Guild Wars 2

Who’s the leader of Ebonhawke? Do they still consider themselves Ascalonians?
Do you all think it likely that the stronghold will be annexed by Queen Jennah?

Where are all the houses? Neither Divinty’s Reach, Ebonhawke, nor Lion’s Arch look like they have enough residential spaces for even the number of people you see wandering the streets, much less entire families related to those people.

Speaking of Lion’s Arch, won’t Kryta want it back at some point?

Commander/Duke Wade Samuelsson. He leads the Ebon Vanguard and is the Duke of Ebonhawke.

Yes, they do.

No, in fact if you do the events and hearts in Fields of Ruin and southern Blazeridge Steppes, the treaty is giving Ascalonians more land. Some have theorized that Smodur will eventually give them the land between the Dragonbrand and the Blazeridge Mountains in the area.

Like the entire game, it is not built to scale. Otherwise you’d be spending hours running from one end of DR to the other. There are hundreds of houses in DR and Ebonhawke all the same, plenty to house a city’s worth of population if you consider that the entire map is downscaled for gameplay enjoyability.

No, if you read Sea of Sorrows you’d know that the royal family have officially declared Lion’s Arch as separate. And we know Jennah isn’t interested in starting up rivalries with them, given that she’s established treaties and alliances with them.

Thanks for the quick replies!

As for scale, granted, but even within those considerations, I expected to see a bit more in the way of housing. shrug No worries. I get what you mean. No one wants to spend three hours trudging through the slums just to get to the gate.

On the last point, I’ve read on the wiki that Jennah is regarded as somewhat weak. So my question wasn’t specifically about her, but more everyone else—witness the separatists in Ebonhawke who are upset that Jennah’s sent the Seraph (in the form of the Fallen Angels). That is, there’s always political opposition, people who think that the kingdom/nation’s on the wrong course, that things were better in the good ol’ days, that the kingdom/country/etc. would be so much better if only ______ were in charge instead of the current ruler….

Jennah’s egalitarianism is causing friction with the nobles. What do those who support Cadaceus, or others opposed to Jennah, think about Lion’s Arch as a free city? What do the peasants and yeomen think? They seem to generally support Jennah; does that outweigh nationalism? Do they regard her appeasement of Lion’s Arch as betrayal? Does it make them wonder why /they/ need a royal family, if Lion’s Arch can be independent?

All of this grew out of wondering where I’d like my toons to live, btw. It’s cool that the Guild Wars world is detailed enough to motivate this much interest. It’s got a lot of background/depth/story for a video game. I like it.

Jennah is regarded as weak by the norn because she doesn’t rule with an iron fist. She doesn’t start a civil war (what would no doubt happen) by ousting the Ministers who are trying to dethrone her (Caudecus and co.).

She, however, is not weak – neither as ruler nor as an individual. Rather than the open conflict that the individualistic norn would prefer, Jennah uses the same tools as her enemies: subterfuge.

There are Ascalonians who don’t like her influencing them but that’s largely a disgruntled few. And the Krytans vying against Kryta care too little about spreading the nation as they are actively working with the bandits, White Mantle, and centaurs while ignoring the threat of the Elder Dragons.

If Caudecus and co (whom are not as much of a majority as you make them out to be) are so willing to give up lands to centaurs and sell their citizens into slavery via proxy or bandits, I doubt they care so much for LA.

The question of Ascalon’s sovereignty is actually an interesting one. Formally, Queen Jennah IS the de jure ruler of Ebonhawke – one of her titles is Regent of Ebonhawke/Ascalon (I forget which it is). However, since it is “Regent” and not “Queen Regent”, that indicates an acknowledgement that Ebonhawke remains a seperate jurisdiction from Kryta, and that Jennah is only ruling on behalf of the true monarch of Ascalon, who is expected to take charge when it is suitable to do so.

However, this does seem to be a bit of a legal fiction, since regencies are usually only for the childhood of the monarch and Wade Sammuelsson claims to have Ascalonian royal blood and is probably older than Queen Jennah. The regency arrangement seems to be a compromise that allows Ebonhawke to unambiguously fall under Kryta’s protection, but which maintains the option for it to resume independence when it is a suitable time to do so.

Regarding Lion’s Arch: If you look at the wording of the declaration, its arguable that it no longer applies. Edain’s edict granting independence has two conditions: “so long as it continues to fight against the threat of Orr” and to be Kryta’s “friend in peace and her ally in time of need.” Arguably, Lion’s Arch broke the second when it made a seperate peace with the centaurs (it’s one thing that I think Magnus was being hypocritical over about the lack of Krytan help during Scarlet’s invasion: the terms of the edict probably does not oblige Lion’s Arch to do anything in Ebonhawke, but watching as an invading force pushes to the gates of Divinity’s Reach is not being an ally in time of need), while the first may no longer be relevant at all, although in principle it still counts as long as there are surviving Risen and the Lionguard is participating in fighting them.

