Guild Wars 2

Could someone please give me a lore recap on the mad king and all his activities during halloween in guild wars 1? I’ve never played guild wars but i’m really interested in the lore.

Do what I just did.. go to the Guild Wars 1 Wiki.. tons of info there.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

That’ll give you about as much background as we know about him in the first paragraph.

You mean first five paragraphs (that is, everything above the table of contents).

Also he likes to kill players during his apperance. Sometimes because you did something wrong, or did nothing at all, sometimes because you did something right and sometimes just because.

This usually freaks out a few people each year, but it’s even less of an issue that dying in GW usually is.

Short answer is that he was an ancient king of Kryta, totally mad and destructive in his lifetime (think a more light-hearted Caligula or Nero). After his death he became a figure of some note in the Underworld, and once a year when the boundaries between that world and ours are thin, he liked to come and party in Lion’s Arch. He expected everyone to treat him as mighty and awesome royalty, of course, and do everything in their power to please him.

For the full details though, definitely consult the GW1 wiki. Oh, and his most noteworthy attribute when he visited Lion’s Arch… was his terrible jokes. Except you had to laugh at them, or you died :P

And sometimes if you laughed you also died, if it made him laugh in return :P

It’s been more than two centuries since he was last seen but I recently did some digging around in the Priory Archives and discovered the following information…whatever you do, don’t mention tengu, harpies, or ettins to Mad King Thorn. And don’t bring up termites either. He won’t like that…

Thank you all for the informatiom, I’m now even more excited for Halloween!

I’m very curious in how this “human” holiday is going to be celebrated by the other races. Just doesn’t make sense with what we know.

Considering it comes when the barriers between worlds are at their weakest….some might embrace it. Others fear it like the Affliction. Then there are those who could care less either way and go about their daily lives as if nothing has changed for them. Rumors of King Thorn’s insanity persist even as he has remained seemingly dormant for 250 years. I suspect it has become a multi-racial holiday in Lion’s Arch. The humans celebrate it almost religiously. The norn might view it as the one day when the walls are weakened enough that Raven allows communication with the dead. The asura might view it as an opportunity to test the dynamic nature of the Eternal Alchemy and the sylvari will embrace it without a full understanding of what the holiday is all about. The charr might even ignore it simply because it’s a celebration for a ghostly human king or be reminded of the Sorcerer-King Adelbern. There’s no telling how people will react. Besides, in his absence, the holiday may have simply become a cultural celebration with no real significance to any one race.

I can actually see the all five races getting involved if only because LA is not strictly speaking a ‘human’ city. It’s got occupants from all five Races, and LA has historically been the center of Halloween and the Mad King’s antics. If the tradition of Halloween continued in Lion’s Arch I can definitely see all 5 races taking part.

The Charr have already demonstrated with Meatoberfest that they’re capable of throwing a party and the Norn I think set the for Party Hard. As mentioned above, the Asura will no doubt be trying to run tests on the Mad King even as the Sylvari just try to learn everything they can about it. It’ll actually be one of the few moments when they can see ‘Human legend’ unfold. Up until now the Jury’s been out on the Gods, but this could be a visual display of some of the Human Lore standing up to the test of time.

All around, I’m excited. It’s the Mad King, it’s a time to test your skill in Rock, Paper, Scissors and Simon Says!

Yeah, Mad King Thorn traditionally returned to Lion’s Arch each year – I don’t imagine he’ll change that habit, even if it is now full of strange non-human residents and isn’t technically part of Kryta!

LA is sure to become the centre of a lot, if not all, of the festivals since it’s the central hub. Although I’d love to see racial festivals one day, something for each race that’s not necessarily tied to a real world holiday.

All you need to know is that mad king is bloody awesome!

…oh, i don´t really have anything to add to what´s already been said.

“Something wicked this way comes, lock the doors as the Mad King comes.” – Clord

Mad King and Palawa Joko are rivals. Would not be surprised of the lore reason for the disappearance of the Mad King thorn has to do with being trapped somewhere else at the time being.

