Malyck and HoT

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Posted by: yhvh.8703

yhvh.8703

I was just playing a new character Story and chose Malyck’s way, and doing that just made me remember of this NPC.

I wonder what’s gonna happen to his lore comes HoT… I have a couple of theories of where Malyck came from:

1) We will find another Grove that is corruption-immune like the Pale Tree and is fighting against the Mordrem, we’ll see Malyck leading forces there.

2) We will find another Grove of sylvari that is (maybe just recently) under Mordrem control and we’ll find Malyck as an antagonist.

Any way or another, this is a nice chance for the writers to expand a forgotten thread of lore that started with the game’s launch and apparently nobody spoke more of.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

There was a concept art that I think showed another tree in the expac. Didn’t confirm anything obviously, but provides potential food for thought

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

  1. seems unlikely. Malyck says that he has no Dream and it is heavily implied that the Dream is part of the cause of immunity.

I’m expecting that the tree will be constantly fighting against Mordremoth the same way that Glint fought against Kralkatorrik immediately after it woke. I imagine a bit of a civil war situation there.

Otherwise, it’s most likely the source of the Mordrem Guard.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Evans.6347

Evans.6347

Come to think about it, why did Caithe or the Pale Tree let him go back anyway. If both knew that the Sylvari, as a race, were dragon minions all along, and Malyck confirmed he had no dream, then they basically let him go back to tell the dragon all about their location and organisation.

Joy to the world, ignorance is bliss

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

*sits back and braces for the return of the ‘Caithe killed Malyck!’ theories.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: Evans.6347

Evans.6347

That sounds very unlikely to me. Obviously Caithe’s secret is out of the bag now, ending LS2. But the thing is, knowing what they knew back then, why on earth didn’t they send a squad of wardens along with him, to verify the location and nature of the other tree.

It might even not have been to late to get some sort of control over them.

Joy to the world, ignorance is bliss

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Posted by: Jermoe Morrow.9501

Jermoe Morrow.9501

That sounds very unlikely to me. Obviously Caithe’s secret is out of the bag now, ending LS2. But the thing is, knowing what they knew back then, why on earth didn’t they send a squad of wardens along with him, to verify the location and nature of the other tree.

It might even not have been to late to get some sort of control over them.

First remember that all decisions here were probably made by the incredibly paranoid Caithe.

Perhaps there was fear that sending too many Sylvari would let loose the secret of the second tree? All Sylvari are connected to the Dream of Dreams by default, so the more Sylvari involved, the more likely a newborn Sylvari pops out talking about their wild hunt to see the other tree?

From a more mundane perspective: The nightmare court does have very convincing spies, like that guy from white stag storyline, who may have infiltrated the wardens. Even without a spy in the wardens, all it takes is 1 warden to spill the beans in some casual remark to a friend for the court to decide to tail these warden to the new tree.

Given how Caithe was obsessed with keeping the secret, what if the wardens arrive at the tree and it is totally Mordy controlled? If they don’t all get killed, they are going to come back screaming of corrupted sylvari.

Of course all those warden would just get in the way of Caithe just out right murdering Malyck as he walked home.

80s(name-race/class):Jermoe Morrow(main) – H/Ra
Blue Dorito-S/Re|Transitor-S/En |Tina Feyspirit-N/M|
Bmoe-A/T|Peter Whatsherface-H/G|Acolyte Rin-H/N

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Posted by: Sariel V.7024

Sariel V.7024

*sits back and braces for the return of the ‘Caithe killed Malyck!’ theories.

Hey, I came up with mine independently ;D

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

So did the thousands of people who ‘came up with’ the whole ‘six gods = six dragons’ or ‘sylvari are dragon minions’ (despite the fact that there are more inconsistencies with any other dragon minion’s shared traits – and with mordrem – than consistencies, both before and after the confirmation of the theory).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Fyur.8152

Fyur.8152

I hate to say this but.. nightmare court calls Malyck the harbringer… The harbringer..of… the rest you already know or speculate already. (sorry to bump)

No, Fyur is a name, I did NOT try to type fire.

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

It’s not quite that cut-and-dry. The term is open to interpretation. Maybe he will come to be Mordremoth’s champion, but as things currently stand, the doom he’s the Harbinger of is that the secret he reveals (that there are more sylvari elsewhere) would leave the Nightmare Court free to raze the Grove to the ground without repercussion. Faolain would just lead them to start over afresh, with a tree that might not inherently resist the Nightmare.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

It’s made rather clear in the personal story that he was a harbinger of the fact that the Pale Tree wasn’t the only sylvari tree.

