Main and lesser races
Obviously, this is subjective, but the definitions I apply are:
Race: sapient species (able to self-perpetuate) capable of communication with others.
‘Major’ race: One of the five sophisticated races bound by semi-alliance, granting them notable legs up in being able to benefit from the advances of any of the others and being able to establish a presence in the territory of the others. These two advantages gives them a reach and power the other Tyrian races cannot match.
‘Lesser’ race: As used in the personal story, seems to apply to comparatively unsophisticated races. Only common factor appears to be that they in large hold tribal loyalties above racial ones (quaggans a possible exception), with all the drawbacks that come with that. For that reason I prefer to classify them as tribal races.
I have a few other classifications for the other GW2 races, but as that is beyond the scope of your questions, I’ll focus on those instead: no, I would not consider spiders or drakes races, as they are unable to communicate, and therefore cannot be proved to be truly sapient through the information available. As the alliance I refer to above did not exist in GW1, a seperate definition of ‘major’ race would be necessary for that game, but my gut says we don’t have enough information on the norn and asura at the time to decide whether they were truly on par with the humans. I would put dwarves into that camp, though. The snakes you recall could either be the forgotten, naga, or krait. Other than that, there are the seers, giants, wardens, several spiritual and demonic entities that may or may not meet my self-perpetuation criteria, and arguably others, although the fact that enemy factions very rarely spoke in that game makes it hard at times to distinguish between races and simple monsters. All have pages on the Guild Wars 1 wiki.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
There was a thread about this question a long time ago in this sub forum.
If I remember clearly, the consensus was that a) ‘lesser’ race is more on the gameplay than lore side of things, just to have a term to describe all non-main playable races and b) that major races have some form of civilization while lesser don’t.
Though there was some arguing about the definition of civilization.
What can be said for sure is that everything referred to as major and lesser race ingame is sapient.
There’s a few exceptions like Harpies, Ettins and trolls that are kinda uncategorized despite their sapience… or at least I wouldn’t know where to place them.
Typically the “lesser race” has two definitions:
The first is simply the sympathetic races – quaggan, skritt, hylek, grawl, and ogre.
The second is, effectively, “allegiance-questionable low-technology but have (non-united) civilization.”
The main thing that makes the playable races a “major” race, however, seems to be united territory and advancement of civilization. The five major races control nearly full geographical regions, and have either advancements in technology, magical understanding, or culture. This is something all other races – that communicate frequently (read: tengu, largos, and partially kodan are questionable) – lack.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Lesser race – anything that isn’t human. You know it to be true in your heart.
I would personally use the following typology (for intelligent races):
1. Major races: Humans, Charr, Asura, Sylvari, Norn.
2. Ancient races (or whatever): Dwarves, Forgotten, Jotun, Mursaat, Seers.
3. Minor races: Quaggan, Skritt, Hylek, Grawl, Ogre.
4. Enemy races: Centaurs, Harpies, Krait, Dredge.
5. Other (the most likely races to be added in the future as playable races): Tengu, Kodan, Largos.
(edited by Diovid.9506)
I would personally use the following typology (for intelligent races):
1. Major races: Humans, Charr, Asura, Sylvari, Norn.
2. Ancient races (or whatever): Dwarves, Forgotten, Jotun, Mursaat, Seers.
3. Minor races: Quaggan, Skritt, Hylek, Grawl, Ogre.
4. Enemy races: Centaurs, Harpies, Krait, Dredge.
5. Other (the most likely races to be added in the future as playable races): Tengu, Kodan, Largos.
The assumption that any race is going to be added as a playable race is a poor one. The best bet is no new races will be added. Anet never added new races to GW1 and adding a new race to GW2 would require a new PS to be added.
The assumption that any race is going to be added as a playable race is a poor one. The best bet is no new races will be added. Anet never added new races to GW1 and adding a new race to GW2 would require a new PS to be added.
I didn’t make that assumption. What I meant was that if any new race is going to be added, I predict it to be one of those. Specifically I predict Tengu have the highest chance of being added and of being added first (for a variety of reasons).