However, there’s legal technicalities and political reality. In Edain’s time, it’s likely that nobody else would have batted an eyelid if Kryta had retaken Lion’s Arch by force. Nowadays, Lion’s Arch has been established as a city-state in its own right, and a seizure of Lion’s Arch would be seen by other nations as a violent takeover of a friendly independent state rather than an operation in ejecting piratical squatters. I’m sure there are some in Kryta that dream of retaking Lion’s Arch (even Jennah herself might entertain the thought of Lion’s Arch someday rejoining the fold), but to do so at this time would really cost more than it’s worth.

When it comes to residential space: GW2 does a lot better at at least giving the impression of a suitable amount of residential space than anything in Tyria or Elona did in GW1. :P That said, the new Lion’s Arch does seem to fall short in that area: the only areas that appear to be zones for residential purposes are Commodore’s Quarter, the Western Ward, and maybe the walls on the north side of the harbour. Most other cities appear to at least have a significant majority of their space zoned for residential (DR is five out of seven districts, for instance, and Rata Sum has a lot of space within the cube).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jennah is regarded as weak by the norn because she doesn’t rule with an iron fist. She doesn’t start a civil war (what would no doubt happen) by ousting the Ministers who are trying to dethrone her (Caudecus and co.).

She, however, is not weak – neither as ruler nor as an individual. Rather than the open conflict that the individualistic norn would prefer, Jennah uses the same tools as her enemies: subterfuge.

There are Ascalonians who don’t like her influencing them but that’s largely a disgruntled few. And the Krytans vying against Kryta care too little about spreading the nation as they are actively working with the bandits, White Mantle, and centaurs while ignoring the threat of the Elder Dragons.

If Caudecus and co (whom are not as much of a majority as you make them out to be) are so willing to give up lands to centaurs and sell their citizens into slavery via proxy or bandits, I doubt they care so much for LA.

Thanks for the clarifications. I’m not trying to argue a particular position, for what it’s worth, just seeking answers. I’m still very new to the lore, and don’t really grasp a lot of it yet. Apologies if that was unclear.

Also—do we know if there are colleges/universities, at least in, say, Divinity’s Reach? It certainly seems large enough to support them. I see, in game, a Durmand Priory library, but that’s not really the same thing….

None ever get mentioned or named, really, but we do know that humans do have communal teaching methods. It’s just never actually called “school” or “college” afaik.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jennah is regarded as weak by the norn because she doesn’t rule with an iron fist.

I’ve always found this statement, which iirc originated with the Movement, to be very strange and completely out of character for the norn. The norn are supposed to be an extremely individualistic culture that generally does not have sovereign leaders the way races like humans and charr do. Of course they do have people that they choose to follow, and Knut does effectively control Hoelbrak, but overall they have no real governing body. So why the hell do they care how Jennah rules Kryta? No norn would let themselves be ruled “with an iron fist” by anyone else. Except for the Sons of Svanir, but they’re insane so they don’t count.
I honestly don’t think Arenanet though that one through very well initially. Its also something I don’t think I’ve ever seen expressed ingame, so I question whether it even still canon.

I think you’re looking at it the wrong way.

Firstly, just because they have no centralized government doesn’t mean they don’t have views what makes a good leader – after all, they do have leaders, be it leaders of hunting parties or of homesteads.

Secondly, they’re judging Jennah for her individual actions and not judge her for the actions and well-being of Kryta as a whole – as others, like many humans, asura, and charr, would.

Humans, charr, asura would call Jennah a bad leader when the human settlement in Kessex Hills gets attacked by surprise. Norn would call Jennah a bad leader when she doesn’t retaliate against the attackers.

Humans, charr and asura would call Jennah a bad leader when a minister is defamed. Norn would call that minister a bad person when he gets defamed.

To me, that makes perfect sense.

Perhaps me saying “rule with an iron fist” led to confusion. What the norn look down on Jennah for is not removing her enemies (what many non-norn would call ruling with an iron first – when one forcibly removes all opposition to their own regime).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think you’re looking at it the wrong way.

Firstly, just because they have no centralized government doesn’t mean they don’t have views what makes a good leader – after all, they do have leaders, be it leaders of hunting parties or of homesteads.

Secondly, they’re judging Jennah for her individual actions and not judge her for the actions and well-being of Kryta as a whole – as others, like many humans, asura, and charr, would.

Humans, charr, asura would call Jennah a bad leader when the human settlement in Kessex Hills gets attacked by surprise. Norn would call Jennah a bad leader when she doesn’t retaliate against the attackers.

Humans, charr and asura would call Jennah a bad leader when a minister is defamed. Norn would call that minister a bad person when he gets defamed.

To me, that makes perfect sense.

Perhaps me saying “rule with an iron fist” led to confusion. What the norn look down on Jennah for is not removing her enemies (what many non-norn would call ruling with an iron first – when one forcibly removes all opposition to their own regime).

So, Norn is to Klingon as Jennah is to Federation? :-)

I think the Charr are closer to the Klingons. I mean the Charr always harp on about how they killed their gods and the creation myth of the Klingons is about the first couple of Klingons being created by their gods and then killing them, so they can rule over Qo’nos.