Canach has done nothing new since the last time we talked to him where his latest action was overhearing top secret information, telling us he heard, and the PC threatening to kill him if he shared that information.

Truth be told, I don’t think Canach did enough to earn such hatred and ire from the PC in the first place – because while he was a criminal who endangered innocents he did so with a good intention: to keep them from being effectively enslaved by the Consortium to be kept on a highly dangerous landscape (Southsun). Good intentions with bad means doesn’t really result in such hostile reactions by the good guys who work hard to save innocents day and night. They’d be disapproving, yes, but outright threatening his life time and time again should he fall a single step out of line (and it’s not just about the dragon egg info, but also things like scouting for Caithe’s party or just simply being forced to be at Anise’s Krytan party).

As for Caithe, she has a LONG history of acting before telling and doing things that seem a bit odd and potentially malicious – as well as downright malicious when it comes to the Nightmare Court due to her personal history with them – so her actions with the egg is not really unique. It’s a much more important task she’s interfering with than before, yes, but not out of character at all. Yet she’s treated like she’s a traitorous kitten.

Basically, Canach and Caithe are very similar individuals, who do questionable things with good intentions, and the PC knows this. But the PC is outwardly hostile to the point of threatening death upon them the moment they stepped out of line near them once S2 began – something the PC should be used to from the events of the PC and S1. And then Canach is magically forgiven and Caithe… seems to be as well by the end of Hearts and Minds? Not really sure.

It’s very weird. Throughout the Personal Story and Season 1, the PC was this trusting individual. Then Season 2 comes around and it’s “how DARE you not act to my EXACT orders and demands! I’ll kill you for standing three inches to the left when you should be standing five inches to the right!”

Of course, this only to sylvari… And before the reveal.

It makes sense for Braham, Rox, Marjory, and Kasmeer to act as they do – they never show open hostility to Canach, but don’t know Caithe’s history like the PC, Rytlock, and Canach do. But Rytlock also acts with open hostility towards – despite knowing her questionable methods even longer than the PC – and I think Canach does too at some points. Which just doesn’t make sense.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

I think in the case of Canach, part of it is that during season 2, people pointed out that the PC was being a bit too harsh. We had someone who we had apprehended for doing the wrong thing for altruistic reasons, who had since spent pretty much every conversation with the PC expressing remorse for his actions, chose not to take advantage of a breakout of a fellow prisoner, and who to all appearances was looking to make amends. The change was pretty sudden, but it was getting a bit silly that the PC was still threatening Canach at every opportunity towards the end of Season 2. (Unless it became a joke between them or something – most of those discussions were in text, so it’s possible there was a change in tone we missed…)

In the case of Caithe… you have to give her some credit. When we found her, she was pretty much the next clearing over from the north gate of Tarir, and not showing any signs of having switched her loyalty to Mordremoth or the Nightmare Court. Killing her for that would clearly be out of line. On the other hand, mistrust breeds mistrust. Caithe had two opportunities to tell the PC that her Wyld Hunt is showing her where to take the egg, and the first time she skips out, the second time she uses the sylvari-Mordremoth connection as a distraction to not say anything about the egg. It’s also pretty suspicious that the Shadow of the Dragon turns up right after the PC demands the egg: that’s probably got more to do with the Mordrem having been attracted by the Divine Fire ritual to get in, but one could easily have come out of that thinking that Caithe intended to give the egg to Mordremoth.

Part of it, though, might well be the PC looking to teach Caithe a lesson. Caithe has a tendency to talk big about trusting each other and working together… until, that is, she’s the one that needs to do the trusting, in which case she reverts to being all sensitive and haring off on her own. The PC may have been looking to demonstrate that trust goes both ways – just as the team is weaker for not trusting Caithe and demanding that she hand over her weapons, Caithe herself is more vulnerable when she goes off on her own without at least the team knowing what she’s doing. How can the PC trust Caithe if Caithe doesn’t trust the PC?