Forgotten, i was thinking about ‘Naga’ as their name but i knew it was something else. The little lore i know regarding gw1 is from wiki.
Im surprised that Jotun seem to have so low of a role, when the Norn have a main one; even if they seem more primitive (ancient) from what i’ve seen from gw2 they seem to be more closer as a race (might be to their low numbers tho) compared with the Norn and i believe they have understanding about magic too? They just lack technology, but so the Norn don’t seem to be that brilliant either. I know that not everyone can have the same importance, i just find these 2 – for someone who doesn’t know much about lore like me – very similar yet we barely see Jotun even as enemies. What makes the Norn that much more eligible than the Jotun (or Kodan for that matter) to be a main race, even their background story is similar right? And they used to be a dominating race at some point, is it their lack of numbers (Norn seem to be few as well), or are their communicating skills just lacking or something else?
What about Giants, i imagine them to be very very few, but if that wasn’t the case, where would they fit, a major race, a ‘tribal’ one like Ogres and Grawl, or more on the Ettin, Harpy level?
What about Lupicus before their extinction, if they were still present (ignoring how that could affect nowadays gw events) where could they fit?
On jotun: they aren’t as important because what we have now are just inbred, uneducated savages living in the ruins of their ancestors. Any understanding of magic or technology they once had is long lost- at this point, in terms of both sophistication and aggression, they are on par with the grawl. The norn, by comparison, are thriving (even spread thinner than the other major races, that still puts them at an immense numbers advantage over the jotun) and have proven themselves capable of keeping up in modern magic and technology, even if they admittedly don’t seem to contribute to driving those fields forward.
On giants: honestly, we don’t know nearly enough about them to make that call. I believe there are, in total, seven in the game, and while the ones who bother to speak to us do seem to be fairly well-spoken, we never see them using tools or magic, I don’t believe we see any structures associated with them besides crude lash-ups, and we never see them interact with each other or provide insight into their people. Giants as they currently exist in GW2 are simply a handful of cave hermits- the question of whether that’s all that’s left of their people, or simply exiles from a community existent in regions yet unseen, is currently unanswerable.
The Lupicus we’ve gotten conflicting information on- and it doesn’t help that we know from out-of-game that the term actually refers to several different species, who might have been at massively different points of development. The undead lupi seen in Arah seems to have received magitech augmentation, but the scant records from the Priory in Hidden Arcana seem to indicate their civilization wasn’t technologically advanced. The data available could fit anything from the Lupis being essentially large animals to them being somethings like the seers or mursaat-advanced, but not much caring for weapons (perhaps due to the fact that their comparative size and claws made things like swords redundant).
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Minor races are whoever Evon Gnashblade says they are.
Seriously. Hear me out.
In addition to “minor” or “lesser” the grawl, hylek, ogres, quaggan, and skritt are also grouped as the “tribal races”. (You see that alternate term here, for example: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Personal_story#Part_V_.E2.80.94_Helping_Hands_.E2.80.94_Level_50) And just like on Earth, that word is nearly meaningless except to dismiss their cultures and incorrectly associate them together. As you get into the story you find they each have their own rich mythology and society, magic, and unique technology. They have cities, languages, agriculture, and political structures. They also seem to have populations that rival the so-called “major” races.
As to the more mythic races like the tengu and kodan, they too are pretty obviously advanced beings. (Heck, the kodan seem like they might be considerably more advanced than the “major” races in a lot of dimensions) They’re just physically far removed from most of the population of Tyria and exacerbate that distance by being isolationist to varying degrees- so they aren’t so much “minor” as they are “mysterious”.
And we won’t even discuss the citizens of the Moletariat. That’s an even more highly advanced, highly organized society that just happens to be at war with most of the other highly advanced, highly organized societies- which is hardly unique to them, after all. It hasn’t been that long since the humans and charr were at war, and both still have rebel and/or terrorist groups making plenty of trouble.
So “major” vs “minor” doesn’t seem to be about technology, population, spirituality, or political organization. It also clearly isn’t about being enemies or allies. So what’s left?
Trade.
