Guild Wars 2

Warrior – Watchknight
Clockwork Watchknight using spears. Humans using spear, cuz lake no longer here. That can be attempt for natural change of how can spears be used (from perspective of those who always used that kind underwater, but their evirnoment changed while weapon in their hand no, so they need to use it then they learned using on land).
Rytlock used pistol before change proffesion. (racial skill or not still used).
Samrog from petinent use spears. Probably new races enslaved somewhere in automatical city. He have heavy armor (rests of it). He was brainwashed/made to be kind of watcher who killed fleeing prisioners.
Guardian – Marshal
Logan Thackerey put in blighted pod. He felt different. New stat: condiprec/healingcon.
Vibre of jungle. Condi + heal + boons. Someone who stay behind, figure head. There could be enchantments working like venoms, that will have option to trait for boons and heal from runes.
Rev – Jailbreaker/Prisioner/Tribune/Punisher/Vanquisher/Envoy/Junundu/Undead
Its all up to rytlock who can have knowledge about future and avoid us, made by smordur to reclaim fort behind gate to crystal desert that fell to kralka or joko.
Necromancer – Soulspliter/Inquistor/Overseer/Lich
Skeletons, interest in reviving dead, spliting spirit into fragments inside vessels (live or things). Up to Marjory. Or Livia. Steal minions of other necro. It could go: boons to allies with hp cost.
Mesmer – Masquarade
Second life bar as white mantle mesmers. Have new type of clone: dopelganger, that works like pet, can lose hp, but always here. It can take form of caster/ally/enemy.
Elementalist – Blighter
Its up to Zoija therw into blightning pod. It can come with wards with massive condi aplication or elementals. There are those small that go to enemy and explode. Flying elemental throw mines. Elemental hands from centaur. Elemental earth spirte from Seis Burnheart. Fire tornados that move you along in many directions. Rain that posion from Matthias from salvation.
Thief – Shadow/Dragonwatcher/Exalted/Champion
Caithe and it can be support, on target ally use skills. Introduction to that type of skills.
Dragonwatcher with channel for energies from tarir and dragon (blue colors and gold/white).
Engineer – Commander/Golemancer/Shining Blade/Knight/Mecharider/Mechaknight
From canach main hand sword, commanding others, physical skills.
From taimi removed toolbelt and gain f1 transformation. Up to scruffy 2.0.
Using tech of others. Holograms. Scarlet stuff.
Ranger – Beasttamer
Two pets at once from manor also from noran.

Everyone could be flamebearer – spear for all.

Here are some of my ideas- I doubt ANet would ever consider some though, as some of them require mounts.

Warrior

Musketeer: Can attach a bayonet to their rifle. High flat damage, with some bleeds. Rage skill does plenty of bleeds- bayonet stab (or something along those lines). Increased damage to mounts if they were ever introduced.
Privateer: Can use pistol. Condi-based, a lot of bleeds. Combos well w/ sword. Pistol could also be part of Musketeer.
Cavalry: Can use spear on land, but only with a mount. Not a whole lot of DPS, but lots of CC. Combos well w/ shield.

Ele

Twister: Buff to air attunement. Quickness + Alacrity, but only to self.

Mesmer

Puppetmaster/Charade: Can temporarily take control of their opponent’s mind. Good control, but decent DPS.

Guardian:

Commandant: A lot like paragon. Split between DPS and control. Uses spear as a melee weapon, rather than using it at range. (Might have a throw-spear skill somewhere though) Lots of control/CCs.

Can’t think of anything else off the top of my head.

Considering that this is in the lore forum…

The biggest and most obvious ‘hole’ in the specialisations is probably a sword/shield or mace/shield engineer. That’s effectively what the Aetherblade Thumpers were, despite having heavy armour, but more importantly, Canach has been essentially an engineer with a sword since his second appearance. A Canach-based elite specialisation would probably be based around mines as their utility skills – which may annoy some people (they’re essentially traps…) but which could be given mechanics that distinguish them from other traps (for instance, they might have a relatively small auto-trigger radius, but be able to be triggered manually).

One potential source of specialisations from the lore is looking at Guild Wars 1 professions:

Monk: We’re probably never going to see a return of cloth-wearing monks, but a more healing-oriented elite spec for guardian might grow out of monk themes. Not sure what weapon they could have, though, although an offhand seems likely.