All that said, I have a theory that the true purpose of Caithe’s egg-related Wyld Hunt was to make sure that neither the Pact Commander nor the egg was on the fleet when it went down.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Rhaegar.1203

Rhaegar.1203

Listen, we can argue all we want, but we would be justifying their actions, while no real, smooth characterization had been given in-game.

The simplest explanation, in my opinion, is that this all can be attributed to rushed content/weak writing/logic jumps, such as the MOrdremoth name coming out of nowhere and everybody was like “Sure, the dude from down the street, yeah”.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

I don’t think anyone is denying that it was bad writing to various degrees – just the degrees of which it is bad writing.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: dace.8019

dace.8019

Coming in late, but regarding banners (and possibly Warriors & Magic) I always found this concept art interesting.

It’s fairly clear in showing summoned banners falling from skyward into waiting hands.

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Posted by: Tuchanka.5148

Tuchanka.5148

Hello I have just a few questions regarding the Sylvari.

1.)Are Sylvari glowing naturally and do they have control about it, does their “glow” depend on their mood? Are Sylvari glowing if they are blushing?

2)How does a Sylvari become a Warden, and how do they teach them. We know about Tegwen. She was mentored by Trahearne and became a Warden to guard Hamlet of Annwen. She later met Carys and began mentoring her. Is this the usual way of becoming a Warden?

Thanks

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Posted by: Nero.8047

Nero.8047

Hello I have just a few questions regarding the Sylvari.

1.)Are Sylvari glowing naturally and do they have control about it, does their “glow” depend on their mood? Are Sylvari glowing if they are blushing?

2)How does a Sylvari become a Warden, and how do they teach them. We know about Tegwen. She was mentored by Trahearne and became a Warden to guard Hamlet of Annwen. She later met Carys and began mentoring her. Is this the usual way of becoming a Warden?

Thanks

A sylvari’s glow is bioluminescence As far as I’m aware the glow does not depend on mood and rather on the intake of light (and other nourishment) during the day, processing of energy and emitting this energy during the night as light, it is quite possible that Sylvari glow during the day as well but having it simply not be visible due to the lack of contrast. (enter a cave during the day and a Sylvari glows.)
this might help you out a bit more.

These are just my thoughts though. not too factual.

Paragon of the Seraphim Order [Ankh]
a small, casual Guild with a play as you want style.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Coming in late, but regarding banners (and possibly Warriors & Magic) I always found this concept art interesting.

It’s fairly clear in showing summoned banners falling from skyward into waiting hands.

Those banners are also brightly glowing even in the persons hand. IIRC, the banners ingame do not share that aspect.

It’s also the mist wars loading screen, so the mists tend to be weird.

Another aspect is that some loading screens show stuff not even ingame. Harathi hinterslands shows a series of castles or walls that doesn’t exist ingame. One map (I think Kessex hills originally?) showed a field/stream with a number of the statues of the gods, some huge. Which isn’t in the map either :P.

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Posted by: dace.8019

dace.8019

Those banners are also brightly glowing even in the persons hand. IIRC, the banners ingame do not share that aspect.

In the image, you can see that all the banners that you can identify are Battle Standards (the Warrior Elite banner). It has a number of flashy effects when it is cast, but most prominent is a glowing image on the ground beneath it.

The in-game skill reasonably reflects the art. In both cases the banner falls from the sky and have a similarly coloured glow/light-effect. It also glows in the hand when picked up.

This video has a number of casts of the Battle Standard, depicting the effect from several angles and ranges, and when carried.

(edited by dace.8019)

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

I have one Question and it has Bugged me for years.

What ever happened to Evennia?

Last we saw her was in Ascalon, trying to get help to fight the Mursaat/White Mantle. I’ve not been able to find anything thing out what happened to her after that.

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Posted by: szshou.2193

szshou.2193

I have a weird meta-ish question:

What is the explanation for how/why mana (energy in gw1) was removed? I realize that not having to manage mana makes the game more fun to play and gains a wider audience. But is there some sort of lore that can accompany that change in mechanic? For example: Was there some sort of magical enlightenment, most likely asuran in origin, that allowed Tyrians to access the “Eternal Alchemy” to gain power for spells rather than rely on the energy in their bodies?