Not to toot my own horn and such. And mainly I just did compiling of stuff off of Wiki, but we have a thread here going into it. I think I have covered most of the bases (with a few corrections from Konig)

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/71945-the-mad-king-lore-and-such/

So the Halloween event states on it that King thorn was killed 500 years ago which is the year 825 nothing wrong with that except. In the priory a book said he ruled around the year 300. No mortal human has lived more then around 160 years. The 160 is an estimate not a fact

Mike Winters.6871:

So the Halloween event states on it that King thorn was killed 500 years ago which is the year 825 nothing wrong with that except. In the priory a book said he ruled around the year 300. No mortal human has lived more then around 160 years. The 160 is an estimate not a fact

Actually the book says nothing about Thorn being around in 300 AE. That date refers to the first battles, not King Thorn’s reign.

“The first documented human-centaur battles occurred in 300 A.E. when human settlements began spreading from the fertile Krytan valley into the Shivrpeaks.”

While the book does mention Thorn, it gives no inditcation of when he ruled Kryta.

“Early in his reign, Krytan King Thorn proposed a treaty to the centauran tribes, but the centaurs rejected its terms as unfavorable.”

Even if he didn’t rule is the year 300 they knew about him in that year. Maybe it is the father or grandfather of Mad King Thorn since it only says King Thorn

Where do you see that they knew of him?

I agree with Asgard, if that’s all the book says, then it could just be a book about centaur stuff. We know Thorn was trying to make a centaur treaty, but humans have been fighting them for like…ever.
We had a discussion last night about Thorn, and the concensus seems to be that he was around in 830-850 somewhere, if you look at Palawa Joko based dates
And as a last reminder, 500 years is an approximation, just as the ‘250 years after GW1’ is an approximation

Even if the beginning of the human – centauran war and the proposal of the treaty (I bet it was “You can kiss Gum Drops, my Noble Steed as many times as you want, horses.” – King Thorn) are indeed 500-something years apart from each other (in which case, the writers did an awful job by intorducing two entirely separate dates in the same entry), there are still several major to severe issues with establishing Thorn’s rule in the 8th century. Let’s see:

• “The Mad King’s reign will be upon us soon. Rejoice in the return of the greatest king of ancient Kryta! The hearts of the creatures of this land should belong to this long-forgotten king, so to celebrate his return, you will gather them for him.” – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Horseman_Malfein

Says the very Horseman of Thorn. I wouldn’t call the 8th century Kryta ancient, and I doubt people could forget such a brutal tyrant as Thorn in ~200 years (and the horseman himself would be executed in the most painful way possible if he claimed that his liege was long-forgotten… after 200 years).

• Timeline: Kryta was established as a colony of Elona in 300 AE, but 58 years later it gained independence. We don’t know whether it seceded peacefully or through war, the fact that it did must have created a tension between the two nations for some time. Thing is, there has been a war between Elona and Kryta in Thorn’s time:

“The Mad King shall return to Elona shortly. I do not believe he bears a grudge against the Elonian people for what happened to his bride all those years ago, nor the decades long war that followed.” – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Horseman_Jaysin

There’s no other mention of a war between the two nations ever again, especially not in the timeframe that was given in that introducory. It’s also worth mentioning that Elona was under siege by Palawa Joko even then, meaning that it’s doubtful Elona was fighting the Krytans as well… (King Sahlahjar of Sahlahja (a city in the Desolation) and his kingdom fell prey to him somewhere around 757 AE – when Joko finished his Bone Palace.)

• Palawa Joko: “When our king was among the living, there was an up-and-coming king in Elona who had delusions of grandeur and far too little respect for our undead liege. The two of them had many squabbles over the years, some nearly turning into full-scale wars.” – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Open_the_Flood_Gates_of_Death

This quote strongly implies that Joko was also a living king in Elona when their rivalry began. 500 years ago (from GW2) Palawa was hell-bent on conquering Elona and was already undead by then. I must admit, that this point greatly depends on personal interpretation, and alone is not enough to seriously prove the fallacy of that “500 years ago” claim, combined with the points below (summary at the end of the post) it creates a rather serious contradtion with what was said in the introductory of SotMK.