Assassin: Mostly included in thief, but the GW1 assassin had more overt magic than the thief does. An assassin elite specialisation could reflect this by having more magic-oriented skills, possibly including a focus offhand.

Ritualist: Could be made into a spellcasting specialisation for revenants (possibly channeling spirits in general rather than a specific legend) or a spirit-oriented specialisation for necromancers. Would probably use a scepter as a revenant specialisation, with a few possibilities as a necromancer.

Dervish: Revenant, guardian, and necromancer each have dervish-y aspects. A melee elementalist with sword or greatsword would probably fill it in.

Paragon: I don’t think ‘land spear’ is really likely to happen, but paragon could become a basis for a more support-oriented guardian, possibly with shortbow, possibly with warhorn, possibly with throwing axes. Skills could be a line of more powerful shouts with casting times, similar to the chants in GW1.

Outside of what was in GW1, there are a few other possible sources of inspiration:

Any other figure in GW history that can you can persuade yourself is legend material.

The Mordant Crescent may form the basis of a necromancer specialisation… or a specialisation for members of some other profession to pick up some death magic.

For mesmers, we’ve seen a lot of capabilities from NPC mesmers that PCs don’t have – clones as a second health bar (although arguably that could be an advanced continuum split) and illusions that act as summons. Some of these could be the basis of a new specialisation.

Okay, that’s me out for the time being for elite specialisations extracted from the lore, although there may well be (probably are) more that I’m not thinking of. Note that there are also others that I think might make good elite specialisations, but which currently lack a precedent in the lore as far as I know off the top of my head.

Ah! This subject!

I have two classes I’d like to see:

For Engineer, there are actually two:
Demolitionist – New weapon is Sword, and its skills are assorted explosives that apply buffs to allies and debuffs to enemies. We’ll say it’s Canach-based, and not the Demoknight from Team Fortress 2. It uses its sword to implant tiny subdermal explosives, that explode after a brief pause. He can also throw then detonate his sword.

Mechanic – Where the Scrapper was specialized in taking things apart with a massive hammer, the Mechanic is specialized in building and repairing things. New weapon is Mace, which can be used to repair friendly objects as well as smack people (Friendly turrets, gyros, mechanical minions, maybe some quest defense targets). Its skills would be mechanical minions and possibly even a vehicle like the Asura elite. Maybe we’ll finally be able to defend those poor Ash Legion tents in Ashford?

For the Warrior, I’d absolutely love to see “Captain” – a support-based spec with utility skills that create combo fields (Lets call them “Tactics”), and the new weapon would be Main Hand Pistol (Gives them a mainhand ranged weapon to allow for easier positioning and oversight of the battlefield, and it can be paired with off-hand weapons, and would easily go well with Sword for defense+conditions, Shield for defense, Warhorn for more support.) Lore-wise… Warriors of all types take up the role of Captain, whether they’re pirates or commanders on a battlefield. Whether leading the charge with a melee weapon in tow, or standing back surveying the battlefield with a sidearm, rifle, or longbow, they reshape the field of battle with keen eye and opportunism to help their team carry the day. Warmaster Gritblade would be a notable proto-Captain already in the game.

Thief
Bard/Minstrel, a support-based specialization that gets the Focus as a weapon.
The Minstrel is sort of like a Thief/Mesmer hybrid (Sort of like how Dragonhunter is a Guardian/Ranger cross). They have a focus and mantras, and their Initiative is modifed to a more irregular ‘cadence’, which gains and loses specific Initiative values on a pattern that can be modified by their Mantras (new utility). It doesn’t have quite the same burst potential as a core Thief, but it has far better sustained performance.

Please no Foci for thieves. Pretty please. I still have trouble accepting that a stick is supposed to do more damage than a stab directly to the heart. Go for GW1 sin inspired magic to your heart’s content, but not with a focus.

The Greyhawk.9107:

Please no Foci for thieves. Pretty please. I still have trouble accepting that a stick is supposed to do more damage than a stab directly to the heart. Go for GW1 sin inspired magic to your heart’s content, but not with a focus.

What would you propose as an alternative?

I should note that if a focus was to be employed as a thief weapon, I’d expect it to be used for spellcasting, not for thwacking people over the head. Dual skills would involve combining a spell with a physical strike, similar to how P/D and D/P dual skills combine a ranged and a melee attack.