[eN] midline rallybot

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Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I have a weird meta-ish question:

What is the explanation for how/why mana (energy in gw1) was removed? I realize that not having to manage mana makes the game more fun to play and gains a wider audience. But is there some sort of lore that can accompany that change in mechanic? For example: Was there some sort of magical enlightenment, most likely asuran in origin, that allowed Tyrians to access the “Eternal Alchemy” to gain power for spells rather than rely on the energy in their bodies?

Been a while but I do recall something about more ambient magic energy being available now.

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Posted by: BobbyStein

Previous

BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

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Are the Modus Scelerit Cancelled?

Not sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Are the Modus Scelerit Cancelled?

Not sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

I can for him. The Modus Scelris were series of events added with Halloween 2012. There was mention that they’d be a running plot, I think – or at least people were left with that impression. But nothing has happened to them since.

wouw’s asking if there’s any plans for them in the future, or if they were a one-release trick. Many folks are hoping they get expanded.

Heck, given the LW3 teasers, they could even become one of those groups vying for the magical power released by Mordy.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

Are the Modus Scelerit Cancelled?

Not sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

I can for him. The Modus Scelris were series of events added with Halloween 2012. There was mention that they’d be a running plot, I think – or at least people were left with that impression. But nothing has happened to them since.

wouw’s asking if there’s any plans for them in the future, or if they were a one-release trick. Many folks are hoping they get expanded.

Heck, given the LW3 teasers, they could even become one of those groups vying for the magical power released by Mordy.

Adding to that: Halloween 2012 introduced the idea of content delivery, without much explanation (aka there were things added to the game, without any hints).
There was a quote somewhere, that not enough people got the new content and thus it wasn’t expanded further for a long time.
Basicaly the new content came to early, while people were still experiencing the game for the first time.

This could be a reason why it wasn’t followed up.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

I have a lore question!

The last time I saw my BFF Riot Alice, she had made her way to prosperity. Shortly afterward, Mordremoth wrecked the place, and it remains wrecked by Mordremoth tentacles to this day. before that event happenned, she mentioned heading north. She was nowhere to be found in the silverwastes, so I’m assuming she changed her mind.

What became of Riot Alice? She’s not really the type to join the pact, and she’s too much of a self-starting-partially-redeemed-anti-hero to fall in with the current white mantle affiliated bandits.

I don’t see her having had reasons to head toward the jungle or the silverwastes, and breaking with her bandit contacts would likely make it pretty dangerous for her to backtrack in to kryta.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

I’ve never noticed that before, I too would love to know this.

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Posted by: BobbyStein

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BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

Are the Modus Scelerit Cancelled?

Not sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

I can for him. The Modus Scelris were series of events added with Halloween 2012. There was mention that they’d be a running plot, I think – or at least people were left with that impression. But nothing has happened to them since.

wouw’s asking if there’s any plans for them in the future, or if they were a one-release trick. Many folks are hoping they get expanded.

Heck, given the LW3 teasers, they could even become one of those groups vying for the magical power released by Mordy.

Adding to that: Halloween 2012 introduced the idea of content delivery, without much explanation (aka there were things added to the game, without any hints).
There was a quote somewhere, that not enough people got the new content and thus it wasn’t expanded further for a long time.
Basicaly the new content came to early, while people were still experiencing the game for the first time.

This could be a reason why it wasn’t followed up.

Disclaimer: I didn’t work on the Modus Sceleris content so I’m not sure what the long term plan was, originally. I do get the impression that the team that added it did so with intentions to develop it over time, but there was likely a change in direction (e.g. LW Season 1) that caused it to be shelved. Those folks probably got assigned to other projects, if memory serves me.

Would we ever use Modus Sceleris again? I think if we had a compelling reason we would, but they’re pretty far down the list (narratively speaking) because there are other stories we’d like to develop and groups we’d like to explore first.