There’s nothing to argue that he’s a harbinger of Mordremoth. If it was, he’d be rather evil rather than the ‘good but unmerciful’ that we saw (very much like Caithe).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: morenzo.1062

morenzo.1062

Going around and looking the news of Guild Wars 2 I found this image.
It could be the Malick`s tree and the most interesting thing is the presence of Caithe and Faolain.

Attachments:

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

That is the thought that floated around about that image first time it popped up right after the PAX South announcement in January – that image was shown during announcement amongst other concept art pieces.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

I’m not sure if the accepted definition holds as well now that we know Caithe’s secret. Yes, there is the issue that the Nightmare court is now free to destroy the tree. However, for years now, Caithe has been willing to kill to keep the true nature of the sylvari secret. There was no way she was going to let Faolain know about her secret, and Malyck may have spilled that secret, which I believe she feels is the greater threat. She has already killed once to prevent Faolain from learning her secret.

I also believe Malyck is dead. I can’t imagine Caithe letting him return to his old tree. It’s entirely possible that Malyck was a spy.

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Posted by: morenzo.1062

morenzo.1062

That is the thought that floated around about that image first time it popped up right after the PAX South announcement in January – that image was shown during announcement amongst other concept art pieces.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Well, surely I think it wasn’t a chance so, I hope it’s bound to the history, because if the Malyck’s tree should already be corrupted it would be so ordinary.
I should like the idea of Caithe e Faolain working together to save the tree (i adored episode 7 “seeds of truth”).

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

@DarcShriek: I’ve seen that argument before, but I really don’t see how “there are more sylvari out there” gives away the secret that “sylvari are dragon minions”.

And given his personality, and that we’ve been interacting with Caithe ever since, I can’t see Caithe having the time to hunt Malyck down, let alone wanting to.

@Morenzo: That’s actually how the Pale Tree looks, more or less. So it certainly doesn’t seem to be corrupted – at least in a manner that results in physical change – in the depiction of that concept art.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

@DarcShriek: I’ve seen that argument before, but I really don’t see how “there are more sylvari out there” gives away the secret that “sylvari are dragon minions”.

And given his personality, and that we’ve been interacting with Caithe ever since, I can’t see Caithe having the time to hunt Malyck down, let alone wanting to.

@Morenzo: That’s actually how the Pale Tree looks, more or less. So it certainly doesn’t seem to be corrupted – at least in a manner that results in physical change – in the depiction of that concept art.

I hope you haven’t fell into the misconception that all NPCs can only speak the truth. We don’t know enough about Malyck to know if he was being honest about his origins. Especially considering Mordy’s ability to affect the mind.

The existence of other sylvari in itself does not prove that sylvari are minions. However, a determined Nightmare court interogator may be able to extract the information from Mallyck. Why leave it up to chance, get Mallyck out of sight and kill him. Caithe knew that sylvari are meant to be minions and that the pale tree was protecting this particular group. Caithe would have no way of knowing whether or not Mallyck was safe. The best way to insure he’s safe, is to insure he is dead.

Caithe has had plenty of time to kill Malyck. She knew the direction he was heading. It wouldn’t take more than a day or two to accomplish. Honestly, letting him live would be stupid. Caithe doesn’t appear to be that stupid.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

You should know I don’t, Darc, as I said that very recently in another threat (that they don’t).

But Malyck presents no reason not to lie. And he’d have to be a very good actor to be able to keep that straight face of not knowing about the Pale Tree, Dream, Nightmare, or even what sylvari are that entire time, while also presenting to the others exactly where he came from or having his past dug into.

It’s rather counter-intuitive for Malyck to intentionally lead the PC, Caithe, and Trahearne towards his past, as well as to kill the Knight of Embers, if he was an agent of Mordremoth.

And I think you’re over-estimating Caithe’s abilities. I think Twilight Arbor’s Aetherpath shows that she’s not all that she’s cracked up to be. At least when under pressure of her reasons.

And this ignores the fact that Caithe wouldn’t know his direction – at least not on time to catch up – if the PC goes with Trahearne (as she is not present in that story mission where Malyck leaves).

Plus it wouldn’t make much sense in storytelling – it’d be a plot hook that was removed for no real reason other than character consistency that wasn’t even established at the time, when we have Anet ignoring consistency for the sole sake of leaving plot hooks open for future use (that never seem to get used).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

You should know I don’t, Darc, as I said that very recently in another threat (that they don’t).