I actually enjoy the fact that thieves whack people with staves instead of casting magic with them. they’re the only class that could pull off the ‘martial artist’ theme without introducing a new class overall. It fits it too, with thieves basically having a hidden tactic for everything (they have smoke bombs for crying out loud, the most basic ‘get away’ cliche, they should have a way of dealing with opponents if they’re caught weaponless, and the swirling staff helps that theme)

however i do feel that with the magic that thieves have and assassins had, there should be some sort of nod to their magical ability (and how awesome would thief-based magic be?)

Honestly? I’d like to see an off-hand sword. I’ll be the first to admit I’m no good at coming up with viable skills, but if a mesmer can use an off-hand sword to cast spells, couldn’t it also work for an assassin based thief? If I recall correctly there was supposed to be a link between Mesmerism and sin magic.
Regardless I actually do want to see more use of the Thief’s unique Dual Skill system.

If thief came in with an offhand sword and used it as a spellcasting focus, the thief players who’ve been demanding dual swords since release will riot. :P

Generally speaking, I think ArenaNet have been deliberately avoiding giving large offhand weapons (sword, mace, axe) to professions that can use a mainhand dagger, to avoid the silliness that could result from using a dagger as your primary weapon while awkwardly holding a bigger weapon in the other hand.

I think at least one profession will become a new pet training class – most likely Guardian, with Braham/Garm being the catalyst/story justification.

I also expect engineers to be the next healer class given how little they are played in higher end pve (the same reason rangers got the druid spec last expansion). Not sure the lore tie in, but a “medic” would make sense as an engineer elite.

draxynnic.3719:

If thief came in with an offhand sword and used it as a spellcasting focus, the thief players who’ve been demanding dual swords since release will riot. :P

Generally speaking, I think ArenaNet have been deliberately avoiding giving large offhand weapons (sword, mace, axe) to professions that can use a mainhand dagger, to avoid the silliness that could result from using a dagger as your primary weapon while awkwardly holding a bigger weapon in the other hand.

what if youre left handed? it would look normal then.. you’re saying all players HAVE to be right handed? and we already have things like tiny scepters amd gisnt shields together, it’s sorta alresdy like thay

Fenom.9457:

what if youre left handed? it would look normal then.. you’re saying all players HAVE to be right handed? and we already have things like tiny scepters amd gisnt shields together, it’s sorta alresdy like thay

Scepters and shields serve very different roles, though, and if our character was left-handed I would expect them to use the weapon in their left hand more than the right. That’s not how the Guild Wars 2 system works. What a D/S build would have is two weapons, both used for the same purpose, but one with much less reach and much less potential for damage… and then using the inferior weapon for at least three swings out of five. More than that, really, because the first three skills almost always have shorter cooldowns than the last two.

It could work, but for it to make any sense they’d need to sell it as a style that relies on getting up close, with the sword’s job being quick hobbling swipes if the enemy tries to open distance… offhand dagger has a somewhat similar skill already, but maybe the sword could be unique enough to justify it. Maybe skill four immobilizes instead of cripples, and skill five is themed after stabbing a fleeing foe in the back, dealing loads of damage against an immobilized or flanked enemy. (Or it could be themed around just keeping them in place, and do the damage to moving targets.) It wouldn’t be my first pick, though, and it’d still be a hard sell.

Fenom.9457:

what if youre left handed? it would look normal then.. you’re saying all players HAVE to be right handed? and we already have things like tiny scepters amd gisnt shields together, it’s sorta alresdy like thay

Unfortunately, its not the players who are wielding the weapons in the game, but the characters. All playable characters are right handed. Even if we get a scenario where a player can wield a sword in the offhand and a dagger in the mainhand, the characters right arm would be automatically swinging while the left hand only swings once every 20 secondsish.

I actualy agree that thieves and ranger should be able to wield a mainhand dagger and an offhand sword, no matter how ‘silly’ it may look, but specifically this argument is flawed.

Fenom.9457:

what if youre left handed? it would look normal then.. you’re saying all players HAVE to be right handed? and we already have things like tiny scepters amd gisnt shields together, it’s sorta alresdy like thay

Aaron’s pretty much covered it. The characters are assumed to be right-handed. It’d be great if you could have the option to reverse that, but that would require them to double the number of animations to make for little practical gain.