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

Goodness. I played betas and headstart, I obsessively got into game every chance I had, I did all the events and achieves, and I don’t remember Modus Sceleris at all! Even reviewing them on the Wiki doesn’t ring any bells. I’ll have to check my achieves to see if I have any archived ones regarding MS.

As someone who has no head canon invested in MS at all, I’ll side with the decision to develop other stories instead. I’d still like Malyck’s loose end tied up in some way, even if it’s just in a blogged short story. Though it still seems possible for him and his Tree to become factors in the ongoing narrative even if the impact will be far different from what we might have seen as part of the HoT tale.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Would we ever use Modus Sceleris again? I think if we had a compelling reason we would, but they’re pretty far down the list (narratively speaking) because there are other stories we’d like to develop and groups we’d like to explore first.

I’m just gonna say that the Modus Sceleris sound like they’d be a good recurring “hired villains” group that various big bads might pay to harass the players while they go about their own plots.

A role usually filled by the Inquest – minus the hiring part. The Inquest can’t be involved in everything after all.

They could play no bigger roles than what the Inquest plays in Dry Top or Season 2 Episode 1.

Of course, other groups could play this role as well – and should. The important part is to keep using a variety of groups and individuals for the side content (whether it is in new maps, or a “distraction” or lead-in during story instance). It gets very tiresome when we deal with the same individual time and time again even though there are other alternatives (no wiki link, but remember “Your Herald” from the dungeons? Said he’d follow your progress… whatever happened to him and his warnings of ongoing happening?) that once were introduced.

I don’t think anyone’s asking for the Modus Sceleris to become some big bad on par to Scarlet Briar. Just for them to not be forgotten. And I could probably find a nice long list of groups that feel somewhat forgotten in favor to sticking to the same five or so major groups.

Goodness. I played betas and headstart, I obsessively got into game every chance I had, I did all the events and achieves, and I don’t remember Modus Sceleris at all! Even reviewing them on the Wiki doesn’t ring any bells. I’ll have to check my achieves to see if I have any archived ones regarding MS.

As someone who has no head canon invested in MS at all, I’ll side with the decision to develop other stories instead. I’d still like Malyck’s loose end tied up in some way, even if it’s just in a blogged short story. Though it still seems possible for him and his Tree to become factors in the ongoing narrative even if the impact will be far different from what we might have seen as part of the HoT tale.

Modus Sceleris had no achievements. Just 5 or so events.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

I got one big question: Where do we get a spacial discombobulator?

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Posted by: BobbyStein

Previous

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It gets very tiresome when we deal with the same individual time and time again even though there are other alternatives (no wiki link, but remember “Your Herald” from the dungeons? Said he’d follow your progress… whatever happened to him and his warnings of ongoing happening?) that once were introduced.

I think you need to balance how you use particular characters. I think it’s bad form to throw “one-offs” all over the place that are there for purely functional reasons, but have zero personality or reuse potential. In Ela’s case, she’s a natural fit for imparting a lot of supplementary info of current (and past) events, and since she was a (small) part of the Season 2 story there’s a bit more context. Granted, she doesn’t have much to say outside of factual info, so if we were to do anything else with her I’d hope we’d flesh out her personality some more. But I hear where you’re coming from.

Your Herald was mostly a functional creation from what I understand. The dungeon letters needed to come from someone, and since we had some technical constraints that made it difficult (if not impossible) to originate from multiple potential sources based on your character’s decisions a nameless character was introduced. It’s kind of like the Tyrian Explorers Society notes you get for map completion. I think both have the potential to be very interesting but there wasn’t much need to develop them beyond the initial implementation. Perhaps that will change in the future. No promises, though.

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Posted by: smitske.4912

smitske.4912

Hey all,

Thanks for your patience; I’ve been unable to keep up with this thread due to all the other stuff that’s going on in and around the studio.

We are working on a more reliable and comprehensive method of addressing lore questions, and I will keep you posted.

I do have one more reply to contribute in the short term—I asked for a specific question posed by smitske to be rephrased and it was, so I’m going to tackle that.