But Malyck presents no reason not to lie. And he’d have to be a very good actor to be able to keep that straight face of not knowing about the Pale Tree, Dream, Nightmare, or even what sylvari are that entire time, while also presenting to the others exactly where he came from or having his past dug into.

It’s rather counter-intuitive for Malyck to intentionally lead the PC, Caithe, and Trahearne towards his past, as well as to kill the Knight of Embers, if he was an agent of Mordremoth.

And I think you’re over-estimating Caithe’s abilities. I think Twilight Arbor’s Aetherpath shows that she’s not all that she’s cracked up to be. At least when under pressure of her reasons.

And this ignores the fact that Caithe wouldn’t know his direction – at least not on time to catch up – if the PC goes with Trahearne (as she is not present in that story mission where Malyck leaves).

Plus it wouldn’t make much sense in storytelling – it’d be a plot hook that was removed for no real reason other than character consistency that wasn’t even established at the time, when we have Anet ignoring consistency for the sole sake of leaving plot hooks open for future use (that never seem to get used).

Malyck had plenty of reason to lie if he was an agent of Mordremoth. He wouldn’t have to be an actor to pull if off. In case you forgot, one of Mordy’s spheres of influence is the mind. He took control on Scarlet, Malyck probably would have been easier. The pod could have been placed by other sylvari. That’s why it was so odd as to throw everyone off. If things go wrong, then there’s no evidence as to the location of the second tree, because not even Malyck knows where it is.

Malyck, didn’t go back to his tree at the end, he went looking for it because he didn’t know where it was. He had never been exposed before his birth. He was the perfect spy.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Scarlet inadvertedly actively sought Mordremoth out by using Omadd’s machine, however, and no other sylvari is known to have been influenced by Mordremoth until after he began stirring – which was Aeron, whom was not only Soundless but in close proximity.

There’s a good chance Malyck and his tree has been corrupted, but this is only a ‘good chance’ after the Battle for Lion’s Arch.

And Malyck outright states that he knows the general location of the tree: “Somewhere to the west, at the source of that river, there’s another tree. Maybe even another city, with more sylvari like me. My family.”

That doesn’t really sound like throwing people off. It’s rather specific. At the source of the river.

Oddly enough, we players know exactly where that river’s source is. It’s a place known to Shining Blade, Maguuma centaurs, Druids, and asura alike – The Falls.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

Scarlet inadvertedly actively sought Mordremoth out by using Omadd’s machine, however, and no other sylvari is known to have been influenced by Mordremoth until after he began stirring – which was Aeron, whom was not only Soundless but in close proximity.

There’s a good chance Malyck and his tree has been corrupted, but this is only a ‘good chance’ after the Battle for Lion’s Arch.

And Malyck outright states that he knows the general location of the tree: “Somewhere to the west, at the source of that river, there’s another tree. Maybe even another city, with more sylvari like me. My family.”

That doesn’t really sound like throwing people off. It’s rather specific. At the source of the river.

Oddly enough, we players know exactly where that river’s source is. It’s a place known to Shining Blade, Maguuma centaurs, Druids, and asura alike – The Falls.

Scarlet was protected by the dream and was lived far from Mordy. Malyck was not protected by the dream, and originated close to Mordy. He was essentially soundless. Consider also that Sylvari are, by nature designed to be used by Mordy.

Scarlet shows that Mordy does not have to be fully awake to control his subjects. Also, once again you assume that it’s a fact that Malyck was telling the truth about the tree’s location. It’s not a fact, it’s simply your assumption.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Scarlet actually wasn’t protected by the Dream. In the short story, it’s explicitly stated she hadn’t heard the Pale Tree’s voice in years. Dreamers can hear her when she calls, Soundless cannot.

And entering the Machine brought her mind close to Mordremoth’s (and all the other Elder Dragons, probably).

We actually aren’t sure where Mordremoth is specifically, so while Malyck’s tree is closer it isn’t necessarily close. Furthermore, Mordremoth was still asleep when Malyck was awoke.

Mordremoth only affected Scarlet because she went in Omadd’s Machine.

There is no reason to believe Malyck was lying except for tinfoil hat theories, such as yours – that he was ‘always corrupted.’

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

There is no reason to believe Malyck was lying except for tinfoil hat theories, such as yours – that he was ‘always corrupted.’

And if he was, why wouldn’t he have worked with the Nightmare Court? After all one of the things that stops the Nightmare Court from burning the Pale Tree down is the lack of new Sylvari that would result. In fact that was the whole plot of Malycks story, the Nightmare Court sought him out to find the location of the other tree so they could destroy the Pale Tree and hopefully have more luck converting the other tree.
Judging by the actions of the Shadow it seems Mordy would want the Pale Tree gone.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

Scarlet actually wasn’t protected by the Dream. In the short story, it’s explicitly stated she hadn’t heard the Pale Tree’s voice in years. Dreamers can hear her when she calls, Soundless cannot.