The bigger issue is that you end up with a situation where somebody is making the majority of their attacks with a dagger while they have a sword hanging awkwardly in their offhand that they might use once every ten seconds or so (or in the case of thieves, maybe use it three times in quick succession then wait for initiative to refill).

You could come up with fighting styles to justify that, but then you’re basically trying to come up with fighting styles that make it less ridiculous rather than anything that actually makes sense. For instance, the style Aaron is talking about? People who actually did that usually still had the dagger in their weaker hand… because once you’re in a grapple, having the dagger in your weaker hand is less of a handicap than trying to wield a sword in your weaker hand before you manage to get that close. (It can actually be an advantage in a grapple to have your weapon in your weaker hand, in fact, because then you can use your stronger hand for grabbing hold of your opponent.)

About the only time that a dagger mainhand, sword offhand would make any sense at all, I think, is when the sword is purely a spellcasting focus.

draxynnic.3719:

If thief came in with an offhand sword and used it as a spellcasting focus, the thief players who’ve been demanding dual swords since release will riot. :P

As one of the people that wanted said offhand sword, I’d be quite happy. Not sure why you think people would “riot”.

Going by my previous example of mesmers using the offhand sword mostly for spell casting, I think it’d work pretty well for a sin/caster thief (anyone got a better name for this?). So “spells” instead of melee attacks for the most part.
I do think you guys are getting a little hung up on how “silly” a dagger main hand with sword off hand might look. Initially I found the idea of shooting magic laser beams out of a greatsword to be incredibly lame. I got over it. Plus, the main hand dagger is only one of three options, the other two weapons aren’t going to be an issue imo. In the end, an off hand sword just fits better thematically than a focus.
On another note

I think at least one profession will become a new pet training class – most likely Guardian, with Braham/Garm being the catalyst/story justification.

I also expect engineers to be the next healer class given how little they are played in higher end pve (the same reason rangers got the druid spec last expansion). Not sure the lore tie in, but a “medic” would make sense as an engineer elite.

I’m inclined to disagree on both points. For the latter, Engineers already ARE medics, they have multiple ally healing abilities. Maybe they aren’t as strong as druids, but that kind of thing is subject to change as skills get buffed and nerfed.
As for guardians…unlikely. For one thing, Garm has been sticking with Rox so far, not Braham (iirc). So no direct foreshadowing within the lore as of yet. But more importantly, I find unlikely that Anet will give Guardians a second Ranger based elite specialization, and honestly even the idea is a fair bit perturbing as well. You’d effectively replace regular rangers with a heavy armored type of ranger that has all these party buffing abilities. Also, we’re talking about a class mechanic, not just a weapon skill set or a type of skills like traps. These are supposed to remain mostly unique to their respective class. While almost all of the classes have summons or “pets” of some kind (including the ones guardians all ready have) animal companions should remain something exclusive to rangers.

I would personally like to see a ranger spec that folds in the pet damage (i.e. no pet), creating a medium weight, skirmishing kind of light warrior.

The Greyhawk.9107:

I’m inclined to disagree on both points. For the latter, Engineers already ARE medics, they have multiple ally healing abilities. Maybe they aren’t as strong as druids, but that kind of thing is subject to change as skills get buffed and nerfed.
As for guardians…unlikely. For one thing, Garm has been sticking with Rox so far, not Braham (iirc). So no direct foreshadowing within the lore as of yet. But more importantly, I find unlikely that Anet will give Guardians a second Ranger based elite specialization, and honestly even the idea is a fair bit perturbing as well. You’d effectively replace regular rangers with a heavy armored type of ranger that has all these party buffing abilities. Also, we’re talking about a class mechanic, not just a weapon skill set or a type of skills like traps. These are supposed to remain mostly unique to their respective class. While almost all of the classes have summons or “pets” of some kind (including the ones guardians all ready have) animal companions should remain something exclusive to rangers.

Youre probably right. My track record on these kind of things isnt very good.

(slight spoiler)

However, to the point about Garm. At the end of the Bitterfrost story arc, Braham says “come on Garm, let’s go” or something to that effect and the two leave together to head to Hoelbrak.

that said, again – Im probably wrong.