• The Bride: “The Mad King originally came to Elona to take a bride; of course he first had to win her heart. He tried every gift he could think of, but it was the mask he fashioned from mandragor carapaces that finally won her over. Either that or the sword he held to her father’s throat.” -http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Horseman_Maxilus

We don’t know which bride the horseman was referring to, but given that Thorn had 8 wives altogether, it’s quite possible he had more than one Elonan bride. The first interesting thing is the mention of the father who he used as hostage to force the girl into marriage. If this bride is the same whose demise is connected to the war between Kryta and Elona, it’s entirely possible that Joko – in life – was the humiliated and kidnapped father who lost her child to the same madman.

• Best possible timeframe for Thorn’s rule: somewhere between 452 AE – 640 AE. Approximately 100 years after the secession of Kryta, the Scarab Plague swept through Elona (mostly Istan) and resulted in the end of the Primeval Dynasty. First Admun Kolos establishes his Great Dynasty, then, after its fall, the Shattered Dynasty Era begins (and with it, a bloody civil war called the Pretender Wars).

Personally, I’d place Joko’s reign somwehere in this period as well. He could easily have been one of the last kings (or the last himself) of the Primeval Dynasty, a ruler descended from Admun Kolos, or a pretender of shattered dynasty. However, there’s still some more points before the final conclusion, so I’m not going to detail it further here. (I know it’s rather messy, but it’s quite difficult to present these thoughts without referencing back and forth. At the end everything will be much clearer.)

(Continued in the post below)

(Continued from the post above)

• Termites/scarabs: “Not many know it, but the Mad Kind is deathly afraid of termites. He would be horrified to find Elona crawling with them!” – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Horseman_Aramon

The Scarab Plague was a diesease that was connected to the harvested grain, which got infected somehow (do not ask how, though many of us suspect it was a magical corruption). People who ate the grain became violently ill, and at the end grown scarabs erupted from their bodies. If Thorn was alive at that time (and more, he was in Elona shortly prior to the outbreak, to find his bride), it would explain his phobia of the bugs. Of course, there could be other reasons as well, but the implications to the aforementioned idea are strong.

The question of Elona’s form of government: Elona, and later on the three provinces, changed system several times over the history. It could be easily said that during the 8th/9th century, there were still some kingdoms/dukedoms around (even after the fall of the dynasties), which would mean that princes and princesses were also common. However, the Timeline strongly implies that such was never the case:

757 AE- Palawa Joko builds his Bone Palace in the Desolation.
860 AE- Palawa Joko invades Elona, captures most of the Northern Province, earns the sobriquet “Scourge of Vabbi.”
862 AE – Turai Ossa defeats Palawa Joko at the Battle of Jahai. The Order of Whispers seals away Palawa Joko.
874 AE – Istan and Vabbi restore their clanmarshals. Kourna retains warmarshal ruler, Kunai Ossa. While Kunai Ossa refuses the Dynastic Crown, all warmarshals of Kourna are from the Ossa clan.

If they restored their clanmarshal system, it means they’d had it for some time before Turai Ossa became the King of all Elonans for a brief time. Before someone would bring up that Zola was a Vabbian princess (never said, only that she hailed from Vabbi – the region), I’d like to point out that Vabbi’s first princess was Amaki Voss, who assumed that title in 900 AE (even long after the approximate reign of Thorn the SotMK introductory denotes).

Summary and final theory: I find it hard to accept that King Thorn fought with Palawa Joko AND Elona at the same time, somewhere in the late 8th/early 9th century (and then it should be mentioned that Joko was already fighting the Elonans at that time). Thorn is said to be the long-forgotten king of ancient Kryta (said in the 11th century – 1070ies), thus it would make much more sense if he ruled 500 years before Guild Wars 1.