And entering the Machine brought her mind close to Mordremoth’s (and all the other Elder Dragons, probably).

We actually aren’t sure where Mordremoth is specifically, so while Malyck’s tree is closer it isn’t necessarily close. Furthermore, Mordremoth was still asleep when Malyck was awoke.

Mordremoth only affected Scarlet because she went in Omadd’s Machine.

There is no reason to believe Malyck was lying except for tinfoil hat theories, such as yours – that he was ‘always corrupted.’

It’s not a tin foil hat theory and your use of the term is very offensive. Mordy was asleep and and still was able to control Scarlet. It is not tinfoil hat theorizing to believe that he could control a being specially bred to be controlled by him. He’s controlling something because the other seeds managed to get planted deliberately where he wanted them.

If you go back and read the short story, Scarlet went outside of the Pale Tree’s ability to protect her. That’s when Mordy took her over. Malyck’s entire existence has been outside the Pale Tree’s protection. To assume Mordy couldn’t over take Malyck is to underestimate the abilities of “a force of nature”.

Caithe would have had to kill Malyck privately. If anyone were to find out that she killed him, then the secret would be blown. Caithe has already killed to keep the secret, so she’s capable of doing it. Despite your claims that she can’t.

(edited by DarcShriek.5829)

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

There is no reason to believe Malyck was lying except for tinfoil hat theories, such as yours – that he was ‘always corrupted.’

And if he was, why wouldn’t he have worked with the Nightmare Court? After all one of the things that stops the Nightmare Court from burning the Pale Tree down is the lack of new Sylvari that would result. In fact that was the whole plot of Malycks story, the Nightmare Court sought him out to find the location of the other tree so they could destroy the Pale Tree and hopefully have more luck converting the other tree.
Judging by the actions of the Shadow it seems Mordy would want the Pale Tree gone.

Nightmare Court does not work for Mordy. They are also protected by the dream.

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Posted by: kta.6502

kta.6502

*sits back and braces for the return of the ‘Caithe killed Malyck!’ theories.

Hey, I got a new theory for you: Malyck becomes his own tree.

He is the “harbinger” after all

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

It’s not a tin foil hat theory and your use of the term is very offensive.

You have no actual evidence to back your claim, and that’s what tends to classify something as a tinfoil hat theory.

Mordy was asleep and and still was able to control Scarlet.

Again, because she went to him through a method not available to the everyday individual.

Malyck – or any other sylvari, Dream protected or not – did not.

This is the key and constantly ignored aspect that breaks down your theory and drives it into tinfoil hat area.

That and the fact that no dragon minion ever anywhere acts as a sleeper agent thus far.

You are working on the basis of nothing beyond loose strings.

He’s controlling something because the other seeds managed to get planted deliberately where he wanted them.

Issue two:

Whoever said that the cave was not purified? There was no purification ritual cast on the Pale Tree so we’ve been told and no indication of such. Malyck was indeed acting unlike any dragon minion – mordrem or otherwise – we’ve ever seen

If you go back and read the short story, Scarlet went outside of the Pale Tree’s ability to protect her. That’s when Mordy took her over.

I think you should go re-read the short story.

Scarlet did more than just go outside the Pale Tree’s ability to protect her. The short story explicitly states “Ceara paused. She hadn’t heard the Pale Tree’s voice in years.” Further, she delved into that connection between Pale Tree and Mordremoth – though that wasn’t shown in the short story itself, but in The Machine’s cinematic.

Malyck’s entire existence has been outside the Pale Tree’s protection. To assume Mordy couldn’t over take Malyck is to underestimate the abilities of “a force of nature”.

That phrase is a misnomer in of itself. It is used by the common folk of Tyria to describe something they literally do not understand. ArenaNet uses it a lot too, but they’ve also stated that this is from the average Tyrian’s perspective.

In other words: the Elder Dragons are not forces of nature. They merely seem to be such to the uneducated mind.

And why could Mordremoth control Malyck. He was asleep. And again, he could only influence Scarlet because she prodded his mind. The same thing that Jennah and Snaff did to Kralkatorrik – but Jennah reeled back before she could be affected, and Snaff managed to figure out how Kralkatorrik thinks.

What does this mean? It means Scarlet failed where Snaff succeeded.