The only universal difference between what we call “major” and what we call “minor” races in Tyria is whether the trade federation / spacer’s guild / dutch east india company of this world, which is to say the Black Lion Trading Company, is doing business with them. Whether it’s self-imposed (as I suspect it is of the dredge), due to remoteness (as of the kodan), or simply because they aren’t perceived as worth the effort (like those “tribal races” above), ultimately it’s up to Evon Gnashblade. If he permanently stations traders at your cities than you are “major”. Otherwise, so sorry, you don’t get to be one of the cool kids and for the most part even the supposedly enlightened Orders write your entire species off as unemployable.
Forgotten, i was thinking about ‘Naga’ as their name but i knew it was something else. The little lore i know regarding gw1 is from wiki.
Naga were a Canthan serpentine race, and they appear far closer to the krait’s GW2 appearance than they did the Forgotten – furthermore, the naga have been outright confirmed to be unrelated to the Forgotten.
Im surprised that Jotun seem to have so low of a role, when the Norn have a main one
On top of what Aaron said, they’re not united while the norn are (sans Sons of Svanir).
They just lack technology, but so the Norn don’t seem to be that brilliant either.
Say that to the man who rediscovered Deldrimor Steel and is considered the finest blacksmith in all of Tyria, and you may not return. The norn have a lot of undervalued geniuses – undervalued because the charr are a systematic race of engineers and the asura are a race of geniuses – not too dissimilar from the humans in fact.
we barely see Jotun even as enemies
EVERY jotun we come across is an enemy – sans Thruln the Lost.
even their background story is similar right?
Nope.
What about Giants, i imagine them to be very very few, but if that wasn’t the case, where would they fit, a major race, a ‘tribal’ one like Ogres and Grawl, or more on the Ettin, Harpy level?
What about Lupicus before their extinction, if they were still present (ignoring how that could affect nowadays gw events) where could they fit?
We don’t really know enough about the degraded giants or the extinct G-Lupe to say.
In addition to “minor” or “lesser” the grawl, hylek, ogres, quaggan, and skritt are also grouped as the “tribal races”. (You see that alternate term here, for example: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Personal_story#Part_V_.E2.80.94_Helping_Hands_.E2.80.94_Level_50)
Purely fan-written and probably because at least three of the sympathy races are indeed tribal (quaggan and skritt are not really tribal at all).
The “official” terms are sympathy and lesser.
And just like on Earth, that word is nearly meaningless except to dismiss their cultures and incorrectly associate them together.
Tribal societies refer to societies that live in small, often nomadic, groups and cultures that tend to keep to themselves and are led by a chieftain and/or shaman. (Note: “Small” simply means “not a nation” in my usage).
During GW1, dredge were tribal as they were led by their shamans (even under slavery). In GW2, quaggan and skritt are not tribal because quaggan had a united nation that’s been fractured (even royalty) and skritt simply congregate (with no real indication of nomadic or isolationist qualities in their cultures, or intentional small groups).
As you get into the story you find they each have their own rich mythology and society, magic, and unique technology. They have cities, languages, agriculture, and political structures. They also seem to have populations that rival the so-called “major” races.
You… are wrong. Only the hylek and skritt have a city (Skrittsburg and Zintl Holy Grounds), but neither are part of the Personal Story; and the knowledge we get of their magic is limited and none of them have unique technology. Their populations do, arguably, rival the major races but they are not united (any longer).
So “major” vs “minor” doesn’t seem to be about technology, population, spirituality, or political organization. It also clearly isn’t about being enemies or allies. So what’s left?
Trade.
Interesting concept, except that dredge aren’t really referred to as a minor race – nor are tengu or kodan. The minor races term has only been used to refer to: Ogre, quaggan, grawl, skritt, and hylek. Whom are not united (lacking political organization), have a spread out population, and have little to no technology.
So while trade is lacking for them, this is because they have no political organization (anymore, in the case of the quaggan).
Furthermore, trade is NOT lacking for tengu.
Before being pushed out by the DSD, the quaggan could no doubt be considered a major race; the tengu, kodan, and largos could still be as well, though for the kodan their shattered political organization is a hindrance to being referred to as such.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Alright guys, really thanks for the answers, was enjoyable to read them : )