Imo, his hatred and rivalry with Palawa Joko originates from a time when both were alive, and Joko was clearly undead by the 757 AE. Therefore, I see it as much more viable that Joko was a Primeval King in life, and before the destruction of his Dynasty and his death, he had some rather big “misunderstandings” with Thorn (kidnapping him and using him as a hostage to condition his daughter, the later death of said daughter and an ensuing war born out of the grief of the mourning father). At the very end, the Scarab Plague is unleashed upon Elona (could be connected to Joko, incidentally… he could be the source and hence the reason why he “survived” it), and a phobia of termites and scarabs is born in Thorn.

On the other hand, it’s similarly possible that they both ruled later, either druing the time of the Great Dynasty (Joko being a descendant of Admund Kolos) or in the Shattered Dynasty Era (in which case Palawa was a despot with his own dynasty – fits him well). Of course, then the daughter and the termite thing cannot be applied.

All in all, the writers either dropped the ball – and in a catastrophical way (not checking their previously established lore) – or the 500 years is indeed counted from Guild Wars 1.

Thalador.4218:

• Timeline: Kryta was established as a colony of Elona in 300 AE, but 58 years later it gained independence. We don’t know whether it seceded peacefully or through war, the fact that it did must have created a tension between the two nations for some time. Thing is, there has been a war between Elona and Kryta in Thorn’s time:

“The Mad King shall return to Elona shortly. I do not believe he bears a grudge against the Elonian people for what happened to his bride all those years ago, nor the decades long war that followed.” – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Horseman_Jaysin

There’s no other mention of a war between the two nations ever again, especially not in the timeframe that was given in that introducory. It’s also worth mentioning that Elona was under siege by Palawa Joko even then, meaning that it’s doubtful Elona was fighting the Krytans as well… (King Sahlahjar of Sahlahja (a city in the Desolation) and his kingdom fell prey to him somewhere around 757 AE – when Joko finished his Bone Palace.)

Kryta seceding from Elona doesn’t have to have created tension between the two. Look at the former British Empire. In most cases (with the notable exception of the USA and India) the collapse of the empire was a relatively peaceful process which mainly happened through negotiation and most countries were allied with Britian almost immediately after gaining their independance.

IF Thorn was king at the time I think it’s safe to assume it wasn’t a peaceful process, but I think it’s a big jump to assume gaining independance must involve a war and therefore if only one war between Kryta and Elona is mentioned it had to have happened at that time.

The other possibility, considering this was during the monument building era in Elona (which was carried out by some very irresponsible and unpopular rulers) and just before the scarab plague, is that Kryta gained its independance in much the same way Europe became independant from the Roman Empire – it was simply beyond the capabilities of the “rulers” to actually govern their most far-flung territories so for lack of other options the locals reverted to self-govenance.

Thalador.4218:

874 AE – Istan and Vabbi restore their clanmarshals. Kourna retains warmarshal ruler, Kunai Ossa. While Kunai Ossa refuses the Dynastic Crown, all warmarshals of Kourna are from the Ossa clan.

If they restored their clanmarshal system, it means they’d had it for some time before Turai Ossa became the King of all Elonans for a brief time. Before someone would bring up that Zola was a Vabbian princess (never said, only that she hailed from Vabbi – the region), I’d like to point out that Vabbi’s first princess was Amaki Voss, who assumed that title in 900 AE (even long after the approximate reign of Thorn the SotMK introductory denotes).

It’s not out of the question for the princess to be the daughter of one of those clanmarshals. Many famous native American women are known as ‘princesses’ even though their parents were clan chiefs.

Especially since (if I remember correctly) it’s Krytans who refer to her as a princess and they would most likely have translated her actual title or position into an equivilent one from their own system and language.