And Malyck did not attempt this act.

Caithe would have had to kill Malyck privately. If anyone were to find out that she killed him, then the secret would be blown. Caithe has already killed to keep the secret, so she’s capable of doing it. Despite your claims that she can’t.

Caithe could kill Malyck and keep the secret that she kept – that the sylvari are dragon minions – with ease. By stating that it was too risky for Malyck to live because if the Nightmare Court ever found out in the future then their actions now were for naught.

I wasn’t saying she cannot kill. I was saying that Malyck would have gotten too far for her to follow suit, kill him, and return on time for our next interaction.

In other words: there wasn’t enough time. It’s got nothing to do with whether or not she could kill, but how fast she could track him down, kill him, and return. Which wasn’t much.

Nightmare Court does not work for Mordy. They are also protected by the dream.

That’s yet to be seen, really.

While it is heavily implied as of late that the Nightmare does indeed protect them from Mordremoth’s control like the Dream does – but still altering them as well – the Nightmare Court are first and foremost interested in being to their true selves. Which would be serving Mordremoth.

So the Nightmare Court’s ultimate goal – whether they realize it or not – is to become full fledged mordrem.

CureForLiving’s point remains: both forces would want the Pale Tree dead. So if Malyck was working for Mordremoth, he would have betrayed us and tried to kill us.

He certainly wouldn’t go out of his way to free the wardens personally – something that was explicitly stated in the storyline to be more than what others would or should do – either.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

It’s not a tin foil hat theory and your use of the term is very offensive.

You have no actual evidence to back your claim, and that’s what tends to classify something as a tinfoil hat theory.

Mordy was asleep and and still was able to control Scarlet.

Again, because she went to him through a method not available to the everyday individual.

Malyck – or any other sylvari, Dream protected or not – did not.

This is the key and constantly ignored aspect that breaks down your theory and drives it into tinfoil hat area.

That and the fact that no dragon minion ever anywhere acts as a sleeper agent thus far.

You are working on the basis of nothing beyond loose strings.

He’s controlling something because the other seeds managed to get planted deliberately where he wanted them.

Issue two:

Whoever said that the cave was not purified? There was no purification ritual cast on the Pale Tree so we’ve been told and no indication of such. Malyck was indeed acting unlike any dragon minion – mordrem or otherwise – we’ve ever seen

If you go back and read the short story, Scarlet went outside of the Pale Tree’s ability to protect her. That’s when Mordy took her over.

I think you should go re-read the short story.

Scarlet did more than just go outside the Pale Tree’s ability to protect her. The short story explicitly states “Ceara paused. She hadn’t heard the Pale Tree’s voice in years.” Further, she delved into that connection between Pale Tree and Mordremoth – though that wasn’t shown in the short story itself, but in The Machine’s cinematic.

Malyck’s entire existence has been outside the Pale Tree’s protection. To assume Mordy couldn’t over take Malyck is to underestimate the abilities of “a force of nature”.

That phrase is a misnomer in of itself. It is used by the common folk of Tyria to describe something they literally do not understand. ArenaNet uses it a lot too, but they’ve also stated that this is from the average Tyrian’s perspective.

In other words: the Elder Dragons are not forces of nature. They merely seem to be such to the uneducated mind.

And why could Mordremoth control Malyck. He was asleep. And again, he could only influence Scarlet because she prodded his mind. The same thing that Jennah and Snaff did to Kralkatorrik – but Jennah reeled back before she could be affected, and Snaff managed to figure out how Kralkatorrik thinks.

What does this mean? It means Scarlet failed where Snaff succeeded.

And Malyck did not attempt this act.

Caithe would have had to kill Malyck privately. If anyone were to find out that she killed him, then the secret would be blown. Caithe has already killed to keep the secret, so she’s capable of doing it. Despite your claims that she can’t.

Caithe could kill Malyck and keep the secret that she kept – that the sylvari are dragon minions – with ease. By stating that it was too risky for Malyck to live because if the Nightmare Court ever found out in the future then their actions now were for naught.

I wasn’t saying she cannot kill. I was saying that Malyck would have gotten too far for her to follow suit, kill him, and return on time for our next interaction.

In other words: there wasn’t enough time. It’s got nothing to do with whether or not she could kill, but how fast she could track him down, kill him, and return. Which wasn’t much.

Nightmare Court does not work for Mordy. They are also protected by the dream.

That’s yet to be seen, really.

While it is heavily implied as of late that the Nightmare does indeed protect them from Mordremoth’s control like the Dream does – but still altering them as well – the Nightmare Court are first and foremost interested in being to their true selves. Which would be serving Mordremoth.