Blaeys.3102:

The Greyhawk.9107:

I’m inclined to disagree on both points. For the latter, Engineers already ARE medics, they have multiple ally healing abilities. Maybe they aren’t as strong as druids, but that kind of thing is subject to change as skills get buffed and nerfed.
As for guardians…unlikely. For one thing, Garm has been sticking with Rox so far, not Braham (iirc). So no direct foreshadowing within the lore as of yet. But more importantly, I find unlikely that Anet will give Guardians a second Ranger based elite specialization, and honestly even the idea is a fair bit perturbing as well. You’d effectively replace regular rangers with a heavy armored type of ranger that has all these party buffing abilities. Also, we’re talking about a class mechanic, not just a weapon skill set or a type of skills like traps. These are supposed to remain mostly unique to their respective class. While almost all of the classes have summons or “pets” of some kind (including the ones guardians all ready have) animal companions should remain something exclusive to rangers.

Youre probably right. My track record on these kind of things isnt very good.

(slight spoiler)

However, to the point about Garm. At the end of the Bitterfrost story arc, Braham says “come on Garm, let’s go” or something to that effect and the two leave together to head to Hoelbrak.

that said, again – Im probably wrong.

Hmm, don’t remember that line, guess I’d have to go over that episode again.

Anyway – I hope that next time around, Rox decides to stop playing around with primitive slingshots and picks up a real weapon, introducing the Pathfinder.

Pathfinders are Rangers that use their connection to nature, guerilla tactics, and a technological edge as advance scouts for the Charr legions (Though the other races would adapt the same strategy), finding paths for the main host and clearing out light and moderate resistance along it.

Every Pathfinder carries a kit that can be accessed at almost any time, and the kit provides means for temporary stealth, a tincture distilled from Maguuma’s mushrooms (Granting swiftness and Alacrity, with the duration and cooldown enabling permanent swiftness as long as it’s maintained), a signal flare (Applies Burning on immediate contact, and Revealed in an area), and a great big bomb.

Their weapon would be the Rifle. There are many like it, but this one is theirs. The basic attack is a tight-spread shotgun blast that is devastating at close ranges, but still mildly effective out to long range. They can also channel the spirits of certain animals (Much as they can with a Greatsword) – by channeling a Tiger’s roar, they can unleash a powerful, weakening blast from the muzzle of their gun (Point-Blank Blast Finisher that deals damage and applies weakness), and by channeling the eyes of the eagle, they can fire off a long-range, powerful vulnerability-inducing shot.

… I overthink everything, and have too many ideas.

I personally feel that rangers don’t have a place to use rifles or pistols of any kind (with the possible exception of sylvari grown rifles and pistols like the verdent weapon set)

This is because of their connection to nature. They aren’t mere hunters, they are at one with nature as a whole, and as such would be more inclined to use more ‘natural’ weapons. While swords, axes and daggers aren’t ‘natural’, they are used in ways that reflect aspects of nature. Rifles and pistols are the very farthest form of ‘natural’ of any weapon set (apart from verdant weapons and other weapon sets like it).

Now, obviously, there are two huge counters and a third minor counter to the above argument:

The next elite spec can totally add more lore exactly as Sartharina mentioned, having a subset of rangers turn into hunters (which i’d disagree with but if they implement it, meh, not much I can do about it)

The use of any weapon can be seen as unnatural because, well, we don’t grow weapons out of our nails (ignoring sylvari). While a point, I still feel that guns should not be a part of a ranger’s set.

The minor point is the above mentioned sylvari weapon sets. Cause really, it’s kind of a shame that sylvari rifles and pistols go ‘bang’ instead of something more natural.

I won’t stop other people from enjoying rangers with rifles (hell i’d probably get a verdant rifle myself for my ranger), but it’s not something that i really agree with.

I think that’s where the elite specialisation system really shines. The core weaponsets are more nature-focused, but a pistol or rifle could well suit a ranger that uses a bit more technology than most. The price is that they can’t then also take an elite specialisation that is more nature magic focused like druid.

That does mean, though, that I would probably see a rifle ranger as being more of a kind of ranger/engineer with gadget-themed skills rather than doubling down on the nature magic, though.