We are keeping track of the rest and will revisit the list of questions once we have a plan for exactly how; until then, watch this space for updates, and thanks again.

But on to smitske’s rephrased question:

Still not at liberty to discuss future story developments, but: I understand you see missed opportunities in HoT that could have advanced or resolved some of the big outstanding questions surrounding the sylvari race. HoT’s story (both in story instances and the open world) was conceived and designed with a tight focus on the urgent, PC-led response to Mordremoth destroying the Pact fleet. For example, we initially had plans to include Malyck, but ultimately his plotline fell outside that focus.

This tight focus, along with the precedent of not having detailed backgrounds for every profession in the core game, was also a factor in the decision to not present background lore for the new elite specializations. The elite specs did not all originate in the jungle during the relatively small window of time covered in HoT; exploring their origins would have meant tangential story threads that took place outside the jungle and outside the timeline of the events in HoT.

Thanks a lot for coming back to me! I was actually planning on bumping the thread to bring it back to live just when you posted.

I can understand you are not able to discuss further development, I just hope you wont try to ‘force’ Malyck etc in in an unnatural way now because people mentioned that, at this point I somewhat have the feeling that perhaps the right moment for that has passed, unless can you make it feel natural enough to bring him in in some way. I read a lot about how things have been scrapped because they did not fit the atmosphere of the ‘sense of urgency’ you wanted to bring over, but now at hindsight and looking at the opinions about it do you still stand behind this decision? From my point it seems that that was actually the whole problem with the story, a focus on urgency but not letting the story flow its natural course, leaving some plot holes. For example Malyck has been scrapped because it would derail us from the path you have chosen, but should he really derail us? I mean he could have been an enemy we met, but lore wise to me it makes no sense whatsoever with the knowledge I have now that there was no trace of him whatsoever. This ties perfectly together with another gripe I have, the 3 legendary commanders, we don’t know anything of them. Why not make one of them Malyck? Only one directions you could take. But anyway my point with that is that someone else said that originally all 3 should have been in the PS and eventually 2 got scrapped, again for the sense of urgency of the plot. To my view that plot idea was the one that was the real problem and should have been scrapped. I have no doubt a lot of other great ideas you guys might have had were scrapped in favor of that, things that we don’t even know about.

The thing is, to me with the original 8 profession is that they have lore within the universe before the start of GW2, they existed and were already there with some legacy from GW1. But the new ones came out of nowhere and what bugs me the most is we don’t see anyone else with those elite specs of the npc’s even in the HoT maps, with the exception of Marjory with a great sword, on the other hand Braham doesn’t even use the bow. You say they did not all originate in the jungle and indeed they don’t have to nor would it make sense, but I do not think that view holds to not put their lore in HoT. Before the HoT release I already brought forth an idea of having mentors that could be put in a story line. For chronomancers for example Anyse, reapers had Marjory, DH some quest to slay a great beast in the jungle with someone and so on. The argument brought forth against it is that it would not fit with the flow of the story, but the technology is there already (at least partially) to not make that an issue, the story journal. You could have just added another section for your class that we could do at our own leisure, independent of our progression on the main story line. I don’t really see how that would break the sense of urgency of the main story more than mastery gates put in place to stop us from progressing too fast. As a question for future expansions, if you are at liberty to talk about that of course, are you open to placing certain lore bits like this for coming elite specs, to give them a proper place lore wise in the GW2 world, or is it completely of the table? On one end it would not be very consistent to do so which I personally am not really a fan of, unless you place origin stories for the current set of elite specs in the game. On the other hand we do have a saying on Anet and consistency on reddit and I do think that making those origin stories would contribute greatly to GW2 and could bring some interesting lore perspectives. As well as give us more to do on expansions.

Anyway thanks for your time and I hope to read something soon about getting that more reliant way of interacting on lore.

Since the thread is active again, selfish bump :p
Also Bobby HoT set a bad precedent on fleshing (more like not ) out vanilla lore, LS3 luckily seems to go out a different direction though.

(edited by smitske.4912)