So the Nightmare Court’s ultimate goal – whether they realize it or not – is to become full fledged mordrem.

CureForLiving’s point remains: both forces would want the Pale Tree dead. So if Malyck was working for Mordremoth, he would have betrayed us and tried to kill us.

He certainly wouldn’t go out of his way to free the wardens personally – something that was explicitly stated in the storyline to be more than what others would or should do – either.

Why do you think Malyck would need to take the methods that Scarlet took? Scarlet was physically outside of Mordy’s zone of control, she needed to take the extra steps. Malyck wouldn’t need to take those extra steps because he developed closer to Mordy and he did not have the dream to protect him.

Oh yes, I forgot, you believe that minions are created like cookies with little magic cookie cutters stamping them into creation. That’s why you couldn’t recognize that Scarlet was working for Mordy, because you claimed “that’s not how minions work”. Devs have stated repeatedly that Mordy controls minions differently.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about with the whole purification bit. I do know that there were two plant creatures guarding the cave that the seeds were in. Something planted the seeds so that the sylvari would be ready when Mordy woke up. The plant creature guardians would be able to fit that role. Please explain your purification rant.

Interesting thing in the epilogue for LS 2. There a segment that shows a number of sylvari attacking humans. The sylvari appear to be nightmare court members led by faolain. The curious thing about this segment is all the sylvari, except Faolain have red splotches on them. Faolain doesn’t have any red splotches. Red has often been used to signify Mordy’s influence on the sylvari. For example ceara changing her name to Scarlet and the red thorns attacking the pale tree.

Scarlet was created in 1320, four years before the Thaumanova Reactor incident. Mordy does indeed employ sleeper agents.

(edited by DarcShriek.5829)

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

There is no reason to believe Malyck was lying except for tinfoil hat theories, such as yours – that he was ‘always corrupted.’

And if he was, why wouldn’t he have worked with the Nightmare Court? After all one of the things that stops the Nightmare Court from burning the Pale Tree down is the lack of new Sylvari that would result. In fact that was the whole plot of Malycks story, the Nightmare Court sought him out to find the location of the other tree so they could destroy the Pale Tree and hopefully have more luck converting the other tree.
Judging by the actions of the Shadow it seems Mordy would want the Pale Tree gone.

Nightmare Court does not work for Mordy. They are also protected by the dream.

Common goals. The nightmare court would be willing to destroy the Pale Tree if they knew there was another tree (because they assume another tree would be easier to corrupt). Mordy has demonstrated a desire to destroy the Pale Tree. If Malyk was a secret agent he could easily have leveraged the Nightmare Court to indirectly achieve Mordy’s aim. Further there is also some speculation that the Pale Tree plays an important role in providing protection to the Sylvari. If the Pale Tree was out of the way then Mordy would have (eventually) been able to more easily re-acquire all Sylvari, Nightmare Court and not.

That and the fact that no dragon minion ever anywhere acts as a sleeper agent thus far.

What about the undead Mesmer that disguised herself as a Charr and framed the PC for murder?
Or is that stretching the meaning of ‘sleeper agent’?

Scarlet was created in 1320, four years before the Thaumanova Reactor incident. Mordy does indeed employ sleeper agents.

Do we know for certain that Scarlet caused the meltdown for Mordy? From the fractal it just seems she popped in to get the Inquest research on the lay-lines. I’m not sure about the timeline, but I assume this was before she got into the machine (since the machine was attached to a leyline nexus which she could only find with the Inquest data).

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

I’m not sure about the timeline, but I assume this was before she got into the machine (since the machine was attached to a leyline nexus which she could only find with the Inquest data).

I’m not sure about the Thaumanova timeline myself, but when she went into the machine it was in Rata Sum- no need for a ley line. The one we found out in Dry Top was presumably either moved or built there later.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

I’m not sure about the timeline, but I assume this was before she got into the machine (since the machine was attached to a leyline nexus which she could only find with the Inquest data).

I’m not sure about the Thaumanova timeline myself, but when she went into the machine it was in Rata Sum- no need for a ley line. The one we found out in Dry Top was presumably either moved or built there later.

Oh ok! So maybe then…

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Why do you think Malyck would need to take the methods that Scarlet took? Scarlet was physically outside of Mordy’s zone of control, she needed to take the extra steps. Malyck wouldn’t need to take those extra steps because he developed closer to Mordy and he did not have the dream to protect him.