What about a WoW hunter style theme though? they don’t use nature themed magic , but their attacks are still somewhat magical (one of their main skills is ‘arcane shot’). With the similar themes between elementalists and rangers, it’s not too much of a stretch to include more arcane themed skills. (Also the Legion artifact for beastmaster spec is a lightning rifle, so maybe something along that route too?)

No idea what utilities could be though, so you’re probably right about the ranger/engineer style of using rifles or pistols with gadgets.

(I know there’s some sort of forum taboo for mentioning WoW and other MMOs for inspiration, but, really, WoW hunters are the only thing that I can think of that somewhat mirror what a GW2 ranger with a rifle/pistol would be like)

castlemanic.3198:

I personally feel that rangers don’t have a place to use rifles or pistols of any kind (with the possible exception of sylvari grown rifles and pistols like the verdent weapon set)

This is because of their connection to nature. They aren’t mere hunters, they are at one with nature as a whole, and as such would be more inclined to use more ‘natural’ weapons. While swords, axes and daggers aren’t ‘natural’, they are used in ways that reflect aspects of nature. Rifles and pistols are the very farthest form of ‘natural’ of any weapon set (apart from verdant weapons and other weapon sets like it).

Now, obviously, there are two huge counters and a third minor counter to the above argument:

The next elite spec can totally add more lore exactly as Sartharina mentioned, having a subset of rangers turn into hunters (which i’d disagree with but if they implement it, meh, not much I can do about it)

The use of any weapon can be seen as unnatural because, well, we don’t grow weapons out of our nails (ignoring sylvari). While a point, I still feel that guns should not be a part of a ranger’s set.

The minor point is the above mentioned sylvari weapon sets. Cause really, it’s kind of a shame that sylvari rifles and pistols go ‘bang’ instead of something more natural.

I won’t stop other people from enjoying rangers with rifles (hell i’d probably get a verdant rifle myself for my ranger), but it’s not something that i really agree with.

The “King of The Wild Frontier” used a rifle. You cant get any more Ranger than that.

Sartharina.3542:

The “King of The Wild Frontier” used a rifle. You cant get any more Ranger than that.

That’s a real life example. We’re talking about a fantasy video game where rangers (not the druid elite spec) use nature magic.

Here’s a few overt examples:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Muddy_Terrain
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Entangle
the entire spirit line
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22We_Heal_As_One!%22
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Troll_Unguent

and potentially
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Trap
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Trap

That’s a lot of nature magic and attunement to natural elements.

THEN there’s all the animal themed abilities:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Maul_
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hornet_Sting
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Serpent's_Strike
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dart
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Man_O'_War

THEN you get the elite spec that rangers can access, which is ALL nature magic.

So yeah, it’s pretty clear that this fantasy version of the ranger archetype would have issues with rifles, as something like a rifle could be seen as ‘unnatural’.

This raises an interesting question…

How do we know that the spirits of nature give a flying feline what weapons rangers use?

Maybe they do.

Maybe rangers assume they do, but never asked.

Maybe some do, and other don’t.

Maybe most rangers eschew firearms for purely practical reasons – bows are quieter, and it’s easier to secure more ammunition for a bow while out in the wild than for a firearm.

We do know that the ranger partly eschews technology in favour of nature magic, but how far does this go? Is it possible to combine technology with the nature magic of the core ranger, but not with more advanced nature magic like that of the druid?

Personally, though, I’d be inclined to keep any hypothetical ranger rifle skills lacking in overt magic, like ranger longbow and shortbow now. An elemental rifle specialisation probably should go to the elementalist.

I don’t think I’ve ever thought that the idea of rifles and pistols being seen as ‘unnatural’ would ever come from the spirits. That’s actually an interesting point.

If there is a taboo against firearms, where does it come from?

And yeah, I figured it would be a stretch to put ranger magic in rifles, especially if it were to mimic elementalist magic.

Still, I would love to see some harmony between verdant rifles and pistols and what classes actually do with them.

castlemanic.3198:

Sartharina.3542:

The “King of The Wild Frontier” used a rifle. You cant get any more Ranger than that.

So yeah, it’s pretty clear that this fantasy version of the ranger archetype would have issues with rifles, as something like a rifle could be seen as ‘unnatural’.