Thalador.4218:

Timeline: Kryta was established as a colony of Elona in 300 AE, but 58 years later it gained independence. We don’t know whether it seceded peacefully or through war, the fact that it did must have created a tension between the two nations for some time. Thing is, there has been a war between Elona and Kryta in Thorn’s time:

“The Mad King shall return to Elona shortly. I do not believe he bears a grudge against the Elonian people for what happened to his bride all those years ago, nor the decades long war that followed.” – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Horseman_Jaysin

Uh, nothing – as far as I recall at the moment, or you provided – states the war was between Elona and Kryta. Just that there was a decades-long war. Though it’s true that there’s no mention of a war during that time (other than being a possible time of the Second Guild War).

Thalador.4218:

Best possible timeframe for Thorn’s rule: somewhere between 452 AE – 640 AE. Approximately 100 years after the secession of Kryta, the Scarab Plague swept through Elona (mostly Istan) and resulted in the end of the Primeval Dynasty. First Admun Kolos establishes his Great Dynasty, then, after its fall, the Shattered Dynasty Era begins (and with it, a bloody civil war called the Pretender Wars).

Personally, I’d place Joko’s reign somwehere in this period as well. He could easily have been one of the last kings (or the last himself) of the Primeval Dynasty, a ruler descended from Admun Kolos, or a pretender of shattered dynasty. However, there’s still some more points before the final conclusion, so I’m not going to detail it further here. (I know it’s rather messy, but it’s quite difficult to present these thoughts without referencing back and forth. At the end everything will be much clearer.

Given this, I’d probably link Thorn to the end of the Grand Dynasty – the “decades long war” could be the Pretender Wars quite easily – perhaps Thorn could have been bothered by these wars because his marriage made him a “rightful” ruler of somewhere in Elona, but the wars prevented that.

Though this is for his lifetime not his death date which the 500 years refers to. He could have been like Doric, living over 100 years. Though that’d imply the 500 years was a typo of 600 or 700 years.

Termites don’t need to be linked to the Scarab Plague – it may be due to his head being a pumpkin – a port-mortem fear.

So, if you go to the event page on the main site, it now mentions something along the lines of ‘will Thorn appear 500 years after his death day?’

You’re ignoring the “500th anniversary” – this indicates that he was, indeed, killed in 825 AE.

that’s what I was talking about o.o

Hunter.6950:

I’m very curious in how this “human” holiday is going to be celebrated by the other races. Just doesn’t make sense with what we know.

Didn’t the update claim that even among humans no one but children actually believes in him anymore?

I think the weird events in LA, which have the Priory investigating them with gusto, and the doors, etc. will get everyone’s attention, human holiday or not.

It doesn’t seem that Joko was the Elonian King who had his daughter stolen from him by Thorn. I did the second part of the Mad King Memoirs last night and you meet the ghost of this man in Bloodtide Coast. I cannot remember his name, but it was obviously not Joko.

He was like a Seamarshal or something

Which is interesting, seeing as if the princess came from the area now known as Vabbi, there is no sea anywhere around. Perhaps he had moved?

That is interesting, truth be told, that Zola’s father was a Seamarshal. Considering that’s an istani title. It seems that Zola was made out to be that unnamed istani princess, despite hailing from Vabbi.

I had thought that was purely istani, but I wasn’t sure if Kourna kept that title for certain people as well or not.

The only marshal title in Kourna I recall is Warmarshal – the leader of the province, which began, iirc, with Turai Ossa.

Istan and Vabbi had Clansmarshal (also known as princes in Vabbi), and the Seamarshal was the Istani navy leader, while Spearmarshal was the leader of the Order of the Sunspears.

That’s what I believed as well, but it always seemed strange to me that kourna wouldn’t have some sort of navy, having as much coastline as it did. I understand that it would pale in comparison to a country surrounded by water, but I would believe it would still exist.

I suspect that they did – and in fact, I believe that is one of the reasons behind the Sunspears recruiting Istan’s aid in their invasion of Gandara. But there’s no indication of their navy’s ranking officer being “Seamarshal.”

Yet, the way in which all the countries appear to share similar titles when it comes to military individuals (Warmarshall, Spearmarshall, Seamarshall) seems to point to the possibility that this could be the case.