  1. Ronan stumbled into a cave full of dragon minions – something said to be ferociously vicious – and lived.
  2. We have been explicitly told that the methods to cleanse dragon corruption are mostly unknown and those that are known require extensive resources and geographical locations. However, the Pale Tree is, quite clearly, cleansed.
  3. Malyck functions nothing like dragon minions – not even other mordrem. He functions far more akin to Soundless.

My conclusion is that all seeds in that cave – and their guardians – were purified in the distant past. Something we’ll likely have confirmed or debunked in HoT. Thus if Malyck’s tree’s seed came from here… his tree would be purified too.

Without Mordremoth’s active influence, sylvari are left to their own devices in every form.

Oh yes, I forgot, you believe that minions are created like cookies with little magic cookie cutters stamping them into creation. That’s why you couldn’t recognize that Scarlet was working for Mordy, because you claimed “that’s not how minions work”. Devs have stated repeatedly that Mordy controls minions differently.

I’m going to have to ask for a source on that, because I’ve seen nothing either in-game or out to indicate such. HoT’s preview shows that mordrem function just like any other dragon minion in regards to their general shared functions.

Sylvari being so different seems to be a clear fault of Anet trying too hard to make it not obvious that they were dragon minions.

Hell, there are even dozens of differences between mordrem and sylvari – both mentally and physiologically.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about with the whole purification bit. I do know that there were two plant creatures guarding the cave that the seeds were in. Something planted the seeds so that the sylvari would be ready when Mordy woke up. The plant creature guardians would be able to fit that role. Please explain your purification rant.

See above, but where do you get “two” plant creatures? A number was never given.

Scarlet was created in 1320, four years before the Thaumanova Reactor incident. Mordy does indeed employ sleeper agents.

She wasn’t a sleeper agent (see next post). It’s pretty clear from her journal that Mordremoth didn’t take immediate control over Ceara aka Scarlet Briar. When Scarlet finally sucumbed to the visions Mordremoth sent her, it was late 1323. And even during the warmup dialogue to the Prime Hologram (in 1327), she was denying the voice in her head.

Now, if she could fight him off, disconnected from the Dream but having touched his mind, while he slept… why do you think Mordremoth would have full control over Malyck?

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

What about the undead Mesmer that disguised herself as a Charr and framed the PC for murder?
Or is that stretching the meaning of ‘sleeper agent’?

A sleeper agent is someone who acts like a common member of society until a time when they become active.

Labwan – and Scarlet – were not sleepers. They were actively trying to aid their dragon from the beginning. Or in Scarlet’s case, actively trying to aid and hinder Mordremoth.

Do we know for certain that Scarlet caused the meltdown for Mordy? From the fractal it just seems she popped in to get the Inquest research on the lay-lines. I’m not sure about the timeline, but I assume this was before she got into the machine (since the machine was attached to a leyline nexus which she could only find with the Inquest data).

There’s hidden dialogue after you free the Inquest in higher levels which tells us that Scarlet tricked the Inquest head at Thaumanova to push the bounds and that – according to the two operatives – they got into a game of ‘who can push the boundaries further’ until they snapped.

Furthermore, this dialogue indicates that Scarlet lies in her little rant. According to the operatives, she introduced dragon energy, lying to the Inquest and claiming it was chaos magic.

I’m not sure about the timeline, but I assume this was before she got into the machine (since the machine was attached to a leyline nexus which she could only find with the Inquest data).

I’m not sure about the Thaumanova timeline myself, but when she went into the machine it was in Rata Sum- no need for a ley line. The one we found out in Dry Top was presumably either moved or built there later.

It was moved. It’s explicitly stated that she used steam creatures to carry it in pieces from Prosperity to the ley line hub.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

Here’s a couple of tinfoil hat theories you might like. Scarlet wasn’t a servant of Mordremoth and the Sylvari aren’t dragon minions.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

It’s not really tinfoil hat given that Anet went into such effort to make it seem like sylvari weren’t dragon minions – too much, as I’ve already stated in this thread, that they ended up creating such stark differences even between sylvari and mordrem.

And to be fair, I never said Scarlet wasn’t corrupted by Mordremoth, I merely only stated there were other possibilities (which, indeed, there were – they just weren’t the case).

But nice deflecting. You never answered my question that pokes holes in your hypothesis, or asks for clarification.

I’ll bullet point the questions:

  • Can you provide a source for your claim of “Devs have stated repeatedly that Mordy controls minions differently.”?
  • Can you provide a source for your claim of " I do know that there were two plant creatures guarding the cave that the seeds were in." – specifically, the number. The Movement only states that monstrous plant creatures were in the cave.
  • If Scarlet Briar could fight off Mordremoth’s influence when she is disconnected from the Dream and having touched his mind while he slept, why do you think Mordremoth would have full control over Malyck?