I see where you are coming from, and I agree that Rangers are definitely nature based. But I don’t agree that the rifle automatically is disqualified as unnatural. You have made a great case as to why that could be true, but I could easily picture nature based rangers using rifles and not feeling out of place with build theme. A lot of it would depend on the lore that builds out the new potential elite.

Rifles aren’t any less unnatural than greatswords, and as noted, my idea for the implementation of Ranger Rifle embraces the animal spirits in their attacks.

Sartharina.3542:

Rifles aren’t any less unnatural than greatswords, and as noted, my idea for the implementation of Ranger Rifle embraces the animal spirits in their attacks.

Rifles are a LOT less natural, as greatswords or any melee weapon you atleast have to use your own strength, reflexes and agility to survive a fight, while bows and arrows (mostly) rely on natural materials and STILL require natural strength, as you have to pull back the bowstring, which is tougher than most people would think. Rifles on the other hand use black powder, creating minature explosions (that’s how every bullet in existence, whether fantasy or real, is propelled) and firing bullets at unnatural speeds unattainable by even the most powerful of bows, and only need the strength of a single finger using mild strength to pull on the trigger.

So yes, rifles are more unnatural than any other weapon, with the exception of pistols as they both rely on the same type of design. That doesn’t mean rifles aren’t used in hunting, as clearly they are used by many in real life (whether they are used in GW2 for the purposes of hunting is something I personally don’t know about, someone else might have that info).

As Drax mentioned above, we don’t exactly know where the non-use of rifles and pistols comes from, or even if there is some sort of taboo against it’s use, but there are some logical reasons for why a rifle would be seen as unnatural compared to other weapons.

(That doesn’t mean that rifles can’t be used by a ranger in the future by some elite spec.)

Now, onto another topic, I’ve been kinda inclined to wonder if we’ll ever see the emergence of a toxic alliance style mesmer, who combines chaos magic with nature magic to induce hallucinations and other wild things that could arise from their combination. I know the reason why it was okay for the toxic alliance to use it was because of the Sylvari’s natural connection with nature, and them adding chaos magic from mesmer teachings and combining the two, but would it be possible for, say, a charr to use such magic? Asura? Humans could get away with it if they were attuned enough to Melandru, but that’s a pretty huge stretch at it’s best, and Norn kinda have attunement with the Spirits of the Wild, which could be some sort of gateway to it, if nothing else other than stretching ‘animal’ to ‘nature’ in what it encompasses.

I dunno, I’d love to see it as an option for mesmers.

It depends a lot on what exactly went into that ‘toxic’ part. The implication was Nightmare plant shaping, which would be a stretch for non-sylvari, and more of a ranger thing; krait poison magic, which is derived pretty directly from their necromancers; and quite possibly Mordremoth’s influence, which would be flat-out unavailable.

It’s not impossible, but with that mix it’d be quite a lot to pack into a mesmer. I’d think it more likely to see that sort of thing in a necromancer specialization, with phantasms as the utilities or on the weapon (or maybe just have it alter the minion skills through its minor traits).

On rifles: there’s also the element that firearms typically have more complex engineering than a sword or bow. Perhaps not for early firearms which were simple tubes against which you held a burning match to the powder to set them off, but as soon as you progress to a matchlock (let alone a wheel-lock or a flintlock) then you move to increasingly complicated triggering mechanisms. And some of the stuff in the game is getting pretty modern or even technomagically postmodern.

Combined with castlemanic’s point – that firearms rely on chemical propellant (or, in some cases, technomagic) rather then the user’s natural strength – and the fact that bows, swords, and so on are easier to keep using out in the wilds without having to return to civilisation and restock, and using a firearm can be seen as taking the first step towards becoming an industrialised society that seeks to control nature rather than being in harmony with it. We see that in Tyria with the charr – their use of firearms was the first step towards an industrial revolution.

In truth, there is a continuum from ‘naked hunter-gatherer with no artificially created tools’ to ‘paved paradise and put up a parking lot’. On the other hand, any reasonable nature spirit would probably acknowledge that the first option just isn’t viable for most sapient beings (charr might get away with it…), so they have to draw a line somewhere. Use of firearms is a reasonable place to draw it, for the reasons discussed above – reliance on an external power source, more reliance on intricate engineering, and less independence from towns and cities.

An elementalist who fires mystical elemental bullets from a rifle would be pretty funky =p