And as an added bonus:

  • Why wouldn’t Malyck work to destroying the tree, rather than assisting the Pale Tree, if he was a servant of Mordrem? Why would he go out of his way to save his enemies (the wardens)? Even as a sleeper agent, these actions make no sense if he served Mordremoth.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

One concept I’ve come across in fantasy science fiction is sleeper agents that don’t realise that they’re sleeper agents. Through some magical or technological mind manipulation, they honestly don’t know that they’re a sleeper agent until the agency that planted them sends some sort of signal that ‘activates’ them.

I have a suspicion that the sylvari may have been intended to be basically that. They awaken before Mordremoth in a form that seems innocuous to the rest of the world, allowing them to gather information on that world and possibly get themselves into key places… and then Modremoth awakens, claims them all and their knowledge and positions, and then… bam. Somehow, the Pale Tree was protected against this, and through her many other sylvari, but it does seem as if that might have been Mordy’s plan.

With this being the case, I don’t think Malyck was lying to the PC or in any way aware of Mordremoth. He was, in fact, completely innocent. However, he then traveled towards the Falls, deep in Mordremoth’s territory, without even the residual protection from the Dream that Soundless might retain. Through no real fault of his own, I’d be willing to bet that it will turn out that Malyck became Mordremoth’s as soon as Mordremoth awoke.

Regarding Caithe killing Malyck… I don’t think that happened. Caithe knew that the sylvari were intended to be the minions of Mordremoth, but she wouldn’t necessarily have known that Malyck was a particular danger. Granted, she’s killed once in order to protect the secret… but that was at the request of her ‘victim’ who was about to be tortured for the information. I don’t think it necessarily follows that she would chase down and murder an innocent that doesn’t know the secret.

Here’s a couple of tinfoil hat theories you might like. Scarlet wasn’t a servant of Mordremoth and the Sylvari aren’t dragon minions.

The negative of those “tinfoil hat theories” was a bandwagon jumped on with a serious lack of evidence until Season 2, where most of the evidence that was initially presented to support the theory pre-release got negated by new information immediately post-release leaving a nonexistent support base of evidence that remained popular purely because people liked it.

It happened to turn out to be correct – absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, after all. However, other ideas that have people going about declaring that they are certain have proven not to be so… most recently, for instance, the Herald skills are not in fact a full set of signets.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

Well the problem with the ignorant sleeper agent theory when it comes to Sylvari and Mordy is that it’s a rather specific tactic.
I mean The Great Destroyer was awake before Primordius and was responsible for helping to wake him up. This seems like a reasonable tactic, leave a champion or two behind and have them bring you a proverbial cup of coffee when the time comes.
The problem with the ignorant sleeper agent tactic is that it requires there to a be a fairly organised group of some kind (which the Mordy could not know of since the world changes a lot in the 10,000 year nap that he takes) and that this group would then be willing to allow Sylvari to join them (can’t be a sleeper agent if you can’t infiltrate). If say there is no such group (i.e. there are no kingdoms, nations or empires to appose the EDs) or if such a group is not willing to allow the Sylvari to join them, then basically you just have a bunch of clueless (by design) plant people sitting around doing nothing.
A better tactic would have been to give the Sylvari some knowledge of who and what they are, so that if they were unable to infiltrate possible adversaries then they could do a Great Destroyer and prepare for when Mordy awakens.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Not really. Mordy doesn’t need to plan for some organised group, just the possibility that by the time he awakes, there will be non-minion sapients still around which has already recognised the dragons as a threat. Ignorant sylvari that don’t know, and therefore can’t reveal, their origins would then have the potential to be trusted by said non-minion sapients, and thus might be in a position to do more damage when Mordremoth awakes.

Worst-case scenario: The sylvari get destroyed. No worse off than the Great Destroyer there, and the sylvari do appear to drop with an instinctive ability to defend themselves and the Tree, so while they’re ignorant, they’re not helpless.

Best-case scenario: The Pact Fleet is destroyed. Then the army of converted sylvari sweeps west to Rata Sum and north into Kryta, while sylvari already in those and other locations do as much damage as possible in the locations that they have made their way in to.

The actual result may be somewhere closer to the worst-case scenario for Mordy (he got the Pact fleet destroyed, sure, but his sylvari are resisting and have been fighting for the enemy as well), but I don’t think he considered rebellion a possibility.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.